Off Topic Messages

Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:44 pm

The departmentalisation of music is a nonsense!

Imagine Art Galleries with just the Great Masters and no Impressionists Picassos.................... Or Andy Warhol's Elvis.

In the homes of most music lovers you will find the most eclectic mix of artists imaginable.

Our very own little Hall of Fame:-) (Some not so little either!)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 10:56 pm

likethebike" wrote:
I happen to believe that art rock and its off shoots are the biggest scam since (to paraphrase Cosmo Kramer) since one hour Martinizing. If there are two things that rock and roll is most definitely not about it is complicated chord structures and ostentatious displays of musicianship. I tell you right now the amount of ink that is wasted on acts like Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd, Queen (they're laughing at you not with you) and their spiritual cousins in lyric meisters like James Taylor, Crosby, Stills and Nash etc. is an absolute crime. You talk about missing the plot. I feel this music has been giving a loftier reputation than it deserves because fans feel guilty about enjoying popular music. They need to fool themselves that they are listening to poetry or music with near "classical" themes. Pop music has its own aesthetic that can hold its head high enough without being gussied up in a stream of pretensions.

I used to like Queen (in small doses, I still do), but
to your overall point :
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Well said!

...Not that I necessarily think that all acts I don't enjoy should not be in the Hall of Fame. I wouldn't listen to the Grateful Dead, the Eagles or later Aerosmith if you threatened to burn out my eye with a hot poker. However, I begrudgingly concede their influence. Same with the Doors, IMO, the most overrated artists in the entire history of rock music. Yet there's a whole school of bands out there that use them as a model. Same with Checker who wasn't would you call a great musician but the dance he popularized was a worldwide phenomenon and changed the way most people think about dancing.

"LOL" as Elvis' Babe and others would say!
I think you're wrong on the Doors, although I agree they got overhyped.

This is all why I have never been a big fan of the Rock and Roll HOF. In baseball, you sometimes have an argument about a given player's intangibles. In rock and roll, it is almost all intangibles. Not only is it hard to agree on what rock and roll is, it's impossible to agree what greatness. The rock hall seems to have a loose consensus of influence as a measuring stick. But as some people have pointed out that is like giving the top spot in the baseball Hall of Fame to the first batter who wore batting gloves. Then there's a difference in the size of influence. Elvis Presley and Ricky Nelson are not even comparable in terms of influence. But when he is not being compared to a performer of the Presley-Beatles- Berry- Dylan ilk, he stands pretty well on his own. Kept rockabilly on the charts long after it peaked, an important influence in gaining rock adult acceptance, an important influence on acts like John Fogerty, and a pioneer in the country rock movement. Yet he can't compare to Presley so even in the HOF there's a division. ...

Yeah, Sam Phillips had it right about the Rock'n'Roll Hall of Fame.

I know he fought hard to bring it to Memphis. I was dumbfounded
about the slim reed they used to justify it being in Cleveland. We all
know Memphis is the place, even now, without their building.

I know he got them in and up roar one year with his choice
comments on it being in Cleveland. Right on, Sam!

Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:52 pm

I don't have a problem with it not being in Memphis because Memphis already has the tourist attractions of Elvis, Sun and Beale Street. It may not be a 100 percent right to be in Cleveland but they deserve a tourist attraction to and the music was heavily promoted there before it caught on in the rest of the country.

Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:56 pm

Yes, but it does make a mockery of the real site of the birth of R&R,
plus related musics centered there like blues, soul and rockabilly.

And Memphis kind of deserved it. They've come along way since 1988 or '92 when that got rolling - in spite of it, I suppose.

I don't know that Cleveland "deserves" a tourist site.

At this point I suppose it's moot. Thankfully Memphis has some decent museums and far outdoes the RRHOF. Haven't seen it yet and may never.

Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:12 am

Some would make the same argument though for New York City (where the vocal group sound prospered) or New Orleans (of course given what happened it's great that the museum is not there). I use the phrase "deserves" because I think every city has right to prosper and, especially in the service driven economy that we have now, a major tourist attraction can spell the difference between disaster and prosperity.

Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:16 am

Well, sure. It's criminal what we did to our urban cores, effectively abandoning them and urging / supporting suburbanization...

But Cleveland just seemed to obscure ..and it's not like
Memphis didn't want it... I think hands down Memphis deserved it
based on Elvis alone, the Sun label alone, etc...

Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:18 am

Welcome to Cleveland..... the "mistake by the lake".

Not that it matters. The real R&R Hall of Fame is Graceland.

Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:31 am

EagleUSA, " The real R&R Hall of Fame is Graceland."

And Tupelo.

Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:32 am

KHoots wrote:First and foremost, I would love to see Lynyrd Skynyrd inducted. They were a tremendously talented bunch, great writers and performers. Very influential on other acts, as well.

I totally agree - I would love to see this as well...

I don't agree with the author about Ritchie Valens - he should've been inducted sooner. I do agree about The Guess Who...

Other bands that should make it in are Grand Funk Railroad, Heart, Van Halen, and KISS.


Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:24 am

If memory serves Elvis received more votes than anyone else for the first go round of inductions into the rock & roll hall of fame.

Personally, I still feel strongly that the hall should have been in Memphis. Rock & roll was born in the south and Memphis was THE southern r&r city. The only other southern city that can make a reasonable claim is New Orleans.

LTB - I share your disdain of the art-rock or progressive rock pretentious crapola, but the Moody Blues do have some classic tunes (Nights In White Satin; Question), and are a long-lived, still popular band so I wouldn't be against their inclusion.

Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:13 am

EagleUSA wrote: The real R&R Hall of Fame is Graceland.

Amen to that brother... 8)

Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:25 am

Rich_TCB wrote:Other bands that should make it in are Grand Funk Railroad, Heart, Van Halen, and KISS.


Grand Funk totally rocks! I have always liked those guys! Put on a Grand Funk Railroad CD in your car and you can't go wrong! Anyone up for a little foot stompin music!? YEAAAA!!

Elvis fan

Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:30 am

Personally I think the Hall of Fame is a joke... I think it's mostly high dollar inversters... that just wanted something to do with their money and to rub elbows with the music stars they like... I think they put it in Cleveland because they didn't want any tourist competion like they would have in Memphis(the real home of Rock and Roll!)...... who the hell wants to go to Cleveland???? :roll:

Elvis fan

Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:54 am

I haven't been there but the problem that many fans report and a problem you can see in HOF literature and HOF events is that anything outside the Holy Late 60s/early 70s baby boomer Icons- Zeppelin, Dylan, later Beatles, Who, Stones, Doors etc. is merely tolerated. The early rockers may as well be cavemen and the stuff is merely tolerated. And even acts from the same generation like Black Sabbath (not my choice of the entertaining act but hugely influential) and Skynyrd that came from different traditions or carved a place in a different niche' are baffling to the voters.

Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:49 pm

I suspect it all meets approval with the likes of ROLLING STONE's
Jan Wenner.

Even when the congratulate the '50s ("Cavemen" as you aptly put it),
the term "pioneering" is used too much as a back-handed compliment...

"Paving the way"...for the Beatles, the Stones, etc. :roll:

That it ended up in Cleveland to me seems about right. :lol:
(No 'fense...)

Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:10 pm

Cleveland was "ordained" for the HOF because of Alan Freed
who legend has it coined the phrase "rock and roll"
(he didn't - it was around before he used it)

but the irony is: in the early 50s, Freed LEFT CLEVELAND AND MOVED TO NEW YORK - where he did his Rock radio show and live concerts ----- in NYC

Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:20 pm

Yeah, Freed is the guy.

I know the story and his legend.

But it's so-half-baked to make that the cornerstone of it...!

I'm sure it's a fine city (once they put the fires on the lake out years
ago), but home of rock history?

I guess they had to put the archives somewhere. :roll: :twisted:
Were you there when Elvis played at Cleveland's Brooklyn High School in October 1955?

A non-profit organization, "Takin care of Business Association" (TCB Assoc.) is looking for people who attended a concert at Brooklyn High school on October 20, 1955. Performers included Elvis, Pat Boone, the Four Lads, Priscilla Wright and Bill Haley and the Comets. The TCB association is interested in speaking with people about their experience and sharing photos. Please contact Kathy Keough at 216-661-1042 or Kellie Smiddie at

In fairness, at least they have this on the site.

Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:12 am

JEFF d wrote:
Rich_TCB wrote:Other bands that should make it in are Grand Funk Railroad, Heart, Van Halen, and KISS.


Grand Funk totally rocks! I have always liked those guys! Put on a Grand Funk Railroad CD in your car and you can't go wrong! Anyone up for a little foot stompin music!? YEAAAA!!

Elvis fan

Finally :!: :!: :!:

someone who likes and agrees with me about the peoples "AMERICAN" band Grand Funk :!: 8)