Off Topic Messages

Burn your own CD's......

Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:33 pm

A lot of people burn their own CD's, sometimes with rare material on them.
But after a while it seems these CD-R's cannot be played anymore.
So these days I keep all music and video material also on external harddrives.
For safety I make a copy of these external harddrives so if one gets defective, I hope the other one can still be used and i can copy that one again to a new external harddrive.
I listen to music on my mobile telephone with built-in radio and MP3-player while travelling or walking or even shopping!

Re: Burn your own CD's......

Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:55 pm

zolderopruiming1 wrote:So these days I keep all music and video material also on external harddrives.
For safety I make a copy of these external harddrives so if one gets defective, I hope the other one can still be used and i can copy that one again to a new external harddrive.
I listen to music on my mobile telephone with built-in radio and MP3-player while travelling or walking or even shopping!




I have been doing this for years and my guess is other people will be doing the same ! so whats your point !!!

Re: Burn your own CD's......

Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:19 am

rocknroller wrote:
zolderopruiming1 wrote:So these days I keep all music and video material also on external harddrives.
For safety I make a copy of these external harddrives so if one gets defective, I hope the other one can still be used and i can copy that one again to a new external harddrive.
I listen to music on my mobile telephone with built-in radio and MP3-player while travelling or walking or even shopping!




I have been doing this for years and my guess is other people will be doing the same ! so whats your point !!![/quote]
:lol:

Re: Burn your own CD's......

Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:20 am

promiseland wrote:
rocknroller wrote:
zolderopruiming1 wrote:So these days I keep all music and video material also on external harddrives.
For safety I make a copy of these external harddrives so if one gets defective, I hope the other one can still be used and i can copy that one again to a new external harddrive.
I listen to music on my mobile telephone with built-in radio and MP3-player while travelling or walking or even shopping!




I have been doing this for years and my guess is other people will be doing the same ! so whats your point !!![/quote]
:lol:


exactly :lol:

Re: Burn your own CD's......

Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:37 am

The point is that there are people who do not save music burned onto CD-R's on their PC or external harddisk.
So perhaps they see this topic and rip their CD-R's onto the PC.

Re: Burn your own CD's......

Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:33 pm

zolderopruiming1 wrote:But after a while it seems these CD-R's cannot be played anymore.

Who told you this?

CDr's contain digital media which does not degrade. Surely if treated carefully, they should last as long as any factory pressed CD?

Re: Burn your own CD's......

Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:52 pm

I have CD-Rs that are way older than an external hard that died a sudden and tragic death several years ago! I had business files on there!

Get a few 128 GB thumb drives if you're nervous. And, yes, duplicate. It's called SFT, an old NASA thing: system fault tolerance.

Nothing is perfect, but haven't lost a homemade personal disc yet. I don't use them as much, since I have the IPod Classic hooked up to the car. One of those cassette adapters. Works nice, except the car has metal fatigue, and got all flooded with water. Those CDs will outlive my CAR!

rjm

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Re: Burn your own CD's......

Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:08 pm

Mike S wrote:
zolderopruiming1 wrote:But after a while it seems these CD-R's cannot be played anymore.

Who told you this?

CDr's contain digital media which does not degrade. Surely if treated carefully, they should last as long as any factory pressed CD?

Umm this is a negative Mike S...

Most have an average of 5-10 year shelf life depending on the media brand.

CD-R shelf life refers to the length of time that a recordable compact disc will remain viable once data has been burned onto it. Top manufacturers like Mitsui, Verbatim, Maxell, Memorex and TDK claim that premium discs, with protective coating and special dyes, will last 50 or even 100 years.

Many industry experts, however, think that the unrecorded shelf life of a CD-R disc is more conservatively estimated to be between five and 10 years. One expert from IBM estimates longevity at two to five years.

...and this is fact, as the dyes rapidly become brittle with age.
Pressed disc do not have this problem, but can accompany CD Rot if the protective layer is damaged, or the label inks do not comply with the code standards.
http://searchstorage.techtarget.com/def ... shelf-life

Re: Burn your own CD's......

Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:24 pm

CD-R shelf life refers to the length of time that a recordable compact disc will remain viable once data has been burned onto it. Top manufacturers like Mitsui, Verbatim, Maxell, Memorex and TDK claim that premium discs, with protective coating and special dyes, will last 50 or even 100 years.

So the moral is: Use a decent brand and it will last a lifetime.

Many industry experts, however, think that the unrecorded shelf life of a CD-R disc is more conservatively estimated to be between five and 10 years. One expert from IBM estimates longevity at two to five years.

To avoid this problem then, record onto them within 5-10 years?

Re: Burn your own CD's......

Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:27 pm

I have never had a problem with cdr i have burned

Re: Burn your own CD's......

Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:41 pm

Mine usually work for about ten plays then start skipping then that's the beginning of the end.

I've stopped bothering making them. Wasted loads of money on many brands, burned them at different speeds etc and they never last.

Funny thing is, I made a complete nashville 1970 two CD set, a Nashville 71 masters set and an exclusive live CD (tracks only done on stage) almost twnty years ago on a CD Recorder machine I briefly owned. These were not the same type of discs you use on a computer - they say audio only on them.

They work as good as new and have been played many many times on many players over the years.

Funny.

Re: Burn your own CD's......

Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:31 pm

Swingin-Little-Guitar-Man wrote:Mine usually work for about ten plays then start skipping then that's the beginning of the end.

I've stopped bothering making them. Wasted loads of money on many brands, burned them at different speeds etc and they never last.

Funny thing is, I made a complete nashville 1970 two CD set, a Nashville 71 masters set and an exclusive live CD (tracks only done on stage) almost twnty years ago on a CD Recorder machine I briefly owned. These were not the same type of discs you use on a computer - they say audio only on them.

They work as good as new and have been played many many times on many players over the years.

Funny.

Sounds like it's time for a new burner! :lol:

Re: Burn your own CD's......

Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:52 pm

promiseland wrote:
Mike S wrote:
zolderopruiming1 wrote:But after a while it seems these CD-R's cannot be played anymore.

Who told you this?

CDr's contain digital media which does not degrade. Surely if treated carefully, they should last as long as any factory pressed CD?

Umm this is a negative Mike S...

Most have an average of 5-10 year shelf life depending on the media brand.


Not true. I have been burning my own compilation/back up cd:s for a long time. I have many that are 12-13 years old. Works fine.

Re: Burn your own CD's......

Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:01 pm

Scarre wrote:Not true. I have been burning my own compilation/back up cd:s for a long time. I have many that are 12-13 years old. Works fine.

The question is, do you also have some which no longer work?

Re: Burn your own CD's......

Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:03 pm

The Pirate wrote:
Scarre wrote:Not true. I have been burning my own compilation/back up cd:s for a long time. I have many that are 12-13 years old. Works fine.

The question is, do you also have some which no longer work?

Because of cd rot? No.

Re: Burn your own CD's......

Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:13 pm

Scarre wrote:
The Pirate wrote:
Scarre wrote:Not true. I have been burning my own compilation/back up cd:s for a long time. I have many that are 12-13 years old. Works fine.

The question is, do you also have some which no longer work?

Because of cd rot? No.

Or any other time-related degradation issue?

Re: Burn your own CD's......

Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:53 pm

Mike S wrote:
zolderopruiming1 wrote:But after a while it seems these CD-R's cannot be played anymore.

Who told you this?

CDr's contain digital media which does not degrade. Surely if treated carefully, they should last as long as any factory pressed CD?


Nobody told me.
I have demo CD-R's of singer-songwriters and even though these are only 5 years old, they do not play properly anymore. Pops and clicks invaded the music and these cannot be eliminated. Tried to copy CD-R's, tried to rip them, tried to play them on all sorts of CD-players, nothing succeeded in getting rid of the pops and clicks and other weird sounds not on the original recording.
Sometimes it is on all songs, sometimes just on a few.

Re: Burn your own CD's......

Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:01 pm

Scarre wrote:
The Pirate wrote:
Scarre wrote:Not true. I have been burning my own compilation/back up cd:s for a long time. I have many that are 12-13 years old. Works fine.

The question is, do you also have some which no longer work?

Because of cd rot? No.

Any reason at all, even if you don't know what the reason is.

The thing is, I have hundreds of CD-Rs made over the years, but without playing them all I have no idea if they work or not. The same goes for my silver discs when you come to think about it. I have many thousands, dating back as far as 1985 when I bought my first CD player, and for all I know 75% of them may no longer work. I doubt it very much, but I don't know. As far as the CD-Rs go, if there are lots of folks saying - and there are lots of folks saying this - that some of their discs stop working after a while, then statistically there's every chance that some of yours will also refuse to work. You just might not know it yet.

Re: Burn your own CD's......

Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:07 am

When I first started to make my own cdrs I used Philips cdrs. Back then (at least where I live) there where 2 different versions. One that had the text "Music" on it and the other "Data". I don´t know if they really where any different, but I used the "Music" one and they have been very good. A handful of them have stopped working because of my own fault, scratches. But yes, there are alot of them, so perhaps one of them has stopped working that I´m not aware of...I´m very pleased with them. Alot of them are left in the house in the archipelago during winter so they are not even being stored properly, still they work.

Re: Burn your own CD's......

Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:53 am

Mine go back to 2006, and all are perfect as the day I burned them. Maybe just lucky so far. It's not ten years, but they play just great, and seem in great condition. The only CD (commercial) I ever lost to destruction by the elements was Sam Cooke's Greatest Hits. I hate to describe this in this venue, due to a certain running gag, but I did something dumb. I got one of those Brookstone "play your CDs in the shower when you're getting ready for work." It didn't last but six months, and it got all nasty looking and didn't play right anymore. :oops: :oops: :oops:

That's the only disc I know of that ever self-destructed.

rjm

Re: Burn your own CD's......

Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:20 pm

So just to recap, according to the manufacturers and other commentators, we've established that a good quality CDr (recommended for the storage of audio files) will last a lifetime (50-100 years), provided it has been recorded onto within 5-10 years of its date of manufacture and has been treated with care and respect. No-one, so far it seems, has come forward with any hard evidence to challenge this.

Another myth busted? ....this thread has been useful after all.

Re: Burn your own CD's......

Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:49 pm

Mike S wrote:So just to recap, according to the manufacturers and other commentators, we've established that a good quality CDr (recommended for the storage of audio files) will last a lifetime (50-100 years), provided it has been recorded onto within 5-10 years of its date of manufacture and has been treated with care and respect. No-one, so far it seems, has come forward with any hard evidence to challenge this.

Nobody, apart from the many people who say that they have had CD-rs which have failed within a few years or even months of making them? Apart from them, no.

I can also confirm that home recorded DVDs are as bad if not worse. I was a member of an online film rental club - Lovefilm - and would regularly copy discs in order to watch them back later. I had the membership where I could rent as many discs as I liked for a fixed fee, so I would get a DVD, copy it, send it back, get another etc etc. I built up a library of a hundred or so movies, canceled my membership, and then we all settled down to view them. Some worked, but a large percentage of those discs are now unwatchable.

Re: Burn your own CD's......

Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:30 pm

The Pirate wrote:
Mike S wrote:So just to recap, according to the manufacturers and other commentators, we've established that a good quality CDr (recommended for the storage of audio files) will last a lifetime (50-100 years), provided it has been recorded onto within 5-10 years of its date of manufacture and has been treated with care and respect. No-one, so far it seems, has come forward with any hard evidence to challenge this.

Nobody, apart from the many people who say that they have had CD-rs which have failed within a few years or even months of making them? Apart from them, no.

Quite. Yet those reports are inconclusive and unlikely, in my view, to be due to any time degradation issue as this medium is clearly designed to store information for longer than that. So it seems there are other factors at play here.

Perhaps the equipment or program used to burn them had developed a fault or was incompatible, or that cheap CDr's designed for the storage of general data were used which may not be as compatible with the exclusive storage of audio files? Or even slight changes in the voltage of the electricity suppy during the recording process? Who knows? On that score we still await reliable evidence.

The Pirate wrote:I can also confirm that home recorded DVDs are as bad if not worse. I was a member of an online film rental club - Lovefilm - and would regularly copy discs in order to watch them back later. I had the membership where I could rent as many discs as I liked for a fixed fee, so I would get a DVD, copy it, send it back, get another etc etc. I built up a library of a hundred or so movies, canceled my membership, and then we all settled down to view them. Some worked, but a large percentage of those discs are now unwatchable.

Yes, I can relate to that because copying film onto DVDr's does seem to be a more sensitive process. (No doubt due to the increased size of the files).

But here also it is doubtful that time was a factor in determining when those DVDrs stopped working. In my experience I have found faults present due to flaws in the recording process at the time the copy was made. Of course the only way to prove this is to watch the copied disc right through immediately you have finished copying it. Not many do this I'll wager.
Last edited by Mike S on Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Burn your own CD's......

Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:45 pm

Mike S wrote:
The Pirate wrote:
Mike S wrote:So just to recap, according to the manufacturers and other commentators, we've established that a good quality CDr (recommended for the storage of audio files) will last a lifetime (50-100 years), provided it has been recorded onto within 5-10 years of its date of manufacture and has been treated with care and respect. No-one, so far it seems, has come forward with any hard evidence to challenge this.

Nobody, apart from the many people who say that they have had CD-rs which have failed within a few years or even months of making them? Apart from them, no.

Quite. Yet those reports are inconclusive and unlikely, in my view, to be due to any time degradation issue as this medium is clearly designed to store information for longer than that. So it seems there are other factors at play here.

Perhaps the equipment or program used to burn them had developed a fault or was incompatible, or that cheap CDr's designed for the storage of general data were used which some have suggested are not as compatible with the exclusive storage of audio files? Who knows? On that score we still await reliable evidence.

The Pirate wrote:I can also confirm that home recorded DVDs are as bad if not worse. I was a member of an online film rental club - Lovefilm - and would regularly copy discs in order to watch them back later. I had the membership where I could rent as many discs as I liked for a fixed fee, so I would get a DVD, copy it, send it back, get another etc etc. I built up a library of a hundred or so movies, canceled my membership, and then we all settled down to view them. Some worked, but a large percentage of those discs are now unwatchable.

Yes, I can relate to that as DVDr's do seem to be a more sensitive medium.

However even here I doubt that time was a factor in determining when those DVDrs stopped working. In my experience I have found faults present due to inaccuracy in the recording process at the time the copy was made. Of course the only way to prove this is to watch the copied disc right through immediately you have finished copying it. Not many do this I'll wager.


The only difference between audio and data media, is that audio discs can only be used in audio burners. The actual disc itself is identical, but they have some kind of 'header' encoded that prevents them from being used in a computer drive. Or maybe it's the other way round, maybe data discs can't be used in audio drives, I'm not sure, I do know that the media itself is the same. Of course you can get good data discs and bad ones, so that will have more of an influence than anything.

The point about why a disc fails is that while it may be possible it's a recording fault, this doesn't explain why some discs don't fail despite being the same brand, burned on the same drive, at the same speed, using the same software. It does appear that CDR-s are generally not a reliable medium. Yes, you'll always find discs that are 30 years old and still working, but I don't think you can say that they are 100% guaranteed to last as long as you have some mythical method of producing them.

Re: Burn your own CD's......

Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:23 pm

zolderopruiming1 wrote:A lot of people burn their own CD's, sometimes with rare material on them.
But after a while it seems these CD-R's cannot be played anymore.


Have had a cd-writer since 1998 and all my discs still Works fine.