Off Topic Messages

Frank Sinatra would be 90

Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:56 pm

Today Frank Sinatra would be 90 !

Happy "90th" Birthday to the Voice 8)

Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:47 am

And he'd still hate rock n roll.

Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:38 am

Phil Hartman was a better "Frank" than Sinatra was.

Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:23 am

He was an absolute genius regardless of what music he would like or dislike. (It does appear he did come to some easy peace with rock and roll after the 1960s.) It is very sobering to consider he would be 90 today. Time waits for no one as the Rolling Stones would say.

Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:37 am

Actually, he's probably closer to 70.

Oh, you meant age. I thought you meant temperature. My bad, carry on.

Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:21 am

Well, now that we've pretty much gotten to the end complaining and bitching about Lennon, now let's go after another dead icon.
What a sorry bunch of people on this messageboard!

jeff R

re

Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:12 pm

likethebike wrote:He was an absolute genius


i think the same :wink:

Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:37 pm

jeffreyjames wrote:Well, now that we've pretty much gotten to the end complaining and bitching about Lennon, now let's go after another dead icon.
What a sorry bunch of people on this messageboard!

jeff R


hypocritical to a degree - complaining and bitching about complaining and bitching. :lol:

No doubt a very christian thing to do. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:32 pm

likethebike wrote:He was an absolute genius regardless of what music he would like or dislike. (It does appear he did come to some easy peace with rock and roll after the 1960s.) It is very sobering to consider he would be 90 today. Time waits for no one as the Rolling Stones would say.


The word Genius I save for the likes of Leonardo De Vinci, Beethoven, Rembrandt etc

Sinatra's voice bored most of my generation to death for decades. There were dozens of crooners from Crosby to Dean Martin just as good if not better.

I really liked "The Man With The Golden Arm"............................... for the Main Title Theme music AND Kim Novak :lol:

Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:02 pm

MauriceinIreland wrote:The word Genius I save for the likes of Leonardo De Vinci, Beethoven, Rembrandt etc


You forgot to mention Kate Bush and Tom In North Carolina. :D

Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:08 pm

Big Boss Man wrote:
MauriceinIreland wrote:The word Genius I save for the likes of Leonardo De Vinci, Beethoven, Rembrandt etc


You forgot to mention Kate Bush and Tom In North Carolina. :D


BBM,
Now, now, you know I can't possibly be in the same class as the great Ms. Bush. Of course, if you've seen her lately, you know it would also be hard to be in the same zip code. We're talking HUGE!!!

Tom

Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:31 am

There are all sorts of shadings and variations in genius. The emotional insight that Sinatra shows on an album like "Only the Lonely" needs no apologies.

Elvis and the Beatles bore many kids today. And to get people of any generation to read Shakespeare is like pulling teeth. That doesn't mean anything other than they haven't really bothered to listen or learn what the artist is trying to do.

Along with Crosby, Sinatra basically invented popular phrasing and using that style of phrasing to shade and reshade the meaning of a song. It is hard to believe in this performer dominated world but at one time the popular singer was meant to be as bland as possible so as not to interfere with the intent of the song. Later, Sinatra was the first to realize the possibilities in the LP form of expression and he exploited those possibilities as well as anyone.

Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:10 am

Everytime I hear Sinatra, I think of the stunt that the guys pulled on Elvis while filming G.I. Blues.

'Ol Blue Eyes is still missed by many. He was/is a legend.

Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:48 am

I read all the hype about Sinatra's diction and phrasing in the 50s, and later, but when I listened closely all I heard was a quite ordinary voice, albeit enhanced by familiarity.

It seems common these days to elevate many B artists to legendary status because of the longevity of their career.

As we raise the hills, don't the mountain peaks appear a little lower?

Our William Shakespeare expert in school, was also keenly interested in the real history of the America West...Geronimo etc. After he explained Macbeth to us we read the play eagerly and went on to the rest of the Bards plays with enthusiam. What's better than Witches, battles and Murder for young boys :lol:

The teacher in question had been a sergeant in the British army during WW2. He spent some time rounding up runaway Nazi war criminals. Many did not survive capture :wink: The true tales he told were graphic and not without grim humour. "One Nazi hiding out on top of a mountain would not give up, so we helped him over the cliff with a few rounds of 303 calibre".

He also spent some time with American soldiers during the war and told us how they had CHICKEN, and CIGARETTES to BURN!

Yes Mr Garvey was a teacher in a million. The best PT Instructor we ever had. Tough as nails and fit as a fiddle. During a swimming class he trapped me between his knees underwater till my breath ran out and in panic I had to actually bite and pinch his legs for him to let me go.

These namby pamby days I could have sued him for the traumatic stress I endured :lol:

How did we end up here?

Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:37 pm

Career longevity just doesn't happen. But beside that point Sinatra's greateness recognized in his own time. Bing Crosby famously commented that "A voice like that comes along once in a lifetime. Why did it have to be mine?"

It is ludicrous to call Sinatra a "B" level performer. By common consensus he is generally rated among the most important figures in American Popular music in the 20th century. It is no way "lowering the mountain" to call him great. He may not reach you but you can't deny his essential talent. Because you do not care for a particular style doesn't mean someone can't express themselves profoundly within that style.

Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:21 pm

Career longevity can be helped along quite a lot by DJs and journalists :lol:

I have listened to most of the great singers from Opera to pop and I'm afraid I do not think Sinatra was that great no matter how many try and tell me otherwise.

Maybe it's a fault in my hearing...who knows ? But when Elvis came along I knew I was hearing a truly special voice. Sinatra to me was just another of a long line of crooners singing about the moon in June, or Catch a Falling star like Perry Como. Boring stuff! That's why Elvis came as such a shock to everyone.

No less than Beethoven himself loved the works of a certain composer and thought his music was great, but he is not heard of these days. His name will come to me later :lol:

Yes Frank did well to last so long, he did indeed sing some great songs and made some very good movies but I'm afraid I don't believe a word of the hype about his voice.

I may be just as wrong as you were about Bill Haley but, That's Life :lol:

Elevating mediocrities to legendary status has become the norm these days. It devalues language. Just a quick off the cuff reply.
Last edited by MauriceinIreland on Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:12 pm

MauriceinIreland wrote:But when Elvis came along I knew I was hearing a truly special voice. Sinatra to me was just another of a long line of crooners singing about the moon in June, or Catch a Falling star like Perry Como. Boring stuff! That's why Elvis came as such a shock to everyone.


I completely agree!

Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:47 pm

Sinatra was great. My wife and I have discovered his music over the past year or two. It started with one CD of love songs and now we have many of his classic albums. Sinatra's voice may not have been THE most beautiful ever but he really knew how to sing. He was very careful and professional with his diction and phrasing and had superb breath control. That's one reason he didn't like Rock and Roll at first because he prided himself, as an accomplished singer, on singing the words clearly. To learn about Sinatra the singer, I would highly recommend Will Friedwald's "Sinatra! The Song is You: A Singer's Art." What is also noteworthy to mention about this author here is that in that book, the few references he makes to Elvis are negative. However, he has since discovered Elvis himself and has written an excellent essay in praise of Elvis' work. Another strong point of Sinatra's was his commitment of quality material. He sought after the highest quality songs and to me his songs often have a little more depth and wittiness to them compared to many Rock songs. So now I'll admit heresy as far as this board is concerned and say that for me Sinatra is now right up there with Elvis and Johnny Cash in my pantheon of Great American Singers.

Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:40 pm

Sinatra swings!..............that says all you need to know.

Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:19 pm

Right on, and LTB nailed it too.

ImageImageImage
Sinatra's music is aging very well indeed.
Legends are just about beyond criticism, by definition.

"There have been many accolades uttered about Elvis' talent and performances through the years, all of which I agree with wholeheartedly. I shall miss him dearly as a friend. He was a warm, considerate and generous man."

-Frank Sinatra, 1977

Image

Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:41 pm

Well what can I expect from people who think nothing of Kate Bush :lol:

It's amazing how record buyers of my age stayed away from buying Sinatra's records in droves. What was wrong with us that we did not believe all the hype, after all we heard him often enough :wink:

Of course we had listened to many of the great Tenors and even Mario Lanza, also the very underated Frankie Laine, so Sinatra was not special to us by any means. Compared to Elvis he was just another has been.
He was for the oldies :lol:

Thank goodness I discovered L V Beethoven during Elvis's Hollywood years. Now there's a REAL genius.

Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:12 pm

Maurice.........your not telling me you have never pulled up outside your swinging bachelor pad, in your little sleek sports car, let yourself inside your groovy abode, kicked off your patent leather Italian lofers, loosened your silk tie and undone your three buttoned Continental suit, poured yourself a scotch on the rocks, then put "Songs For Swinging Lovers" on your hi-fi ?

Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:48 pm

Ezzz, Not even in my hand tailored suit from Paris :lol:

I have probably heard more of Sinatra's recordings than anyone on this message board.
Relatives............ older relatives living and dead, are/were Sinatra fans, so as well as hearing the guy on radio, TV, and movies ad nauseum for more than five decades we heard him at home too, now we have to listen to him on TV ads all the time :cry: "Fly me to the Moon" comes on just about every other day, for the past million years :lol:

What bachelor pad? I was married at 17!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:18 am

I saw him in Sep. of 1984, at Toronto's CNE Grandstand, which was a large, open air concert stadium. It was cold, windy, and thundering in the background.
Frank came out in a black tux, looking very cool, with Nelson Riddle's full orchestra and Buddy Rich on drums.
The concert only ran for 42 minutes with 11 songs ... some people actually heckled when they realized no encores, and the concert was over so quickly.

Bottom line, this wasn't his venue ... it was more suited for The Stones or Queen, not for nightclub sophistication.

Now, if its quarter to three, in the wee hours of the morning, my preference would be to reach for a Sinatra cd and a stiff cocktail. No one, not even Elvis, sings melancholy saloon songs better than Frank. That, and swinging jazz classics make him a very special singer to me.

http://images.art.com/images/products/l ... 737532.jpg

re

Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:20 am

Tonight, I don t have time to explain why, but it has always been obvious to me that FS was as much talented as EP :!: