Off Topic Messages

Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:04 pm

well well wellllll!!! Looks like our genesimkins is wrong again. :lol: Minkahed was correct that tapping is the right hand hammer-ons done in harmonics!

Yea, genesimkins you can do right hand hammer-ons all over the fret board, but for it to actually be considered TAPPING it has to be the harmonics.

Like minkahed said, to check out some true TAPPING and not right hand hammer-ons(via Eruption) check out Women In Love on Van Halen II CD.

I wonder if genesimkins will be man enough to admit he was wrong again? :lol: :lol: :lol:

JEFF d
Elvis fan

Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:46 pm

Just to be clear -- not trying to be referee or player in this. Couldn't if I wanted to. I'm just learning about it myself.

Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:27 am

Let me see, so I post a Wikipedia example, as well as knowing Guitar magazine and many other CREDIBLE sources...and you believe a f*cking message board post Jeff D????

Ok, Eddie didn't tap on the first record, cause dilbert dumbass said it is so.

Just like minkahed, you act as if ignorance is a virtue.

Well you can lead a horse to water...

Now back to the "right handed hammeron" that is in no way "tapped" :roll:

The point was, and still is...ACE DID IT FIRST(abeit with the edge of his pick over the finger that tapped...oops..I mean hammered on! Jimi Hendrix and Brian May and many others of course did it. But neither did it to the extent that Ace did. And they certaintly didn't base several guitar solos off of it.

P.S. Jeff, in no way was Van Halen II as revolutionary as Eruption. That is where the real TAPPING is, and not a tapped harmonic that is limited and goes NO WHERE. Any guitar player knows that.

Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:41 am

I am curious about one thing though. Why does one pass up the hundreds of examples where Eddie is said to Tap on Eruption, and it is practically a household fact...but yet the few blogs that are against it...prove it to be so?

I honestly think that some would say they believe the world is flat just to disagree with me. :lol: :lol: :lol:

It is symantacs. A tap is just that. Something that is done with the finger.

A "hammer on" is when the finger frets a note in a quick "hammer down" of the fret before the strings starts ringing. But wait...a TAP is when you quickly TAP the string which is a combination of a Hammer On and Pull off! Why is this..because it hits a fret that the first hand could not possibly do while fretting another note higher on the neck.

Now do you guys get it? The fools that state that a "tap" is just a right handed hammer on are forgetting the basic concept that I just mentioned above. IDIOTS. THERE IS A "PULL OFF" INVOLVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:11 am

genesim wrote:
Ok, Eddie didn't tap on the first record, cause dilbert dumbass said it is so.


Noone said he didn't tap on the first record dipshit, jus not on ERUPTION :!: :lol:

Just like minkahed, you act as if ignorance is a virtue.


looks like your words are quite the opposite...

Well you can lead a horse to water...


yeh, yeh, more of your corny ass one liners...


The point was, and still is...ACE DID IT FIRST(abeit with the edge of his pick over the finger that tapped...oops..I mean hammered on! Jimi Hendrix and Brian May and many others of course did it. But neither did it to the extent that Ace did. And they certaintly didn't base several guitar solos off of it.


I said it be4, Billy Gibbons was the first to do a hammer on, oops, I mean Tap :!: :lol:

oh please, Don't even put ACE in the same league as Eddie. noone since Jimi Hendrix has one guitar player pushed the evolution of electric rock guitar forward globally as Van Halen's first debut in 1978. multi-faceted and unmistakable.

Edward broke such a vertiable watershed of everything from the riffs, hooks, and innovations that are exquisitely crafted and soulful. they don't even sound dated...

ACE WHO :?: :?: :?:

P.S. Jeff, in no way was Van Halen II as revolutionary as Eruption.


fair comment, but "Van Halen II" was an album. "Eruption" was a SOLO...

and be4 you say that there was nuthin' on VH's second record that could compare to Eruption, that's malarky...the evolution of Ed's majestry is in the music.

ironic statement to say the least. most fans of classic VH that I have known sight "VHII" as a much more inspiration for playing guitar than the first record. it's all subjective tho...


and by the way, I have a copy of an issue of Guitar World in my hands and the defintion for "Tap on Technique", it reads:

the concept involves using a right hand finger to fret notes in conjunction with left hand fretted notes, also known as HAMMER ON :!:

go get some rest now geno, you'll need it cuz I predict you'll be back real soon to display more of your ignorance.

must be a virtue of yours... :lol:

by the way, take it easy gene, I never said I didn't agree with you, I said I believe we're both right, remember :?:

Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:20 am

You guys are entertaining i hope you know! :lol: I side with Geno btw. he sent me some cool boots I still enjoy! hehehe give em hell man!

Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:28 am

So Minkahed, you disregard Wikipedia and the "pull off" that a tap displays.

I get it...we only name half of what the intended action does. :lol: :lol:

Face it, it doesn't matter what I say, you choose to stay ignorant.

As for Van Halen II being an album. DUH. Did I say any different?

I said Eruption as a solo is better the the Album as a WHOLE!

It is clear that you would rather nitpick and TRY to find something wrong by using Symantacs then actually admitting that you are clearly defeated.

Tell me why the "pull of" part isn't named, then you can talk. As it stands until you adress this, then you are blowing a bunch of hot air.

P.S. As far as the Ace comment..ask the average joe about Robert Johnson compared to Eddie and gee who do you think would be more popular???? Circular logic at its best.

Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:38 am

Kylan wrote:You guys are entertaining i hope you know! :lol: I side with Geno btw. he sent me some cool boots I still enjoy! hehehe give em hell man!



sheesh...what a crack kissa :!: :lol:

Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:58 am

genesim wrote:
Face it, it doesn't matter what I say, you choose to stay ignorant.


how do you figure dipshit :?: didn't I jus say I didn't say "I didn't disagree with you" :?: now who's being ignorant...

Van Halen II being an album. DUH. Did I say any different?


yes, you wrote: "in no way was Van Halen II as revolutionary as Eruption. That is where the real TAPPING is, and not a tapped harmonic that is limited and goes NO WHERE."

really :?: again, fair comment and I agree with that, but it is really subjective who is doing the listenin'...

and by the way, a tapped harmonic goes nowhere :?:

talk about babbling, last I knew harmonics added colour, decoration and variety to all styles of guitar playing. damn, your ingnorance on that one is baffling...

I said Eruption as a solo is better the the Album as a WHOLE!


didn't I jus say I predicted you would say that :?: :lol:

subjective...

Tell me why the "pull of" part isn't named, then you can talk. As it stands until you adress this, then you are blowing a bunch of hot air.


you never said anything about "pull off" to begin with. a pull off is when you pull off to sound the (second) lower note. not the same thing.

P.S. As far as the Ace comment..ask the average joe about Robert Johnson compared to Eddie and gee who do you think would be more popular???? Circular logic at its best.


uh, why are you bringing Robert Johnson into this :?: we were talking about ACE and Eddie, remember dicksnot :?:

besides, if we were talking about Blues music, or Blues guitar playing maybe, but not for Rock guitar...

talk about circular logic, no in your case, illogical logic is more like it :?:

Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:15 am

Here I will quote it again since you missed it the first time:

A "hammer on" is when the finger frets a note in a quick "hammer down" of the fret before the strings starts ringing. But wait...a TAP is when you quickly TAP the string which is a combination of a Hammer On and Pull off! Why is this..because it hits a fret that the first hand could not possibly do while fretting another note higher on the neck.

Now do you guys get it? The fools that state that a "tap" is just a right handed hammer on are forgetting the basic concept that I just mentioned above. IDIOTS. THERE IS A "PULL OFF" INVOLVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:30 pm

minkahed wrote:by the way, take it easy gene, I never said I didn't agree with you, I said I believe we're both right, remember


And then you wrote earlier:

Again, he doesn't NOT DO this on the original record version of ERUPTION, got it


and then you say:

Noone said he didn't tap on the first record dipshit, jus not on ERUPTION


So by your definition....where did Eddie do a "tapped" harmonic on the first record? Please tell me cause I am most curious.

Meanwhile, I will play devil's advocate. So is the solo on Eruption not revolutionary? Especially the "right handed hammer on" part?

If so, wouldn't Ace doing it on the massively successful Alive II record and several solo performances be at least admirable? Especially since he did it as way more then an accident. Have you even heard it?

Ace was a very good guitarist, and deserves alot more credit. I prefer him over Eddie, but I never said he was a better guitarist. You act as if he is NOTHING. And yes, I do compare Blues to Rock because they are very closely related. My point with Robert Johnston was that popularity doesn't mean a thing when it comes to being an innovator.

Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:55 pm

genesim wrote:So by your definition....where did Eddie do a "tapped" harmonic on the first record? Please tell me cause I am most curious.


2 examples that come to mind are Runnin' With The Devil and I'm The One.

So is the solo on Eruption not revolutionary? Especially the "right handed hammer on" part?


uh, duh, what have I been sayin' all along...please point out where I said that piece wasn't revolutionary..

If so, wouldn't Ace doing it on the massively successful Alive II record and several solo performances be at least admirable?


sure, of course, jus not on the same scale, or level Eddie took it too...

You act as if he is NOTHING.


please point out where I even said that. the only thing I said was I don't think he is in the same league, artistically or historically, as Ed.

remember, I am a KISS fan too.

My point with Robert Johnston was that popularity doesn't mean a thing when it comes to being an innovator.


totally agree with that comment, as long as you understand that Ed was jus as much the innovator Robert Johnson was/is...

Unfortunately, in this day and age, most young , new guitar players look up to these current bands like "Staind" , "Nickelback" and "Three Doors Down" and consider that style and playing to be innovative. :wink: :lol:

Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:24 pm

Looking closely at this 'tapping' debate, it starts to show some real hysterics. How can anyone seriously say Ace Frehley was as revolutionary, inventive or influential as Edward Van Halen? Obviously a blindly-devoted Kiss fan would as they think Kiss is at a level above all other artists in every way, but the reality is that while Ace was a quality player, he was not in the same league as Edward. Sadly Edward has become somewhat of a washed up joke, but his brilliance from VH1 to Fair Warning cannot be denied.

Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:47 pm

Personally, I'd take Robert Johnson (himself more of a composite
of other influences) and fellow bluesmen like Robert Lockwood, Elmore James, Muddy Waters, Albert King, B.B. Otis Rush, as well as Scotty Moore or James Burton over most heavy-metal acts.

Count me as a fan of the "less is more" school, where one note can say
a lot more than technical, even athletic "work-outs" that over-whem the song and often mask soul-less singing.

That said, I do like some of the work of Jimmy Page, and Eddie Van Halen, and of course, Jimi Hendrix.


To each his own, as always!

Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:35 am

minkahed wrote:2 examples that come to mind are Runnin' With The Devil and I'm The One.


WRONG! Neither has a tapped harmonic. The first tapped harmonics done by Eddie appeared on Van Halen II. Spanish Fly and Women in Love are two prominent examples. I have both books, and I also have my ears. There is simply no such example on the first album. I think this is a pitiful excuse to back out of the corner you put yourself into.

But getting back to this "right handed hammer on" thing. I am asking to pay close attention to my rationale....as well as most guitarist in the know.

So you claim that it should be labeled a "hammer on". Well let me show you how it is rediculous.

A hammer on does not necessarily have to be a pull off. As you well know, a hammer on can be followed by another hammer on, before it is pulled off.

The same cannot be true of a "tap" with the index finger that Eddie does on Eruption(+thats right. Look at the tablature, look at his playing. You never did explain to me how he jumped that many frets without tapping!+).

It is IMPOSSIBLE to follow up with a hammer on unless you incorporate another finger. But Eddie doesn't do this!(well very often anyway, and certaintly not on his earlier albums)

If you wanna talk Jennifer Batton or Stanley Jorden, then there you may have a point, but as it stands Eddie "taps" the note by first hammering on, then PULLING OFF. Only an idiot would insist that this isn't the definition of tapping.

After all the word TAP means a hesitation. Certainly a "tapped" harmonic also fits the bill, but it is not the standard of which all guitarist copied.

midnightx,

Did I ever say that Ace was as influential?? DID I EVER ONCE SAY IT!!!

I said that Ace tapped first, and Eddie's Eruption is derivative...and it came out a year later. Listen to the Shock Me Solo on Alive II where he taps with his pick. They are very similar, and only a deaf man couldn't hear it.

Ace may not have had the impact that Eddie had, but he certainly was a big influence on guitar players everywhere. That is why he is mentioned by name in the Cheap Trick and Weezer song. Ace is cited as an influence by many. Funny how Eddie actually comes out and says he isn't. :lol: :lol:

Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:46 am

genesim wrote:
Ace may not have had the impact that Eddie had, but he certainly was a big influence on guitar players everywhere. That is why he is mentioned by name in the Cheap Trick and Weezer song.


genesimkins.... please tell me what Cheap Trick song Ace Frehley is mentioned by name? It's certainly not Surrender "rolling numbers, rock and rolling, got my Kiss records out". Is that what you are babbling on about???? :lol: :lol: :lol:

JEFF d
Elvis fan

Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:54 am

genesim wrote:
minkahed wrote:2 examples that come to mind are Runnin' With The Devil and I'm The One.


WRONG! Neither has a tapped harmonic. The first tapped harmonics done by Eddie appeared on Van Halen II. Spanish Fly and Women in Love are two prominent examples. I have both books...



so, I'm wrong, huh :?:

explain this dicksnot:

on Runnin' With The Devil, Ed uses open harmonic fills, often to punctuate a solo phrase with a chime like quality.

an example of this spells out a scalar type melody, or an E minor pentatonic line with an added ninth: F#.

now, onto I'm The One...

Eddie exploits 2 perfect 4th chord sounds-the result of an open A, D and G string harmonics-against a basic A minor tonal center.

The final harmonic is decorated with a tremolo bar dipping, sumthin' EDDIE is very well known for...

There is simply no such example on the first album.


I jus showed you 2 examples... :wink:

and I also have my ears.


better get them checked or invest in some Q-Tips real soon... :wink:

I think this is a pitiful excuse to back out of the corner you put yourself into.


na, I think you continue to do that on your own jus fine... :wink:

Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:30 pm

Jeff D,

You are right again. Ooops. And so that makes Ace less relevant? Gee KISS was only mentioned. :lol: :lol: What is the last song that mentioned Queen by name? Or Brian May at all. :lol: :lol:


minkahed,

No those both aren't examples of tapped harmonics. STRAIGHT harmonics are a different story all together. Though I wasn't there, so anything is possible. Though I highly doubt it considering the phrase. Most people agree that he didn't do it till Van Halen II.

As for the name calling, this is typical of someone who is backed into a corner. Notice you avoid my reasoning on the "pull off" like the plague.

What is funny to me is the fact that you wanna stick to the pitiful view that Eddie didn't tap on Eruption. How can someone stay ignorant despite given logic and reasing stating otherwise? Wikipedia told you, even your own tablature tells you(hence the "T" with any Wolf Marshall transcription).

Look dude I tried.

But again, if Ace did it first, why shouldn't he get some recoginition? He was clearly an inspiration for many guitarist and Kiss was a little more then just a fleeting band of the 70's. Without them the likes of Van Halen may never have happened. It was obvious that KISS opened alot of doors. That is where I feel they nix Queen. Not just some poll on an Elvis board.

Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:54 pm

genesim wrote:
No those both aren't examples of tapped harmonics. STRAIGHT harmonics are a different story all together. Though I wasn't there, so anything is possible. Though I highly doubt it considering the phrase. Most people agree that he didn't do it till Van Halen II.


Like I said genesimkins... your the one that keeps insisting that Eddie TAPPED on Eruption! LOLOL :lol: Or are you trying to say that Eruption is on Van Halen II album now??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

JEFF d
Elvis fan

Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:00 pm

genesim wrote:
Jeff D,
You are right again.
Ooops. And so that makes Ace less relevant?


If you could just keep that in your mind as a given... it would save you a lot of time! :lol: :lol: :lol:

"rollin numbers, rock and rolling got my Ace Frehley records out" is not how the song goes dumbass.

JEFF d
Elvis fan

Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:18 am

...

Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:06 am

Jeff D, you call me the simkins and you can't put one and one together.

Most people agree that he didn't do TAPPED HARMONICS till Van Halen II.

I never suggested that Eruption was on VHII!!! What the f*ck are you smoking??

As for the record. Yes Jerry, I admitted my error. So what is the point in telling me again other then to act like an assshole?

Though unlike two people on this thread, at least I can admit to a mistake.

Eddie tapped on Eruption and most people that know anything about Guitar, know it to be so.

Of course it is obvious that Jerry and Minkahed are not like most people. They still think the world is flat. :lol:

Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:42 am

Minkahed are not like most people.


aw...thanks for the compliment geno :!:

I know I am an original and not a follower.

remember, you can't tarnish GOLD my friend.

Thanks again. :wink:

Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:36 pm

Not a follower...yeah right. You are the Einstein that thinks that Eddie doesn't "tap" because of a current trend.

Yet you have not even taken the time to reason it out yourself.

Still waiting on why the "pull off" isn't adressed. Do you read music, and which magazine did you pull the scalle progression description. :lol:

Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:53 pm

genesim wrote:Not a follower...yeah right. You are the Einstein that thinks that Eddie doesn't "tap" because of a current trend.

Yet you have not even taken the time to reason it out yourself.

Still waiting on why the "pull off" isn't adressed. Do you read music, and which magazine did you pull the scalle progression description. :lol:


damn, you are so predictable...

I had a feelin' you'd have to respond back and make one of your famous whiny ass lil complaints...

You are the Einstein


why, Thank You again...

really, I appreciate the level of respect and love you are showing me...

Still waiting on why the "pull off" isn't adressed.


I already did douche, but you choose to stay blind and not comprehend.

which magazine did you pull the scalle progression description.


I already told you about 5 posts behind, can't u read :?: :wink:

sadly, this discussion is jus getting to be old and boring... :roll:

I bet you wake up first thing in the morning and run to your computer jus to check out who replied last, so u can try and get the last word in... :lol: :lol: :lol:

you know gene, I sense that you must be a real lonely kind of person, but there is a life outside this board. you outta get out and look at the sky, the trees, the clouds, etc etc... sometime :!: :D

watch and see, gene will be back real soon... :wink: