Off Topic Messages

Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:45 pm

MauriceinIreland wrote:


Once the seeds of doubt are sown in young thinking minds they will find out for themselves. That's what happened to all our young relatives...they all went to Christian schools (including our own children) but none...yes NONE. go to chapel or church on Sundays. Some of them would still say they are Christians, and some agnostic and some are Atheists. Few people actually bother to research the subject.

Again......a premise that proves nothing since the opposite is equally as true.

I was not raised in a Christian home. I researched over a decade for myself and accepted Christianity due to the empirical evidence, as did such great thinkers as Greenleaf, Blackstone,James Kennedy,Michael Youseff, etc.


Our own 11 year old grand - daughter, a very bright young child, is already questioning her Christian religion. The weight of Science is taking it's toll on young minds.

Not the weight of science, but the weight of the science she has been allowed to see. The intellectual and scientific blackout of pertinent scientifis fact which contradict the Theory is nothing less than totalitarian. It is based in fear........the same fear Dawkins displays whenever confronted by someone who can refute his speculations with fact (evidenced by his cowardly and unchanging response.......run away).

The proofs AGAINST evolution are far more convincing than the constantly morphing (due to genuine science constantly disproving the proposed mechanisms) evolutionary theses.


As for wars they are caused by humans whether Religious nut cases or power mad Atheists. Nevertheless their armies are usually made up of very religious people, and you know it.

Point??? The vast majority of people believe in a Deity of some sort......therefore, due to the statistics alone, most armies would consist of people who believe in Deity. Just as it would be absurd to point to the fact that an Army raised in Ireland would consist of mostly Irish, therefore the Irish are a war loving people.

The fact remains that the armies you referenced in the 20th century were headed by atheists. And the slaughter which ensued is theirs to own.

The same sort of superficial and vacuous argument Dawkins raises........and are easily refuted , unless one is prone to run away lest he be shown a fool........like Dawkins.


The word Atheist should really be replaced because I'm actually a believer...............in life. Mortal life.

Just take a long hard look at the unfortunates with a direct line to their special Almighty. Now there's an arrogance to marvel at :lol:

Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:26 pm

Maurice -
Those quotes by Einstein and Franklin show only that they weren't theists -not that they were atheists. It speaks volumes about that site that it leaves out the quotes that demonstrate Einstein and Franklin's deism. Both men were deists. The site is disingenous and you are wrong here. Einstein did not believe in a personal God of theism, and was a critic of religion, but he did come to a belief in a trancendent intelligence behind the cause and complexity of the universe. He also viewed the universe in all it's splendor with what he described as religious reverence. So while not being conventionally religious, in a sense he was religious.
And despite being a critic of religion he greatly admired Jesus.

I've no doubt that Dawkins engaged in revisionist history to try and paint Einstein as an atheist. I prefer to let Einstein speak for himself, rather than have his words filtered (or rather twisted) by a militant atheist the likes of Dawkins.

Oh, and as to Lincoln here's the last line of the Gettysburg Address: "It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion - that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain - that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom - and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

Note the words "under God."

Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:50 pm

I love it when people speak of something they have no experience of whatsover nor can they. :lol:

This "God" thing is outside our knowledge, a figment of the imaginations of very primitive people who polished the myth, and brainwashed their own children into believing it as Divine inspiration!

As a young Roman Catholic boy aged about twelve and before I had read any atheist writers, doubts crept into my head as I surveyed the world around me and read our awful history on this unfinished planet which still slaughters hundreds of thousands of people. It took a few years more but when I freed my mind of the chains imposed on it, I was free, Born again :lol:


Scatter and Pete, you can say what you want and twist and turn as much as you like but the enlightened world has, and is moving on. With or without you.


ColinB, Yes, just a Nut.

But a Nut that has keeps many minds in the dark ages.

A militant and humanist Atheist has been long overdue. Dawkins is really rattling a lot of cages :wink:

I dislike the word atheist. How can you not believe in something that does not exist?

Bottom line for me is the whole thing about the Origin of the Universe or Universes is beyond us and I think that will always be the case.

But some people have a need..................

EDIT: Just a thought. I was speaking to my 45 year old son just last week and asked him for his views now he is an ADULT. He laughed and said, "Yes I believe in the great ball of spaghetti in the Sky". He reads far too much Science Fiction.........he always has :lol:
Last edited by MauriceinIreland on Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:55 pm

Maurice wrote:
I dislike the word atheist.
How can you not believe in something that does not exist?


What would you prefer ?

Non-believer ?

Realist ?

Humanist ?

Normalist ?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:02 pm

ColinB, I'll think about it.

I think far too much, I've been told :cry:

Realist is good, but is it good enough....let me think............. :lol:

Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:08 pm

I thought this "essay" was very interesting, especially the very last paragraph.
http://www.aip.org/history/einstein/essay.htm

Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:39 pm

Jeff -
Here's another Einstein quote: "My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail minds. That deeply emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God."

Maurice: What stands out about militant atheists like you and Dawkins is that, for all the professions of disbelief, you guys spend an awful lot of time talking about God. And I know why. You guys don't fool me for a minute. You've convinced yourselves that you don't believe, but deep down inside at some level you still do, and your militant brand of atheism is really just shaking your fists at God for perceived injustices. But by all means do continue. You guys are doing more to keep discussion of God in the public arena than are Christians.

Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:34 pm

:lol: Describe this God we are talking about. Is it the Smiting or Forgiving version?

Pete, Do you know why Einstein turned down the Presidency of Israel?

You forget we are surrounded by religion in these parts, It's where America got most of it's many religious sects from.

We hear all the professionals spouting their theories ad nauseum the Chief Rabbi of London is on BBC radio almost every morning :lol:

Meanwhile Dawkins is getting more and more attention with his books, TV, and Radio talks. Thank goodness "The Age of Reason" continues.

Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:35 am

Yawn. :roll:

jeff R