Off Topic Messages

Iraq, The Beginning of the End?

Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:25 am

"APMurtha Says Americans Back Iraq Pullout
AP - 1 hour, 55 minutes ago
JOHNSTOWN, Pa. - U.S. Rep. John Murtha, a key Democrat on military issues, on Monday defended his call to pull U.S. troops from Iraq, saying he was reflecting Americans' sentiment. "The public turned against this war before I said it," Murtha said. "The public is emotionally tied into finding a solution to this thing, and that's what I hope this administration is going to find out."

Iraq is being debated on "Dispatches" British CHANNEL 4 TV at the moment. The Invasion described as a huge mistake. Bedouins said to be assisting insurgents!

Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:29 am

So what..where is the sense or answer in it?.....what a stupid post.. even for you MC....what.. no Kate Bush for you bang on about? :wink:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Iraq, The Beginning of the End?

Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:32 am

MauriceinIreland wrote:Kate Bush Says Americans Back Iraq Pullout!


Rusty -
It was there, you just have to read between the lines.

Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:36 am

Rusty, Why are you Always so pleasant to me:-) A rhetorical question of course.

Many here are interested in the Iraq debacle. But Perhaps I'm wrong again:-)

Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:38 am

Hello Rob. Goodnight:-)

Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:16 pm

Agree with you on this Maurice as I´ve always said it was a huge mistake to invade Iraq as long as they didn´t have any plans for the time after the "war" was won. The losses on both sides seem to be much higher now than during the invasion.


Sincerely MB280E

Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:55 pm

MB280E, The majority of women in Iraq are now back to wearing veils in most of the country where the insurgents seem to dominate.

The Americans by their invasion appear to have brought Islam fundementalism to Iraq, according to British Channel 4 TV Reporters last night.

The explosions and hundreds of killings of civilians, soldiers, and insurgents, on a daily basis, contradict the reports of the war being won.

Many independent observers see a completely different story.

Image

Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:51 pm

This is not my opinion but it made interesting listening. It was a debate on BBC Radio 4 about the Iraqi mess:

One of the argument was, that though Sadam was an evil man, he knew his country and that he knew he had to suppressed many of the factions within Iraq without which he would have had the mess we are seeing now.

There argument went onto say that we should have approached Sadam in the same way as we did with Gaddafi. He was just as evil but once worn down he is now an accepted leader..?

.. too late now, but an interesting argument???

Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:17 pm

MB280E wrote:I´ve always said it was a huge mistake to invade Iraq


Sure. Since when it is right to invade and kill for the peace?? :shock:

The world needs a change of habit.

Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:38 pm

Rusty -

I reckon Maurice was simply pointing out that in the US, ordinary people have now turned against the Iraq involvement of their government.

This happened before with Vietnam.

The troops could soon be heading home.

Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:12 pm

Renan wrote:
The world needs a change of habit.


I agree with that. These radical muslims should find an alternate method of expressing their views instead of hijacking planes and crashing them in to buildings, or setting off bombs in hotels, or strapping bombs to their body and blowing both themselves and other innocent people away for no reason whatsoever.
Last edited by Big Boss Man on Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:00 am

ColinB wrote:The troops could soon be heading home.


That would be a nice Christmas present for a lot of families. Unfortunately, I don't believe it will happen quite that quickly.

It's a nice thought though.

Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:12 am

Hello Again Rob. Goodnight.

Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:18 am

Nighty night, old man. Tell Kate hello for me.

Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:40 am

Big Boss Man wrote:
Renan wrote:
The world needs a change of habit.


I agree with that. These radical muslims should find an alternate method of expressing their views instead of hijacking planes and crashing them in to buildings, or setting off bombs in hotels, or strapping bombs to their body and blowing both themselves and other innocent people away for no reason whatsoever.


You're right. They are one pathetic expendable race of people who only know how to express themselves thru senseless self-violence.

F**k Iraq.

Let them govern themselves.

I too want US troops to come home and without anymore loss of life and limb.

Any American who hopes for more US casualties (just to blame Bush for) is a traitor.

Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:39 am

I supported President Bush on the Iraq decision, even if it was/is a war which cannot be "won." Honestly, one cannot win the war on terror. It sounds good, and it is a noble cause, but it cannot be accomplished. Still, I applaud him for having the fortitude to try and exact change in a very unstable world, something his predecessors did not do.

Having said that, it seems pretty clear that we're spinning our wheels in the mud over there, with no clear end in sight. I am more in favor of a pullout with each passing day.

Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:36 am

KHoots that was one very logical and well thought out assessment :D

One thing to keep in mind is this; it would be foolish and dangerous to announce a set date/time to withdraw. They'll probably begin pulling troops out after the first of the new year, if they haven't began to already, because from what I hear from people I know who've been there, the Iragis are taking on more than what is being shown and talked about on tv. They will never say when or if any troops will be leaving, because you never let your enemy know what your next move is gonna be!

Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:21 pm

I see it has now come out in the media that the real reason for the invasion of Iraq was to ensure its oil came under Western control.

Apparently the deals now being drawn up will syphon around £116 billion [yes, billion] that's $200 billion out of the Iraqi economy into Western coffers.

For 'Western' read mostly the US but some to UK.

Now I'm not one to say 'I told you so', but............

Are you reading, Geno and all the rest who argued with me about this so long ago ?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:26 pm

You cannot withdraw without finishing what you´ve started. You have to sort out the mess before you leave the area. It will definately cost more money and lives, but that´s normal in a warzone.


Sincerely MB280E

Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:31 pm

MB280E wrote:You cannot withdraw without finishing what you´ve started. You have to sort out the mess before you leave the area. It will definately cost more money and lives, but that´s normal in a warzone.


Sincerely MB280E


In a war zone? Like Viet-Nam?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:39 pm

Graceland Gardener wrote:Let them govern themselves.


Now you said everything. AMEN!

Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:51 pm

MauriceinIreland wrote:
MB280E wrote:You cannot withdraw without finishing what you´ve started. You have to sort out the mess before you leave the area. It will definately cost more money and lives, but that´s normal in a warzone.


Sincerely MB280E


In a war zone? Like Viet-Nam?



The invasion has created a warzone with lots of casualties every day. You can´t just say "to hell with it, let them clean up their own mess and lets get the hell out of here". The invaders made the mess, so it would be fair to say they have to clear things up before leaving. To force democracy on the muslims will make the situation worse as they don´t have a culture or tradition for democracy. Hell, they have hated the western democracies and their way of living and gournment since time began, so you can´t invade them and start telling them or forcing them to change their way of living. Education is the important factor. Had the people of Iraq and other muslim countries been educated then those fundamentalists and priests would´ve been thrown to the lions a long time ago...!


Sincerely MB280E

Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:13 pm

They haven't got much choice now.

The Insurgents can keep up the guerilla warfare for decades. Their expertise in roadside bombs is causing massive casualties.

According to Channel Four TV 16, 000 ('official'figures) Americans have been wounded. They were flown home via German hospitals (Almost secretly!)

More than two thousand young American soldiers are dead!!!

Education should have begun in, The White House, before the war. The arming of Israel has backfired. Jews and Arabs are the same race, they should live together as equals. Without the advice of some mad Rabbis and mad Islamic clerics. (Look at what we had to put up with on this little island of Ireland)

As long as the cause of the trouble remains, little will change.

Fundementalists of ALL persuasions should be silenced. Their kind of education has us all in a mess!

EDIT: Update.

Baltimore Sun. "We can't count on the domestic security forces to secure the country" for years, said Loren Thompson, a defense analyst for the Lexington Institute, a conservative think tank, who sees the political landscape shifting in Washington, much as it did during the Vietnam War. "The Congress is losing patience, and the president doesn't really have a satisfactory answer."