Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:27 pm
the squirrel wrote:"I don't really have to defend myself to other people. Their problem is not a problem for me," McBeth said
But he was quick enough to make his problem a problem for everyone else.McBeth said. "I'm proud of who I am."
Yes, and so is Gary Glitter, and MJ.
These confused individuals dont need sex changes...........they need some serious psychiatric help.....and if that doesn't help.........lock them up because they are dangerous, unstable people....and a possible threat to society.
Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:39 pm
EagleUSA wrote:Charron said aircraft were unique environments, but schools had the ability to better control different situations.
Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:46 pm
Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:05 pm
Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:25 pm
Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:19 am
Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:31 am
Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:17 am
Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:14 am
likethebike wrote:I'm not saying it should be a basic right or should be encouraged. I'm saying you have a right to live and to work.
While I agree generally with the thrust of your argument (I certainly don't believe that anyone should be tormented because of sexual preference) you are on shaky ground with the argument that everyone has a RIGHT to work. There is no right of employment........one must conform to some standards to be employed anywhere. If someone refuses to conform in a way deemed necessary by a certain employer..........that is a choice with consequences.
I MUST dress a certain way to work where I do. I remember having to cut my hair for some jobs in the past. If I refused to conform to those standards.......I was out of luck.
This situation goes well beyond those strictures. There is an inherent and omnipresent streak of selfishness in cases such as this.
We must accept the changes.......consequences to others be damned.
No consideration for the desires of the parents or well-being of the children.Your supposition that children are unaffected by appearances apart from parental influence is self-evidently wrong, BTW. Ever see a child confronted by a clown?? My kids run in terror at the sight of Santa Claus. When I was about 3, I was terrified at the cook at the local diner who had a skin condition which gave him a mottled appearance. My parent's explained that the man was harmless.......a good friend of our family. They certainly didn't stoke my fears........but they were as unable to allay them with me as I am with my own children.
The point you made about the children not knowing anything was out of the ordinary because some would have other teachers forgets the basic inter-human dynamics of groups. The word would get around. Interest would be peaked. Cruel jokes and fear would follow.
Then would come the inevitable questions for the parents........who are then forced to deal with an issue most would rather not have to explain until the child was older.
I'm also saying for that for the homosexuals where this is an option, and it's not an option for all of them for various reasons, (though some would argue that these people are not true homosexuals but that's an argument) their opponents have to decide what they want because it appears to be a no win either way. And you could say all you want about it being a choice but to endure the ridicule that often comes with a sexual persuasion outside the norm hardly seems like a choice anybody would make.
It is a choice many make out of sheer frustration or bravado........."If they don't like it.....I'll show 'em!!!"
It's also a way to anesthetize themselves by joining a "group".......a way to attain a sense of normalcy (within their peer group) by coming "out" and receiving the acceptance of those who are like them. They can then gain points for their "in your face" stand with society, and delude themselves that they are forging ahead for equality. Aggressiveness of the type displayed by the person we are discussing here is rewarded and admired by their peers.........it is a means to stature. The slings and arrows simply serve to solidify that position in the group and harden their resolve as their stature grows. The slings and arrows are actually welcomed at some level because of this, and many get satisfaction from it.
And that is what it's about........a way to attain acceptance from the only group they care about, since such acceptance will never come from society at large anyway.
Again I'm not sure how much of a problem this is for children unless it is a problem for their parents. These kids are the age where they are generally very accepting barring adult interference. Fear towards a person because of his or her looks is generally a learned reaction.
Again, this stand puzzles me........do you have children??
Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:23 am
likethebike wrote:The children do not care if adults treat the issue with rationality. They take their cues from adults not the other way around.
Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:42 am
Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:58 am
Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:41 am
Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:58 pm
Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:24 am
Charron said aircraft were unique environments, but schools had the ability to better control different situations.
Tell that to the parents of 11 year old Joe Geeling, stabbed by a fellow pupil while leaving school last Wednesday evening. Or the parents of the 16 5 year olds gunned down in Dunblane 10 years ago.
I don't see any difference between this and Muslims wanting Sharia law. If it's not conducive to the society of the country in which you live you should leave.
Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:46 am
Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:10 am
Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:01 am
To me this is all about respecting the right of a person to make their own choices and live their own life.
Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:03 am
likethebike wrote:In what way is what the teacher did immoral? You could say it's not natural but it's not natural to use drugs to extend your life.
These are important questions to ask. If you are going to block a person with the impulses of the teacher's what course of action do you deem acceptable for that person. What's more is that the course of action has the potential to make that person happy? What practical detriment does it have?
And let's face it as a woman, she does not look that abnormal although it is unfair to judge just from a head shot. Plus, if you choose to "protect" children from a sight like this should we also segregate anyone who has a disfigurement or even anyone who has grown ugly with age.
To me this is all about respecting the right of a person to make their own choices and live their own life.
Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:27 am
Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:02 am
It depends on who the 10 people are. If I walked into a gay bar the situation would be quite different wouldn't it? If a person walked into a vintage Ku Klux Klan you could find unanimous consent on the merits of something as outrageous as a lynching.
Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:06 am
Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:30 am
Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:04 am
Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:35 am
likethebike wrote:Scatter- The right to work is essentially the right to live because you can't live without money. Now employers have the right to ask for certain concessions given the nature of the job (a right that is often abused in this employer friendly environment). I'm not sure that applies here. One thing that is being ignored here is that this is basically uncharted ground. It's not the way the person is dressing and it's not even an especially abnormal look. Many older women grow masculine in appearance. Unless some adult MAKES it an issue, it's not going to be an issue for the kids
The fact of the matter is, the Liberal mantra of "It's ALL for the children" is conspicuous by its absence here. Why should a 6 or 7 year old be forced to confront such a subject?? What ever happened to "readin' 'ritin' and 'rithmatic" without a social agenda being forced down their throat??
Here's the bottom line Bike.........it's not anyone elses business to expose my children to such social and sexual subjects. It's MY damn business to dtermine WHAT and WHEN and WHETHER I want to address social issues. And most especially sexual issues.
It's not the business of schools to make those judgements.Perhaps if that was once again the policy of public schools, we would get back to actually teaching rather than turning out semi-literate morons whose test scores are ranked near the bottom of the industrialized world.
Haven't you noticed with your own children the way your reaction to a situation colors their reaction? You laugh at a joke on a television show and they laugh. You get angry about the car breaking down and later they learn to get angry over similar mishaps. I can't believe you've never had the case where the kid scrapes his knee or something and just stands there stoically until the adults rush over and start making a fuss. Then the waterworks start. My nephew sliced his head open and didn't share a tear until his mother came over and got hysterical.
Again, it is apparent that you have no children of your own. Children need no prompting to recoil in fear from what they see. It is not the same as scraping a knee and only getting frightened after a grownup does.
I've never taught my kids to fear clowns.......they've never seen me react in panic after seeing one. I don't fear Santa. My kids do DESPITE MY ASSURANCES. I can guarantee that if I started coming home today dressed as a woman from now on, my kids would freak..........and begin to ask questions inappropriate for children their age. And that is the point.
These questions that are necessarily raised by this person's irredeemably selfish actions are not appropriate to be addressed to children this young. I don't need their innocence attacked by complex sexual issues foisted upon them by selfish and self centered "teachers' or misguided liberal social engineers.
Kids' minds are open until we close them.
No, children recoil naturally from such things until we brainwash them into thinking such things are "natural". Although, really , no amount of convincing seems to work, overdone stridency of the gay lobby aside.
Sex changes existed when I was a kid as well and I knew about them. I didn't get all hysterical.
I doubt most parents are hysterical either........I bet that they simply resent such socio/sexual experimentation being imposed upon their children.
I think you exaggerate the importance of the support of the transexual community as with any oppressed community that support is a defense mechanism. Nobody says "I'm going to grow up and have a sex change operation so I can be hero amongst my transexual peers." It's not an indulgence a decision someone makes out of hand. It's not like getting drunk one night and getting a tattoo. It's not a whim.
You are twisting my words here. I said nothing concerning the motivation or inception of that lifestyle. I never suggested it was a "whim". Nonetheless, once the decision is made to openly pursue that lifestyle, the support network is extensive, vocal, shrill, and rewarding of those whose voices and actions are the loudest politically and socially. That is fact.
I don't see how it affects your life or anyone's life.
Are you serious???.........it affects my life because it is being paraded before MY children at an age where it is inappropriate. It affects my life because such socio/sexual experimentation makes guinea pigs of my children without my consent. It affects my life because it robs me of my responsibility and duty to guide and direct my child's education experience and quality, as well as what I deem as appropriate exposure to such things at a time I deem proper.
If a kid knows enough to ask you explain. Are you afraid that rationally dealing with this issue will make every kid want to grow up and get a sex change?
Not at all.........how about that it is not a subject that SHOULD be foisted upon my child without my consent?? How about the fact that you cannot deal rationally with such an issue with a child whose emotional and social development does not enable them to process such information??
How about preserving some semblance of innocence in children while getting about the business of teaching something other than a worldview that I find objectionable??? That is an imposition upon MY rights and MY responsibilities.
I couldn't care less if someone is homosexual. I have homosexual friends and family members that I love. If you were gay, I would be every bit the friend to you that I am now.
But I will not cede to you the raising of my children, and what I deem age appropriate exposure. It is frankly no one's business but mine.
Hosted by ElviCities