Off Topic Messages

Re: Elvis' Pianist Tony Brown Arrested On Domestic Charges

Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:16 pm

What do you expect from a true blue under the radar Beatles fan.

Re: Elvis' Pianist Tony Brown Arrested On Domestic Charges

Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:35 pm

In "Elvis, What Happened" Steve Dunleavy wrote that Elvis hit a girl's breast with a billiard cue in the early 60's, a story remembered by Sonny West.

Re: Elvis' Pianist Tony Brown Arrested On Domestic Charges

Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:50 pm

All speculation.

Re: Elvis' Pianist Tony Brown Arrested On Domestic Charges

Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:37 pm

Sure we discuss Elvis violence. Elvis shooting televisions, shooting thru walls almost hitting someone, hitting a girl with a pool cue. All of that stuff has been discussed here before, not that we need to now, but yes it has been discussed in the past. It's a sad thing, but this stuff is part of life unfortunately.

Re: Elvis' Pianist Tony Brown Arrested On Domestic Charges

Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:24 pm

mysterytrainrideson wrote:This thread should be on the "off topic" section or better still...deleted.


+1

Re: Elvis' Pianist Tony Brown Arrested On Domestic Charges

Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:36 pm

Doc - you have implied Elvis was guilty of beating up a girifriend / partner. Please can you elaborate with specific examples / dates etc?

Well...he should not be going around beating up on women. Anyone who does that, is fair game in my book.

Guess that includes your hero, Elvis.


After all, Elvis had his share of violent issues in the 1970s, but we don't devote topics to them, do we?


Again, while we're aware of often empty theats / rages etc, and an unfortunate incident with a drunk Charlie Hodge, which incidents of Elvis actually inflicting voilence are you referring to?
Last edited by DarrylMac on Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Elvis' Pianist Tony Brown Arrested On Domestic Charges

Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:49 pm

He can't....just hearsay. Most of the negative things said about Elvis was after he had died or when the 100% truthful "sarcasm" Elvis what happened was released. Lets see those arrest records doc.

Re: Elvis' Pianist Tony Brown Arrested On Domestic Charges

Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:08 am

DarrylMac wrote:Doc - you have implied Elvis was guilty of beating up a girifriend / partner. Please can you elaborate with specific examples / dates etc?

Well...he should not be going around beating up on women. Anyone who does that, is fair game in my book.

Guess that includes your hero, Elvis.


Code:
After all, Elvis had his share of violent issues in the 1970s, but we don't devote topics to them, do we?


Again, while we're aware of often empty theats / rages etc, and an unfortunate incident with a drunk Charlie Hodge, which incidents of Elvis actually inflicting voilence are you referring to?


Not only are you less well-read on Elvis Presley than I ever suspected, but even the quote function on this forum, unchanged in the ten years you have been a member, is beyond your capabilities.

Re: Elvis' Pianist Tony Brown Arrested On Domestic Charges

Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:27 am

Apologies - I pressed the code button rather than the quote button - an innocent mistake. Any need for a personal attack / insult?

My question was a genuine one - you are the one who brought up Elvis being voilent and accused him of domestic violence towards a woman, or women. I've read many books on Elvis, and I'm afraid I'm unsure of the specific events you're referring to. You are the one who brought it up, without quoting specifics, and I'm asking for you to elaborate? So many of your posts to others mention "evidence" - where is yours on this point?

This thread should be on the "off topic" section or better still...deleted.


Actually, the Doc brought it On Topic with his comments about Elvis.

Re: Elvis' Pianist Tony Brown Arrested On Domestic Charges

Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:55 am

jurasic1968 wrote:In "Elvis, What Happened" Steve Dunleavy wrote that Elvis hit a girl's breast with a billiard cue in the early 60's, a story remembered by Sonny West.
Oh well if Sonny said it,it must be true.

Re: Elvis' Pianist Tony Brown Arrested On Domestic Charges

Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:25 am

Disappointing if allegations against Tony Brown are true, disappointing that this thread degenerating into a let's-knock-Elvis saga.

Re: Elvis' Pianist Tony Brown Arrested On Domestic Charges

Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:43 am

Best to wait for further information before the complete character assassination.

Re: Elvis' Pianist Tony Brown Arrested On Domestic Charges

Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:53 am

Fairchild1171 wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Fairchild1171 wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:This all seems a bit exploitative, and the pot shots in reply are a little cold. After all, Elvis had his share of violent issues in the 1970s, but we don't devote topics to them, do we?



Well...he should not be going around beating up on women. Anyone who does that, is fair game in my book.


Guess that includes your hero, Elvis. Get started on a topic from your ... "book."



Elvis was never charged with beating up a woman...there may have been those who said that he did, including Priscilla...but in the end it's her word against his...which is a moot point since he is dead. All these rumors that you have "googled" or have heard...please present me with just the facts...not a bunch of he said she said bull.


Well, she didn't say that he "beat her up." Aside from the pillow fight that got a little rough that was misunderstood by others (she said that it wasn't intentional that a corner hit her in the eye, I believe), the only thing he did regarding her was his inappropriate conduct the night he was dumped. Still, she didn't call it by the four-letter word used in the film, and I believe she objected to that word being used. I would indeed call it that, though. That's what it was. It was the only truly reprehensible thing I think he ever did; the only thing that makes me ashamed. I hope he felt ashamed after it. That's all I can say: I hope he felt ashamed for losing his mind and doing something that was genuinely out-of-character. You can't excuse it by saying he was probably loaded; there are no excuses. He should have owned up to it more overtly, and really made it up to her, and I don't know if he did that or not. Priscilla put it in a book that Lisa read. Seems like Lisa forgave him, and I think Priscilla did, too. There were no laws regarding the manner in which intimate relations in marriage crossed the line in 1972; it would be about 5 years later, after his death, that the laws would begin to change.

It was a terrible thing, and I wish he didn't do it, but he did. As I said, I sure hope he regretted it as much as some of his fans regret that he did it.

As for other women, in EWH, they said "that wasn't his style" (when they heard Scatter in the bedroom making a girl scream in terror) - that he didn't hit women, period, but there were a couple of incidents where he acted out of line. Where it would have been wrong if it were either gender. But it's worse if it's a woman, because in one case, there was nothing she could do. Being a woman, she couldn't stop him from dragging her. A man might have fought back and kicked his butt.

One was when he threw the pool cue at a guy's date, and it hit her in the chest. He didn't "beat her up," but she got hurt from what he threw at her. She got bruised badly. (In the Presley family, they tended to throw stuff when they got mad. Hence Dodger's nickname, because stuff was flying around. Even as a child, he apparently threw a baseball at somebody, and Dodger dodged it.)

The other was Christina Crawford. She threw water in his face, and he responded by dragging her by the hair to the door and threw her out, by the hair, apparently. I guess that qualifies as "beating up" but it's not domestic violence. They weren't dating, and he wasn't threatening her: he was throwing her out of the house. It's . . . I don't know what you call it. But it was wrong.

rjm

Re: Elvis' Pianist Tony Brown Arrested On Domestic Charges

Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:12 am

rjm wrote:
Fairchild1171 wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Fairchild1171 wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:This all seems a bit exploitative, and the pot shots in reply are a little cold. After all, Elvis had his share of violent issues in the 1970s, but we don't devote topics to them, do we?



Well...he should not be going around beating up on women. Anyone who does that, is fair game in my book.


Guess that includes your hero, Elvis. Get started on a topic from your ... "book."



Elvis was never charged with beating up a woman...there may have been those who said that he did, including Priscilla...but in the end it's her word against his...which is a moot point since he is dead. All these rumors that you have "googled" or have heard...please present me with just the facts...not a bunch of he said she said bull.


Well, she didn't say that he "beat her up." Aside from the pillow fight that got a little rough that was misunderstood by others (she said that it wasn't intentional that a corner hit her in the eye, I believe), the only thing he did regarding her was his inappropriate conduct the night he was dumped. Still, she didn't call it by the four-letter word used in the film, and I believe she objected to that word being used. I would indeed call it that, though. That's what it was. It was the only truly reprehensible thing I think he ever did; the only thing that makes me ashamed. I hope he felt ashamed after it. That's all I can say: I hope he felt ashamed for losing his mind and doing something that was genuinely out-of-character. You can't excuse it by saying he was probably loaded; there are no excuses. He should have owned up to it more overtly, and really made it up to her, and I don't know if he did that or not. Priscilla put it in a book that Lisa read. Seems like Lisa forgave him, and I think Priscilla did, too. There were no laws regarding the manner in which intimate relations in marriage crossed the line in 1972; it would be about 5 years later, after his death, that the laws would begin to change.

It was a terrible thing, and I wish he didn't do it, but he did. As I said, I sure hope he regretted it as much as some of his fans regret that he did it.

As for other women, in EWH, they said "that wasn't his style" (when they heard Scatter in the bedroom making a girl scream in terror) - that he didn't hit women, period, but there were a couple of incidents where he acted out of line. Where it would have been wrong if it were either gender. But it's worse if it's a woman, because in one case, there was nothing she could do. Being a woman, she couldn't stop him from dragging her. A man might have fought back and kicked his butt.

One was when he threw the pool cue at a guy's date, and it hit her in the chest. He didn't "beat her up," but she got hurt from what he threw at her. She got bruised badly. (In the Presley family, they tended to throw stuff when they got mad. Hence Dodger's nickname, because stuff was flying around. Even as a child, he apparently threw a baseball at somebody, and Dodger dodged it.)

The other was Christina Crawford. She threw water in his face, and he responded by dragging her by the hair to the door and threw her out, by the hair, apparently. I guess that qualifies as "beating up" but it's not domestic violence. They weren't dating, and he wasn't threatening her: he was throwing her out of the house. It's . . . I don't know what you call it. But it was wrong.

rjm




Very sad things, but after doing these, I am sure he felt very sorry .

Re: Elvis' Pianist Tony Brown Arrested On Domestic Charges

Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:40 am

jurasic1968 wrote:
rjm wrote:
Fairchild1171 wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Fairchild1171 wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:This all seems a bit exploitative, and the pot shots in reply are a little cold. After all, Elvis had his share of violent issues in the 1970s, but we don't devote topics to them, do we?



Well...he should not be going around beating up on women. Anyone who does that, is fair game in my book.


Guess that includes your hero, Elvis. Get started on a topic from your ... "book."



Elvis was never charged with beating up a woman...there may have been those who said that he did, including Priscilla...but in the end it's her word against his...which is a moot point since he is dead. All these rumors that you have "googled" or have heard...please present me with just the facts...not a bunch of he said she said bull.


Well, she didn't say that he "beat her up." Aside from the pillow fight that got a little rough that was misunderstood by others (she said that it wasn't intentional that a corner hit her in the eye, I believe), the only thing he did regarding her was his inappropriate conduct the night he was dumped. Still, she didn't call it by the four-letter word used in the film, and I believe she objected to that word being used. I would indeed call it that, though. That's what it was. It was the only truly reprehensible thing I think he ever did; the only thing that makes me ashamed. I hope he felt ashamed after it. That's all I can say: I hope he felt ashamed for losing his mind and doing something that was genuinely out-of-character. You can't excuse it by saying he was probably loaded; there are no excuses. He should have owned up to it more overtly, and really made it up to her, and I don't know if he did that or not. Priscilla put it in a book that Lisa read. Seems like Lisa forgave him, and I think Priscilla did, too. There were no laws regarding the manner in which intimate relations in marriage crossed the line in 1972; it would be about 5 years later, after his death, that the laws would begin to change.

It was a terrible thing, and I wish he didn't do it, but he did. As I said, I sure hope he regretted it as much as some of his fans regret that he did it.

As for other women, in EWH, they said "that wasn't his style" (when they heard Scatter in the bedroom making a girl scream in terror) - that he didn't hit women, period, but there were a couple of incidents where he acted out of line. Where it would have been wrong if it were either gender. But it's worse if it's a woman, because in one case, there was nothing she could do. Being a woman, she couldn't stop him from dragging her. A man might have fought back and kicked his butt.

One was when he threw the pool cue at a guy's date, and it hit her in the chest. He didn't "beat her up," but she got hurt from what he threw at her. She got bruised badly. (In the Presley family, they tended to throw stuff when they got mad. Hence Dodger's nickname, because stuff was flying around. Even as a child, he apparently threw a baseball at somebody, and Dodger dodged it.)

The other was Christina Crawford. She threw water in his face, and he responded by dragging her by the hair to the door and threw her out, by the hair, apparently. I guess that qualifies as "beating up" but it's not domestic violence. They weren't dating, and he wasn't threatening her: he was throwing her out of the house. It's . . . I don't know what you call it. But it was wrong.

rjm




Very sad things, but after doing these, I am sure he felt very sorry .


Do you think Tony Brown feels sorry too? I do.

Again, it is pretty pathetic that some people here are taking pot-shots at Brown, when the hero of this forum is no saint when it comes to behavior.

Or is all the above just "a bunch of he said she said bull"? ;-)

Re: Elvis' Pianist Tony Brown Arrested On Domestic Charges

Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:47 am

No one is a Saint...but you, or I or no one else knows for sure if Elvis DID do those things that have been mentioned above...again...and read carefully...It is all SPECULATION. :wink:

Re: Elvis' Pianist Tony Brown Arrested On Domestic Charges

Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:49 am

Gives us some cold hard scientific facts doc...don't pass the buck. Give us some real juicy details...hardcore proof. :lol:

Re: Elvis' Pianist Tony Brown Arrested On Domestic Charges

Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:13 am

Again, it is pretty pathetic that some people here are taking pot-shots at Brown, when the hero of this forum is no saint when it comes to behavior.

Or is all the above just "a bunch of he said she said bull"?


Just so I can be clear Doc, as you were the one who turned this post around to Elvis. Does the post by RJM cover everything you were implying Elvis had done under the banner of "domestic abuse", or are there further incidents you can share. Again, you are the one who brought Elvis in to this, threw in the hand grenade, but have then refused to eleborate. Please back up your insinuation that Elvis was guilty of domestic violence towards women with specific examples.

Re: Elvis' Pianist Tony Brown Arrested On Domestic Charges

Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:28 am

DarrylMac wrote:Just so I can be clear Doc, as you were the one who turned this post around to Elvis.


Um, actually, no.

I would be great for you to be clear. I will provide some hints.

The first thing you need to do is locate where this topic was posted (All Elvis), by whom (TCB-FAN), and why "Tony Brown" is the Subject (played piano for Elvis).

Now put all those things together.

Good luck:
http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=79749

Re: Elvis' Pianist Tony Brown Arrested On Domestic Charges

Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:35 am

DarrylMac wrote:
Again, it is pretty pathetic that some people here are taking pot-shots at Brown, when the hero of this forum is no saint when it comes to behavior.

Or is all the above just "a bunch of he said she said bull"?


Just so I can be clear Doc, as you were the one who turned this post around to Elvis. Does the post by RJM cover everything you were implying Elvis had done under the banner of "domestic abuse", or are there further incidents you can share. Again, you are the one who brought Elvis in to this, threw in the hand grenade, but have then refused to eleborate. Please back up your insinuation that Elvis was guilty of domestic violence towards women with specific examples.


Well, I listed the things. And I can't speak for anyone else, but I think that covers it. For many men, that would be a very short list. Sad, but true. It really "wasn't his style" as they inelegantly put it, but NONE of us has lived a perfect life, where we've done absolutely nothing bad. No one. It really is those three things, as far as women are concerned. And only one was a truly serious thing. Speculation? Naw, those things happened, and were corroborated. If not, I surely would not have mentioned them. But who among us hasn't done stuff we regret?

When I was 9, this 6-year-old went into a closet in an unserpervised classroom, and for reasons I don't understand. I held the door shut, and she was hollering, and banging on the door. I STILL feel guilty about it! I don't know why I did it. They asked me why, and I said "I don't know." Okay, I was a child, but everyone has done *something,* or they wouldn't be human. We would all be saints. We can't be. We can only do our best. Tony Brown could be a bad guy, or this could be the first time he ever lost it. If it was all over the news, it has to be a difficult thing for everyone involved.

I think Elvis did okay with a bad temper; he generally did the right thing. He wasn't Jerry Lee Lewis! Perhaps this was a one-off for Brown; we don't know. Maybe he has a history of this, or maybe he doesn't. Perhaps reserve judgment of him as a "bad person" for the moment. You don't know all the details. He was busted, but I don't think it has been adjudicated. Has everyone given their side of the story, in public?

Sometimes, it turns out bad. But not every "stupid mistake" means a guy is OJ. Bigger people shouldn't hurt littler people, but tempers do get lost, and people do things they wish they hadn't. And it doesn't always define a person. Sometimes it does. I don't think those incidents defined Elvis. Yes, he had a temper. But he generally kept it from crossing the line. I mean: hundreds of books, and only 3 things in a very, very wild young life. Not excusing those things, but he tried to be a good person and usually succeeded.

It's just that nobody's perfect, and sometimes we "lose it." At 9, or 66, or 37. You hope to learn from it, and never do it again. The point is that nobody's perfect. Elvis, or probably any of us. (If I am wrong about that, I profoundly apologize to anyone.) We virtually all have something we really, really wish we hadn't done.

You can dismiss the few times Elvis crossed the line with anger, and acted inappropriately, or you can count him as a . . . person. In 1977, he became an angel; not before.

If there's a heaven, I truly believe he's there. Isn't that enough?

rjm
P.S. -- You never know who's on the Internet, so I hope Selina remembers that I apologized profusely, and that she said "forget about it." Which, fortunately, I never did. I never forgot about it. I analyzed it, later. I took out all my rage on a small person who couldn't fight back, because I had always been victimized. It just . . . happened. And it never happened again.

I think Elvis did pretty good along those lines. He always spoke of his temper, and it troubled him. I think he tried his best, and save for one truly serious incident, and two strange ones, did control it. I listed the incidents to show that he did NOT go around "beating up" women! I felt that didn't adequately characterize his conduct, so I took it upon myself to list the incidents. I wasn't minimizing them, but at the same time, I wanted *someone* to clarify it, and I decided to be that someone.

Re: Elvis' Pianist Tony Brown Arrested On Domestic Charges

Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:28 pm

You're right, rjm. Nobody's perfect, like Jack Lemmon character said in the end of the great "Some like it Hot" movie with Marilyn Monroe and Tony Curtis from 1959. You listed the incidents very clearly. The incidents I was afraid the most were: in 1974 when Elvis shoot with his pistol and the bullet was close to Linda and in 1975 when Elvis injured superficially Dr. Nick in the chest in the same careless way. I am happy that nothing happened, if a tragedy happened then, Elvis could be convicted for many years in prison.

Re: Elvis' Pianist Tony Brown Arrested On Domestic Charges

Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:42 pm

jurasic1968 wrote:You're right, rjm. Nobody's perfect, like Jack Lemmon character said in the end of the great "Some like it Hot" movie with Marilyn Monroe and Tony Curtis from 1959. You listed the incidents very clearly. The incidents I was afraid the most were: in 1974 when Elvis shoot with his pistol and the bullet was close to Linda and in 1975 when Elvis injured superficially Dr. Nick in the chest in the same careless way. I am happy that nothing happened, if a tragedy happened then, Elvis could be convicted for many years in prison.


But those were accidents; he had no intention of hurting anyone, so those are different. That's in the category of irresponsibility, not deliberate. And it wasn't about women; anyone could have been in that restroom. He wasn't gonna shoot Nick, either; he was just being a brat. But it was foolish. That's not the same, though, as being a "woman-beater" as "Vince" put it in Jailhouse Rock. There's a lot of Elvis in that early scene. He would protect someone like that, I think. I would like to think so.

rjm

Sent From My Phabulous Galaxy Note II Phablet Using Tapatalk 4

Re: Elvis' Pianist Tony Brown Arrested On Domestic Charges

Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:46 pm

Absolutelly. I agree, there were incidents and accidents, different things. Thank you very much again for the explanation.

Re: Elvis' Pianist Tony Brown Arrested On Domestic Charges

Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:46 pm

Um, actually, no.

I would be great for you to be clear. I will provide some hints.

The first thing you need to do is locate where this topic was posted (All Elvis), by whom (TCB-FAN), and why "Tony Brown" is the Subject (played piano for Elvis).

Now put all those things together.


Ok - let's be clear together. The first mention of Elvis in this thread was your comment below. You brought Elvis in to it, no-one else, regardless of where the topic was posted.

This all seems a bit exploitative, and the pot shots in reply are a little cold. After all, Elvis had his share of violent issues in the 1970s, but we don't devote topics to them, do we?


You then went further, and directly insinuated Elvis was guilty of domestic violence:

Well...he should not be going around beating up on women. Anyone who does that, is fair game in my book.

Guess that includes your hero, Elvis.


But, despite repeated polite requests for further information about the incidents of domestic voilence, you've instead decided to try to belittle me with comments including the fact I'd not used the quote function correctly, rather than answer what is a perfectly reasobable request. As always, your attitude here diminishes some your excellent posts elsewhere on the board.

RJM and others - thanks for your contribution. I think it's clear that while there are examples of foolish / careless behaviour, the incident on the night Priscila said she was leaving, Elvis was not ever a woman beater.

Re: Elvis' Pianist Tony Brown Arrested On Domestic Charges

Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:31 pm

Yes Doc considering you are always banging on about people not backing up things they post you seem to be avoiding backing up what you have implied.