Off Topic Messages

OT: What do you think

Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:40 am

I'm a little bit confused with some things that are happenning in my website http://www.elvisconcerts.com and I was wondering what you guys think.

After many years having the website online , a person wants to help me wit the CD section. He updates some CDs and add some others. Things go really well and the guy creates a CDR section for me. I help him with the design and numerous other things, but mainly he creates the CDR section from scratch. Then things go bad for some reason and leaves.

He leaves to another website with all "our files", I will understand to a certain point that about the CDR section but the complete CD section too?

The second scenario is the elvisconcerts.com database. Someone helps me A LOT with a database creating the design and the PHP files. We work together and I gave him what fields I wanted, what really wanted to do. The work is really extensive and to accomplish it, we spend long hours entering data and doing some other things. Would it be right also for this person install everything in his website w/out permission and even copying all the picture section so it can be linked from his page? So not only the php files were copied but also all the information and all the picture section with more than 1000 pictures.

Maybe I should let them use all this information since one time they helped me ? even thou some things were not even remotely created by them?

Just to see what other people think


Francesc

Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:51 am

Fransesc -

Looks like they've done the dirty on you.

A betrayal of your trust.

Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:09 am

Francesc wrote:I'm a little bit confused with some things that are happenning in my website http://www.elvisconcerts.com and I was wondering what you guys think.

After many years having the website online , a person wants to help me wit the CD section. He updates some CDs and add some others. Things go really well and the guy creates a CDR section for me. I help him with the design and numerous other things, but mainly he creates the CDR section from scratch. Then things go bad for some reason and leaves.

He leaves to another website with all "our files", I will understand to a certain point that about the CDR section but the complete CD section too?

The second scenario is the elvisconcerts.com database. Someone helps me A LOT with a database creating the design and the PHP files. We work together and I gave him what fields I wanted, what really wanted to do. The work is really extensive and to accomplish it, we spend long hours entering data and doing some other things. Would it be right also for this person install everything in his website w/out permission and even copying all the picture section so it can be linked from his page? So not only the php files were copied but also all the information and all the picture section with more than 1000 pictures.

Maybe I should let them use all this information since one time they helped me ? even thou some things were not even remotely created by them?

Just to see what other people think


Francesc


I think that would be awful if that were true, but I know that only some of that is true and the rest of the truth has been omitted and some parts are just not accurate at all.

I can assure you that as far as the database goes all the data has been compiled from scratch and doesn't match what you have.

The php files were re-written and includes other info and does not include info you have.

I did get permission from you because you suggested I have it as well.

I was disappointed in that having done all the work you couldn't be bothered to look after it by having a back up. So when you accidentally deleted it and asked me to redo it I did so on the basis that I would run my own version so that at least I would know if you decided to trash it all again and not be bothered to have backed ti up that my work would be safe.

All the data is based upon Ciscokings CD and CD-R collection. You will probably find that you have additional concert info that I don't because Cisco doesn't have the relevant CD for it.
Ciscoking did not use the files from you at all for the CD and CD-R section. All the files we recreated by me from scratch as I didn't think what you used fitted or was withn keeping with my site.
The entire files are 100% original in coding structure and again include interaction via audio links to over 100 performances, they do this because they were written from scratch.

I contributed to your site, so did Cisco and others and we used your forum to enhance the work we had done for you on your site. You decided to delete your forum and deny us the oportunity to carry on as we had done.

We then went elsewhere.

The only thing that I would say warrants any kind of grounds for complaint by you is the pictures. Those were downloaded by me originally when working on the database for you so that I could run a localhost server on my PC.
Also, we had CD-R covers made for us by cover designers where no cover existed. within a day or two you also had the same picture -amazing!

Your site wasn't the first to have an elvis concerts database, Marc from elvis-presley-superstar.de had one when he went php format, now since under a newer domain name. Mine is differnet and now includes links to other sections as I've spent the past 6 months revamping all the code with the way ti worlks so that it interacts with other parts of my site and also now includes aduio links from over 100 concerts as well as video links to songs performed.

I can prove that the html scripts are totally different as I will post one on here if you wish and you can do the same and we can compare.

Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:16 am

You dont need to prove anything. The html sure is different but not the pictures.

I hope you dont change any of my messages like you did with Thomas yesterday.

BTW I didnt say that my database was the only one or the first one.

Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:28 am

So do you acknowledge that you lied initially and now say that everything I have said is the truth ?

Do you specificly acknowledge that whilst you made a number of accusations in your opening post the only one that was true was the one I said myself was true and that was that the pictures are the same ?

The only other thing that is the same regarding the database is the idea of a database and one which I said was not new to me at all as I believe marc had one on the site I mentioned.

Did you also say to me months ago that you had nothing more you were going to say on the matter ?

I still say that for me to have given you 4 months of time to create it for you in the first place the least you could have done was to have backed your database up in case you accidentally delted it.

I now understand that that was too much to have expected from you. I really don't see that having dome that to me and then I managed to redo the data for you! that you have any ground for any complaint at all, never mind what you did with all the work Leroy had done on your forum for you - you just deleted it without any consultation or warning.

Take responsibility for your own actions and the consequences of them. I'm not saying you were wrong to do what you did just that if you stab people in the back they just might not wish to walk in front of you anymore.

Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:34 am

The permission was if I remove my database if I recall correctly. I was not going to say anything else becuase you took the database off now it is on again.


Francesc

Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:36 am

now understand that that was too much to have expected from you. I really don't see that having dome that to me and then I managed to redo the data for you! that you have any ground for any complaint at all, never mind what you did with all the work Leroy had done on your forum for you - you just deleted it without any consultation or warning.


Not true I said that the forum was going down.

Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:38 am

Yes, that's right, that's how I recall it.

It is not back again.

The database I have is completely re-writtten from scratch with regard the concert data and the php coding......see the post above as I've already explained this.

Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:05 am

This looks like a thread that would be a lot more efficiently and discreetly handled in PMs.

As far as most of us are concerned, you're both the tops. Why jeopardize that?

I'd obliterate this thread if I were you.

Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:07 am

True. Actually I wanted some opinions about it.

Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:10 am

Very interesting discussion.

How do you obliterate threads? I could do with having that kind of power:-)
Last edited by MauriceinIreland on Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:13 am

That maybe so.

But we tried PMing about it a few months ago.

Whilst I appreciate Francesc wanted opinions it was only fair that I should point out the truth so that peoples opinions would be one which was what they thought of the truth and not what they thought of Francescs first post.

I never did think it would be good to start a thread on such a thing and hence I never have done so.

Francesc thinks he was right to do what he did at the time and I think I was right to react to that the way I did at the time.

Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:05 am

ColinB wrote:Francesc -

Looks like they've done the dirty on you.

A betrayal of your trust.


Obviously there's more to this than I knew when I wrote the above !

Seems it is more complicated.

Too complicated to take sides really.

You are both respected figures on here, so coming to any judgement is even harder !

Why not make friends and be done with it ?

Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:23 am

I'm not going to suggest that we make friends over night, but I was under the impression we had parted ways to do our own thing and therefore neither of us were concentrating on being enemies.

I have spent 6 months along with Ciscoking doing the work which is on my site, we put that amount of time in because we made an effort to do all the data from scratch and not use anyone elses existing data except that which is on the individual CD's. The danger with using others data is that not only do you copy correct data you can also copy incorrect data.

I specialise in video footage of Elvis.
Francesc has spent time pulling together reviews and newspaper articles from concerts.

I constructed Francesc's database to allow for links to be inserted to his reviews and articles, mine does not include such a facility and instead mine is built to highlight the videos I have available and audio links from over 100 shows.

What no one would know yet is that on my site this is just one module of a bigger project in which this particular database will be integrated with another. The "A Date With Elvis - The New Chronology" is also now available on my site though the version currently on line is a basic database built on the same principal as the concerts one but will have access to over 8000 pieces of daily info based upon Elvis' life not just the concerts.

Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:26 pm

Steve_M wrote:we made an effort to do all the data from scratch and not use anyone elses existing data except that which is on the individual CD's.


So are you saying that you started everything from scratch? Not only the tracklistings but also the Elvis jumpsuits, cities where Elvis played, tours ... ?

Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:54 pm

Yes, everything was rechecked but I don't claim to have done this all on my own.
Rather than rely on just one source which seemed to have many inaccuracies other sources were used, including Leroy on the jumpsuits and other concert sites including elvis-presley-superstar.de and elvis-in-concert.com.

When I say from scratch I mean the database of info was empty and it was filled again field by field.

Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:02 pm

Well then it is really curious that some data was entered exactly like in my page, I guess we type a like ! when you have time take all the concert pictures please. and I'll take the covers I got from your page.

Thank you.

Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:03 pm

Well that's because we would have used that as the source in that instance, just copy and paste that into the field.

no real mystery there.

Also, every site lists a differnet number of shows, we are at I think 1149 others are at 1135 and you are at 1145 I think.

Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:06 pm

Jordans-Elvis-World wrote:I'm going to be an unbiased as humanly possible as I've know both Francesc and Steve since the "start", when there was just a handfull of Elvis sites on the internet.
To my knowledge Steve had written the database structure from scratch, the company he worked for was so impressed by it they asked for him to implement a similiar database structure within his company (non elvis related). Then somehow the data all got erased from econcerts and steve again helped to get it back up. Now I remember vividly what the database and it's contents looked like on the econcerts site - and the newer version that's now online at crawler is much much different, with more details/artwork than on the previous version.
Instead of everyone crying "foul" I would love to see a peace treaty go into effect. In the end it all boils down to the fact we are in this to further promote and educate the wonderful legacy Elvis has left us to the rest of the fans.
If I'm incorrect in any of my assumptions I truly apologize.
I call for a truce.. You guys with me?



Like Jordan says, let's have a peace treaty. Both of you guys rock.

Let's work it out. With RCA ("Hitstory") and EPE (hawking jumpsuits!)
clearly not on the fans' side, we need you both to counteract that,
in the spirit of your colleagues Jordan and Keith Flynn and others! :D

Image
Image

Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:09 pm

No. That's because you didnt start from scratch.

Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:20 pm

Yes we did, that's how we've ended up with a differnet set of data as well, additional bits and also other bits not included this time as well as a differnet number of shows.

The only thing that was left as it was were the pictures and as you know this used a different table altogether in the database to the concert data. One table was called "pictures" and the other was called "concerts" on your server, on mine the table you know as concerts isn't known as that.

But irrespective of all of that, the very reason this situation is where it is is because of your actions in the first place. You chose not to be bothered to look after the work I created by not giving a damn about backing your database up.
Know what you see is the consequences of your actions. You must be prepared as an adult to be repsonsible for your actions, whether good bad or indifferent. All I can see is someone who made a mistake and wants me to have picked up the pieces for him and suffered the consequences of his actions.

You insulted me and now you complain because I didn't want anything more to do with you. Well that's the way it is when you do things like that to people. Next time someone gives you something perhaps you will look after it and not insult them. From what I see of this thread though you need to be told this because you didn't seem to learn by your mistake.

I have tried to be reasonable. I didn't fly off the handle when you opened this thread with lies and half truths and only a tiny hint of fact. I spelled it out exactly how it was without even being bias towards myself so that everyone could see the full and true picture and that still wasn't good enough for you.

I just don't know what else to say to you. You're still not happy - fine. Stay miserable then.

I tried.

Also, I work with many people in the Elvis world, on websites and on other projects. Whilst I never always agree with what they think, do or say I've always got on with all of them who I've worked with and to this day I still do because of the mutual repsect between us, all except one person that is. Noww do you really think that you must be right and that I and all the others are wrong ?
Maybe you do I guess.......
Last edited by Steve_M on Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:24 pm

Nice, now let's change the subject and it is all my fault. Change also the contents of my message so accomodates your excuses.

Delete the pictures!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:29 pm

Well I was merely saying how it came about. It was either your fault for not backing up the data or it was someone elses.

Well ? Who was it ? You or someone else ?

Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:32 pm

Steve_M wrote:
The only thing that was left as it was were the pictures and as you know this used a different table altogether in the database to the concert data. One table was called "pictures" and the other was called "concerts" on your server, on mine the table you know as concerts isn't known as that.

.



Really so you really started from scratch . I really apologize then !!

Ah by the way where you do a search by state ... Iowa IA .... see how come we have the exact mistake ! I thought that you started from scratch ...

Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:34 pm

Steve_M wrote:Well I was merely saying how it came about. It was either your fault for not backing up the data or it was someone elses.

Well ? Who was it ? You or someone else ?


It was my fault that I didnt back up the data. That doesn't give you reason to copy and move everything to your server.