Off Topic Messages

Who wins at their peak - ALI or TYSON ?

MUHAMMAD ALI
9
64%
MIKE TYSON
5
36%
 
Total votes : 14

Re: Tyson on Ali

Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:41 am

Bodie wrote:What part of that don't you understand?

Oh, I understand you just fine, fella.

Re: Tyson on Ali

Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:49 am

elvisalisellers wrote:
TJ wrote:I think there's some crossed wires on this thread though.

No crossed wires, it's as clear as day.

TJ wrote:The question was supposed to be about both men in their prime.

Was supposed to be, until one member decided to change the goalposts with one ignorant/derogatory remark after another, to suit their agenda.

Here's but one example:

"If Tyson would have caught him with a punch like that [referring to the 1963 Cooper knockdown], Ali wouldn't have even got off the canvas."


Nothing ignorant about my remark, just common sense.

Tyson was a much more powerful puncher than a 14st Henry Cooper.

And it wasn't me that brought up the Henry Cooper fight, i was just replying to another members post.

You are the ONE who started this topic. claiming you know that Ali would have beaten Tyson and when others disagree with you, then you start to stamp your feet and throw your teddy in the corner just cause your not getting your own way.

Re: Tyson on Ali

Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:55 am

I think were all going around in circles now.Both Ali and Tyson caught the publics imagination and transended the sport of Boxing so it's inevitible that boxing fans like to play the what if game.I don't know who would have won,I have a great deal of respect for both boxers for what they brought to the game and would like to think that neither would be out of their depth with each other.
I have strong affection for Tyson as he was the one who got me into boxing and I can respect the feelings of others who feel the same way about Ali.I think that we should be grateful that we've been fortunate enough to have both in are life time.When they were both fighting they brought excitement with them,they had everybody talking about boxing,looking at the sport today I wish we had someone around like them now.

Re: Tyson on Ali

Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:03 am

jacob wrote:I think were all going around in circles now.Both Ali and Tyson caught the publics imagination and transended the sport of Boxing so it's inevitible that boxing fans like to play the what if game.I don't know who would have won,I have a great deal of respect for both boxers for what they brought to the game and would like to think that neither would be out of their depth with each other.
I have strong affection for Tyson as he was the one who got me into boxing and I can respect the feelings of others who feel the same way about Ali.I think that we should be grateful that we've been fortunate enough to have both in are life time.When they were both fighting they brought excitement with them,they had everybody talking about boxing,looking at the sport today I wish we had someone around like them now.


Totally agree with you.

Re: Tyson on Ali

Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:07 am

Bodie wrote:
elvisalisellers wrote:
TJ wrote:I think there's some crossed wires on this thread though.

No crossed wires, it's as clear as day.

TJ wrote:The question was supposed to be about both men in their prime.

Was supposed to be, until one member decided to change the goalposts with one ignorant/derogatory remark after another, to suit their agenda.

Here's but one example:

"If Tyson would have caught him with a punch like that [referring to the 1963 Cooper knockdown], Ali wouldn't have even got off the canvas."


Nothing ignorant about my remark, just common sense.

And it wasn't me that brought up the Henry Cooper fight, i was just replying to another members post.

It was you who brought up the 1963 Cooper fight.

You've spouted so much shite you can't remember what you've said > viewtopic.php?f=2&t=74437&start=50#p1122534

Re: Tyson on Ali

Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:11 am

elvisalisellers wrote:
Bodie wrote:
elvisalisellers wrote:
TJ wrote:I think there's some crossed wires on this thread though.

No crossed wires, it's as clear as day.

TJ wrote:The question was supposed to be about both men in their prime.

Was supposed to be, until one member decided to change the goalposts with one ignorant/derogatory remark after another, to suit their agenda.

Here's but one example:

"If Tyson would have caught him with a punch like that [referring to the 1963 Cooper knockdown], Ali wouldn't have even got off the canvas."


Nothing ignorant about my remark, just common sense.

And it wasn't me that brought up the Henry Cooper fight, i was just replying to another members post.

Yes you did.

You've spouted so much shite you can't remember what you've said > viewtopic.php?f=2&t=74437&start=50#p1122534


That was my post from page 3, check out Mitch's post from page 1 and you will see that was when the Cooper fight first got mentioned.
Think you owe me an apology.

Re: Tyson on Ali

Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:21 am

Bodie wrote:That was my post from page 3, check out Mitch's post from page 1 and you will see that was when the Cooper fight first got mentioned.
Think you owe me an apology.

Your post had nothing to do with what Mitch wrote.

You were replying to fg76's "pro-Ali" post when you decided to bring the 1963 Cooper fight up.

Nice dodge though.

Re: Tyson on Ali

Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:30 am

elvisalisellers wrote:
Bodie wrote:That was my post from page 3, check out Mitch's post from page 1 and you will see that was when the Cooper fight first got mentioned.
Think you owe me an apology.

Your post had nothing to do with what Mitch wrote.

You were replying to fg76's "pro-Ali" post when you decided to bring the 1963 Cooper fight up.

Nice dodge though.


Yeah, of course i was. :roll:

Re: Tyson on Ali

Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:38 am

There's only one way to settle this gents: Rocky Marciano undefeated! :)

Re: Tyson on Ali

Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:44 am

Pete Dube wrote:There's only one way to settle this gents: Rocky Marciano undefeated! :)

He wouldn't have stood a chance against Kevin McBride.

Re: Tyson on Ali

Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:45 am

I'm not going to get in the middle of this. All I'll say is Ali was never knocked out. Holmes might have been able to do it, but Ali couldn't even fight the fight and Holmes didn't want to kill him. When Ali fought Berick, the career was over, and he took damage. He might have been knocked out by Tyson, but Ali's speed in his prime would have probably made the difference.

If you want me to answer if I think Tyson could have beaten Ali, it depends on which Ali Tyson would have fought.

Re: Tyson on Ali

Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:53 am

I've added a poll option.

Please vote. Should be interesting.

Re: Tyson on Ali

Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:07 am

elvisalisellers wrote:
Pete Dube wrote:There's only one way to settle this gents: Rocky Marciano undefeated! :)

He wouldn't have stood a chance against Kevin McBride.



And again you focus on Tyson as a shot fighter in order to support your case. Would the 1986 Tyson have lost against McBride? It's the fighters in their primes that the debate is about. The 1986 Tyson would destroy the 1981 Ali, but that's similarly irrelevant to the discussion.

Ali will obviously win the poll because those of us who give Tyson a shot would still tend to side with Ali if forced to choose. A third undecided option might have been more revealing.

Re: Tyson on Ali

Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:38 pm

TJ wrote:
elvisalisellers wrote:
Pete Dube wrote:There's only one way to settle this gents: Rocky Marciano undefeated! :)

He wouldn't have stood a chance against Kevin McBride.

And again you focus on Tyson as a shot fighter in order to support your case.

Wow! It was a joke. You're not the brightest spark, are you?

And what's this shite about me "again" supposedly focussing on Tyson as a "shot fighter."
Do you want to give me some examples?

Oh, the irony of it all, in view of "Bodie's" relentless pop shots at Ali, that you avoided making any comment on.

TJ wrote:It's the fighters in their primes that the debate is about.

Here, in case you missed it:

elvisalisellers wrote:Who wins at their peak


TJ wrote:The 1986 Tyson would destroy the 1981 Ali...

Very interesting choice of words for a man in the late stages of Parkinson's.

TJ wrote:A third undecided option might have been more revealing.

Only for those with no balls, perhaps.

If you want a third "undecided" option, let me know, and I'll put it up especially for you.

Re: Tyson on Ali

Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:40 pm

An intelligent person would have added an 'undecided' option cause that is what i would have voted for.

The poll you have posted is totally pointless.

Re: Tyson on Ali

Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:47 pm

Bodie wrote:An intelligent person would have added an 'undecided' option cause that is what i would have voted for.

The poll you have posted is totally pointless.

No, your posts are totally pointless.

And watch your tongue.

Re: Tyson on Ali

Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:53 pm

elvisalisellers wrote:
Bodie wrote:An intelligent person would have added an 'undecided' option cause that is what i would have voted for.

The poll you have posted is totally pointless.

No, you're posts are totally pointless.

And watch your tongue.



Why didn't you add an 'undecided' option?

Its like you think this fantasy fight is about to happen. :roll:

Wake up, its not.

Re: Tyson on Ali

Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:15 pm

elvisalisellers wrote:
TJ wrote:
elvisalisellers wrote:
Pete Dube wrote:There's only one way to settle this gents: Rocky Marciano undefeated! :)

He wouldn't have stood a chance against Kevin McBride.

And again you focus on Tyson as a shot fighter in order to support your case.


Wow! It was a joke. You're not the brightest spark, are you?


I know it was a joke, but it was also a dig and irrelevant to the discussion. And you seem to have a big problem remaining civil when someone disagrees with you. Continue as you are though because it only makes you look bad to everyone else who reads it.

elvisalisellers wrote:And what's this shite about me "again" supposedly focussing on Tyson as a "shot fighter."
Do you want to give me some examples?


I was referring to the focus on Tyson's knockout defeats, which few would consider likely outcomes when Tyson was really on song.

elvisalisellers wrote:Oh, the irony of it all, in view of "Bodie's" relentless pop shots at Ali, that you avoided making any comment on.


You know I really didn't think Bodie was attacking Ali. He's a fan of the guy. The problem seems to be that you are being too sensitive.

elvisalisellers wrote:
TJ wrote:The 1986 Tyson would destroy the 1981 Ali...

Very interesting choice of words for a man in the late stages of Parkinson's.


Exactly. I was making the point that using that as an argument would make no sense, just as the McBride crack was pointless.

elvisalisellers wrote:
TJ wrote:A third undecided option might have been more revealing.

Only for those with no balls, perhaps.


No, the third option would be for those with the humility to admit that they don't know everything. Boxing is unpredictable, which is partly why it is so exciting.

Re: Tyson on Ali

Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:35 am

TJ wrote:
elvisalisellers wrote:
TJ wrote:
elvisalisellers wrote:
Pete Dube wrote:There's only one way to settle this gents: Rocky Marciano undefeated! :)

He wouldn't have stood a chance against Kevin McBride.

And again you focus on Tyson as a shot fighter in order to support your case.


Wow! It was a joke. You're not the brightest spark, are you?


I know it was a joke, but it was also a dig and irrelevant to the discussion. And you seem to have a big problem remaining civil when someone disagrees with you. Continue as you are though because it only makes you look bad to everyone else who reads.

No, you've already done that yourself when spuriously calling Angelo Dundee a cheat.
The "problem" I have, is when people spout out shite on a subject they know little about.

There are only 2 people on this thread who continue to look bad, and I ain't one of them.
Go figure.

TJ wrote:I was referring to the focus on Tyson's knockout defeats, which few would consider likely outcomes when Tyson was really on song.

You still don't get it.
That's the whole point of making an informed opinion [a point in which you appear to have missed all along] when evaluating and rating a boxers overall career.

TJ wrote:You know I really didn't think Bodie was attacking Ali. He's a fan of the guy. The problem seems to be that you are being too sensitive.

Don't patronise.
No the problem is, you are either blind or too shallow to see anything wrong with his behaviour.
And I'll add, others have noticed it too.

TJ wrote:No, the third option would be for those with the humility to admit that they don't know everything. Boxing is unpredictable, which is partly why it is so exciting.

It has nothing to do with humility.
It stands to reason no one can be sure what exactly would happen, but they sure as hell can make an informed opinion one way or the other without resorting to ignorant and inflammatory remarks, that are clearly posted to incite.

This is where I respect "jacob's" opinion in favour of a Tyson win, over either you or your pal "Bodie".

And here, I would ask you and your friend not to bother posting again [on a thread I initiated], in respect of the man Mike Tyson said there was "No fu*kin' way" he could beat.

Re: Tyson on Ali

Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:54 pm

elvisalisellers,

Well Angelo Dundee has admitted to cheating by tearing the glove of Ali when he fought Cooper in '63.

I haven't attacked Ali at all, just looked at the fantasy fight with intelligence by saying its impossible to say what would have happened if they had met in their pime.

As for Tyson saying that he could never have beaten Ali if they had met in their prime, Tyson is just saying that out of respect.
If Tyson had come out and said that he could have beaten Ali, he would have been looked at as a big-head and probably hated.

The clip you put up of Tyson saying Ali would have beaten him proves nothing as Ali was asked the same question when he was on the Arsenio Hall show with Tyson and Ray Leonard, filmed when Tyson was at his peak and the answer Ali gave is that he would have been knocked out by Tyson and Ali also said that Tyson punches harder than Shavers.

Here is that clip where Arsenio asks the question around 2:30secs of the clip.
http://youtu.be/dIIqgr1XO8M

Maybe Ali was respecting Tyson by saying this, just as Tyson was respecting Ali in the first clip you put up.

Either way, as i have said a number of times in this topic, no one would really know what would happen so its completely pointless trying to predict an outcome as you have done.

All myself and TJ have done is given an intelligent input into your topic so there is no need to get off your high-horse and have a hissy fit.
Even you have said that it stands to reason that no one can be sure what exactly would happen.

Why can't you just leave it as that?

Re: Tyson on Ali

Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:55 pm

Just found this on Youtube.I haven't watched it yet so I can't comment on it.Hope you all enjoy it.



http://youtu.be/t0kHRg6cOd8

And this;

http://youtu.be/QsQm7sHyNd4

And

http://youtu.be/Hi6uoijgHa4

Re: Tyson on Ali

Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:44 pm

elvisalisellers wrote:There are only 2 people on this thread who continue to look bad, and I ain't one of them.
Go figure.


You have questioned the intelligence of those who disagree with you, quite weirdly said that those who fail to make a choice in a poll lack balls, and now tell others that they are spouting "shite" because they don't have exactly the same view as you. Who is behaving poorly? Sure isn't me. I haven't insulted you.


elvisalisellers wrote:
TJ wrote:I was referring to the focus on Tyson's knockout defeats, which few would consider likely outcomes when Tyson was really on song.

You still don't get it.
That's the whole point of making an informed opinion [a point in which you appear to have missed all along] when evaluating and rating a boxers overall career.


No I really didn't miss that point because we were talking about prime Ali and prime Tyson, not their overall careers. Ask me who has the most impressive career and I say Ali of course.

elvisalisellers wrote:
TJ wrote:No, the third option would be for those with the humility to admit that they don't know everything. Boxing is unpredictable, which is partly why it is so exciting.

It has nothing to do with humility.
It stands to reason no one can be sure what exactly would happen, but they sure as hell can make an informed opinion one way or the other without resorting to ignorant and inflammatory remarks, that are clearly posted to incite.

This is where I respect "jacob's" opinion in favour of a Tyson win, over either you or your pal "Bodie".


Sorry to break it to you, but if you respect Jacob's opinion then you also respect my opinion because I agree with everything he said. You would realise that if you knew me better. Too bad you chose to fill in the gaps and assume otherwise.

As for the crack about Bodie being my "pal," is this a playground? I don't even know the guy. First a "follower" of Bodie and now a pal :lol: I just happen to agree with his conclusion (as also advanced by jacob) that Tyson's power and speed means that he has a chance against Ali. I've said more than once that if forced to choose I would side with Ali. I'm just not as sold on that conclusion as you.

Re: Tyson on Ali

Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:28 am

Athletically and/or intellectually Mike Tyson wasn't/isn't worthy to carry Muhammad Ali's sweaty jock strap.

Tyson :smt062 Ali

Re: Tyson on Ali

Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:11 pm

Well if you think that you don't know much about Boxing.If Tyson was as bad as that we wouldn't even be talking about a fight between Ali and him.As for the jockstrap remark,that's just a retread of what Larry Holmes said about Rocky Marciano,it was classless then as well.
I think that if people just dismiss Tyson as a "No skills" fighter they're just looking for a argument. As I said before, we never saw the best of Tyson as he went into self destruct before he could really realize his potential.And Ali was a great fighter and love him or not(I'm a fan) no one can dismiss that fact that he had something special which was that he had the determination and will to win.
But we got to remember that Boxing is not as clear cut and as easy to predict as we might think,when Ali fought Foreman a lot of people worried for his health and his camp supposedly gave referee Zack Clayton $5000 to stop the fight if Ali was getting hurt but Ali upset the odds and became champ again.
I think people tend to look at the fights Tyson had at the end of his career rather than Ali's as his are fresher in the general public mind.If looked at objectively without emotion being brought in to it,the match between them would be pretty well balanced and not a one side walk through for either.Ali was the greatest but it didn't mean he couldn't be beat and Tyson through his own actions was beaten.
Both of their careers are over now so we should be happy with the memories they have both given us.

Re: Tyson on Ali

Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:37 pm

I see it happening like Tyson says. Ali would drag him into deep waters in the later rounds and eventually drown him. Ali would get hit with good shots in the first couple of rounds (the 70s Ali), but once these first rounds were passed, he would have set a rhythm, found his target. But he didn't have the firepower to knock out Tyson, I don't think. He would cut Tyson's face up and win on unanumous points decision. Tyson was strong as a bull. A skilled boxer, also, which doesn't get enough attention. And very, very fast. Great natural ability and a great trainer.

But Ali was faster and certainly had more will-power and the more stable charachter. But he would jab his head off, all night long(*). Too bad they don't do those 15-round fights anymore, because rounds 10-15, that's where the real drama used to unfold, where the real fighting began.

(*) up until about '75-'76, perhaps! '77.

edit: '77, perhaps not, after all Tyson was a much better boxer than Shavers, with greater stamina, although Shavers hit harder with a single shot. Anyone who saw Shaver's fights must have been scared to death, what he did to big guys like "Tiger" Williams is plain scary. And Holmes knew it, too. That he got up from that jaw-shattering punch shows what a great champion Holmes was, too.
Last edited by James27 on Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.