Off Topic Messages

Wed Feb 01, 2006 1:17 pm

GG wrote:
someone once said, none of the Arab countries want the so-called Palestinians!
None of them.
In a discriminating manner they all have kicked them out at some point in the past, telling them get out! Go find your own country.

Problem is, those people (and most are dregs/criminals/terrorists/suicide bombers) are trying to steal land away from Jews/Israel who have rightful claim. Jerusalem is meant to be a Jewish city.


What a decisive statement.

Pity it's a bit short on facts.

It would be illegal in the UK.

Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:20 pm

To Maurice:

I think you're wrong there.

In 1948 it was decided at the UN that 2 states had to be created on that land: a jewish one and a palestinian one.

Then the jewish created their state, Israel, and the palestinians instead of doing the same, decided to join the rest of the arab countries on a war to destroy Israel.

So, they left Israel (on the call of the arab countries) and fought against the recently created state, which of course won the war defeating all the arab countries.

Those palestinians that left Israel to fight Israel became refugees.

Of course the other arab countries didn't want them. Why is that when they have the same religion, language, etc?? Who knows.

And about the apartheid comment....Israel does what it has to do to protect their civilian people against terrorist attacks.

If the palestinians don't wipe Israel off the map is because they can't.

There will never be peace because the palestinians want all the land for them.

Also, they educate their children to hate Israel and the jews, and there are videos of palestinian children at school learning how to become martirs and how they will go with Allah and all those gorgeous virgins if they become suicide bombers and kill inocent israeli civilians at a grocery store, or restaurant or whatever.

Javier from Buenos Aires

Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:53 pm

To javilu,

The Israeli police are busy with rioting Jewish fanatics at this very moment. It's on our TV news now!

Trying to evict them from a settlement. Those fanatics also teach their children to hate the Palestinians although they are the very same race.

Far more palestinians have been killed than Israelis. Facts are facts. One sided arguements here are flying in the face of common sense.

Only a nutcase would set up an Apartheid "JEWISH" State totally surrounded by hundreds of Millions of Muslims. the whole region is paying the cost of that stupidity.

Look what happened in Africa..............white rule just could not withstand the rise of once enslaved people.

Israel has totally ignored UN rules for decades!!!

I've been observing events in Israel for a great length of time.

By the way my cousin landed by parachute in Suez when America was against the French and British siezure of the Egyptian Canal.

How times change :lol:

Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:41 pm

To Maurice:

Wrong again. No one teach their children in Israel that palestinians are the devil and against Allah or god or whatever. No one teaches in israeli schools that killing innocent palestinians you will go to heaven.

Israel targets terrorist to defend their civilians. If it takes a missile trough the window so be it.

As I said before, Israel has the right to defend itself against terrorist organizations and attacks.

If Abbas or whoever was in charge failed to disarm or stop or arrest the terrorist groups that want to destroy Israel, then Israel should do it to protect the people.

Javier from Buenos Aires

Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:20 pm

javilu, Im afraid you are totally misinformed.

I have witnessed the Israeli children being questioned about their views on Palestinians on camera. On the record Fact. Check British Channel 4 TV, it does regular In depth reports on the Middle East.

Not to mention our own media and newspapers here in Ireland some of our UN Peace keepers were killed by Israelis. They do not like our accurate coverage of the Palestinian uprising.

Most moderate and intelligent Israelis would love to live in peace but the religious fanatics ferment trouble with their "Promised land" nonsense!!!

It's an awful shame that it has has taken suicide bombers to wake up the idiotic sabre rattling west to the plight of the unfortunate Palestinians driven from their homes and land by settlers from abroad.

Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:34 pm

Here in Argentina there's no british channel 4, Maurice, but thanks anyway.
I think the palestinians like the world to view them as poor victims, and they succeed at that many times.

Show me proof that your UN peace keepers were killed by israeli soldiers because of their coverage.

All israelis would like to live in peace I think. And most are moderate.

I see you don't read my post. No unfortunate palestinians were droven from their land, they chose to leave to fight the war against Israel. They had the chance to create their own state and blew it.
Jewish people has more history on that land that the palestinians.

Javier from Buenos Aires

Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:47 pm

javilu, Sorry I just do not have the time to fill you in on a lifetime of observing injustice all around the world. I'm 63 and believe you me I'm no gullible fool.

The weight of evidence is againts the nut cases in Israel. They produced the Palestinian nut cases themselves and now the whole world is suffering because of that well documented injustice.

Methinks I have better things to do than go around in circles. Where's Colin :lol:

Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:02 pm

Maurice, I'm 28 and it's ok.

Is it Israel's fault that the palestinians didn't hear the UN resolution and decided to leave Israel to destroy it? Yeah, the palestinian nut cases are Israel's fault, come on.

Javier

Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:55 pm

Javier -

Surely it is Israel who are in breech of the UN conventions ?

Illegally in possession of land which they occupied by way of war.

Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:01 pm

javilu, Israeli Terrorists plagued the British why wouldn't they plague the Palestinians?

If the Jewish people had used there well known intelligence and created a modern SECULAR state along with the Palestinian people the whole mess could have been avoided. But along came the Ultra Orthodox Rabbis with their mad ideas about a Promised Land. How could any modern people stand for that kind of nonsense. Those maniacs drove tens of thousands of people into refugee camps.

The British and Americans turned away hundreds of thousand of Jewish people after the second world war. They did not really want to go to Israel..but where else could they go????????????????????????? Well to Palestine of course!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you know the Jews of Austria and Germany actually loved being in those countries because of all the culture, till the moronic Nazis arrived!

Now the cultured Jewish people are having to deal with their own moronic racists!!!

Just read the top very intelligent Jewish Authors and see their point of view about the jewish fanatics, already. :lol:

Colin, a few years ago Rabbi on camera said they held the occupied lands by right of conquest!

Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:51 pm

The Arabs in Israel have more rights than Jews and Christians in Islamic countries. Arabs in Israel can practice their religion, vote, and serve in the legislative body. Arabs in Israel have a far better deal than do Arabs in most Arab countries! And did the Palestinians not get the right to self-government under Arrafat? Did that stop the terrorism against Israeli civilians? No.

I'm not unsympathetic to the plight of the Palestinian people, but as long as they support extremist groups whose goal is to eradicate the Jews from Palestine then I cannot support them.

I can agree with you to a certain extant Maurice about the Rabbi's 'promised land' bit, but since '67 Israel has taken territory for military/strategic purposes, not to set it's borders based upon the Biblical description. They west bank and the Golan heights are areas from which the Arabs were launching attacks. Given this, I think the Israelies' were well within their rights to take this territory. However, the settlement issue is another matter. The Palestinians have a legitimate beef in regard to that.

Colin: I can accept your viewpoint that the Arabs living in Palestine prior to the formation of the state of Israel can be called Palestinians. But would this also not apply to the Jews who were living there? And as for being displaced how do you displace nomads? They don't really have a 'home' as such, just wander around a territory.

Nobody was much interested in this area before the formation of the state of Israel. And it was hatred for Israel that caused the surrounding Arab countries Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon and Syria to attack like a pack of wolves - not the plight of the so-called Palestinian people. The truth of the matter is that, before the formation of the state of Israel those countries didn't give a rat's rump about the territory of Palestine or the people who dwelt there.

Wed Feb 01, 2006 9:19 pm

Pete Dube, The lands in Palestine were farmed by Palestinians for centuries. To keep saying the people were nomads is not accurate. Who built all those houses!!! They were there when an Israeli propaganda movie (which I watched in the UK circa 1958) celebrated their victory in the 1948 war.

The influx of huge numbers of foreigners into Palestine after world war two has caused all the trouble and EVERYONE with a brain knows that!

The world turned a blind eye to it all. After all they were only Arabs being displaced.

Colonialism wasn't quite out of fashion back then. You remember when Americans were the "Terrorists" don't you. Did you see "The Patriot" :lol:

Wed Feb 01, 2006 9:36 pm

All those wars had Israel defending itself. Israel never attacked to "conquer" land, but to defend its own.
Nobody kicked anyone from Israel. Arabs decided to leave Israel to join the arab army to destroy Israel.
Arabs, as Pete Dube said, have rights in Israel that no jew can dream of having in an arab country.
Palestinian people should have made their state in 1948, instead of trying to destroy Israel.

Javier

Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:06 pm

Nonsense. Goodnight. :lol:

Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:00 pm

Truth shall be told!

Javier from Buenos Aires.

Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:27 pm

MauriceinIreland wrote:Pete Dube, The lands in Palestine were farmed by Palestinians for centuries. To keep saying the people were nomads is not accurate. Who built all those houses!!! They were there when an Israeli propaganda movie (which I watched in the UK circa 1958) celebrated their victory in the 1948 war.

The influx of huge numbers of foreigners into Palestine after world war two has caused all the trouble and EVERYONE with a brain knows that!


Everyone with a brain knows that after WW 1 Palestine fell under British rule, and that the Balfour Declaration of 1917 supported the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine.

Everyone with a brain also knows that after WW 2 the international body known as the United Nations made the decision to partition the area of modern-day Israel and it's surroundings between the Jews and the Arabs.

Everyone with a brain also knows that in 1948 the U.N. officially recognized the state of Israel as a nation.

MauriceinIreland wrote:The world turned a blind eye to it all. After all they were only Arabs being displaced.


Baloney. Nobody really 'owned' the land, they were living in it. They weren't 'displaced' rather they refused to settle for the partitioning, and in particular objected to the establishment of the state of Israel in Palestine.
Rather than push for their own Palestinian state within the area they elected to try and destroy Israel by war. The stakes were all or nothing. They lost. Israel won. And kept on winning each time war broke out. Egypt eventually gave up and recognized Israel. So did Jordan. As I wrote before the Palestinians were granted self-government. It hasn't worked.

MauriceinIreland wrote:Colonialism wasn't quite out of fashion back then. You remember when Americans were the "Terrorists" don't you. Did you see "The Patriot" :lol:


The revolutionary war was fought for different reasons than the situation in Palestine. In any event we didn't deliberately target civilians - unlike the Arabs.
But the result was we won (with help from the French) and most Brits have gotten over it, to the point where the U.K. is our staunchest ally (along with the Aussies). It's only the Europhile Brits that have a beef with us.

Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:45 pm

"It's only the Europhile Brits that have a beef with us."


Oh Pete, if only that were true.

Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:56 pm

Care to elaborate Errol? If I'm off base I'm interested in knowing why.

Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:06 am

Thanks Pete, that's what I was trying to explain!!!

Javier from Buenos Aires

Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:11 am

Just a general anti US feeling that i`ve noticed among friends and work colleages over the last few years, of all political persuasions. I also think quite a lot of people over here are anti European.

Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:37 am

Pete you will have to try harder just because a foreign power makes a declaration doesn't mean the people involved have to stand for it.

UN votes have proved to be impotent in so many cases involving the Israelis why should others accept them? Why did Jewish terrorist kill and bomb the British?

The crux is Palestine was over populated with European jewish people against the interest of local inhabitants. You know this, and I know it, and everyone with a brain knows it :lol:

History lessons I do not need I am well past the history book learning knowing the victors write the books, till their victories are history. History in Ireland is very old indeed and many have written the story before the end. So modern history is childsplay...it's on TV!

Blinkered vision is a great drawback. Goodnight.

Thu Feb 02, 2006 3:34 am

Ezzz wrote:Just a general anti US feeling that i`ve noticed among friends and work colleages over the last few years, of all political persuasions. I also think quite a lot of people over here are anti European.


It does exist to a degree, but it's really as much anti-Iraq war sentiment, as anti US sentiment I think.

But I agree that whether someone is a Europhile has little to do with their feelings towards the US. Many, myself included, feel that we should have a strong presence in the EU AND maintain the close relationship with the US. Blair is a firm believer in that of course, but Iraq hasn't made the stance a popular one for many.
Last edited by TJ on Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:11 am

TJ wrote:
Ezzz wrote:Just a general anti US feeling that i`ve noticed among friends and work colleages over the last few years, of all political persuasions. I also think quite a lot of people over here are anti European.


It does exist to a degree, but it's really as much anti-Iraq war sentiment, as anti US sentiment I think.


I think that's it T.J. And anti-Bush Administration sentiment.

T.J. wrote:But I agree that whether someone is a Europhile has little to do with their feelings towards the US. Many, myself included, feel that we should have a strong presence in the EU and maintain AND maintain the close relationship with the US. Blair is a firm believer in that of course, but Iraq hasn't made the stance a popular one for many.


But having a strong presence in the E.U. is not synonymous with being a Europhile. And it's primarily the Europhile Brits that don't like the U.S. regardless of Bush or Iraq.

Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:57 am

Maurice -
If you would re-read my posts more carefully you see that I actually agree with you in some respects.

Do I think the Palestinians have some legitimate grievances? Yes. But murdering civilians isn't the way to get your grievances addressed.

Do I think they are entitled to an independent, self-governing state within Israel/Palestine? Yes. And they were granted self-government and it hasn't been exactly a smashing success - nor stopped acts of terrorism.
They were granted this and territory despite Israel repeatedly winning the various wars. And as I've already pointed out they have actually fared better under Israeli government than many Arabs do under Arab run governments. They have religious freedom. They can vote. They've had Arab representation in the Israeli government.

Do I think the Israelis should vacate the settlements? Yes, and they've been in the process of doing so.

Do I think the Israelis have at times abused their military and political power against the Palestinians? Yes.

Where our fundamental disagreement lies is over the question of the state of Israel in Palestine. But this has long been settled. The British, under whose control Palestine fell after WW-1 endorsed the concept of a Jewish state within Palestine. Right or wrong they did it.

The U.N. partitioned off Palestine into Jewish and Arab factions. Right or wrong they did it.

The U.N. officially recognized the nation of Israel in 1948. Right or wrong they did it.

The surrounding Arab countries attacked the new state - and lost. Time and time again they attacked. Time and time again they were defeated.

There were Jews living in Palestine long before the nation was founded. Jewish refugees fled the holocaust to Palestine where there were other Jews living and which had once been the Jewish homeland before the diaspora. They also fled to other countries. Right or wrong this is what happened. Those in Palestine fought for the survival of the fledgling nation in the territory and they won. Right or wrong they won. And turned a desert land into a beautiful country.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Israel.

.

Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:56 am

Lets all have a Hgheeghee or for those of you on the otherside of the strip a She me Yan-soon and lets all get along. We only live once, well with only one virgin that is......

:lol: CHA CHA CHA :lol: .....I STILL GOT IT! :lol: :lol: