Off Topic Messages

Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:35 am

And the same guy who when asked about the righteousness of assassinating Tony Blair in a suicide bombing assured all potential madmen: ""Yes, it would be morally justified."

Pardon me if I look elsewhere for moral and geopolitical direction, thank you.

Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:54 pm

Well, I don´t care a rat´s a** what he´s been saying about Blair or Bush in the past, the fact is he´s right in this clip according to me and millions of others around the world.


Sincerely MB280E

Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:44 pm

I suppose the terrorists that tried to blow up planes in London this morning are right too, MB280E??
Would it be "morally justified"?


Javier

Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:38 pm

Don´t be stupid now javilu!


Sincerely MB280E

Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:03 pm

George Galloway is a lunatic. No doubt he will be soon defending the terrorist scum who attempted to blow up those planes this morning. He is best mates with all of these islamic fundamenalist nutjobs.

Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:49 am

MB280E wrote:Well, I don´t care a rat´s a** what he´s been saying about Blair or Bush in the past, the fact is he´s right in this clip according to me and millions of others around the world.


Sincerely MB280E


I didn't realize that once millions of people believed bullshit it became fact.

I wonder why the world didn't become flat when millions believed it??

Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:50 am

I do think Americans and Israelis do need to pay attention to world opinion on this conflict. I'm troubled by some who are quick not to see how bad this thing is going and that it's not something to cheer about, if not condemn.

The thing for me is someone who skeptical about this rather one-sided coziness that the USA has taken with Israel (and as refreshingly provocative as Galloway can be at moments), I can't hold truck with anyone who's not a hard-ass on fundamentalist Islamo-fascists.

"Can Islam Be Saved From Barbarism ?"
http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/v ... ight=islam

That's what we're dealing with. (See today's news... :roll: )

The key is, are we breeding more this way? I think we are.

Again, I am distressed by all of it and am no partisan either way - short of being a patriotic American citizen who would like to see us tend to our own garden again - as well as be vigilent and a good world citizen.

That's a hard balancing act. I think we've fully embraced the "Global cop" metaphor...along with our deputies.

I do think we need (in the USA) to get real about these utopian ideas of letting anyone and everyone come to "visit" as "students" and or to bring their families here. Talk about sleeper cells...!

Don't get me started on our idiotic fear of being accused of "ethnic profiling", which is just good police work. That's the key thing that has kept us (knock knock) from an encore stateside.

Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:09 am

[quote="Scatter
I didn't realize that once millions of people believed bullshit it became fact.
[/quote]


You must be the best example of that fact.


Sincerely MB280E

Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:01 am

Is there no common ground betwen MB280E and Scatter, presumably both of Western stock? :shock:

Just out of curiousity, MB280E, what do you think about the scourge of radical Islam or "Jihadism" as Scatter rightly put it elsewhere?

Just a lot of trumped-up garbage or a real problem?

Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:44 am

MB280E wrote:[quote="Scatter
I didn't realize that once millions of people believed bullshit it became fact.



You must be the best example of that fact.


Sincerely MB280E[/quote]

Funny........you come on this thread with a ream of unsubstantiated opinion and unmitigated ignorance, use discredited George Galloway as your support for your imbecility, and yet claim that I am the one who is BSing.

You've thoroughly embarrassed yourself already, and destroyed your own credibility in the process. Pity you are the only one who doesn't yet realize it.

I'm perfectly willing to go on humiliating you if you so choose, but frankly it's so easy that I'm growing bored with it.

Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:31 pm

Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:Is there no common ground betwen MB280E and Scatter, presumably both of Western stock? :shock:

Just out of curiousity, MB280E, what do you think about the scourge of radical Islam or "Jihadism" as Scatter rightly put it elsewhere?

Just a lot of trumped-up garbage or a real problem?



There seems not to be any Greg.

Radical Islam, right wing or fundamentalist Christians and/or Zionism; they are all dangerous. You should read my comments after the last London attack to see that I most certainly don´t support these people. They are all present in world society because we all let them be here.


Sincerely MB280E

Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:37 pm

Scatter wrote:You've thoroughly embarrassed yourself already, and destroyed your own credibility in the process. Pity you are the only one who doesn't yet realize it.[/color]



Hahah, yeah, according to you I have. :roll:


Sincerely MB280E

Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:07 pm

MB280E wrote:
Scatter wrote:You've thoroughly embarrassed yourself already, and destroyed your own credibility in the process. Pity you are the only one who doesn't yet realize it.[/color]



Hahah, yeah, according to you I have. :roll:


Sincerely MB280E


Acording to me too. Maybe when these nuts blow a plane going to your town you'll think a bit different?

Hezbolla comitted 2 terrorist atacks here in Buenos Aires. In 1992 they blew the Israeli embassy and in 1994 they blew AMIA, a jweish institution to help the poor. Buildings were destroyed and more than 100 innocent people died.

I have seen it, I lost a friend and I still think you don't know what you're talking about.

Regards

Javier

Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:50 pm

javilu wrote:Maybe when these nuts blow a plane going to your town you'll think a bit different? Javier


They probably will someday, but I can´t really see how that´s gonna make me change my mind or think differently about them. Have I said that I support those kind of acts? Didn´t I just write that I despies every fundamentalist? Well, I do, and that goes for Islamists, Christian and/or Zionist fundamentalists. The world is full of them.


Sincerely MB280E

Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:24 am

MB280E wrote:Radical Islam, right wing or fundamentalist Christians and/or Zionism; they are all dangerous.


Is it accurate to conflate all major religions this way? Never mind that secularism has its own body counts over the years...)

It's clear to me that the real scourge today is Jihadist Islam, not to take other extremists off the hook...

Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:35 am

Hey MB.........the secular humanist/atheist crowd you belong to has murdered more people in the 20th century alone than any religion you point your finger at in all of history..........


The Greatest Killer

The 20th Century has been the bloodiest century in all of history. And humanism has proven to be the most destructive religion of all time. Far more people have been killed in the name of atheism than by all other religions combined.

Historian Paul Johnson has observed that ”the 20th Century state has proved itself the great killer of all time.” The 20th Century has seen the worst atrocities ever committed. The word ”genocide”, a new term coined in the 20th Century, describes what has occurred repeatedly in secular humanist states - which had first disarmed their populations.

The Fruit of Atheism

The triumph of secular humanism with its atheism and situation ethics has led to the rise of gangster statesmen such as Vladimir Lenin, Joseph Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, Fidel Castro, Pol Pot, Robert Mugabe and many more like them.

At least 180 million people have been killed by secular governments in the 20th Century. And that is a very conservative estimate. We are not here talking about people who have died in wars caused by secular humanist states, because that would massively increase the body count. No, over 180 million people have been killed by their own secular humanist atheistic governments in the 20th Century. The greatest threat to life in the 20th Century was not firearm accidents, or crime, or even wars! More people were killed by their own governments in peace time than were killed by foreign invaders in war time.

Joseph Stalin was responsible for killing over 40 million people. Joseph Stalin closed down over 48 000 churches, and attempted the liquidation of the entire Christian Church.

Similarly, communist dictator of China Mao Tse Tung launched the Great Proletariat Cultural Revolution, ”History’s most systematic attempt ever, by a single nation, to eradicate and destroy Christianity…” Mao was responsible for killing about 72 million people.

The communist takeover of Cambodia in 1975 resulted in the death of up to 3 million people - a full third of the total population. When we add to these the death toll of communist regimes in Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Afghanistan, Ethiopia, Angola, Mozambique, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Cuba, and Zimbabwe, the body count is staggering.

The terrifying thing about secular humanist states is that there is no authority above the state to which one can make an appeal. The concept of ”inalienable rights” endowed by a Creator are of course impossible in a secular state. If the state itself is the highest authority, then there are no limits to the abuses and oppression that unrestrained human nature is capable of. The humanist state inevitably leads to tyranny and despotism.

The publication of The Black Book of Communism created a sensation. First published in French and later translated into English, the Black Book is a scholarly, detailed account of the crimes of communism, starting with the Russian Revolution and continuing through Eastern Europe, Red China, North Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Ethiopia, Mozambique, Angola and Afghanistan.

At almost 900 pages long, the Black Book’s exhaustive indictment of communism is all the more compelling because all six of its authors were once communists. They are researchers, professors and journalists associated with the Paris-based Centre for the Study of History and Sociology of Communism. The editor of the Black Book of Communism, Stephane Courtois, is also the editor of the Communisme magazine.

As the foreword declares: ”Ten years ago, the authors of the Black Book would have refused to believe what they now write…” However, their ”exploration of the Soviet archives…” forced them, out of a ”duty of remembrance” to the millions of victims murdered under Marxist regimes, to ”spare a little compassion for the victims of the inhumanity so long meted out by so many of its own partisans.”

Their intention was that the Black Book serve as both history and as a memorial to those victims whose very memory had been wiped out.

In his introduction, Stephane Courtois declares: ”The fact remains that our century has outdone its predecessors in its bloodthirstiness…indeed (communism) occupies one of the most violent and most significant places of all…”

The Bitter Harvest

The Tuol Sleng prison in Cambodia, a former school, was one of the worst centres for torture and execution. Each prisoner - every man, woman and child - was photographed before being cruelly executed. (Photo Reza / Sygma)

The Black Book indicts the Soviet Union’s communist leaders with the following crimes (amongst many others):

• The execution (without trial) of tens of thousands of hostages and prisoners and the murder of hundreds of thousands of workers and peasants in Russia from 1918 to 1922 under Vladimir Lenin.

• Deliberately destroying all food and crops so as to starve to death 5 million people in Russia in 1922.

•The extermination of the Cossacks in 1920.

•The liquidation of 690 000 people in the great purge of 1937 - 38.

•The destruction of 4 million Ukrainians and 2 million other people in the man-made and systematically perpetrated dekulakisation famine of 1932 - 1933.

The Black Book presents a very conservative estimate of the number of civilians murdered by Marxist regimes based on the Marxist regime’s own records: 20 million in the USSR; 65 million in Red China; 1 million in Vietnam; 2 million in North Korea; 2 million in Cambodia; 1,5 million in Afghanistan, and so on. The Black Book of Communism documents that, according to the communist regimes’ own archives, the total death toll is at least 100 million people killed by communist governments between 1917 and 1991.

”These crimes tend to fit a recognisable pattern…the pattern includes execution by…firing squads, hanging, drowning, battering, and, in certain cases, gassing, poisoning or ’car accidents’; destruction of the population by starvation, through man-made famine, the withholding of food, or both; deportation, through which death can occur in transit (either through physical exhaustion or through confinement in an enclosed space)…or through forced labour (exhaustion, illness, hunger, cold)…Thus in the name of an ideological belief system were tens of millions of innocent victims systematically butchered.”

The foreword of The Black Book declares: ”Communism has been the great story of the 20th Century. Bursting into history from the most unlikely corner of Europe amid the trauma of World War I, in the wake of the cataclysm of 1939 - 1945 it made a giant leap westward…and an even greater one eastward to the China Seas. With this feat…it had come to rule a third of mankind and seemed poised to advance indefinitely. For seven decades it haunted world politics, polarising opinion between those who saw it as the socialist end of history and those who considered it as history’s most total tyranny.”

With socialist fables of their ”worker’s paradise” now consigned to what Trotsky called ”the ash heap of history”, it has to be admitted that the secular humanist state has been ”a tragedy of planetary dimensions…the communist record offers the most colossal case of political carnage in history.”

As The Black Book documents, communist states did not merely commit criminal acts, ”they were criminal enterprises in their very essence, on principle, so to speak, they ruled lawlessly, by violence and without regard for human life.” What is also remarkable is that these atrocities were committed by regimes who claimed that they were building ”a worker’s paradise”, heaven on earth. However, rather than delivering paradise, all communism succeeded in was creating hell on earth.

There is a danger that as we list the statistics and read the mind-numbing numbers of the victims of secular states, we can be hardened. As Joseph Stalin observed: ”The death of one person is a tragedy, but the death of millions is just a statistic.” But we need to remind ourselves that these were real people, and whole families, that were maimed, mutilated and murdered.

Terror as a means of education in Vietnam: the execution of a"counter revolutionary" provides the opportunity to reinforce a political and
social system. (Photo Coll. Doan Van Toai)

If we were to add to the number of those victims murdered by their own secular/atheistic government in the 20th Century, the pre-born babies who have been killed by abortion, and those old and sick people killed by euthanasia, in secular states, the death toll would approach one billion people. That is 1000 million victims killed by secular states in the 20th Century alone.

The bitter harvest of atheism proves that humanism is the most destructive religion in all of history. The secular state is the greatest killer ever, and secular states have made the 20th Century the bloodiest century of all time.

Peter Hammond is the author of In The Killing Fields of Mozambique, Holocaust in Rwanda and Faith Under Fire In Sudan

So, since you claim you hate all religions because of the wars/deaths they cause, I suppose you will now have to hate the atheists that have proven many,many times more bloodthirsty (that is, as long as you wish to avoid the tag of blatant hypcrite).

I do not expect this of course.........you show no inclination or ability for the sort of rational thought which would make that logical outcome unavoidable.

Don't worry though.............you still have George Galloway to do your "thinking" (if it can reasonably be called that) for you
:lol:

Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:38 pm

Scatter wrote:[color=blue]Hey MB.........the secular humanist/atheist crowd you belong to has murdered more people in the 20th century alone than any religion you point your finger at in all of history.....

[color=blue]So, since you claim you hate all religions because of the wars/deaths they cause, I suppose you will now have to hate the atheists that have proven many,many times more bloodthirsty (that is, as long as you wish to avoid the tag of blatant hypcrite).



:smt015 :smt015 :smt015 Are you finished? I bet you wrote all of that yourself... :smt042 I removed it simply because I just couldn´t see it fit the context really. And btw you´re of course aware of the fact that you live in America...you should not forget that when talking about the murdering states of this earth.

The big difference between you and me Scatter is the fact that I am more than able to do my own thinking. Did I say "I HATE ALL RELIGIONS"...? Hmmm, really...? Seems to me it is you that is painting a picture of me as you see fit so that you can keep up writing all this dribble about the good guys (that of course being the US and perhaps Israel) and the bad guys (all the others who see things from a different perspective). There´s no need to comment on that really.


Sincerely MB280E

Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:32 am

MB280E wrote:
Scatter wrote:Hey MB.........the secular humanist/atheist crowd you belong to has murdered more people in the 20th century alone than any religion you point your finger at in all of history.....

[color=blue]So, since you claim you hate all religions because of the wars/deaths they cause, I suppose you will now have to hate the atheists that have proven many,many times more bloodthirsty (that is, as long as you wish to avoid the tag of blatant hypcrite).



:smt015 :smt015 :smt015 Are you finished? I bet you wrote all of that yourself...


[color=blue]
Now MB........ If you would have bothered to get your mommy to help you with the big words, you would have seen that I cited the author and gave him due credit. Next time I'll be certain to include pictures so it will be easier to hold your attention.

I removed it simply because I just couldn´t see it fit the context really. And btw you´re of course aware of the fact that you live in America...you should not forget that when talking about the murdering states of this earth.

Why am I not shocked???Of course you are too dense to see the correlation........I leave it to the other members who can perceive the glaringly obvious.

The big difference between you and me Scatter is the fact that I am more than able to do my own thinking.

Oh really.........is that why you cite discredited droolers like George Galloway, ignorantly believing he bolsters your credibility???

Is that why you have come to a battle of minds completely disarmed, devoid of facts, startlingly ignorant of both history and current events, and unable to refute the facts presented to you??


If this is an example of your "thinking", you should thank God that Europe has such an all-encompassing welfare state. Otherwise, you'd starve

Did I say "I HATE ALL RELIGIONS"...? Hmmm, really...?

Quote MB280

Didn´t I just write that I despies every fundamentalist? Well, I do, and that goes for Islamists, Christian and/or Zionist fundamentalists. The world is full of them.

Ah yes........your love of religion shines through :lol . BTW........do you also "despies" (sic) fundamentalist atheist/humanism and abhor the staggering death toll that vain philosophy has wrought (especially since the death toll exacted by those who share your bigotry dwarfs that of all "fundamentalist" religions combined??)?? :

Seems to me it is you that is painting a picture of me as you see fit so that you can keep up writing all this dribble about the good guys (that of course being the US and perhaps Israel) and the bad guys (all the others who see things from a different perspective). There´s no need to comment on that really.

You're right for the first time here.........it's best you avoid commenting further. :lol:


Sincerely MB280E