Off Topic Messages

November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:59 pm

Rare color pic taken by a spectator in the crowd during the Dallas motorcade, minutes before Dealey Plaza.

Image

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:06 pm

Wow, what a fantastic pic. Thanks for sharing........

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:22 pm

KHoots wrote:Wow, what a fantastic pic. Thanks for sharing........



If there's anything we've learned about history, it's that we live a very dangerous world filled with haters.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:27 am

...was their a ballistic test ever done for the bullet that was in officer Tippit to see if it was from Oswald's gun?

JEFF d
EP fan

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:10 am

Great photo!

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:04 pm

Fantastic. Thank you very much. Jack and Jackie-good times never seemed so good....

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:53 pm

JEFF d wrote:...was their a ballistic test ever done for the bullet that was in officer Tippit to see if it was from Oswald's gun?

JEFF d
EP fan


Yes.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:03 pm

JEFF d wrote:...was their a ballistic test ever done for the bullet that was in officer Tippit to see if it was from Oswald's gun?


Oswald didn't shoot anyone on 11-22-1963.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:46 am

Don't be silly.

You know right well he did.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:49 am

You enjoy the myth, I'll stick to the facts.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:10 am

I am sticking with the facts.

Oswald shot Tippet and President Kennedy.

The evidence is conclusive.

There may have been complicity, but the there is no doubt who the shooter was.

Conspiracy theories are the myths.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:38 am

Richard--W wrote:I am sticking with the facts.

Oswald shot Tippet and President Kennedy.

The evidence is conclusive.

There may have been complicity, but the there is no doubt who the shooter was.

Conspiracy theories are the myths.


You do not speak from facts, you are (perhaps unwittingly) perpetuating the lie.

I have zero interest in debating this for the umpteenth time on an Elvis Presley forum but will point out that any question of conspiracy was settled as an official truth by the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) in 1979:

The scientific evidence available to the committee indicated that it is probable that more than one person was involved in the President's murder. That fact compels acceptance. And it demands a re-examination of all that was thought to be true in the past.

Further, the committee's investigation of Oswald and Ruby showed a variety of relationships that may have matured into an assassination conspiracy. Neither Oswald nor Ruby turned out to be "loners," as they had been painted in the 1964 investigation. Nevertheless, the committee frankly acknowledged that it was unable firmly to identify the other gunman or the nature and extent of the conspiracy.

- HSCA Report, p. 180


That the majority of Americans today are unaware that the Congress of the United States declared our president's murder a conspiracy is disturbing. The recommendation was that this conspiracy needed to be investigated and, 34 years later, nothing has been done. This is the death of the President of the United States, not an average citizen. The finding came less than 16 years after he was killed. Yet, nothing.

The obvious reason for burying the report is that further work would uncover all the lies of the Warren Commission, and the dark truth at the heart of the murder of John Kennedy would be exposed. This is just one reason why you never hear about the conspiracy finding in any present-day media reports.

Why was JFK killed? Who might gain from his death? What does it mean today?

Fifty years later, it still matters.

---

Below are some key books which enlighten the reader as to what actually happened in Dallas on 11-22-1963, and what that killing meant for this country.

Rush To Judgment - Mark Lane (Holt, Rinehart & Winston, 1966)
JFK and Vietnam - John M. Newman (Warner Books, 1992)
Deep Politics and the Death of JFK - Peter Dale Scott (University of California Press, 1993)
Bloody Treason - Noel Twyman (Laurel Publishing, 1997)
Murder In Dealy Plaza - James H. Fetzer, Ph.D. (Catfeet Press, 2000)

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:15 pm

Yeah, I know those books. I dismiss a few of them. I also have the HSCA Report. The report is not unknown and it has not been buried. It's in every college library in the United States and in thousands of libraries elsewhere. I worked with the photographic team from the HSCA report on a different photographic identification project. It had nothing to do with the Kennedy assassination, but that was all we talked about. Anyhow ....

Like the Warren investigation, much good came out of the HSCA investigation, and like the Warren investigation, it came to some erroneous conclusions. Sincere but erroneous.

I must side with Bugliosi and Posner.

Lee Harvey Oswald shot the president, and noone else.

Other aspects about the assassination trouble me, but not who the shooter is.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:46 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Richard--W wrote:I am sticking with the facts.

Oswald shot Tippet and President Kennedy.

The evidence is conclusive.

There may have been complicity, but the there is no doubt who the shooter was.

Conspiracy theories are the myths.


You do not speak from facts, you are (perhaps unwittingly) perpetuating the lie.

I have zero interest in debating this for the umpteenth time on an Elvis Presley forum but will point out that any question of conspiracy was settled as an official truth by the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) in 1979:

The scientific evidence available to the committee indicated that it is probable that more than one person was involved in the President's murder. That fact compels acceptance. And it demands a re-examination of all that was thought to be true in the past.

Further, the committee's investigation of Oswald and Ruby showed a variety of relationships that may have matured into an assassination conspiracy. Neither Oswald nor Ruby turned out to be "loners," as they had been painted in the 1964 investigation. Nevertheless, the committee frankly acknowledged that it was unable firmly to identify the other gunman or the nature and extent of the conspiracy.

- HSCA Report, p. 180


That the majority of Americans today are unaware that the Congress of the United States declared our president's murder a conspiracy is disturbing. The recommendation was that this conspiracy needed to be investigated and, 34 years later, nothing has been done. This is the death of the President of the United States, not an average citizen. The finding came less than 16 years after he was killed. Yet, nothing.

The obvious reason for burying the report is that further work would uncover all the lies of the Warren Commission, and the dark truth at the heart of the murder of John Kennedy would be exposed. This is just one reason why you never hear about the conspiracy finding in any present-day media reports.

Why was JFK killed? Who might gain from his death? What does it mean today?

Fifty years later, it still matters.

---

Below are some key books which enlighten the reader as to what actually happened in Dallas on 11-22-1963, and what that killing meant for this country.

Rush To Judgment - Mark Lane (Holt, Rinehart & Winston, 1966)
JFK and Vietnam - John M. Newman (Warner Books, 1992)
Deep Politics and the Death of JFK - Peter Dale Scott (University of California Press, 1993)
Bloody Treason - Noel Twyman (Laurel Publishing, 1997)
Murder In Dealy Plaza - James H. Fetzer, Ph.D. (Catfeet Press, 2000)


Doc, I'm in agreement with you, "Oswald didn't shoot anyone on 11-22-1963."

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:23 pm

Richard--W wrote:I am sticking with the facts.

Oswald shot Tippet and President Kennedy.

The evidence is conclusive.

There may have been complicity, but the there is no doubt who the shooter was.

Conspiracy theories are the myths.

Haveing spent 31 years studing the assassination there was a conspiriacy to kill President Kennedy

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:26 pm

EPA4368 wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Richard--W wrote:I am sticking with the facts.

Oswald shot Tippet and President Kennedy.

The evidence is conclusive.

There may have been complicity, but the there is no doubt who the shooter was.

Conspiracy theories are the myths.


You do not speak from facts, you are (perhaps unwittingly) perpetuating the lie.

I have zero interest in debating this for the umpteenth time on an Elvis Presley forum but will point out that any question of conspiracy was settled as an official truth by the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) in 1979:

The scientific evidence available to the committee indicated that it is probable that more than one person was involved in the President's murder. That fact compels acceptance. And it demands a re-examination of all that was thought to be true in the past.

Further, the committee's investigation of Oswald and Ruby showed a variety of relationships that may have matured into an assassination conspiracy. Neither Oswald nor Ruby turned out to be "loners," as they had been painted in the 1964 investigation. Nevertheless, the committee frankly acknowledged that it was unable firmly to identify the other gunman or the nature and extent of the conspiracy.

- HSCA Report, p. 180


That the majority of Americans today are unaware that the Congress of the United States declared our president's murder a conspiracy is disturbing. The recommendation was that this conspiracy needed to be investigated and, 34 years later, nothing has been done. This is the death of the President of the United States, not an average citizen. The finding came less than 16 years after he was killed. Yet, nothing.

The obvious reason for burying the report is that further work would uncover all the lies of the Warren Commission, and the dark truth at the heart of the murder of John Kennedy would be exposed. This is just one reason why you never hear about the conspiracy finding in any present-day media reports.

Why was JFK killed? Who might gain from his death? What does it mean today?

Fifty years later, it still matters.

---

Below are some key books which enlighten the reader as to what actually happened in Dallas on 11-22-1963, and what that killing meant for this country.

Rush To Judgment - Mark Lane (Holt, Rinehart & Winston, 1966)
JFK and Vietnam - John M. Newman (Warner Books, 1992)
Deep Politics and the Death of JFK - Peter Dale Scott (University of California Press, 1993)
Bloody Treason - Noel Twyman (Laurel Publishing, 1997)
Murder In Dealy Plaza - James H. Fetzer, Ph.D. (Catfeet Press, 2000)


Doc, I'm in agreement with you, "Oswald didn't shoot anyone on 11-22-1963."

I would add Crossfire to that list

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:01 am

Forget Crossfire. The book has been mis-leading people for years. Looking for multiple shooters is an elaborate waste of time, like playing chess. It's been disproven anyhow.

mark wrote:
Richard--W wrote:I am sticking with the facts.

Oswald shot Tippet and President Kennedy.

The evidence is conclusive.

There may have been complicity, but there is no doubt who the shooter was.

Conspiracy theories are the myths.


Having spent 31 years studying the assassination there was a conspiracy to kill President Kennedy


Having spent 40 years studying the assassination and having put in my time at Dealey Plaza, the National Archives and elsewhere, it is clear that only one shooter was needed to do the job. The evidence belies triangulated fire. How the motorcade came to be in the first place, and how Oswald came to seek the job at the Book Repository so that he would be in position when needed, are the real questions. Kennedy And The Unspeakable touches on this but doesn't completely nail it.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:40 am

As Oswald proclaimed himself over and over as he was carried away in a police car..."I was a fu**ing Patsy" !!!

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:45 am

EPA4368 wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Richard--W wrote:I am sticking with the facts.

Oswald shot Tippet and President Kennedy.

The evidence is conclusive.

There may have been complicity, but the there is no doubt who the shooter was.

Conspiracy theories are the myths.


You do not speak from facts, you are (perhaps unwittingly) perpetuating the lie.

I have zero interest in debating this for the umpteenth time on an Elvis Presley forum but will point out that any question of conspiracy was settled as an official truth by the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) in 1979:

The scientific evidence available to the committee indicated that it is probable that more than one person was involved in the President's murder. That fact compels acceptance. And it demands a re-examination of all that was thought to be true in the past.

Further, the committee's investigation of Oswald and Ruby showed a variety of relationships that may have matured into an assassination conspiracy. Neither Oswald nor Ruby turned out to be "loners," as they had been painted in the 1964 investigation. Nevertheless, the committee frankly acknowledged that it was unable firmly to identify the other gunman or the nature and extent of the conspiracy.

- HSCA Report, p. 180


That the majority of Americans today are unaware that the Congress of the United States declared our president's murder a conspiracy is disturbing. The recommendation was that this conspiracy needed to be investigated and, 34 years later, nothing has been done. This is the death of the President of the United States, not an average citizen. The finding came less than 16 years after he was killed. Yet, nothing.

The obvious reason for burying the report is that further work would uncover all the lies of the Warren Commission, and the dark truth at the heart of the murder of John Kennedy would be exposed. This is just one reason why you never hear about the conspiracy finding in any present-day media reports.

Why was JFK killed? Who might gain from his death? What does it mean today?

Fifty years later, it still matters.

---

Below are some key books which enlighten the reader as to what actually happened in Dallas on 11-22-1963, and what that killing meant for this country.

Rush To Judgment - Mark Lane (Holt, Rinehart & Winston, 1966)
JFK and Vietnam - John M. Newman (Warner Books, 1992)
Deep Politics and the Death of JFK - Peter Dale Scott (University of California Press, 1993)
Bloody Treason - Noel Twyman (Laurel Publishing, 1997)
Murder In Dealy Plaza - James H. Fetzer, Ph.D. (Catfeet Press, 2000)


Doc, I'm in agreement with you, "Oswald didn't shoot anyone on 11-22-1963."


Thanks. Anyone with an open mind, and an ability to distinguish fact from fantasy, comes away with that very conclusion.

But, as may be seen even on this topic, the power of the lie is still very, very strong, even 50 years since the coup d'├ętat in Dallas. America has not been the same since, save that those in power remain basically the same people, with the same mindset. It's sad.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:55 am

TCB-FAN wrote:As Oswald proclaimed himself over and over as he was carried away in a police car..."I was a fu**ing Patsy" !!!


It's unclear what Lee Oswald said in the Dallas Police car after being arrested, certainly it is not at all what you put in quotes, but he did tell reporters, when being transferred on the evening of 11-22-1963, that he was needing "legal representation" (which he never got) and that he was "just a patsy."


phpBB [video]


No legal council, no notes taken (or published) from the many hours he was interrogated by Dallas Police, and no protection less than two days later when he was silenced forever in the basement of the Dallas Police department.

Common sense people, use it.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:16 am

The same evidence the doc is using to support his claim contradicts his other. He says Oswald didn't shoot anyone on 11-22-1963, and yet the House Committee says Oswald shot and killed President Kennedy. As for a conspiracy, they said it is highly probable a second shooter was present which was based on audio evidence that has since been discredited.

The unanswered question is why did Oswald shoot the President.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:28 am

ranskal wrote:The same evidence the doc is using to support his claim contradicts his other. He says Oswald didn't shoot anyone on 11-22-1963, and yet the House Committee says Oswald shot and killed President Kennedy. As for a conspiracy, they said it is highly probable a second shooter was present which was based on audio evidence that has since been discredited.

The unanswered question is why did Oswald shoot the President.


And so the lie continues. Do not read even one of the books I suggest. Shut off your common sense. Keep that mind closed.

The point of the HSAC Report is the U.S. government confirming the killing of our President was a conspiracy. Period.

A further, unbiased investigation would have exonerated Lee Oswald. Beyond that, the findings have not been discredited.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:03 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
ranskal wrote:The same evidence the doc is using to support his claim contradicts his other. He says Oswald didn't shoot anyone on 11-22-1963, and yet the House Committee says Oswald shot and killed President Kennedy. As for a conspiracy, they said it is highly probable a second shooter was present which was based on audio evidence that has since been discredited.

The unanswered question is why did Oswald shoot the President.


And so the lie continues. Do not read even one of the books I suggest. Shut off your common sense. Keep that mind closed.

The point of the HSAC Report is the U.S. government confirming the killing of our President was a conspiracy. Period.

A further, unbiased investigation would have exonerated Lee Oswald. Beyond that, the findings have not been discredited.

I don't have a closed mind regarding this unfortunate event. I grew up hearing about the grassy knoll and the fatal shot coming from the front. After what I've read and seen, and my personal experiences in Dallas, I believe Oswald was the lone gunman that killed the President. The evidence supports it.

If Oswald killing the President is the lie, then what is the truth? Please don't reply with read this book or read that book. What factual evidence eliminates Oswald from firing the rifle that hit the President?

As for the HSCA report, they concluded that Oswald killed the President. I'm not sure how you can try to deny that when it clearly states that.

The question is why, which we will probably never know.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:34 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
TCB-FAN wrote:Common sense people, use it.


drjohncarpenter wrote:
ranskal wrote:The point of the HSAC Report is the U.S. government confirming the killing of our President was a conspiracy. Period.

A further, unbiased investigation would have exonerated Lee Oswald. Beyond that, the findings have not been discredited.


A further, unbiased investigation would have convicted Lee Harvey Oswald and discredited conspiracy theories.

History, like crime scene, is reconstructed from primary evidence into a factual narrative of circumstances, events, and insofar as is possible, states of mind.

Here are 1,648 pages of common sense, of primary evidence constructed into a factual narrative:

http://www.amazon.com/Reclaiming-Histor ... 1389513730

written by an expert with no agenda and no delusions.

Re: November 22, 1963 (Rare Photo)

Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:24 pm

I bet there are a lot of folks who could be convinced that Lee Harvey Oswald was not even in Dallas on 11-22-63.

Why is it that to disagree means a person has a "closed mind." Everyone has an opinion about what happened. Maybe it's correct, maybe not. Who knows for sure? But to continually ride people because of what they believe--just because that opinion is counter to yours--is sophomoric.

I think it's pretty clear Lee Harvey Oswald pulled the trigger of a gun(s) that day, but can I say that is definitive? No.