Off Topic Messages

Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:12 pm

genesim wrote:Hey call me twisted, but Mrs. Romano always had more sex appeal to me. She didn't look it, but the angle was there if you ever sit down and watch the show.


You're twisted Genesim. Jeeze, you might as well say Schneider was hot. :lol:

Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:56 am

Well look again. She was a very sexy lady. Nothing wrong with her at all!

Each to their own.

Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:27 am

And I was just having fun. To each his own, indeed.

re: Happy Days
Graceland Gardener wrote:I remember when that happened, changing themes,

and they quit shooting in a real house, on film

and switched to that new "house stage" on video

and the audience screamed everytime someone entered.

That was a major shark jump!


For a year or two, I thought it was fine that way. But I like the feel of the earlier shows. They're awfully quiet in comparison.

The last year or two of Three's Company got rid of what was left of the studio audience and had strange lighting and way too much make-up on John Ritter. Talk about a show running on fumes. Don Knotts did surprisingly well in replacing what's-his-name, and so did that leggy blonde. But within a few years, it was flat again.

I'll have to think again about what exactly was my favorite show. Poke around in that site and you discover how many shows you really liked.

Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:44 am

Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:The last year or two of Three's Company got rid of what was left of the studio audience and had strange lighting and way too much make-up on John Ritter. Talk about a show running on fumes. Don Knotts did surprisingly well in replacing what's-his-name, and so did that leggy blonde. But within a few years, it was flat again.


There were a few years when the guy who played Larry practically carried Three's Company. I thought he was funny. I also liked Priscilla Barnes, what a beauty.

I still greatly enjoyed Cheers after Shelly Long left. She was starting to get annoying. For me, the show was the ensemble.

Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:47 am

Pete Dube wrote:
I still greatly enjoyed Cheers after Shelly Long left. She was starting to get annoying.


No sh*t! Bye Bye Diane!

I prefer the Rebecca/Robin Colcourt/Woody & Kelly years


Remember that annoying Diane episode where she bugs Sam to propose, and finally he does, and she turns him down, they go to court, she's in a neckbrace and judge makes him propose again.

watching that episode should be the very definition of TORTURE.

Turn it off already ! Puhleease! Shut her up! Turn it off!!!!!

Sat Feb 11, 2006 8:07 am

I'm with 'ya Pete.........Shelly Long is nails on a chalkboard, and that includes her post-Cheers work (what there has been of it :lol: ).

What an abjectly stupid move for her to leave Cheers. I guess her agent convinced her she was going to be a BIG STAR, and the ensemble at that Boston bar was holding her back :roll: .

I was soooooooo happy to see her go.........

And Rebecca was HOT and FUNNY........

Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:04 am

I thought Long brought a needed humanity to the show that separated it from other sitcoms. She is much greater talent than Alley. The whole key to the show it turned out was the female character. When Alley came in the whole show turned broad and cartoonish. Sam became a buffoon. In the early episodes he was thoughtful and street smart. The change may have been due to his lack of chemistry with Alley. It really killed his portrayal of the character. Loose and natural in the opening seasons, his readings are slow and uninspired in the later seasons. At times he plays Sam as if he is mentally retarded.

Incidentally, there's evidence that Long may have been forced out. She was not a favorite amongst the cast members. However, she was a great perfectionist so you can understand that.

Long's character, like Alley's, was supposed to be somehwhat annoying. It gave added dimension to her relationship with Sam. These were two people who loved each other but drove each other crazy. She was a three dimensional character as were most of the cast. Perhaps to suit Alley's more limited talent there were no three dimensional characters left (save possibly Frasier) when the show ended.

Had the show ended after the five Diane years with Sam wishing Diane a good life as she walked out the door the show would have been perfect.

Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:20 pm

likethebike wrote:I thought Long brought a needed humanity to the show that separated it from other sitcoms.

Well........overacted pretentiousness doesn't equal humanity to me. Her portrayal was nearly cartoonish.

She is much greater talent than Alley.

Yes.........as her post-Cheers "career" clearly demonstrates :lol:

The whole key to the show it turned out was the female character. When Alley came in the whole show turned broad and cartoonish. Sam became a buffoon. In the early episodes he was thoughtful and street smart. The change may have been due to his lack of chemistry with Alley. It really killed his portrayal of the character. Loose and natural in the opening seasons, his readings are slow and uninspired in the later seasons. At times he plays Sam as if he is mentally retarded.

The comedy did become broader.......but not in a coarse sense. The writing was still first-rate. I hardly think Long was a loss for the show, or that her absense necessitated any major flux. It simply evolved........perhaps in a direction that you regret, but it's increasing popularity and critical praise signal that not many agree.

Incidentally, there's evidence that Long may have been forced out. She was not a favorite amongst the cast members. However, she was a great perfectionist so you can understand that.

In other words.......she was too like her character. Which explains her inability to get work anywhere else of consequence.

Long's character, like Alley's, was supposed to be somehwhat annoying. It gave added dimension to her relationship with Sam. These were two people who loved each other but drove each other crazy. She was a three dimensional character as were most of the cast. Perhaps to suit Alley's more limited talent there were no three dimensional characters left (save possibly Frasier) when the show ended.

Perhaps the key was that Alley's character was irritating, yet Alley still had the talent to play it while engendering affection from the audience. That is a prettty tough task that few have been able to pull off.

Which says that Alley had far more talent than you give her credit for......and that Long had far less, since she never pulled it off.Long's body of work is the best possible evidence that your inexplicable ability to find more than marginal talent in her is shared by few. There is a reason that she has been relegated to the thespian equivalent of a Russian Gulag.


Had the show ended after the five Diane years with Sam wishing Diane a good life as she walked out the door the show would have been perfect.

Well, we finally agree here........Long's walking out the door and into acting oblivion was indeed perfect for the show :wink:


Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:21 pm

Sorting It Out (1975-1978; TV-series) also writer and producer
A Small Circle of Friends (1980)
Caveman (1981)
Night Shift (1982)
Cheers (1982-1987, 1993; TV-series)
Losin' It (1983)
Irreconcilable Differences (1984)
The Money Pit (1986)
Outrageous Fortune (1987)
Hello Again (1987)
Troop Beverly Hills (1989)
Don't Tell Her It's Me (1990)
Frozen Assets (1992)
The Brady Bunch Movie (1995)
Freaky Friday (1995; TV-movie)
A Very Brady Sequel (1996)
Dr. T & the Women (2000)
The Last Guy on Earth (2006) (post production)

I must admit, Long has one film accomplishment that few can lay claim to......her movie career makes Elvis' look good by comparison. :lol:
Last edited by Scatter on Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:22 pm

BTW Bike, my wife agrees with you.........but there is no accounting for taste.

After all.......the woman agreed of her own free will to marry ME

:wink:
Last edited by Scatter on Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:21 pm

Well, LTB may feel ganged-up on for liking Shelley Long, just as I felt ganged-up on for not liking (verymuch) the 1957 "All Shook Up"


But I do find her (Diane/Shelley) irritating and pompously prude.

The only time I ever EVER laughed at her character was when she was stuck in the floor vent - off-camera thank you - and giving disembodied advice to Norm.

But there were ALOT more laughs with Rebecca scenes.

Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:15 pm

She wasn't supposed to be entirely likeable. She was prissy by design.

Let me jump in here as a fellow fan of the Shelley Long years. Hell, you could say that show jumped the shark when the original old codger of a bartender died...

I thought Kirstie was a refreshing change - for about a year, tops. They had milked the Shelley-Ted Danson thing for too long but for awhile it was really a lot of kicks.

Every show peaks, and I mostly hear that it peaked at the lastest with Kirstie's arrival. The gang of Norm, etc. wore thin after awhile and I didn't like the reliance on the other professorial guy who ended up having his own long-running spin-off. He was good only as a supporting actor.

You can always tell when I show is running thin when they start fleshing out every last character. I really didn't want to see so much of him or the other female bartender. I basically tuned out most of the last five years of that show. Maybe I missed something but every time I checked in, I had lost interest.

Shelley Long has always been quite attractive to these eyes. Check her out in the still-appealing early '80s flick "Night Shift" with Henry Winkler, et al. She was quite a appealing to this '80s teenager! :lol:
Image

Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:35 pm

You're free to like any song/ movie/book you like. I'm not stopping you.

"Outrageous Fortune", "The Brady Bunch Movie" and "Night Shift" were all decent money makers and Long's work in them was good. Her characters in "Bunch" and "Night Shift" were far from her Diane character although I'll admit the Brady mom was (purposely) one note. Also, she was very fine in the sleeper "Irreconcilable Differences". I think her lack of a great career was more to failing find a niche than any lack of talent. In almost her work though Long's greatest asset is subtlety and that is something that Alley lacks. It is also something I appreciate. I also enjoye "Seinfeld" much less the final two seasons when the actors started screaming and mugging to get laughs rather than through a convincing representation of their behavioral tics.

You can't argue that the characters were not more humane during Long's time and the relationships that much more complex. The bond between the characters was evident in almost every episode and many had an almost bittersweet melancholy feel. That was NEVER the case in any episode with Alley. Just like Don Knotts who brought energy and humor to Andy Griffith and the rest of the show keyed off that, Long brought restraint to "Cheers" and I think the show was much better for it. Her restraint allowed the writers to go deeper beyond laughs although it was still very funny. It also affected the writing because the show could for wit instead of pranks. I don't think Sam ever had a war of wits with Rebecca like he had with Diane.

Another important difference on the page and in the characterization of Diane and Rebecca is that while Diane's character was self-absorbed she was seldom selfish (the big exception was stringing along Frasier). Many episodes she overssteps her bounds in dealing with other character's lives (in a long sitcom tradition of buttinskys) but she did so because she cared about the characters. Alley's character was largely oblivious to the needs of the members of the bar which in many ways was because Alley is not an actress that interacts especially well with other actors.


About Long's off-screen behavior I think it's fair to paint her as a perfectionist. She made suggestions that hurt other actors but not as a power play but to, in her opinion of course, make the show better. I'm thinking of mainly Kelsey Grammer's character who she argued she be used for only a short story arc. It was nothing against Grammer but a change requested to preserve the quality of the show. Although, the story arc the writers came up with for Grammer in those two initial seasons was by and large brilliant (and IMO justified his inclusion. Long had no way of knowing this at first.) and he became a terrific character on his own show (a character by the way who often makes cringe in the exact way that Long made me cringe at times) you never quite believe that the Frasier on Frasier and the Frasier on "Cheers" are the same character. And I would argue that after those first two years, his character became an awkward fit on the show. As an excellent episode of "Frasier" pointed out, Frasier would simply not enjoy hanging around these type of people. If he can't tolerate his dad watching a few ball games on TV, how can he tolerate a whole lifestyle like that. There is no way, he'd have went back to that bar after Diane left and then getting married.

Shatner encouraged a lot of the same disdain as Long on "Star Trek" for the same reasons. There are two sides to every story.

Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:40 am

"Frasier" was who I was thinking of.

I think I just tuned out sitcoms for much of the '90s so perhaps I'm not being fair. :oops:

Sun Feb 12, 2006 2:45 am

likethebike wrote:You're free to like any song/ movie/book you like. I'm not stopping you.



Why.............thank you :lol: