Off Topic Messages

Re: Most believe Lee Harvey Oswald was 'patsy'

Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:03 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
eligain wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Justin wrote:PBS' Nova devoted an hour to the assasination. Impressive attempt to prove the original findings using science and 3D lasers and other experiments. I found it amusing that they got a ballistics expert to explain how JFK threw his head back during that final shot. You'd think they'd get someone with a medical background to explain that...not a gun expert. They use official autopsy photographs as references even though a few of them are so very clearly false. One of them looks like a drawing--not a photograph.

You can watch it here:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/tech/cold-case-jfk.html


Despite a rich and rewarding programming history, PBS' Nova is unfortunately playing the game. They behaved in similar fashion in their "scientific" analysis of how the twin towers "collapsed" in 2001. You gotta keep promoting the lie!


This is where people like you lose me. "Scientific" analysis has proven that all three shots could have come from the 6th floor window of the book depository. The "magic" bullet has been successfully replicated almost exactly. The way that Kennedy and Connally were seated in the limo show they were lined up for the bullet to pass through them with way it was first postulated and that it didn't need to perform the acrobatics shown in Oliver Stone's movie to do what it did. Scientific analysis has show the head shot came from behind. The "back and to the left" movement was most likely the neuromuscular reaction of the destruction of his brain plus the jet effect of the brain and blood matter shooting out of top side of his head. Yet when someone uses new and current computer and scientific analysis to prove these things are possible, you discredit them and say they are part of the lie.

I don't understand how if all the shots came from the book depository, that proves there was no conspiracy. All it proves is that the shots came from there, not who shot them or why it happened. Even Lee Harvey Oswald firing all the shots doesn't disprove a conspiracy or answer why or who was behind it.

So as we move forward, scientific and computer analysis will keep getting better and more accurate. It may even move the other way and prove the shots didn't come from the book depository but if it does keep showing even more conclusively that they did, will you keep saying they are just perpetuating the lie?


Here's a clue for you: almost everything in your long-winded post is false. ;-)


Exactly how is it false? Don't just say it, explain it. BTW, what I wrote is long winded? This is another point where you lose me and where you lose me on most of your Elvis posts; your arrogant, insulting attitude. You never fail to live up to your reputation.

Re: Most believe Lee Harvey Oswald was 'patsy'

Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:11 am

jak wrote:Read this:
3. The Head Shot & The Zapruder Film

One of the biggest sacred cows of the research community is Kennedy's backward head-snap starting in frame 313 of the Zapruder film. How could Kennedy's head go backwards if he was shot from behind? Well, analysis by Luis Alvarez, a Nobel-prize winning physicist, shows that the mass excreted from a head shot can propel the head backward -- "the jet [of brain matter] can carry forward more momentum than was brought in by the bullet and the head recoils backwards, just as a rocket recoils when its jet fuel is ejected."[30] Alvarez concludes that "the law of physics are more in accordance with the conclusions of the Warren Commission than they are with the ones of the critics." [31] Yet, the critics still argue the case for a shot from the front. Groden publishes frame 313 of the Zapruder film with the following caption, "The fatal head shot, coming from in front of the President's car, rapidly pushes his head and body rearward and to the left." [32] Nowhere in his book does he discuss Alvarez's conclusions. Of course, the backwards head-snap did not bother any of the forensic pathologists on the House Assassinations Committee. The forensic pathology panel said that the majority of the panel believes that there is a possibility that this movement may have been caused by neurologic response to the massive brain damage caused by the bullet, or by a propulsive effect resulting from the matter that exited through the large defect under great pressure, or a combination of both. Whatever the cause of the President's movement, the majority of the panel concludes that only one bullet struck the President's head and that entered at the rear and exited from the right front. [33]
Further, the autopsy x-rays and photographs show that the back of Kennedy's head was intact with a large gaping exit wound in the right parietal area of the head. This is consistent with a shot from the rear. And, if you watch the Zapruder film, you will notice that the back of Kennedy's head does remain intact and that there is a rather noticeable exit wound exactly where the autopsy materials show it to be. [34] The Moorman photograph, taken seconds after Kennedy was hit in the head, also shows the back of his head to be totally intact. [35] Thus, the photographic evidence is consistent with the autopsy materials -- all of which support a shot fired from behind Kennedy. This has led some critics to claim that the Zapruder film was doctored by the CIA at the NPIC right after the assassination (see Section 4). Of course, if the film was doctored, why not also change the head-snap?


Something I found:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/headwnd.htm

Re: Most believe Lee Harvey Oswald was 'patsy'

Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:32 am

mark wrote:
ranskal wrote:Are you saying that people that don't believe in the multiple gunman fantasy are dumb? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion whether you agree with it or not, why can't you respect that?

The Dallas police said Oswald killed the President, the Warren Commission said Oswald killed the President, and the House Select Committee on Assassinations said Oswald killed him.

His motive is what is still in question and we will probably never know why he did it.


Also House Select Committee on Assassinations said there were two shooters.


The HSCA said based on acoustical evidence, there was a high probability that a second gunman fired at Kennedy. This was in regard to the sound that was picked up on an open mike by one of the police officers. That has since been discredited.

Re: Most believe Lee Harvey Oswald was 'patsy'

Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:56 am

phpBB [video]

Re: Most believe Lee Harvey Oswald was 'patsy'

Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:58 pm

Elvis-nerds are in NO position to judge other geeks.

This was about as funny as a crutch.

rjm

Sent From My Phabulous Galaxy Note II Phablet Using Tapatalk 4

Re: Most believe Lee Harvey Oswald was 'patsy'

Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:10 pm

"Something I found:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/headwnd.htm"

That's why you want the opinion of a ballistic expert. As I said previously,they have real life experience using the ammunition. They are actually firing into living targets and gelatins that simulate flesh. You dont do that in med school. There is no substitute for real life experience. That's the reason PBS used a ballistic expert to analyze the film of the shot's impact. The fact that the evidence shows the bullet came from the rear doesnt fit into the conspiracy theories. Thus it is deemed not credible or just plain false by those who cling to their conspiracy theory. I gotta admit the conspiracy stuff does make a good story. Much more interesting than the truth which is rather mundane.

Re: Most believe Lee Harvey Oswald was 'patsy'

Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:24 pm

And experts all agree, in real coutrooms? Really? Seriously?

The truth? The truth is that NO ONE was ever convicted of this crime!

That is not a "theory." That is history. The idea that the a briefly accused dead man did it IS a theory, never adjudicated in court.

That is the only historical truth.

rjm

Sent From My Phabulous Galaxy Note II Phablet Using Tapatalk 4

Re: Most believe Lee Harvey Oswald was 'patsy'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:12 pm

rjm wrote:And experts all agree, in real coutrooms? Really? Seriously?

The truth? The truth is that NO ONE was ever convicted of this crime!

That is not a "theory." That is history. The idea that the a briefly accused dead man did it IS a theory, never adjudicated in court.

That is the only historical truth.



Thank you.

Re: Most believe Lee Harvey Oswald was 'patsy'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:38 pm

rjm wrote:The idea that the a briefly accused dead man did it IS a theory


As is the idea that he didn't.

Re: Most believe Lee Harvey Oswald was 'patsy'

Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:05 pm

mike edwards66 wrote:
rjm wrote:The idea that the a briefly accused dead man did it IS a theory


As is the idea that he didn't.


Knowledge is power:
http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=80145&p=1250042#p1250042

Get readin'!

Re: Most believe Lee Harvey Oswald was 'patsy'

Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:58 am

Here's the absolute truth.....The American people will NEVER know who ACTUALLY fired those shots at President Kennedy in Dealey Plaza in Dallas, Texas @ 12:30 PM CST on November 22, 1963. You can take that to the bank. The JFK Assassination, I'm afraid will forever be shrouded in mystery as to 'who dunnit' and why. There is just not enough conclusive and absolute evidence to justify that.

Re: Most believe Lee Harvey Oswald was 'patsy'

Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:38 pm

About the ballistic experts: I wrote here before on this matter, but I post again: how Oswald shot JFK in 6 seconds with a damaged telescope and an old rifle and three professional shooters couldn't reach the target after the assasiantion even after they repaired the telescope?!?

Re: Most believe Lee Harvey Oswald was 'patsy'

Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:09 am

TCB-FAN wrote:Here's the absolute truth.....The American people will NEVER know who ACTUALLY fired those shots at President Kennedy in Dealey Plaza in Dallas, Texas @ 12:30 PM CST on November 22, 1963. You can take that to the bank. The JFK Assassination, I'm afraid will forever be shrouded in mystery as to 'who dunnit' and why. There is just not enough conclusive and absolute evidence to justify that.


I guess you can leave the topic now. Thanks!

Re: Most believe Lee Harvey Oswald was 'patsy'

Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:10 am

jurasic1968 wrote:About the ballistic experts: I wrote here before on this matter, but I post again: how Oswald shot JFK in 6 seconds with a damaged telescope and an old rifle and three professional shooters couldn't reach the target after the assasiantion even after they repaired the telescope?!?


These are parlor games, and exist solely to distract from the real questions that every good citizen should ask.

Re: Most believe Lee Harvey Oswald was 'patsy'

Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:13 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
TCB-FAN wrote:Here's the absolute truth.....The American people will NEVER know who ACTUALLY fired those shots at President Kennedy in Dealey Plaza in Dallas, Texas @ 12:30 PM CST on November 22, 1963. You can take that to the bank. The JFK Assassination, I'm afraid will forever be shrouded in mystery as to 'who dunnit' and why. There is just not enough conclusive and absolute evidence to justify that.


I guess you can leave the topic now. Thanks!



Wouldn't this be the situation, though, Doc? I don't understand why you aren't being inclusive.

This topic interests me.

Re: Most believe Lee Harvey Oswald was 'patsy'

Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:23 am

Mountain Misst wrote:Wouldn't this be the situation, though, Doc? I don't understand why you aren't being inclusive.

This topic interests me.


Check my reading list, pick up some of choices, invest some time in what they report, and draw your own conclusion.

Re: Most believe Lee Harvey Oswald was 'patsy'

Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:35 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
TCB-FAN wrote:Here's the absolute truth.....The American people will NEVER know who ACTUALLY fired those shots at President Kennedy in Dealey Plaza in Dallas, Texas @ 12:30 PM CST on November 22, 1963. You can take that to the bank. The JFK Assassination, I'm afraid will forever be shrouded in mystery as to 'who dunnit' and why. There is just not enough conclusive and absolute evidence to justify that.


I guess you can leave the topic now. Thanks!



How about I leave the FECC all together ? I'm sure you'd like that a lot. Thanks to your wisecracks & agenda based bias over the past few months, I've seriously considered it several times.

Re: Most believe Lee Harvey Oswald was 'patsy'

Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:03 am

TCB-FAN wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
TCB-FAN wrote:Here's the absolute truth.....The American people will NEVER know who ACTUALLY fired those shots at President Kennedy in Dealey Plaza in Dallas, Texas @ 12:30 PM CST on November 22, 1963. You can take that to the bank. The JFK Assassination, I'm afraid will forever be shrouded in mystery as to 'who dunnit' and why. There is just not enough conclusive and absolute evidence to justify that.


I guess you can leave the topic now. Thanks!



How about I leave the FECC all together ? I'm sure you'd like that a lot. Thanks to your wisecracks & agenda based bias over the past few months, I've seriously considered it several times.


Whatever you choose to do or not do is up to you.

All I suggest is that, with your post of "absolute truth," you have clearly reached the limits of what you can contribute to this particular topic.

But, hey, prove us wrong. ;-)

Re: Most believe Lee Harvey Oswald was 'patsy'

Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:33 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Mountain Misst wrote:Wouldn't this be the situation, though, Doc? I don't understand why you aren't being inclusive.

This topic interests me.


Check my reading list, pick up some of choices, invest some time in what they report, and draw your own conclusion.


This is a public forum, and inclusiveness is needed. This makes me sad that people feel that they have to leave for giving an opinion which most people would agree with anyway.

Re: Most believe Lee Harvey Oswald was 'patsy'

Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:38 am

TCB-FAN wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
TCB-FAN wrote:Here's the absolute truth.....The American people will NEVER know who ACTUALLY fired those shots at President Kennedy in Dealey Plaza in Dallas, Texas @ 12:30 PM CST on November 22, 1963. You can take that to the bank. The JFK Assassination, I'm afraid will forever be shrouded in mystery as to 'who dunnit' and why. There is just not enough conclusive and absolute evidence to justify that.


I guess you can leave the topic now. Thanks!



How about I leave the FECC all together ? I'm sure you'd like that a lot. Thanks to your wisecracks & agenda based bias over the past few months, I've seriously considered it several times.


If you think someone "would like that a lot" then why would you do it?

I learned to be tougher since I've been here, than I have ever been in my life. And to know which battles are worth it. And how to "battle" without "losing it," which is something I value that I never could do before.

I used to get very pouty, but I have changed. If you believe something, stick up for it! That doesn't mean some folks couldn't stand to rephrase what they meant sometimes. (And you'll notice that *is* what happened. Not everyone expresses themselves the same way.)

Do not leave. I mean, that's my advice.

rjm

Sent From My Phabulous Galaxy Note II Phablet Using Tapatalk 4

Re: Most believe Lee Harvey Oswald was 'patsy'

Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:53 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
TCB-FAN wrote:Here's the absolute truth.....The American people will NEVER know who ACTUALLY fired those shots at President Kennedy in Dealey Plaza in Dallas, Texas @ 12:30 PM CST on November 22, 1963. You can take that to the bank. The JFK Assassination, I'm afraid will forever be shrouded in mystery as to 'who dunnit' and why. There is just not enough conclusive and absolute evidence to justify that.


I guess you can leave the topic now. Thanks!


I would answer it differently, and I think the answer would be closer to your point, John.

I would say that knowledge of "who fired the shots" is a distraction from the more significant issues. It's not about a "whodunit." It's a "whydidit?" It's not the "who" so much as the "why." In the end, that's what matters -- to the future.

Jackie Kennedy, early on, had commented that she wished, at least, he gave his life for a purpose, and not just "some silly little communist." Well, he may have been little, but there was nothing silly about those with whom he got involved, and they sure weren't "communists." Quite the opposite. (That can be proven, from the New Orleans incident leaflets.)

So, the task is to find that purpose for which he died. (But, yes, it is necessary to rule out "the impossible," in Holmesian fashion.)

And that's how I would answer the post.

I think a more detailed definition of what is meant by "parlor games" would clear up much misunderstanding - and perhaps bruised feelings. (I take it that your main point is that the whole "whodunit" is a distraction. Is that correct?)

So, in a way, TCB-FAN is on to something: if indeed we'll likely never find out who fired the fatal shot, then that is not what ought to be investigated. But that unlikely condition does NOT mean the end of investigation, but that it must take a different course. (Which is explored well in several of the cited books.)

@drjohncarpenter

@TCB-FAN

:)

rjm

Sent From My Phabulous Galaxy Note II Phablet Using Tapatalk 4

Re: Most believe Lee Harvey Oswald was 'patsy'

Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:50 pm

Do not leave. I mean, that's my advice.

rjm



Me, too. :D

Re: Most believe Lee Harvey Oswald was 'patsy'

Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:26 pm

To me, it's clear that the communists (Cuban or USSR) had nothing in common with the crime. In 1963 JFK and Nikita Khrushchev from the USSR signed a treaty regarding the nuclear weapons and agreed on many other problems. So, how stupid could they had been to be involved in murdering the president of the US????

Re: Most believe Lee Harvey Oswald was 'patsy'

Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:59 pm

rjm wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
TCB-FAN wrote:Here's the absolute truth.....The American people will NEVER know who ACTUALLY fired those shots at President Kennedy in Dealey Plaza in Dallas, Texas @ 12:30 PM CST on November 22, 1963. You can take that to the bank. The JFK Assassination, I'm afraid will forever be shrouded in mystery as to 'who dunnit' and why. There is just not enough conclusive and absolute evidence to justify that.


I guess you can leave the topic now. Thanks!


I would answer it differently, and I think the answer would be closer to your point, John.


You are of course welcome to respond in any way you please, but if you revisit this topic from top-to-bottom, you might just see someone with more interest in distracting with odd videos and uninformed cant. To then serve up a steaming, fetid pile of condescension, with ALL CAPS and bold face print, tells me they have exhausted the patience of any reasonably intelligent person, proven they have no interest in embracing other ideas, and need to return to other site endeavors, such as posting miscaptioned photos.

Re: Most believe Lee Harvey Oswald was 'patsy'

Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:35 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
someone with more interest in distracting with odd videos and uninformed cant.


To then serve up a steaming, fetid pile of condescension, with ALL CAPS and bold face print,


they have exhausted the patience of any reasonably intelligent person,


proven they have no interest in embracing other ideas,


and need to return to other site endeavors, such as posting miscaptioned photos.




Anything else you would like to add to all of the "nice" things you've said about me so far ???

I also have an extensive "compliment" list about you Doc, but if I were to list them, not only would I be banned permanently from this group, I would be arrested, charged and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law....soooooo, I'll just take the high road and keep my compliments to myself. TYVM.

As the old adage goes ...."Give 'em enough rope....."
Keep the compliments coming Doc........ :smt023
Last edited by TCB-FAN on Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.