Off Topic Messages

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:17 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
TCB-FAN wrote:As Oswald proclaimed himself over and over as he was carried away in a police car..."I was a fu**ing Patsy" !!!


It's unclear what Lee Oswald said in the Dallas Police car after being arrested, certainly it is not at all what you put in quotes, but he did tell reporters, when being transferred on the evening of 11-22-1963, that he was needing "legal representation" (which he never got) and that he was "just a patsy."


phpBB [video]


No legal council, no notes taken (or published) from the many hours he was interrogated by Dallas Police, and no protection less than two days later when he was silenced forever in the basement of the Dallas Police department.

Common sense people, use it
.


Almost everyone, it seems, has been heard from on the Kennedy assassination and on Oswald's guilt or innocence, except one person—Oswald himself. From the time of Oswald's arrest to his own assassination at the hands of Ruby, no formal transcript or record was kept of statements made by the alleged killer.

No tape recordings were made of Oswald's remarks, and notes taken of his statements were misplaced or destroyed.

Borrow an excellent quote from you Doc, Common sense people, use it.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:17 pm

EPA4368 wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
TCB-FAN wrote:As Oswald proclaimed himself over and over as he was carried away in a police car..."I was a fu**ing Patsy" !!!


It's unclear what Lee Oswald said in the Dallas Police car after being arrested, certainly it is not at all what you put in quotes, but he did tell reporters, when being transferred on the evening of 11-22-1963, that he was needing "legal representation" (which he never got) and that he was "just a patsy."


phpBB [video]


No legal council, no notes taken (or published) from the many hours he was interrogated by Dallas Police, and no protection less than two days later when he was silenced forever in the basement of the Dallas Police department.

Common sense people, use it
.


Almost everyone, it seems, has been heard from on the Kennedy assassination and on Oswald's guilt or innocence, except one person—Oswald himself. From the time of Oswald's arrest to his own assassination at the hands of Ruby, no formal transcript or record was kept of statements made by the alleged killer.

No tape recordings were made of Oswald's remarks, and notes taken of his statements were misplaced or destroyed.

Borrow an excellent quote from you Doc, Common sense people, use it.


It's really such a sad story. It seems likely Lee Oswald was an insider working to prevent an assassination, while actually being set up to be the fall guy after the murder. Like a good soldier, the 24 year-old kept his cool, waiting for help to arrive, and instead was shot dead to ensure he would not reveal his secrets.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:32 pm

What about the documents that came to light in 1997 concerning Operation Northwoods.

"Operation Northwoods was a series of false flag proposals that originated within the Department of Defense (DoD) and the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) of the United States government in 1962. The proposals, which called for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), or other operatives, to commit perceived acts of terrorism in U.S. cities and elsewhere, were rejected by the Kennedy administration.[2]
At the time of the proposal, Cuba had recently become communist under Fidel Castro. The operation proposed creating public support for a war against Cuba by blaming it for terrorist acts.[3] To this end, Operation Northwoods proposals recommended hijackings and bombings followed by the introduction of phony evidence that would implicate the Cuban government. It stated:
The desired resultant from the execution of this plan would be to place the United States in the apparent position of suffering defensible grievances from a rash and irresponsible government of Cuba and to develop an international image of a Cuban threat to peace in the Western Hemisphere.
Several other proposals were included within Operation Northwoods, including real or simulated actions against various U.S. military and civilian targets. The operation recommended developing a "Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington".
The plan was drafted by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, signed by Chairman Lyman Lemnitzer and sent to the Secretary of Defense. Although part of the U.S. government's Cuban Project anti-communist initiative, Operation Northwoods was never officially accepted; it was authorized by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, but then rejected by President John F. Kennedy. According to currently released documentation, none of the operations became active under the auspices of the Operation Northwoods proposals".


These guys even were in the planning stages of shooting down a chartered aeroplane full of US citizens and blaming it on Cuba in the push for war on Cuba and planning other terrorist activities against US citizens.... Their own bloody government!!

As it states above the Kennedy regime rejected these proposals... That is just one of the many reasons why Kennedy was murdered by a few people who were in collusion and were in senior positions in the US government and other agencies.

There are far too many unanswered questions and indiscrepancies involved in this murder. No-one has answered why witness testimonies were changed to suit, without the knowledge of the particular witness. Most of these witnesses only finding out they were changed within the last 5 years.
Witnesses who heard gunfire and saw smoke coming from a completely different area from where Oswald was apparently located. These testimonies were changed!!

An excellent book I would recommend is the James W Douglass book JFK and the Unspeakable

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:14 pm

I found this clip interesting, as Jesse Ventura, an expert marksman, amongst other marksmen in previous experiments, couldn't recreate Oswald's alleged shooting of JFK, firing three shots from a very cheap gun, within six seconds, which wasn't enough time:

http://www.trutv.com/shows/conspiracy-t ... #autostart

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:58 pm

Mountain Misst wrote:I found this clip interesting, as Jesse Ventura, an expert marksman, amongst other marksmen in previous experiments, couldn't recreate Oswald's alleged shooting of JFK, firing three shots from a very cheap gun, within six seconds, which wasn't enough time:

http://www.trutv.com/shows/conspiracy-t ... #autostart



Yes, that was featured on his show "Conspiracy Theory", and his assessment was quite compelling. I don't think Oswald or anyone could shoot 3 shots accurately in such a short span of time using a cheapo mail-order rifle, and Oswald was not trained marksman to top it off.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:33 am

TCB-FAN wrote:
Mountain Misst wrote:I found this clip interesting, as Jesse Ventura, an expert marksman, amongst other marksmen in previous experiments, couldn't recreate Oswald's alleged shooting of JFK, firing three shots from a very cheap gun, within six seconds, which wasn't enough time:

http://www.trutv.com/shows/conspiracy-t ... #autostart



Yes, that was featured on his show "Conspiracy Theory", and his assessment was quite compelling. I don't think Oswald or anyone could shoot 3 shots accurately in such a short span of time using a cheapo mail-order rifle, and Oswald was not trained marksman to top it off.


I have seen multiple shows that demonstrate the shots could be made. One of them was in a mocked up area of the sixth floor window and the expended cartridges ended up in the same areas as Oswald's.

Actually, Oswald was a marksman:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Harvey_Oswald

Like all Marines, Oswald was trained and tested in shooting and he scored 212 in December 1956, slightly above the requirements for the designation of sharpshooter. In May 1959 he scored 191, which reduced his rating to marksman.

The distance wasn't very far and on the fatal shot, the car was practically stopped.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:03 am

Ack.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:38 pm

In the United States of America, every person is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

Oswald was murdered in police custody long before he had a chance for his day in court.

He is therefore, not guilty.

Any other conclusion is just personal speculation and opinion. His being not guilty is an historical fact. Unless you wish to live in a different type of society.

rjm

Sent From My Phabulous Galaxy Note II Phablet Using Tapatalk 4

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:11 pm

Here's a live video feed of the sniper's perch, facing Elm Street @ Dealey Plaza.


http://www.earthcam.com/usa/texas/dallas/dealeyplaza/

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:47 pm

The essential part of the Commission’s case involved three claims:

All of the shooting came from the easternmost south–facing window on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository.

Lee Harvey Oswald had brought the rifle to work, and was at the sixth floor window with the rifle at the time of the shooting.

It was physically possible for a lone gunman to have caused all the known injuries with only three shots.

Oswald Was on the Sixth Floor During the Shooting?

The first sighting of Oswald after the shooting was by two reliable witnesses, a policeman and the building supervisor, who encountered him on the second floor of the TSBD very shortly after they heard gunshots. The timing of the incident suggests that Oswald was not on the sixth floor during the assassination.

Two problems were pointed out with the Commission’s treatment of the encounter:

The Commission re–enacted the movements of the two witnesses, who had come up from the first floor, and of Oswald, who in theory had come down from the sixth floor after laboriously hiding the rifle. The re–enactments were only able to get Oswald to the second floor in time to meet the witnesses by artificially quickening his descent and slowing their ascent.

The Commission brushed aside evidence from other people within the TSBD who would have seen or heard anyone dashing down the stairs, but who failed to do so.


Oswald Carried the Rifle to Work?

Only three witnesses had seen Oswald prior to and during his arrival at work on 22 November 1963. All three testified that he had not carried a rifle. Buell Wesley Frazier, who had driven Oswald to work, and his sister, Linnie Mae Randle, at whose house Oswald had met Frazier that morning, both claimed that Oswald had been carrying a paper bag, but that the bag was much too short to have held the Mannlicher Carcano rifle that was discovered on the sixth floor of the TSBD. Jack Dougherty, a colleague of Oswald’s who saw him enter the TSBD, was adamant that he did not see anything in Oswald’s hands.

Dallas police officers claimed to have discovered on the sixth floor a paper bag that was long enough to have contained the rifle, but the bag turned out to have had no association with either Oswald or the rifle:

Frazier and Randle were shown this bag. Both claimed that it was several inches longer than the one they had seen.

The bag did not show creases or oil stains consistent with it having held the disassembled rifle.

The bag that was produced in evidence was almost certainly not found at the scene of the crime: the police officers who first came across the alleged sniper’s nest gave confused testimony about whether there was a paper bag nearby, and none of the crime scene photographs showed the bag in situ.

Oswald could not have assembled the bag: although it had been constructed from wrapping paper and tape used at the depository, the bag could only have been assembled at the building’s wrapping table, to which Oswald did not have access.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:43 am

Now I don't know if Oswald shot JFK, I don't.

I do know, that in the available footage, he looks as guilty as sin and as shifty as a shithouse rat, almost cocky.

Now here's the thing, the guys who believe in the conspiracy theory could be right, they could.

But for their own sake, the conspiracy theorists had better hope, that they are right.

Because if they are wrong, they have spent a long time championing a President killer.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:02 am

No worries there a-tall.

Lee Oswald didn't shoot anyone on 11-22-1963.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:12 am

rjm wrote:In the United States of America, every person is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

Oswald was murdered in police custody long before he had a chance for his day in court.

He is therefore, not guilty.

Any other conclusion is just personal speculation and opinion. His being not guilty is an historical fact. Unless you wish to live in a different type of society.

rjm

Sent From My Phabulous Galaxy Note II Phablet Using Tapatalk 4


Correct, he never had his day in court. That doesn't mean he didn't do it.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:27 am

Ack.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:52 am

The sad thing is Oswald did not have his day in court. He did not get a chance to explain to the American people why he called himself a "patsy". Jack Rubenstein made sure of that. As a history buff, I would've loved to hear his explanation, but sadly he took his knowledge to the grave.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:22 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:No worries there a-tall.

Lee Oswald didn't shoot anyone on 11-22-1963.


Ack.

Check out I.A. http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/select-committee-report/

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:31 pm

jak wrote:I heard an interesting story about Ruby on some program that recently aired that I've never heard before.It was told by one of his relatives.Maybe a niece,I just cant recall all the details.Basically she was just giving her opinion that Ruby wasnt part of a conspiracy and he didnt plan on shooting Oswald that day.She said it was a heat of the moment thing and his emotions just took over that day.She came to this conclusion because of Ruby's dogs.She said Ruby had a couple of Daschund's that he adored.He loved those dogs.The dogs were just left alone on the day of the shooting.She said if Ruby knew beforehand he was going to shoot Oswald he would have taken care of the dogs.Knowing he wouldnt make it back home Ruby would not have left his beloved dogs stranded.As the owner of many dogs myself,this is the strongest piece of evidence Ruby wasnt part of a conspiracy.You dog owners know this is true.


This option is continually not considered by people who want to believe there was much more to it. Maybe Oswald didn't like Kennedy so he shot him and Ruby was so upset at losing his President, he shot Oswald.

Why did Hinckley shoot Reagan? Was there a big government cover up with that? Or some huge conspiracy?

Unfortunately in this world, people do horrible things all the time. They just snap.


Randy

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:28 pm

In the years after JFK's assassination, it wasn't insane or irrational to wonder if the truth was being concealed. The 50th anniversary of the assassination of JFK has been accompanied by a lot of soul-searching about the fact that a majority of Americans and millions of people elsewhere believe we still don't know the whole story about the shooting.

The older I get, the more I'm willing to believe in conspiracies, not because I'm suddenly more gullible but because I'm less.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:58 pm

ranskal wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:No worries there a-tall.

Lee Oswald didn't shoot anyone on 11-22-1963.


Ack.

Check out I.A. http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/select-committee-report/


It is sad you are so bereft of knowledge on this subject, and yet remain so resolute in your belief. I used to be like you, until I educated myself. You care enough to post again and again on these topics, take a giant leap and read even one of the recommended books I posted on page 1. You might find that your preconceptions are very, very wrong.

Of course, when you understand the truth of 11-22-1963, then you are stuck with the notion that our most cherished institutions are not legitimate, and that is a whole 'nother can of worms.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:27 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:No worries there a-tall.


Fair enough.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:31 pm

jak wrote:Knowing he wouldnt make it back home Ruby would not have left his beloved dogs stranded.As the owner of many dogs myself,this is the strongest piece of evidence Ruby wasnt part of a conspiracy.You dog owners know this is true.


If accurate, that is compelling evidence.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:17 pm

mike edwards66 wrote:
jak wrote:Knowing he wouldnt make it back home Ruby would not have left his beloved dogs stranded.As the owner of many dogs myself,this is the strongest piece of evidence Ruby wasnt part of a conspiracy.You dog owners know this is true.


If accurate, that is compelling evidence.


There is far more compelling evidence which makes the above seem like poppycock. Which it is.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:18 pm

EPA4368 wrote:In the years after JFK's assassination, it wasn't insane or irrational to wonder if the truth was being concealed. The 50th anniversary of the assassination of JFK has been accompanied by a lot of soul-searching about the fact that a majority of Americans and millions of people elsewhere believe we still don't know the whole story about the shooting.

The older I get, the more I'm willing to believe in conspiracies, not because I'm suddenly more gullible but because I'm less.


Bingo!

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:53 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7vljjHgc3I

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:02 am

jak wrote: I found this guy under my wheelbarrow just before Xmas at 2:30 am.


That must have been the best Xmas present ever ! Hope you adopted him. :)