Off Topic Messages

Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Masters

Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:50 am

First, I think it would be insane for anyone to play discs from this collection day-to-day. I'm sure most folks agree.

This is an archival collection that should be preserved and protected.

But of course all of us who bought this collection want to enjoy the music on these discs.

Ideally, we'll all get the music off these discs right the first time and store them away for safe-keeping.

I want to recommend strongly that you consider a program called dbpoweramp, which is far and away the very best program for ensuring a perfect copy of your valuable discs. It also gives you an incredible amount of flexibility in how you convert that music for day-to-day use.

Yes, this program costs money. No, I am not involved in the making of the program, nor do I personally know anyone who is. And, no, I stand to gain nothing from this financially.

I offer this suggestion as someone who has transferred more than 7,000 compact discs from my personal collection without one single, solitary problem -- ever. It was a massive undertaking, but well worth the effort.

This program takes 15 minutes to understand, maybe another 15 minutes to set up, but it will provide you great peace of mind.

It is miles ahead of Exact Audio Copy -- miles and miles. Yes, Exact Audio Copy is free. But I have used both -- a lot -- and dbpoweramp is far more robust, far more versatile and simply far better.

I know this sounds like a cheesy advertisement, but I swear my only motive here is to help my fellow owners of this collection to preserve, protect and enjoy this expensive purchase.

I would recommend doing secure bit-for-bit rips of these discs into lossless FLAC compression with dbpoweramp, then storing away a few copies in safe places. Then you can use dbpoweramp whenever you want to convert the perfectly preserved lossless FLAC files into whatever format you might want, whether that's CD audio or mp3 or anything else you can think of. dbpoweramp will take good care of you.

http://www.dbpoweramp.com/

Don't just trust this collection to your usual iTunes or other standard ripping programs. Don't go straight to mp3 with them. You'll be bound to feel the need then at some point to do it all over again, for one reason or another.

And now, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

;)
Last edited by elvissessions on Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:23 am

elvissessions wrote:I know this sounds like a cheesy advertisement, but I swear my only motive here is to help my fellow owners of this collection to preserve, protect and enjoy this expensive purchase.

We believe you.

However, will anyone really play the set that much? With everything released umpteen times already on various issues, there's really no reason to play this set more than once -- if that many.

Is there?

I'd just as soon mine live a long and happy life....on the shelf.

But, yes, if I were going to listen to this often, I'd copy them using your product....uh...I mean.....the product you recommended.

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:40 am

Well, I hope a big part of getting the set for most folks was to get a refresh of all the masters all in one place at one time.

I already have most of the masters from owning the Franklin Mint sets, but I suspect there will be some folks who have a hodgepodge of collections they're pulling masters from.

This gives them a chance to straighten everything up in an orderly way.

Personally, I am very much already in the post-CD era. When I get a disc, it's like downloading CD-Rom software to my computer. It goes into my music server, and the discs go into storage.

I know some folks aren't quite there yet, but I do think everyone ought to be taking steps to protect this music.

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:08 am

dbpoweramp has been my ripper of choice for ten years now. From time to time I have tried others but nothing is better.

I rip to both FLAC and 320MP3 and store the CD's away in prinstine condition.

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:23 am

elvissessions wrote:First, I think it would be insane for anyone to play discs from this collection day-to-day. I'm sure most folks agree.

This is an archival collection that should be preserved and protected.

But of course all of us who bought this collection want to enjoy the music on these discs.

Ideally, we'll all get the music off these discs right the first time and store them away for safe-keeping.


Elvissessions, though I admire your enthusiasm about this set, and the details you've provided in many
post on this subject, I couldn't disagree more about storing the CD's away for safe keeping.

I think it should be enjoyed, taken care of but enjoyed. This set isn't exactly a Faberge Egg.
And even though I'm not up on the specs as I used to be (I grew up on Stereo Review and Stereophile),
I just don't believe digital copies are as good as the original disc no matter how you copy them. Copy a
copy a million times and get back to me - those who disagree.

Just copy them in case of an accident, but enjoy the original discs. In other words, just play the heck
out of them.

And while all you lucky ones are listening to your pristine sounding discs, I'll be at the wood shop
adding fold out legs to all my Elvis books. It's going to take awhile. Hopefully my good friend Pinkus
will help me out.

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:27 am

A FLAC copy is mathematically identical to the original, and that can be tested ... every single 0 and 1 along the way.

For the obsessive like myself, it's important to ensure a bit-for-bit transfer, and dbpoweramp does that, and again, that can be mathematically confirmed.

Lossless is just that ... no loss.

I agree with everything you say, if we're talking about lossy compression or analog recordings.

But think about it this way ... a word-processing file or an e-mail can be copied a billion times with no changes. Why? Because it's nothing but a row of bits of data to be copied sequentially.

To a computer, a song is no different than an e-mail ... it's just numbers, just data.

People will copy every other sort of software without fear, but for some reason, folks think of songs differently. ... But computers don't.

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:35 am

Do you know about digital jitter? Somewhere down the line that can be introduced.
There's more...but I'm watching Swamp People (History Channel).

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:10 am

Dbpoweramp makes multiple passes at the disc bit-by-bit ... the same method used by EAC but with far more sophistication. Dbpoweramp also used a polynomial code checksum, or cyclic redundancy check, to compare your results with all others who have scanned the discs.

If you compare a disc with the polynomial code checksum in the accurate rip library -- which now has more than 1.6 million pressings cataloged -- and it matches, then you have not only done multiple passes of your own copy of the disc, but you have compared it with other people who have done multiple passes of the disc. If it matches, it matches.

Would you have any reservations about copying, say, a copy of Windows software from drive to drive, perhaps 100 or 1,000 times? Of course not. Because barring some catastrophic error, the computer will read the software bit for bit, copy it and the program will run just as well as the original. This is why Windows spends millions of dollars on copy protection: Because a pirate version of their software -- even a pirated copy of a pirated copy will run just as well as the original.

Now, let's think about this. A computer cannot understand a program if any of the code is dropped. It either reads the code or it doesn't. If there's a single line of code missing, the software will not run.

A song is nothing but a stream of data to the computer. You and I imagine it is something different, but the reality is, it's just a string of 0s and 1s to the computer, and it will either run the "code" correctly or it will not.

If you confirm that your album is a perfect copy, it's a perfect copy.

If you take a FLAC copy, pull it out to a WAV file, invert the signal, lay it against the original track, you will have absolute pure silence. This is audible proof of the math underlying this principle. It's a mathematically perfect copy. In fact, it has to be, as it is nothing but an elaborate mathematical equation.

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:07 am

elvissessions wrote: This is audible proof of the math underlying this principle. It's a mathematically perfect copy. In fact, it has to be, as it is nothing but an elaborate mathematical equation.


But what do your ears tell you?

Are Mobile Fidelity and DCC CD's just hocus pocus?
What about the green felt pen? Wooden bridges
for audio cables, Shun mook magic stones?

If there is no difference at all in the original disc and
the copy please send your Complete Masters discs to
me. I'll play them and enjoy them!

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:27 pm

You seem to believe that the following two strings can sound different:

0001101101000001101110100111000010100110110101110100110000000001000011010011100000011001011001101110
0001101101000001101110100111000010100110110101110100110000000001000011010011100000011001011001101110

These two strings must sound exactly the same. They must sound the same because they ARE exactly the same.

Debating whether 2+2=4 is a waste of time for us and anyone else reading this thread.

Let's not continue.

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:51 pm

I'm a cheap sh*t. I just rip with itunes and put them on cheapo CDR's. And if I ever get this set, I'll put all the tracks in the right order.

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:00 pm

[quote="iplayastrat"][

I'll be at the wood shop
adding fold out legs to all my Elvis books. It's going to take awhile. quote]


:?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:42 pm

I use both dbpoweramp and eac.

db for speed
EAC for accuracy.

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:07 pm

To each their own with copying this set. Personally, I prefer to make CD-R's of each disc, listen to those, and keep the set on the shelf. I just don't imagine myself spending a whole lot of time listening any more than I would with any other set.

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:06 pm

KHoots wrote:To each their own with copying this set. Personally, I prefer to make CD-R's of each disc, listen to those, and keep the set on the shelf. I just don't imagine myself spending a whole lot of time listening any more than I would with any other set.



I'll just stick with enjoying the exact same material on the gorgeoulsy packaged FTD editions, with the addition of enjoying all the extra out-takes as well.
This latest box set wouldn't have to be so worshipped if it was made generally available at a sensible price to the general public like The Beatles and others box sets have been, so that all can enjoy the works of our favourite artist.

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:05 pm

I did the same thing with my copies of both Beatles boxes. It's simply "sensible" practice in this day and age.

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:08 pm

The testing I've seen shows dbpoweramp more accurate than EAC when it comes to damaged or other problem discs.The maker of dbpoweramp is a big fan of EAC, but I think he's gone well beyond what EAC accomplished. Plus you get the incredible toolbox of conversion options and other utility software.

But EAC is a good program, too.

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:26 pm

Thanks for this topic. Because I need to look into something like this. How much roughly elvissessions does this software cost? And basically, how does it work. I'm a bit of an idiot when it comes to all this kind of technology. I understand in basic terms what FLAC is and what mp3 is. But is there a way then I can transfer these songs into my iTunes and then iPod - but also have complete lossless sound files to transfer back to say CD's?

I appreciate any help because I need to figure out the best way to preserve the audio on this set!

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:27 pm

Good Time Charlie wrote:Thanks for this topic. Because I need to look into something like this. How much roughly elvissessions does this software cost? And basically, how does it work. I'm a bit of an idiot when it comes to all this kind of technology. I understand in basic terms what FLAC is and what mp3 is. But is there a way then I can transfer these songs into my iTunes and then iPod - but also have complete lossless sound files to transfer back to say CD's?

I appreciate any help because I need to figure out the best way to preserve the audio on this set!


Spending money on software like DB poweramp is pointless.

Exact Audio Copy is free, and properly configured is the most accurate way of extracting your music.

Did I mention it is free?

As long as your files are original CD sourced FLACs, you have a completely lossless cd.

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:31 pm

All I want is to be able to listen to this set on my iTunes/iPod and also have it backed up in a "lossless" form so if ever one of my Discs breaks, gets lost or any other horrendous scenario, I've got it all there to make another perfect Disc.

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:47 pm

elvissessions wrote:First, I think it would be insane for anyone to play discs from this collection day-to-day. I'm sure most folks agree.

This is an archival collection that should be preserved and protected.

But of course all of us who bought this collection want to enjoy the music on these discs.

Ideally, we'll all get the music off these discs right the first time and store them away for safe-keeping.

I want to recommend strongly that you consider a program called dbpoweramp, which is far and away the very best program for ensuring a perfect copy of your valuable discs. It also gives you an incredible amount of flexibility in how you convert that music for day-to-day use.

Yes, this program costs money. No, I am not involved in the making of the program, nor do I personally know anyone who is. And, no, I stand to gain nothing from this financially.

I offer this suggestion as someone who has transferred more than 7,000 compact from my personal collection without one single, solitary problem -- ever. It was a massive undertaking, but well worth the effort.

This program takes 15 minutes to understand, maybe another 15 minutes to set up, but it will provide you great peace of mind.

It is miles ahead of Exact Audio Copy -- miles and miles. Yes, Exact Audio Copy is free. But I have used both -- a lot -- and dbpoweramp is far more robust, far more versatile and simply far better.

I know this sounds like a cheesy advertisement, but I swear my only motive here is to help my fellow owners of this collection to preserve, protect and enjoy this expensive purchase.

I would recommend doing secure bit-for-bit rips of these discs into lossless FLAC compression with dbpoweramp, then storing away a few copies in safe places. Then you can use dbpoweramp whenever you want to convert the perfectly preserved lossless FLAC files into whatever format you might want, whether that's CD audio or mp3 or anything else you can think of. dbpoweramp will take good care of you.

http://www.dbpoweramp.com/

Don't just trust this collection to your usual iTunes or other standard ripping programs. Don't go straight to mp3 with them. You'll be bound to feel the need then at some point to do it all over again, for one reason or another.

And now, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

;)



Thanks, very interesting. At the moment I use WINDOWS MEDIA PLAYER lossless but am not convinced. let's say I use your recommended software, can I then open that file in media player & play it with no problem? ( I like the playlist options of Media Player & don't want to leave that )

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:51 pm

Windows Media Player can't play flac files, afaik. You need foobar which will play preactically everything.

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:04 pm

TONY wrote:
iplayastrat wrote:[I'll be at the wood shop
adding fold out legs to all my Elvis books. It's going to take awhile.



:?: :?: :?: :?: :?:


Good one. 'Strat!! :lol:

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:40 pm

Dbpoweramp has so much more to offer than EAC ... Really, to think otherwise you must not have seen the program in action.

As to the specifics of using it, it's really rather simple.

As far as the lossless format you use, I do recommend FLAC, but you also could use Windows' or Apple's lossless proprietary formats if you play through Windows Media Player or iTunes, respectively. Dbpoweramp will encode to either of those formats -- and a bazillion others. And you can later convert from one to the other via a couple of very intuitive processes.

Lossless is lossless, so it really doesn't matter. That's the beauty of lossless. However, I find FLAC's open-source background to be appealing as it keeps the codec under development, and I like some of the features it includes.

Don't get too hung up on that part of it, though. You can use whichever one you prefer, and with dbPoweramp or a variety of other programs, you can also switch to another lossless or lossy format any time you like.

Depending on your computer, converting 750 tracks can take a bit of time. Or, especially if you have multi-core processing, it can be insanely fast.

As to setting up dbpoweramp, it used to be a bit more involved, but I find that the latest version is much more appropriate for novices. The default secure rip otions work very well.

To start off with, you simply find a disc that is the most-common, most-likely to have been scanned in many times disc in your collection. You use it to automatically calibrate the program so that it's precisely matched. I won't go into a great bit of detail as what it's doing is so automated. If by chance your first disc isn't in the library of cataloged discs, you move on to the next most-common till you find one.

The Complete Elvis set won't be in accuraterip's catalog yet; it's too new. But I can say in the thousands of discs I transferred I NEVER scanned one in -- NEVER -- that showed an inaccurate rip unless that disc was too badly damaged to rip at all. In those cases, dbpoweramp will chip away at the disc's data, and sometimes by switching drives, I was able to salvage some discs that were in embarrassingly bad condition. But rips of brand-new discs? No problem at all unless there is, God forbid, a manufacturing defect.

One thing dbpoweramp handles better than EAC, in my opinion, is C2 pointers. Dbpoweramp uses c2, the built-in error correction on CDs, to catch about 97 percent of errors that might come through. That means dbpoweramp is really only focusing on those 3 percent of errors on disc. EAC's approach to c2 has a tangled history, in my opinion, but not using it to me is overlooking the first, best and simplest line of defense in avoiding disc errors. Just one man's opinion.

If you're set up for a reasonable number of passes at the disc and you let the program test for other settings step-by-step, then from there on out it's really very simple.

However, it's a bit involved to work step by step through this in a wall of text. There are at least a few of us who probably could handle any questions as they arise. Dbpoweramp also has a great forum where the software's developer and his right hand man answer questions very promptly in general. In my experience, just about every question has been asked, and they're all there on the forum. But I'd certainly be willing to do my best to pitch in as best I can.

The program costs $38, which may be too much for some, but I decided to come right out and recommend it to focus who paid $750 for the box set. If you spent that money, then $38 isn't too much to try to protect that investment in what I believe is the best way possible.

For the general scoop, probably best to go to [url]dbpoweramp.com[/url] and click through the basic links. They'll show you all the features, and you can follow them through to setup and support information, if you like.

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:55 am

Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:
TONY wrote:
iplayastrat wrote:[I'll be at the wood shop
adding fold out legs to all my Elvis books. It's going to take awhile.



:?: :?: :?: :?: :?:


Good one. 'Strat!! :lol:


Thanks bro.