Off Topic Messages

NORTON WORKS! Direct Attack On My Computer

Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:48 am

I am reposting this, without my IP address, and computer name, numbers, etc. That was dumb!

Anyway, this was no ordinary virus, but a DIRECT attack on my computer, and used the ruse of interest in my school to try to do it!

Norton blocked it. It works!

Look!

ComputerAttack.jpg


rjm
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Re: NORTON WORKS! Direct Attack On My Computer

Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:35 am

This is an attack that's been around since about June It was a vulnerability in the Microsoft XML Core Services (MSXML).

This has since been fixed had you been keeping your PC up to date via "Windows Update" a nice little feature that can be found in your - Start Menu/All Programs/Windows Update.

Read more here to see if you have the correct security update installed:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/secu ... n/ms12-043

Original article When first discovered June 2012:
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/ ... t_XML_flaw

Re: NORTON WORKS! Direct Attack On My Computer

Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:50 am

My machine is new so that may be why it didn't do the updates thoroughl
Thanx. Will check it out. Scary thing! It dirextly went for my machine! Who does thrse type things, anyway?

rjm
P.S. -- Damn Kindle! Can'twrite!

Re: NORTON WORKS! Direct Attack On My Computer

Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:22 pm

Note that Windows Update only updates Windows components.

Things like Adobe PDF Reader,Flash plugins etc should be updated also and non Internet Explorer browsers like Chrome, Firefox, Opera. Everything should be set to automatic updates if possible.

The exploit probably exploited insecure areas of fastwaysaude.com.br in order to upload the javascript toolkit. And then it was embedded on this or other websites. So when someone visits the site it downloads the javascript file and runs it and it looks for out of date plugins to exploit in order to access parts of your browser or computer.

Re: NORTON WORKS! Direct Attack On My Computer

Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:38 pm

You use Norton? :roll:

Bloatware.

Re: NORTON WORKS! Direct Attack On My Computer

Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:51 pm

ECC83 wrote:You use Norton? :roll:

Bloatware.


The new machine handles Norton very well. And the backup is great, among many other things. But mainly, it caught this thing! It felt heart-stopping; it was no "virus." As I said, who DOES this? Why? Just random attempts to destroy people's computers! What kind of people spend their time, doing this?

rjm

Re: NORTON WORKS! Direct Attack On My Computer

Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:36 pm

rjm wrote:
ECC83 wrote:You use Norton? :roll:

Bloatware.


The new machine handles Norton very well. And the backup is great, among many other things. But mainly, it caught this thing! It felt heart-stopping; it was no "virus." As I said, who DOES this? Why? Just random attempts to destroy people's computers! What kind of people spend their time, doing this?

rjm


Just because it "handles" Norton well is no reason to use Norton. For one, you have to pay for Norton.

There is plenty of free Internet Security systems out there that work fine. From Comodo to MSE.

Norton is useless, I haven't used it since the bloatware days, it's probably moved on from bloatware to convince-the-gullible-to-think-they-need-it-product (whatchamacall it? like apple)

Re: NORTON WORKS! Direct Attack On My Computer

Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:43 pm

http://www.filehippo.com/

Top right you see "Free update checker".
This is a great programm.
It checks your computer's programms.
Then you go to their website and you see a list of outdated programms on your PC plus a link to download the update i.e. latest version of that programm.
If you download the latest versions, your PC should be as safe as possible from malware.

Re: NORTON WORKS! Direct Attack On My Computer

Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:31 pm

rjm wrote:
ECC83 wrote:You use Norton? :roll:

Bloatware.


The new machine handles Norton very well. And the backup is great, among many other things. But mainly, it caught this thing! It felt heart-stopping; it was no "virus." As I said, who DOES this? Why? Just random attempts to destroy people's computers! What kind of people spend their time, doing this?

rjm


I do PC Security as a living, i always recommend clients remove Norton, its just bloatware, expensive bloatware too, go here

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/wind ... ssentials/

just pick ur version [dropdown] its completely free with a lifetime of free auto updates, also very light on cpu/ram .........

Re: NORTON WORKS! Direct Attack On My Computer

Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:37 pm

I second that, I've used a range of Internet Security packages over the last 12 years from ISP brands to Norton, Kaspersky, Avast, AVG, Comodo , ZoneAlarm, + others I can't remember now.

I've currently been using MSE for the last year or so, and I've been very happy with it. It is very light, the updates are painless and most of all it's free.

I was troubled at how many family friends have been subscribing to Norton, some had signed up for entire yearly full packages including high-tech security options that are frankly pointless for home users. One of them was paying over $200 per year for a range of security suite options that was laughable!

People running businesses, large servers, etc. only they need to be concerned with choosing between Norton, Microsoft EndPoint, Kaspersky, and what not. Not the regular home users.

Re: NORTON WORKS! Direct Attack On My Computer

Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:27 pm

dennyelvis wrote:
I do PC Security as a living, i always recommend clients remove Norton, its just bloatware, expensive bloatware too, go here

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/wind ... ssentials/

just pick ur version [dropdown] its completely free with a lifetime of free auto updates, also very light on cpu/ram .........


Agree on Norton.

But last time I looked MSE only detected 95% of malware which was one of the worst detection rates.

ECC83 wrote:People running businesses, large servers, etc. only they need to be concerned with choosing between Norton, Microsoft EndPoint, Kaspersky, and what not. Not the regular home users.


I disagree on that, most computers face the same type of threats. You have to evaluate what you are most susceptible to and choose the right antivirus for the situation. If you browse the net a lot then malware is a large problem so choosing MSE wouldnt be an option, choose G-data or Avira instead, and definitely not Norton! The choice does matter

Re: NORTON WORKS! Direct Attack On My Computer

Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:05 pm

Norton was useless for me. What do you think of the Microsoft security system or Trend Micro Titanium?

Re: NORTON WORKS! Direct Attack On My Computer

Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:16 pm

I disagree on that, most computers face the same type of threats. You have to evaluate what you are most susceptible to and choose the right antivirus for the situation. If you browse the net a lot then malware is a large problem so choosing MSE wouldnt be an option, choose G-data or Avira instead, and definitely not Norton! The choice does matter


Most computers do face the same type of threats yes, I think you're just stating the same thing I did. I'm only making the distinction for security systems that do not cater to the civilian market.

You should know also that a lot of viruses are written that target specific types of systems. I am not an expert in computer security but I do know that security systems in servers, large businesses are very different, even though in principle it's the same, detect->neutralise.

It's like the virus that brought down the Iranian nuclear facility system, you don't see the virus running around on home computers do you? Whatever security system they would be running is completely different to anything you'd obtain in the civilian world.

I browse the web a lot and use MSE, and I don't have a problem, never had. In fact, I used to use Comodo earlier, and the only problem I had was that it was rather clunky. Malware largely lies with incompetence. The only time my computer has been compromised by malware was when I let my mum use it. I don't even run as a standard user, I run as administrator 24/7.

I'm looking for where you got that 95% detection figure, can't find it. What I can find on the other hand is that MSE constantly turns up in the best antivirus suites. I am not going to claim MSE is better than G-data or Avira, I haven't every type in the world to say that MSE is the greatest, but as a general recommendation, it definitely is better than using Norton.

Avast has recently made major strides, I'm using Avast on my phone as it doubles as an anti-virus and a lost-phone recovery suite. There's plenty of free things around.

Re: NORTON WORKS! Direct Attack On My Computer

Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:53 pm

rickeap wrote:Norton was useless for me. What do you think of the Microsoft security system or Trend Micro Titanium?


As stated the Microsoft security system is a must it quite simply is THE best free security u can get, u wont notice its running until u need it, if anything tries to get through via browser or u urself downloading it will spring into action.
Trend Micro Titanium haven't used it myself i think theres a fee, if want u free, also take a look at AVG .........

http://www.freenew.net/windows/avg-free ... /68636.htm

nice and clean self updating too ........ btw, bookmark the site link above, the best on the net for freebies !

Re: NORTON WORKS! Direct Attack On My Computer

Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:01 pm

ECC83 wrote:Most computers do face the same type of threats yes, I think you're just stating the same thing I did. I'm only making the distinction for security systems that do not cater to the civilian market.


You said that only non home users had to make a choice between which antivirus they use, thats completely naive.

ECC83 wrote:You should know also that a lot of viruses are written that target specific types of systems. I am not an expert in computer security but I do know that security systems in servers, large businesses are very different, even though in principle it's the same, detect->neutralise.


Being a programmer myself for many years, to me that is pretty much obvious, and they target holes in the programming of these systems, they are different but the viruses, trojans, worms etc are all the same, these represent a risk to a system and that makes up 99.9% of all viruses. Sure there are viruses that specifically target certain highly secure systems but you are talking about that last 0.1% of all viruses.


ECC83 wrote:It's like the virus that brought down the Iranian nuclear facility system, you don't see the virus running around on home computers do you? Whatever security system they would be running is completely different to anything you'd obtain in the civilian world.


You are talking about 2 different situations. the Iranian nuclear facility aint running Windows, OS X or any other mainstream operating system.

ECC83 wrote:I browse the web a lot and use MSE, and I don't have a problem, never had. In fact, I used to use Comodo earlier, and the only problem I had was that it was rather clunky. Malware largely lies with incompetence. The only time my computer has been compromised by malware was when I let my mum use it. I don't even run as a standard user, I run as administrator 24/7.


Having any virus on a system lies with incompetence. Well to be more accurate it usually lies with ignorance or more commonly lack of knowledge. But that is you, not the average user who doesnt know much about the technicalities of how to guard against it. And to the average user, MSE lets through 5% of malware, that is a lot btw

ECC83 wrote:
I'm looking for where you got that 95% detection figure, can't find it. What I can find on the other hand is that MSE constantly turns up in the best antivirus suites. I am not going to claim MSE is better than G-data or Avira, I haven't every type in the world to say that MSE is the greatest, but as a general recommendation, it definitely is better than using Norton.



http://www.av-comparatives.org/comparativesreviews/detection-test
The Av comparatives website, they test every month, i dont trust mainstream sites to tell you the real best products...just like 1and1 were awarded the best hosting company recently...seriously they are one of the worst

Re: NORTON WORKS! Direct Attack On My Computer

Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:14 am

You said that only non home users had to make a choice between which antivirus they use, thats completely naive.

I didn't literally mean that in terms of brands - my point was that home security is more or less the same.

Being a programmer myself for many years, to me that is pretty much obvious, and they target holes in the programming of these systems, they are different but the viruses, trojans, worms etc are all the same, these represent a risk to a system and that makes up 99.9% of all viruses. Sure there are viruses that specifically target certain highly secure systems but you are talking about that last 0.1% of all viruses.

I was wondering when this "I'm a programmer" - "Trust me I'm an engineer" line would rear its head. I don't think it makes any difference if you were a programmer for 170 years, did you work specifically in coding security programs? I've got uncles who have been programming since the late 70's and they wouldn't know the difference between Avast and their arse :lol: - so no, it's not "obvious" just because you've been a programmer. People who program come in different shapes and sizes. If i wanted to, I could become a programmer in embedded systems, which is totally different to writing code for something like Norton.


You are talking about 2 different situations. the Iranian nuclear facility aint running Windows, OS X or any other mainstream operating system.

Yes, I am talking two different situations. That's precisely my point. Viruses are written specifically to target specific types of systems, so the needs of businesses and huge government workings are different to the consumer, how did this point get lost so easily?

Let me put it simply again:

The needs of the general consumer market in terms of brand distinction is NEGLIGIBLE compared to PC security for businesses, governments, military, etc. Happy?

Having any virus on a system lies with incompetence. Well to be more accurate it usually lies with ignorance or more commonly lack of knowledge. But that is you, not the average user who doesnt know much about the technicalities of how to guard against it. And to the average user, MSE lets through 5% of malware, that is a lot btw


http://www.av-comparatives.org/comparativesreviews/detection-test
The Av comparatives website, they test every month, i dont trust mainstream sites to tell you the real best products...just like 1and1 were awarded the best hosting company recently...seriously they are one of the worst


That's a very interesting link, I also noted that Microsoft scored the best for False Alarms.

Did you read this:

"Please consider the false alarm rate when when looking at detection rates, as a product which is prone to false alarms achieves higher scores easily"

Gdata 23, Avira 10, Microsoft 0 - clearly Microsoft is better here and therefore the 5% figure given by them is questionable according to what they said.

Then they go on to say false alarms do not matter for "expert users" - which is rather vague. To my knowledge, the true "experts" make their own security systems and don't run Microsoft Windows or OSX.
Last edited by ECC83 on Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: NORTON WORKS! Direct Attack On My Computer

Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:37 am

Thanks for all the advice

Re: NORTON WORKS! Direct Attack On My Computer

Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:43 pm

ECC83 wrote:
Being a programmer myself for many years, to me that is pretty much obvious, and they target holes in the programming of these systems, they are different but the viruses, trojans, worms etc are all the same, these represent a risk to a system and that makes up 99.9% of all viruses. Sure there are viruses that specifically target certain highly secure systems but you are talking about that last 0.1% of all viruses.

I was wondering when this "I'm a programmer" - "Trust me I'm an engineer" line would rear its head. I don't think it makes any difference if you were a programmer for 170 years, did you work specifically in coding security programs? I've got uncles who have been programming since the late 70's and they wouldn't know the difference between Avast and their arse :lol: - so no, it's not "obvious" just because you've been a programmer. People who program come in different shapes and sizes. If i wanted to, I could become a programmer in embedded systems, which is totally different to writing code for something like Norton.


Just a little condescending, actually 11 or so years professionally, 2 years at university, still programming now, Java, php, javascript, pascal and C is my experience. Dont you think that experience is important when giving advice? I may not have built any part of antivirus software but I do know about how to keep programs secure at an advanced level. So much so that none of the applications I have built have ever been hacked into.

Youd be surprised that most programs arent that different, especially in this day and age. Most use similar principles and methodology, programming patterns may be different between applications which isnt unusual but its much the same. To say antivirus programming and embedded systems are totally different is misleading.

Btw most 1970s programmers cant get past functional programming where its like working with stone tools.

ECC83 wrote:That's a very interesting link, I also noted that Microsoft scored the best for False Alarms.

Did you read this:

"Please consider the false alarm rate when when looking at detection rates, as a product which is prone to false alarms achieves higher scores easily"

Gdata 23, Avira 10, Microsoft 0 - clearly Microsoft is better here and therefore the 5% figure given by them is questionable according to what they said.

Then they go on to say false alarms do not matter for "expert users" - which is rather vague. To my knowledge, the true "experts" make their own security systems and don't run Microsoft Windows or OSX.


"which is prone to false alarms" does not equal 10 false alarms out of thousands of tests!

And when is it better to miss a virus than to let one through ? Id take the chance of 10 false alarms to make sure 4-5% more viruses are found.

Ach well

Re: NORTON WORKS! Direct Attack On My Computer

Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:51 am

Here's a whole bunch of 'em. Except for the ones that consistently perform poorly (McAfee would be in this category), they seem similar.

http://www.asecurelife.com/avast-vs-avg-vs-avira-vs-norton-vs-kaspersky

1) Do you wish to spend a little money? (My copy of 360 was quite reasonable! No monthly fees; just expires in a year.)

If not, choose a free program.

2) Do you have a lot of RAM? If so, it doesn't matter if it uses a lot. If so, get a "light" but good one.

3) Do you like the integrated utilities that keep your machine humming like a top?

If you want a separate backup and other utilities, or don't want them at all, go for something thinner. I prefer to have all the utilities in one place.

4) Does it WORK? I know what I have works. It updates constantly. Now, on my old XP laptop, this was really a drag on the system, but now, it's unnoticeable.

So, that's that. Go by your needs, and make sure it works well generally, and for you OS, and your particular machine.

rjm (avast totally messed up my installation of the old Photoshop on my office computer, and somehow redirected the registry to 4.0, instead of 5.5. {You must have an earlier version for it to even install an upgrade, which is what 5.5 was, many moons ago.} NOT CS5.5, just plain old 5.5, which is all I need there. Now, I have to reinstall it, and I really never find the time for it, and end up pulling 4.0 out of "the sandbox" because it doesn't recognize either one of 'em.)

Also, I'm not a newbie to this: I was using PC Tools on DOS! I used a lot of "bloatware" over the years: "Norton Navigator," which was a file manager shell replacement . . . but you know what? Windows incorporated many of those features!

Re: NORTON WORKS! Direct Attack On My Computer

Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:44 pm

check out this site its a place that test the antivirus programs and see witch are the best http://www.virusbtn.com/vb100/archive/summary

Re: NORTON WORKS! Direct Attack On My Computer

Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:30 pm

rocknrollmusic wrote:check out this site its a place that test the antivirus programs and see witch are the best http://www.virusbtn.com/vb100/archive/summary

Clearly shows Norton getting beat hands down by a free one called Avira.

Re: NORTON WORKS! Direct Attack On My Computer

Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:49 am

Just a little condescending, actually 11 or so years professionally, 2 years at university, still programming now, Java, php, javascript, pascal and C is my experience. Dont you think that experience is important when giving advice? I may not have built any part of antivirus software but I do know about how to keep programs secure at an advanced level. So much so that none of the applications I have built have ever been hacked into.


Well it wasn't my express intention to sound condescending, but no, I don't think it matters as much as you make it out to be. If I consider my scenario where I'm studying electrical engineering. If I specialised in making Analogue Electronics systems, I certainly wouldn't think that I'd be experienced in making Control Systems. Sure I studied some of it, and some of the theory and practice are applicable, but they are completely different even though they are actually a part of the big stream called Electrical Engineering! Experience is very important, and no doubt your advice on using the antivirus systems were very good, we just happened to disagree on whether MSE was good or not, I honestly don't think your experience matters per se in making a decision over MSE.


Given the time and effort, your programs can be broken into. People crack systems that corporations have spent millions, if not billions over the years perfecting, I'm sure whatever you've made can be broken into. Just look at the amount of people who've cracked professional software program on PirateBay. This is not to sound condescending, but it's the truth isn't it?

Youd be surprised that most programs arent that different, especially in this day and age. Most use similar principles and methodology, programming patterns may be different between applications which isnt unusual but its much the same. To say antivirus programming and embedded systems are totally different is misleading.


That's like saying most "electrical systems aren't that different in this day and age", the matter of the fact is, they are. Especially in this day and age when there is so much specialisation happening, software from different fields are like different specialisations in their own right. Of course basics, methodologies and principles remain the same, that's what is taught at universities, but in the real world things are much different.


"which is prone to false alarms" does not equal 10 false alarms out of thousands of tests!

And when is it better to miss a virus than to let one through ? Id take the chance of 10 false alarms to make sure 4-5% more viruses are found.

Ach well


Ha, this is just dependent on how you look at it. If anything, I'd be interpreting false alarms as make a noise when unsure, as opposed to Microsoft heuristic techniques being more sure of what they are making a false alarm about, this is probably because whoever is on the programming team for it is more aware of how their own OS is running, you can drawn your own conclusions on that. But to me it's pretty fair to say that MSE given the data is extremely good. That 5% fail rate is easily accounted to when looking at the false alarm rate which puts it on even ground with the other top systems.


Anyhow, I think that has been a nice argument over anti-virus systems. Guess what? I'm going to now trial Avira in light of this discussion to see how it fits with my system. MSE is great, but I'm going to shop (err...trial) around other free systems.

Re: NORTON WORKS! Direct Attack On My Computer

Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:17 am

promiseland wrote:
rocknrollmusic wrote:check out this site its a place that test the antivirus programs and see witch are the best http://www.virusbtn.com/vb100/archive/summary

Clearly shows Norton getting beat hands down by a free one called Avira.


If you look at this "new member"'s next post, he's a troll/spammer.

rjm (I can't remember the last time I hit that button, but "this post has already been reported"!!)

Re: NORTON WORKS! Direct Attack On My Computer

Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:11 am

rjm wrote:
promiseland wrote:
rocknrollmusic wrote:check out this site its a place that test the antivirus programs and see witch are the best http://www.virusbtn.com/vb100/archive/summary

Clearly shows Norton getting beat hands down by a free one called Avira.


If you look at this "new member"'s next post, he's a troll/spammer.

rjm (I can't remember the last time I hit that button, but "this post has already been reported"!!)

i am not troll/spammer

Re: NORTON WORKS! Direct Attack On My Computer

Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:12 am

rocknrollmusic wrote:
rjm wrote:
promiseland wrote:
rocknrollmusic wrote:check out this site its a place that test the antivirus programs and see witch are the best http://www.virusbtn.com/vb100/archive/summary

Clearly shows Norton getting beat hands down by a free one called Avira.


If you look at this "new member"'s next post, he's a troll/spammer.

rjm (I can't remember the last time I hit that button, but "this post has already been reported"!!)

i am not troll/spammer

If not why then would you post pornographic images on an Elvis Presley forum?