Off Topic Messages

Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:21 pm

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Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:31 pm

:smt058

Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:13 pm

Just when it was getting interesting:-(

I have witnessed these kind of debates for many decades and nothing changes.

Washington DC was an eye opener sumptious wealth so CLOSE to abject poverty. guys lying in the streets CLOSE to The White House drugged out of their minds.

All those young executives dashing to work in the mornings their faces hardened, even the young women, a great many with tight faces almost grimacing stepping away from the prostrate bodies.

What's wrong with society? Indifference to the suffering of others.

The, "I'm all right Jack" syndrome.

Question time on BBC TV has for decades debated the crime question all the educated experts spewing out pure drivel year after year as the inner cities breed savage children!

Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:29 pm

The, "I'm all right Jack" syndrome.


I gather the meaning and recall a song to the same lyric! What
was that?

Also, what was the BBC debate exactly?

I agree with much of what you say in your post.

Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:49 pm

The almost annual BBC debates (We have our version here in Ireland" "Primetime") discuss the rise in violent crime in almost every British city of any size. The breakdown of social behaviour in communities.

Statistics are used to try and gain political points!

The "I'm Alright Jack" phrase was thetitle of a movie starring Peter Sellers about Unions:-) But it just means. I'm OK Friend/mate. Blow/sod you!

I knew an author in Salford Lancashire, Robert Roberts, he wrote "The Classic Slum" about Salford city where Maureen and I raised our children. The classic slum was about Edwardian times in the poverty stricken city. It could now be called the "violent" slum! Drugs and robbery have destroyed the place.

Thatcher's policies closed down the manufacturing industries and the place went downhill fast! No work means crime, and boy did it grow till people feared walking the streets at night.

EDIT. Sorry Greg I cannot continue on this thread now that it has been polluted. See below.
Last edited by MauriceinIreland on Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:52 pm

Image

Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:59 pm

Carry on, Maurice, Eileen...and LTB...? :lol:

Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:56 am

That's funny...I first noticed pollutants at 3:49.

Fri Nov 11, 2005 1:40 am

TINC, you're being a putz.

MauriceinIreland wrote:What's wrong with society? Indifference to the suffering of others.

IMO that's as perfect a spot-on summary as I can imagine. And it isn't one-sided either, it's on all sides. For some it goes beyond indifference; people who deliberately cause others to suffer, people who wish for others to suffer, people who cheer the spread of misery. And a seemingly disproportionate percent of leaders, officeholders in all areas of the world encouraging and exploiting both the indifference and the suffering to serve their own ends.

Still believing in the desire of many people to do good, however, I also think that having the global world in our faces has hurt in this respect - problems seem too many, too big, too much, too difficult to make a difference. Being a citizen of the WORLD makes it harder to care, not easier.

Eileen

Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:28 pm

Thanks Eileen, We will not let minor distractions get in the way of intelligent viewpoints being exchanged.

Individuals can make a difference and the more manning the barricades, the merrier.

The general public have seen pop stars take on politicians and embarrass them into action.

Now a great many ordinary people have e-mail and can make a difference even though the world is in such turmoil.

The PC is sure to make an impact as like minded souls (on the cutting edge) get their teeth into social problems in their own vicinity. Our many free local newspapers are taking up the complaints of communities and publicising problems once swept under the carpet.

Off at a tangent.

This morning I listened to one of our well known DJs, Gareth O' Callaghan, reading his own book, "A Day Called Hope" where he takes on the the accepted treatment of depression, and made some very valid points which set me thinking a little deeper on the subject. Gareth who had spent more than 20 years broadcasting on our national radio (Even on famous Radio Caroline) nearly lost everything because of his own depression. He spoke of the well known chemical inbalance in depressives, but also about the MIND which SPARKED off the chemical inbalance in the BRAIN.

Gareth did an excellent warm hearted RTE1 radio show on Elvis, which ran for weeks, for the 20th Anniversary 1997.

Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:52 am

Meanwhile..........a salient point remains unexplored.

My dear Elieen............as the pictured underpriviledged couple walk toward you on a darkened street........you're alone,BTW......do you cross to the other side??? Duck into a store front until they pass??? Why????

Or do you stop and commiserate with them over their underpriviledged status, flashing a wad of cash (of which you offer them just a little)???

Why not????

The disconnect is fascinating. Your statistics disproved your point.........and frankly, so do your day-to-day activities. Otherwise, you'd be dead by now. Likely killed by someone whom common sense would have told you might be.......unsavory.

The fact is, you live your ordinary day-to-say life as if you were in absolute agreement with everything Greg wrote and implied. So do we all, and for good reason. It's true

But you write the opposite with a sense of indignant outrage in direct opposition to how you yourself live.

Sun Nov 13, 2005 3:04 pm

Scatter wrote:Meanwhile..........a salient point remains unexplored.

My dear Elieen............as the pictured underpriviledged couple walk toward you on a darkened street........you're alone,BTW......do you cross to the other side??? Duck into a store front until they pass??? Why????

Or do you stop and commiserate with them over their underpriviledged status, flashing a wad of cash (of which you offer them just a little)???

Why not????

The disconnect is fascinating. Your statistics disproved your point.........and frankly, so do your day-to-day activities. Otherwise, you'd be dead by now. Likely killed by someone whom common sense would have told you might be.......unsavory.

The fact is, you live your ordinary day-to-say life as if you were in absolute agreement with everything Greg wrote and implied. So do we all, and for good reason. It's true

But you write the opposite with a sense of indignant outrage in direct opposition to how you yourself live.

I backspaced over my original response because you were nice to me when my cat died and I don't want to be thrown off the board.

You might want to put some cotton in your ears; your brain is overly crowded with stereotypes and they're leaking out of your head.

Eileen

Mon Nov 14, 2005 5:59 am

Don't backspace dear.......address. I don't fear it.

And if you are going to tell me that you would not cross to the other side of the street if you saw that pair coming..........you're less than honest.

Address the salient points........

Do your stats uphold your contentions??? No

Do you wander about seedy parts of town confident in the power of your statistics?? No

Do you stride purposefully and fearlessly toward a group of young, poor, minority men who may well harbor animosity towards you because of your race whether or not you reciprocate those feelings? No

Theory and what-ifs are wonderful. But you don't believe what you wrote, unless you can answer the questions in the affirmative.

This is not a commentary on you directly.........just the mindset you espouse but cannot live in practicality.

It's a debate..........it should incite you to examine yourself, and whether you actually walk the walk.

I contend you do not..........because you cannot. Common sense may well be uncommon. But unless it is absent, you cannot live what you espouse because it presupposes too much from someone you do not know.
It is unsafe
It is unwise
It is derived from an unexamined heart.

I defy you to show me an example of racial prejudice in any of my 1500 or so posts. But it lurks in each of us, no matter how hard we may deny it or seek to subjugate it.

It lurks in you too. And the way you react in real life to the situations I described should make that evident to you.

Some are simply too afraid to face that fact...........or fail to recognize it in themselves. It is only clear to them in others.

The unexamined life is not worth living.

I'm the same person who commiserated with you over the death of your cats. I'm still someone who hates prejudice. I hate it in others. I'm honest enough to see its remnants still in myself despite all my efforts. And I hate it there too.

I'm just not afraid to face it...........and I'm not afraid to tell you that it exists in you as well, because you are human.

How you react in life to the situations I described will whisper that fact to you.......if you're honest enough to listen for it.

Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:06 am

I think now is a very good time for everyone on this thread to take two Panexas!!
sue

Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:21 pm

Scatter, you are under the mistaken impression that you know much more than you actually do about the lives of those you address here. Any discussion we might have had you derailed yourself by drowning your grain of a point in an ooze of errant and condescending assumptions.

silver wrote:I think now is a very good time for everyone on this thread to take two Panexas!!

Good idea Sue, I'll do that!

Eileen

Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:33 am

Eileen wrote:Scatter, you are under the mistaken impression that you know much more than you actually do about the lives of those you address here. Any discussion we might have had you derailed yourself by drowning your grain of a point in an ooze of errant and condescending assumptions.

silver wrote:I think now is a very good time for everyone on this thread to take two Panexas!!

Good idea Sue, I'll do that!

Eileen


No Eileen.........you are mistaken. You presented yourself in this thread as one who stands above any sort of racism or racist tendencies.

You are not.

You have racism within you. We ALL do. It is the human condition. It is a struggle that the noble fight, but which can never be won. That is not a preconceived notion........it is objective fact.

Your refusal to admit as much is telling.

So you are without any trace of racism??? Then answer the questions. You do not because the answers would betray you if given honestly.

So you dodge. You evade.

Your race or gender make no difference to the essential paradigm. If you are white, you may hold preconceived notions about Blacks.Or vice versa. If you are Asian.........possibly against Europeans.
If you are wealthy......against the poor.
If you are educated.......perhaps against those less so.
If male, against female.
If heterosexual, against homosexual. But it is there in some form.

Your defensiveness and sensitivity, along with your refusal to address the points( except to issue thinly veiled insult),shows that you are either dishonest with us or with yourself. I suspect it is likely the latter. More the pity.

I suspect that the vast majority who have followed this exchange have already at some point in life assessed themselves on this issue. I am confident that those who have.........have found themselves lacking.

All except you.

Objectify......compartmentalize......redefine.......rationalize. Defense mechanisms all. But the root is there no matter how you may obscure the issue to keep yourself from facing it squarely.

So be it. To thine own self be true.

Barring that.........deny,deny,deny.

And demean. Let's not forget demean.

Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:19 am

Scatter -
After reading your thought provoking post I pondered it deeply and came to the happy conclusion that I'm not prejudiced.

I love wealthy, educated, female homosexuals! Trouble is, they just ain't too fond of me. :shock:

Tue Nov 15, 2005 3:23 pm

Scatter wrote:No Eileen.........you are mistaken.

I did err. I was wrong to think your assumptions about my life were mistaken. You would have had to consciously consider me a person first, and living a life next, and you've made it very clear that such considerations are well outside your train of thought.

Eileen

Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:36 pm

Pete Dube wrote:Scatter -
After reading your thought provoking post I pondered it deeply and came to the happy conclusion that I'm not prejudiced.

I love wealthy, educated, female homosexuals!
Trouble is, they just ain't too fond of me. :shock:


What has all this got to do with Eileen ?

Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:06 pm

Colin -
Absolutely nothing, and I didn't mean to suggest anything!

Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:09 pm

Eileen wrote:
Scatter wrote:No Eileen.........you are mistaken.

I did err. I was wrong to think your assumptions about my life were mistaken. You would have had to consciously consider me a person first, and living a life next, and you've made it very clear that such considerations are well outside your train of thought.

Eileen


Yet another thinly-veiled insult......yet the salient points remain unaddressed. Interesting.........and telling.

Whatever epiphany you have encountered which you believe renders you immune to the human condition would be interesting to explore. But of course you are not inclined to do so.

Let me ask you one final question, and I will cease trying to reach you here.

Have you ever encountered someone of a different race and had a prejudicial thought pop into your head??? One you found abhorrent.......one you consciously resisited as any good person would??

Now, assuming that you are not exempt from the occasional distasteful thought........which may be too much to assume in light of your previous replies.......Where did such thoughts spring from???

Were they injected into your mind from without, or did they arise from within??

To hold yourself guiltless, you must respond that they arose from without since your heart alone is free from prejudice.

In that case, I would suggest that you promptly fit yourself with a tin-foil hat to guard your mind from the alien influences that are introducing such thoughts. A seat on the Presley Commission awaits you.

If you deny those fleeting thoughts originate from outside, then they self evidently arose from within. From within you. From the depths of your heart.

How then do such thoughts arise from a heart as pure as your own?? Or do you further deny that such distasteful and aberrant thoughts ever cross your mind???

You are left on the horns of a dilemma.

If you contend that such thoughts originate from outside your own purportedly virginal being.......you have placed yourself on the lunatic fringe.

If you contend that such thoughts have never and do never cross your mind..........your credibility is destroyed, for we all know better.

If you admit that ( like the rest of the human race) these thoughts do indeed cross your mind, and they do not originate from without........then you admit that they originate from within your own heart. How then do such thoughts proceed from a heart where no such prejudice exists??

I expect no thoughtful response. I have no previous basis to expect one.

It's your turn.........dodge and demean.

Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:18 pm

Scatter wrote:In that case, I would suggest that you promptly fit yourself with a tin-foil hat to guard your mind from the alien influences that are introducing such thoughts. A seat on the Presley Commission awaits you.


Ok, that was amusing :lol:

This is getting a little persecutory though Scatter. I'm sure most of us don't self-analyse to the degree you are expecting. Give the woman a break :wink:

Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:26 pm

Scatter -

You wrote [edited for space]:
Let me ask you one final question, and I will cease trying to reach you here.

Have you ever encountered someone of a different race and had a prejudicial thought pop into your head???

One you found abhorrent.......one you consciously resisited as any good person would??

Now, assuming that you are not exempt from the occasional distasteful thought........which may be too much to assume in light of your previous replies.......Where did such thoughts spring from???

Were they injected into your mind from without, or did they arise from within??

How then do such thoughts arise from a heart as pure as your own??

Or do you further deny that such distasteful and aberrant thoughts ever cross your mind???


If you admit that ( like the rest of the human race) these thoughts do indeed cross your mind, and they do not originate from without........then you admit that they originate from within your own heart. How then do such thoughts proceed from a heart where no such prejudice exists??


Err..... that's seven questions, actually.

Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:38 pm

Evilution at work.

Rising above primitive prejudices is part of our evolution.

Do I worry when passing a group of dark skinned students as much as I would passing a group of white thugs?

Would you rather your daughter marry a black doctor or a white drug dealer.

Do we recognise the savage within hiding beneath a superficial skin of learning?
Can I stop thinking of rabid Mormons converting us all.

Wow! I could go on and on, but I'll leave that to those who go on, and on, at the drop of a hat.

Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:32 pm

MauriceinIreland wrote:Would you rather your daughter marry a black doctor or a white drug dealer.


Which makes the most cash??

























Kidding :wink: