Off Topic Messages

springsteen should stuff it

Wed Apr 30, 2003 5:14 pm

Here we go again,another liberal entertainer "instructing" us how
to act.Bruce Springsteen(BS for short) on his web site scolding
us for taking the dixie chicks to task.
He says their right to free speech has somehow been denied.Well tough
cookies BS!There are consequences to all of our actions.If I go to
my job and make derrogatory racial remarks,I will have to suffer the consequenses.Same with the D.Cs.Personally,I was against the war,
but there is a right way and wrong way to go about making a
statement.They could have simply stated they were against the war,
and very little would have happened.But to show disrespect for the
president was uncalled for.

Wed Apr 30, 2003 6:24 pm

We need to be careful here JB or this thread can quickly turn political and get deleted. On the one hand, I strongly disliked what Natalie Maines' said and how & where she said it. But on the other hand I have to support her right to say what she said, no matter how much I may dislike what she said and disagree with her viewpoint. One thing that is really troubling me is that it seems the Dixie Chicks are becoming demonized over this issue! People are even holding rallys to publicly stomp on there cd's! This kind of activity comes a little too close to the Nazi book burning for my liking. I think this may have been Springsteen's point!

Wed Apr 30, 2003 6:47 pm

Springsteen: "If war is the answer, I think we ask the wrong question"

Wed Apr 30, 2003 8:24 pm

Pete Dube wrote:We need to be careful here JB or this thread can quickly turn political and get deleted. On the one hand, I strongly disliked what Natalie Maines' said and how & where she said it. But on the other hand I have to support her right to say what she said, no matter how much I may dislike what she said and disagree with her viewpoint. One thing that is really troubling me is that it seems the Dixie Chicks are becoming demonized over this issue! People are even holding rallys to publicly stomp on there cd's! This kind of activity comes a little too close to the Nazi book burning for my liking. I think this may have been Springsteen's point!
The people who are stomping on their CDs and whatever have every right to do that.BS has every right to say what he said.And you and I have every right to say what we say.
The point is,Springsteen and others have tried to make it seem like the government is setting this up.Let me put this another way;the same people who are rushing to defend the DCs were absoloutly silent when the homos tried to get Dr. Lauras show cancelled.Their seems to be a slight double standard.

Wed Apr 30, 2003 10:04 pm

"liberals", "homo's" Well, I guess we know what jb stands for: Jeb Bush.


Tom

Thu May 01, 2003 1:42 am

A very hearty LOL!

jeff R

Thu May 01, 2003 3:52 am

I agree that everyone has the right to say what they like. People have the right to react to what they say. Therefore people should think about what they say and be happy to suffer the consequences. :lol:

Thu May 01, 2003 4:46 am

I think whoever thought up the idea we should have an off topic board should stuff it, it only lets this kind of stupidity to blossom.

Thu May 01, 2003 11:02 am

Hey Kylan that is a little harsh ain't it. I think the off topic board is great. Though the political debate is against the rules. Until its deleted though, I fully show support for the DC cd stomping parties. Sadly, it is really mor promotion for them!

Thu May 01, 2003 11:03 am

Freedom of speech...absolutely. Freedom to also take serious reprocussions.

Thu May 01, 2003 11:59 am

I was going to refrain from this thread, but a stupid comment has been made and I will not let it go. (thank you Tom for pointing it out)

Before I get to that, let me first state that I disagree with the Ditsy Chicks and I have the right to stomp on their CD's, even burn them if I want to. No GOVERNMENT is silencing the Chicks, it is the people. Using a steamroller might be a bit silly, but so is equating that spectacle to Nazi GOVERNMENT-sponsored book burnings.

That said, jb, your statement concerning "homos" was very ignoarant and narrow-minded. I'm sorry, but saying that "homos" tried to silence Dr. Laura is about the stupidist thing I have heard. Just because the left-wing organization GLAAD was against Dr. Laura does not mean there was some "homo" conspiracy to silence her. I listen to Dr. Laura quite a bit and often enjoy her show, but she was just whining when she said she was being "attacked", just like some are whining that the Chicks are being "attacked". Both Laura and the Chicks were wrong to try to solicit sympathy and need to grow up and realize that when you say something people don't like, others have a right to speak against you and yes even write to businesses that sponsor radio shows/concert tours and threaten to boycott and/or protest those sponsors. The sponsors in turn have a right to listen to the CONSUMERS and then pull out of sponsorship agreements that might harm their sales, sales that they were attempting to increase by their support of the entertainers. Radio stations also have a right to listen to the people's requests that songs NOT be played by the chicks and have a right to decide if they weant to carry the Dr. Laura show or not.

As for this thread, jb, you need to read the guidelines of this web site which include not having political debates and no personal attacks.

FECC has not had to delete a thread yet, and I hope they go ahead and KEEP this one. Now that you know the rules, jb, I'm sure you won't attempt to start another political debate, will you?

Thu May 01, 2003 5:30 pm

scotch wrote:I was going to refrain from this thread, but a stupid comment has been made and I will not let it go. (thank you Tom for pointing it out)

Before I get to that, let me first state that I disagree with the Ditsy Chicks and I have the right to stomp on their CD's, even burn them if I want to. No GOVERNMENT is silencing the Chicks, it is the people. Using a steamroller might be a bit silly, but so is equating that spectacle to Nazi GOVERNMENT-sponsored book burnings.

That said, jb, your statement concerning "homos" was very ignoarant and narrow-minded. I'm sorry, but saying that "homos" tried to silence Dr. Laura is about the stupidist thing I have heard. Just because the left-wing organization GLAAD was against Dr. Laura does not mean there was some "homo" conspiracy to silence her. I listen to Dr. Laura quite a bit and often enjoy her show, but she was just whining when she said she was being "attacked", just like some are whining that the Chicks are being "attacked". Both Laura and the Chicks were wrong to try to solicit sympathy and need to grow up and realize that when you say something people don't like, others have a right to speak against you and yes even write to businesses that sponsor radio shows/concert tours and threaten to boycott and/or protest those sponsors. The sponsors in turn have a right to listen to the CONSUMERS and then pull out of sponsorship agreements that might harm their sales, sales that they were attempting to increase by their support of the entertainers. Radio stations also have a right to listen to the people's requests that songs NOT be played by the chicks and have a right to decide if they weant to carry the Dr. Laura show or not.

As for this thread, jb, you need to read the guidelines of this web site which include not having political debates and no personal attacks.

FECC has not had to delete a thread yet, and I hope they go ahead and KEEP this one. Now that you know the rules, jb, I'm sure you won't attempt to start another political debate, will you?
Scotch;
Took your post ti heart,and realize that my message was way off key.My intent was not to start a political debate,but rather a statement of regret that as compared to Elvis,many entertainers dont know when to shut up.As I said,my intent wasnt to start a political debate,but I dont blame anyone for thinking that.And,I truly regret the homo statement,and anyone
offended by this remark will,I hope,accept my apology.
As for the liberal remark,no,jb dosent stand for Jeb Bush(good shot,Tom).
Im a centrist democrat,and was against the damn war from the beggining.
Im no "Bushie",but feel that many stars hurt the peace movement by their sometimes silly statements.
Again,please forgive a hurried,and not well thought out thread,as thats where the problems started.Thanks and God bless.

Thu May 01, 2003 5:39 pm

Scotch,
You are right on the money with your assessment. Thank you!!

Kylan,
As usual, you are real bucket of chuckles and quite the ray of sunshine in an otherwise dreary day. Could you be any more negative??? So, you would rather have this off topic stuff right in the middle of the regular board? I, for one, am very thankful for FECC having this section and, despite your perky personality, look forward to seeing what others have to say about "off topic" stuff from time to time.

jb,
Welcome back to the flock. We were worried about you there for awhile.


Finally,
Does anyone actually think that the DC's care if their CD's are being stomped, runover by a steamroller, or used for skeet shooting? Of course they don't. Why??, Because they are already paid for. They and the record company already have their money so why would they give a crap what you do with them after you buy them. This has always amazed me. As Genesim said above "sadly, it is really more promotion for them!" Exactly right.

Tom

To Tom!

Thu May 01, 2003 7:17 pm

"as usual, a real bucket of chuckles" lol that was good Tom! made me chuckle actually, laughed pretty good! lol ahhh Tom Tom Tom, going back to being a pick and chooser again? hehehe u did get that explanation of what a pick and chooser is right? I explained on the old mb. If u didnt get it, ill be happy to go over it again! :wink:

Thu May 01, 2003 7:29 pm

Well, I'm afraid you are going to have to enlighten me, once again, as to what a "pick and chooser" is. You see, on this board, just like the old one, I try to avoid reading your posts as they are so damned depressing. Have you ever been happy about anything??? I thought that we had gotten you to loosen up a bit, but I guess that didn't last.

Tom (pick and chooser)

Thu May 01, 2003 7:34 pm

Ok this is it! a pick and chooser like yourself is someone who picks a post where I have to get ugly on that rare occasion lol and on that post alone without looking at all the other ones ive made on the all elvis side and the ones on here too and branding me as a bucket of chuckles and never happy, always negative! not fair Tom!!! u will work on doing better wont ya? :)

Thu May 01, 2003 8:29 pm

Oh yeah, that! Hey, I just call 'em as I see 'em. Nevertheless, if you say that you are not the negative person that I and others perceive you to be, then I will certainly accept that and give you the benefit of the doubt. I must tell you, though, that I have found that with most folks on this board perception is reality. This, of course, does not apply in curtis' case, however. :lol:


Tom

Thu May 01, 2003 9:16 pm

jb wrote: Scotch;
Took your post ti heart,and realize that my message was way off key.My intent was not to start a political debate,but rather a statement of regret that as compared to Elvis,many entertainers dont know when to shut up.As I said,my intent wasnt to start a political debate,but I dont blame anyone for thinking that.And,I truly regret the homo statement,and anyone
offended by this remark will,I hope,accept my apology.
As for the liberal remark,no,jb dosent stand for Jeb Bush(good shot,Tom).
Im a centrist democrat,and was against the damn war from the beggining.
Im no "Bushie",but feel that many stars hurt the peace movement by their sometimes silly statements.
Again,please forgive a hurried,and not well thought out thread,as thats where the problems started.Thanks and God bless.


jb, apology accepted, and I agree with you that Tom's Jeb Bush comment was pretty lame. :lol:

Tom, thanks for the support. I'm with you on your Graceland project, by the way. How does the song go? "I saw the light"

Thu May 01, 2003 9:41 pm

Ahhh, lame but funny.

Tom

Thu May 01, 2003 11:56 pm

Just some comments -
I completely agree that the folks holding anti-Dixie Chicks rallys and stomping their cd's are excercising THEIR right to free speech. I never suggested otherwise. Scotch: you are correct to point out the difference between the Government sponsored Nazi book burnings and private citizens holding public rallys in which they destroy Dixie Chicks cd's. I was fully aware of the difference when I made my original post. Very astute of you to pick up on it, I applaud you. However, the point I tried to make in my original post didn't concern the who, but rather the what: the willful destruction of art. That is the common denominator in my Nazi analogy that I find troubling. It's one thing to refuse to buy their cd's, throw the one's you may already own in the trash, request radio stations not play their music, and boycott their concerts. But to destroy art en mass to punish the artist(s) I have grave misgivings about that. The other thing I mentioned in my post was how the DC's seem to have been demonized over this. They seem to have become the focal point and "whipping boy" of those who take issue with the anti-war faction. Granted this is the consequence of Ms. Maines statements. But have not others also made anti-Bush statements: Michael Moore; Sean Penn; Tim Robbins & Susan Sarandon; Martin Sheen? And should those consequences also include personal threats against the DC's and damage to their private property? Now I don't mean to come off as a DC's apologist, and as I stated in my previous post I disliked Ms. Maines comments and disagreed with how she went about making them, but there are other things taking place that I find troubling and that I must question.

Fri May 02, 2003 4:36 am

I don't take the view that busting some CD's is destroying art. The albums are still available and still there for anyone who wants them. So the art is still available.

pandoras box

Fri May 02, 2003 10:16 am

I promose one thing;Ill never open this pandoras box again!!!

Sat May 03, 2003 6:34 am

Next time, I suggest you open a <u>book</u>. That might help.

This article might further enlighten your nimble mind:

A confederacy of amnesiacs
Jon Carroll
Friday, May 2, 2003
©2003 San Francisco Chronicle Page D - 18

URL: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 291098.DTL


Let us wander together back to that golden time we like to call 2002. The Evil One, as officially identified by the White House, was Osama bin Laden. The government had sworn to take him "dead or alive." Most Americans thought that was a good idea because he had sent the planes into the World Trade Center and then bragged about it.

Bin Laden was in Afghanistan, protected by the nutso mullahs of the Taliban. Some of us worried about bombing an entire nation just to get bin Laden and his henchmen, but omelets and eggs and blah blah blah. Besides, we promised to rebuild Afghanistan after we kicked out the Taliban and captured bin Laden.

Later that year, it became clear that bin Laden had escaped our net. It also became clear that we were going to have neither the will nor the resources to rebuild Afghanistan. Also, the Taliban were not wiped out, they were merely hiding out.

You'd think some of this would raise some questions about broken promises, but by that time the focus was on the next Evil One, Saddam Hussein, and his weapons of mass destruction. How could we worry about Afghanistan (no longer a threat to us) when Hussein was there building nukes and anthrax bombs and God only knew what horrors in his secret labs.

The failure of the U.N. inspectors to find said labs was put down to their own typically European ineptitude (what kind of name is "Hans Blix," anyway?) plus the well-known craftiness of Hussein.

So we bombed another nation into submission; at this point, we pretty much have the power to bomb anyone into submission, although some of them, like North Korea or Israel, might do some bombing of their own first, which would not be good around election time.

And now it is May of 2003 and Saddam Hussein is just as alive as Osama bin Laden, the budget for the war on terror has been cut and shaved and generally abandoned (World Trade Center -- yesterday's news), and those secret Weapons of Mass Destruction have still not shown up.

Since Hussein did not use them in his fight for survival against the invading infidels, it might be inferred that he did not have them to use. But perhaps he pulled the crafty double switch "You expect me to use them, so I won't" thing just to make President Bush look bad.

But we're forgetting about that too. The administration is now downplaying the whole WMD thing, calling it "a matter of emphasis." We're now talking about freeing the Iraqi people, which is of course a swell thing, but if we're in the freeing-people business, I have a little list of countries that need it even more.

But we have done the important thing: We have revealed to a breathless world the secret contracts let to Halliburton and Bechtel before the war even started. Oh, and the thing with Dick Cheney and Halliburton: just a coincidence. George Shultz and Bechtel: just a coincidence. And it really, really is not about the oil. Forget the oil. Not about the oil.

If we had an opposition party in this nation, someone might have protested this serial amnesia. But the Democrats have decided that they support our troops, which apparently means supporting the president, even when he changes his story.

Then there's always the amazing changeable tax cut, a panacea that works in good times and in bad times, that provides growth (or stability) and stimulates (or cools down) the economy. Because wherever Hussein and bin Laden are, whatever hospitals do or do not get rebuilt, it's important for rich people to have more money. That's one thing the administration will always remember.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
We need to invade just one more country before the 2004 elections. France?

Sat May 03, 2003 6:52 am

*yawn*>Doc...


for further comment, see above post in thread already made by yours truly.

Sat May 03, 2003 11:52 am

(Just to make sure this forbidden topic goes out with a bang)


George W. Bush Resume

Past work experience:

Ran for congress and lost.

Produced a Hollywood slasher B movie.

Bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas, company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.

Bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using tax-payer money. Biggest move: Traded Sammy Sosa to the Chicago White Sox.

With fathers help (and his name) was elected Governor of Texas.

Accomplishments:
Changed pollution laws for power and oil companies and made Texas the most polluted state in the Union.
Replaced Los Angeles with Houston as the most smog ridden city in America.
Cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas government to the tune of billions in borrowed money.
Set record for most executions by any Governor in American history.
Became president after losing the popular vote by over 500,000 votes, with the help of my fathers appointments to the Supreme Court.

Accomplishments as president:

Attacked and took over two countries.

Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury.

Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.

Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.

Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.

First president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.

First president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.

First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history.

After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in US history.

Set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips than any other president in US history.

In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job.

Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in US history.

Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period.

Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.

Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television.

Signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any president in US history.

Presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.

Presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.

Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.

Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest me (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind. (http://www.hyperreal.org/~dana/marches/)

Dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history.

My presidency is the most secretive and un-accountable of any in US history.

Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. (the 'poorest' multi-millionaire, Condoleeza Rice has an Chevron oil tanker named after her).

First president in US history to have all 50 states of the Union simultaneously go bankrupt.

Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world.

First president in US history to order a US attack and military occupation of a sovereign nation.

Created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States.

Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in US history.

First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the human rights commission.

First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the elections monitoring board.

Removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US history.

Rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.

Withdrew from the World Court of Law.

Refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.

First president in US history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 US elections).

All-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.

My biggest life-time campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).

Spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US history.

First president in US history to unilaterally attack a sovereign nation against the will of the United Nations and the world community.

First president to run and hide when the US came under attack (and then lied saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)

First US president to establish a secret shadow government.

Took the biggest world sympathy for the US after 911, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).

With a policy of 'dis-engagement' created the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.

Fist US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.

First US president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the US than their immediate neighbor, North Korea.

Changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.

Set all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated US law by not selling huge investments in corporations bidding for government contracts.

Failed to fulfill my pledge to get Osama Bin Laden 'dead or alive'.

Failed to capture the anthrax killer who tried to murder the leaders of our country at the United States Capitol building. After 18 months I have no leads and zero suspects.

In the 18 months following the 911 attacks I have successfully prevented any public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States.

Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US history.

In a little over two years created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided the US has ever been since the civil war.

Entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.

Records and References:

At least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine (Texas driving record has been erased and is not available).

AWOL from National Guard and Deserted the military during a time of war.

Refuse to take drug test or even answer any questions about drug use.

All records of my tenure as governor of Texas have been spirited away to my fathers library, sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.

All records of any SEC investigations into my insider trading or bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.

All minutes of meetings for any public corporation I served on the board are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.

Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my VP) attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public review.

For personal references please speak to my daddy or uncle James Baker (They can be reached at their offices of the Carlyle Group for war-profiteering.)[/u]