elvisalisellers wrote: Bodie wrote:
Delboy wrote:It's fairly ironic that some people are adamant that Tyson would have beaten a prime Ali when Tyson's penultimate fight was a 4th round KO loss against one of the worst British heavyweights in history. To my knowledge, 'William's Hammer' is an uncommon term in the boxing world.
Im not saying Tyson would have beaten Ali, all im saying is i give him a great chance of causing an upset in the early rounds.
As for the Tyson/Williams fight, watch the fight and you see in the 1st round, Tyson suffered a complex tear on the lateral meniscus in his left knee and needed surgery after the fight.
The surgeon who did the operation on Mike said afterwards he was amazed that Tyson had carried on boxing for 3-4 rounds afterwards.
Tyson's manager Shelley Finkel added: "It explains a lot.
"Once he lost the ability to pivot, turn, or move laterally, much less put pressure on his left leg, he lost the ability to throw any more meaningful right hands which had been so effective up to the point of the injury."
Danny Williams got very lucky that night.
All these excuses you make for Tyson, and yet you're the first to make ignorant and demeaning remarks about Ali, that have no foundation whatsoever in the real world.
Let me remind you of a few:"Tyson would be favourite to knock out Ali in the early rounds."History, unfortunately is not on your side.
Muhammad Ali - unlike Mike Tyson - was never countered out, let alone in the early rounds."I think a prime Foreman would have had a better chance of beating a prime Tyson than a
prime Ali."Peak Foreman loved it when boxers fought on the inside against him, but that doesn't automatically favour him over Ali as having a better chance of beating Tyson.
Ali had far more in his locker than George ever had."The second Ali/Frazier fight, Ali didn't dominate it."He did. It was a non-event."What is not mentioned was the illegal use of smelling salts that Dundee used on Ali."Angelo Dundee did no such thing."If YOU study the fight, you will see Wepner punch Ali in the ribs and he go down regardless if Ali is going backwards. Its an official knockdown."Total bullshit, as I've already pointed out."Yes, Ali came back and won the fight in the next round due to the fact Cooper was cut and the torn glove Dundee made bigger was a big help."If you count the extra 6 seconds, then yes, it was a massive help."Ali got knocked down by 14 stone Henry Cooper a year before he beat Liston for the World Title and Ali was all over the place when he got to his feet, only being saved by the bell.
If Tyson would have caught him with a punch like that, Ali wouldn't have even got off the canvas."Once again, you exaggerate the facts to suit your agenda.
Did Henry catch him with a great left hook? Yes.
Was Ali disorientated? Definitely not.
Did Ali then go on to give Cooper a savage beating in the next round? Yes.
But you fail to mention this.
As far as Ali not getting up off the canvas if Tyson had hit him; yet again you are wilfully ignoring Ali's exceptional warrior spirit.
Let's take a look each fighters record when hitting the canvas:
ALI: KNOCKED DOWN 3 TIMES [4 IT YOU WANT TO COUNT YOUR HERO WEPNER'S FOOT STAMP].
EVERY TIME HE GOT UP - WINNING ALL BUT ONE OF THEM - GOING THE DISTANCE EACH TIME.
TYSON: KNOCKED DOWN 4 TIMES [PLUS A DQ WHEN LOSING].
EVERY TIME HE LOST - FAILING TO GET UP 3 TIMES - NOT GOING THE DISTANCE EACH TIME.
I rest my case.
I never said Tyson was better than Ali.
I never said Tyson would have beaten Ali.
I never said Tyson would knock out Ali in the early rounds.
The reason i said that a prime Foreman would have a better chance of beating a prime Tyson cause of what he did to Frazier. Frazier was very similar to Tyson which is why i think a prime Tyson would have troubled Ali, if they had met.
The 2nd Ali/Frazier fight was NOT a non-event, it was for the NABF Heavyweight Title.
I stand corrected about Dundee using smelling salts of Ali's fight with Cooper, it was another cornerman who did it. But still totally illegal.
The Ali knockdown by Wepner WAS an official knockdown, do some proper research about the rules of boxing and you will realise this.
The extra 6 seconds that Ali got in the first Cooper fight didn't help Ali but the torn glove did as it cut Coopers face more which is why the fight was stopped. Totally illegal again. (if a cornerman did that in today's boxing they would have been banned).
Ali stumbled back to his corner after Cooper knocked him down and while he was in his corner, Ali stood up cause he was disorientated.Watch the fight and see for yourself.
With the help of a torn glove, Ali did come back and cut Coopers face even more for the ref to stop the fight.
Lastly, i have never said ignorant and demeaning remarks about Ali, just used something that you haven't used, common sense. In fact, i have said that Ali is the greatest Heavyweight of all time with Joe Louis a close second.
I have never predicted the outcome of a Prime Ali/Prime Tyson fight but you obviously have, which as i have said, is impossible but anyone with any boxing knowledge knows that.