Off Topic Messages

Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:10 am

Bon Jovi is still hangin' tight after a second week at #9 and selling another quite impressive 87,000 units :!:

Not bad, considering their were 6 "new" entries in the Top 10 this week :!:

How many other 80's "hair" bands, (I hate that term), are still around cranking out "new" music, still peaking at #2 and staying in the Top 10 for a second week out with combined sales of almost 300,000 :?:

good for them... :P

Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:36 am

Keep in mind one thing. Doesn't Bon Jovi have all their original members? It sure helps.

Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:56 am

genesim wrote:Keep in mind one thing. Doesn't Bon Jovi have all their original members? It sure helps.


I'm not quite so sure how that helps... :?:

You mean to tell me Bon Jovi is still successful in 2005 because they still have 4 out of the original 5 band members :?:

so, I get it, a bunch of people sittin' around saying, "Hey, let's go buy the new Bon Jovi cd cuz they still have Tico, Richie, Jon and David in the group..." :?:

A major factor in their success could also have sumthin' to do with the lead singer, ya think :?: :lol:

Alec, the original bass player, quit the band shortly after the release of CROSSROADS in late '94, early '95...

Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:19 am

Actually I didn't know the bass player quit, but my point is that there is still original chemistry.

YES this matters. Whether fans outwardly express it or not. After all wasn't it the ORIGINAL band that brought them fame to begin with?

There are some exceptions, but this is not the rule.

Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:09 am

genesim wrote:Actually I didn't know the bass player quit, but my point is that there is still original chemistry.

YES this matters. Whether fans outwardly express it or not. After all wasn't it the ORIGINAL band that brought them fame to begin with?

There are some exceptions, but this is not the rule.


please elaborate for me gene. your not being specific enough.

original chemistry is a good point, (even tho they've used other producers and writers over the years), but they do not sound anything like they did on Slippery When Wet or Keep The Faith.

could it be evolution... :?:


even if Richie Sambora left the band for their next record and tour, fans would probably be upset, definetely, but let's face it, it's Jon's band and name, and that's why they have had such longevity, success and worldwide appeal...

Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:58 am

Jon Bon Jovi is very important. No doubt. Though him on his own is no match for Bon Jovi as a band. Their numbers support this.

Never said they didn't go through an evolution.

Motley Crue doesn't have the same outlook because they lost Vince who was an integral part to their sound. That is why their first album back together missed a beat....then oops there goes Tommy. Another kick. Gee, this wouldn't have anything to do with their poor sales???

Kiss as well. Look at Psycho Circus. Most successful album that they had in 20+ years chartwise. All because of the original chemistry. Though even that wasn't as real as it should have been.

As for the past. Aerosmith, they dive bombed when they had their losses. Van Halen was a slower decline, but the loss of Hagar was the nail in the coffin. Same goes for AC/DC. A slow decline after Bon died. Sure Back In Black(which was partially concieved by Bon) was great, but it has been downhill every since.

Back to Bon Jovi. I applaud their success, but at the same time, no without Richie I don't think it would be the same, and the fans would lose interest.

Still different producers and writers are only part of the story. If that is how they work, then it is natural evolution. Throwing another person in the band though changes what they started out with.

Clear enough?

p.s. Can you at least admit that Eddie Tapped on Eruption already? I like how you just slinked away from that one.

Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:42 am

genesim wrote:p.s. Can you at least admit that Eddie Tapped on Eruption already? I like how you just slinked away from that one.


First off, I didn't slink away from anything.

Second, I figured why beat a dead horse on this issue :?: It's apparent that I can't teach an old dog a new trick... :D

Third, I'm only gonna say it once so read, learn, soak it in and then get over it...you might thank me later, well, maybe not.

Billy Gibbons was the first one to record and introduce a "Hammer On" on record.

Jimmy Page was second and this is quite evident from listening to LED ZEPPELIN II's HeartBreaker.

Anyhow, TAPPING, got it TAPPING is when you tap a note, or string, 12 frets away from where you are fretting on the guitar, that is called TAPPING :!: you are confusin this technic with 2 handed "Hammer Ons", u dig?

Again, he doesn't NOT DO this on the original record version of ERUPTION, got it :?:

probably not, and I know it'll be hard for you to grasp, but that's all I have to say on this matter.

by the way, if you wanna hear a great example of "TAPPING", check out the solo to DANCE THE NIGHT AWAY, that's a perfect example of Tapping my friend, and I also have a friend who is a guitar teacher that can back up every thing I'm saying here and he's been playing for 35 years... 8)

If you will keep insisting on this matter, I got a task for you, can u please point out exactly where EDWARD TAPS on the original record.

we will both investigate this issue and if you are right, (which your not, but I'll give th benefit of the doubt), I will gladly and openly give you the props you rightly deserve on this board, fair :?:

Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:43 pm

TAPPING is when you "TAP" a note PERIOD.

What you are referring to is a TAPPED Harmonic. But then again that is just a fancy way of touching the string.

Two handed hammer on. LOL Then why does Guitar magazine put "T" as the tabluture when they show it in Eruption?

Here is a quote from a online article and the exact phrase and Wikipedia:


Eruption Tapping
EVH Eruption tapping. I cant remember if I tabbed this out right. If I didn't, then here is my version. This is fairly easy, but still takes a little time to get used to.

T = TAP

Info Bar
Show as flash tabtext tab Key: Style: Metal Focus: Technique Difficulty: Intermediate




http://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=6085
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapping

Tapping
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
This article is about the music technique. For other uses, see Tapping (disambiguation)
Tapping is a playing technique (generally associated with electric guitar playing, though the technique can be performed on any string instrument) executed by using the fingers of the picking hand to tap the strings against the fingerboard, sounding notes. Tapping (also known as a two-hand hammer-on), performed in conjunction with normal fingering by the fret hand, facilitates the construction of note intervals that would otherwise be impossible using the fretting hand alone. Tapping usually incorporates pull-offs as well, where the finger that just tapped the fingerboard to sound a note is then swept off with enough lateral motion to sound that same string again — this time on a lower note than the tap (fretted by another finger before the pull-off, or simply left open).

Perhaps the most famous employment of tapping is the short piece "Eruption" on the first Van Halen album, which features very fast tapping arpeggios and formed the blueprint of heavy metal lead playing throughout the 1980s. While Eddie Van Halen is generally credited with inventing tapping, the practice had existed in some form or another for centuries; Paganini utilized similar techniques on violin. Credit for the first application of this classical technique to popular music may more accurately be given to Steve Hackett of Genesis, who used the technique both live and on recordings in the early 1970's, or Jimmy Page of Led Zeppelin's use of it in the solo for Heartbreaker in 1969.

A related technique is "tapped harmonics", where the fret hand acts as a barre, while the harmonic is tapped. Eddie van Halen does this in the acoustic guitar solo "Spanish Fly".

Stanley Jordan uses a style similar to tapping called "touch guitar", where the pick hand is used to play lead while rhythm is played simultaneously with the fret hand.

The Chapman Stick is an instrument built exclusively for tapping.

An earlier recorded example before Van Halen is on Orchestra Luna's only album Orchestra Luna, on the outro to "Doris Dreams". Randy Roos is the guitar player.



I don't care how long your guitar teacher has been playing, he is WRONG all the same. Though somehow I think you need to go back and ask him to.

Now that I have PROVEN my point. Ace did it on Shock Me on Alive II with the edge of his pick. He "tapped" the fret this way. If you listen closely it takes on a similar sound as Eruption. Uncanny considering that it was released a year before.

Eddie is in denial.

Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:18 am

BUMP

Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:11 am

SILENCE???

Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:11 am

Did you really say this?

I am a real tough guy, I lay odds that I would kick all your asses.


No WONDER you're so afraid of your name getting out!

You've got to be pissing your pants right now.
Last edited by elvissessions on Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:50 am

elvissessions.com wrote:
Mark my words, you're so afraid of being a marked man, you've got to be pissing your pants right now.


You notice he has quit cussing Tom out... he knows when the fire is about to explode in his face, and he better cool his engine.

JEFF d
Elvis fan

Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:35 pm

I quit cussing cause Tom has quit posting crap against me. I was mad that somebody would have the gaul to post my name...especially when I requested him not to in the past.

All because the little baby was mad about a pollitical debate. There is no "fire" that is going to blow up in my face. These threats are so empty. All I asked was for a little bit of being civilized.

Elvis Sessions,

I had stated before that I was KIDDING! You really need to unwind dude, because you take some things on here way too seriously.

Oh and for the record, yeah my name is Mark. Nice to see that you have grown up. :roll: Two people deleted my name at my request, so what do you do, you go ahead and post it anyway. And you call me childish???

All because of a bruised ego. Elvissessions, no matter how many times you try to give the "virtual asswhooping" you are still a zero. Your behavior makes it so.

Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:51 pm

Now, see, that wasn't so tough, was it? Our little boy is growing up.

Still quite churlish, of course, but you're coming along.

At this rate, we'll have you acting almost like an adult in a mere decade or so.

Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:50 pm

genesim wrote:I quit cussing cause Tom has quit posting crap against me. I was mad that somebody would have the gaul to post my name...especially when I requested him not to in the past.


For God's sake, it was just your first name. Columbo couldn't find you with just that. Your delusions of grandeur rival Maurice.

genesim wrote:All because the little baby was mad about a political debate.


Are you absolutely sure you want to start with the name calling again??

Tom

Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:29 am

genesim wrote:
Oh and for the record, yeah my name is Mark.


Nice to meet you Mark, my name is Jeff! :lol:

ps Guess your not so worried about your custody battle now, since you are posting your name on the board. :roll: Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me! lol :lol: :lol: :lol:

JEFF d
Elvis fan

Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:01 am

Tom,

Is that more threatening that you were doing? Are pm's not enough?

Jeff,

Oh gee, how did I know you wouldn't keep the "custody" part out of it.

:lol: :lol:

P.S. Your name is JERRY, short for Dickhead. Because only a person like you would take advantage of that.

Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:03 am

My dad's bigger than your dad.

Sat Oct 15, 2005 3:50 pm

Minkahed this bump is for you.

Sat Oct 15, 2005 5:17 pm

keep bumpin'...

I'm on my way to work and got no time, unlike you, you seem to live on this board! :wink:

gotta go make dat cash bro...

Sat Oct 15, 2005 6:27 pm

If you will keep insisting on this matter, I got a task for you, can u please point out exactly where EDWARD TAPS on the original record.


I did a week ago. I continued to show you. You of course choose to stay blind.

we will both investigate this issue and if you are right, (which your not, but I'll give th benefit of the doubt)


I was right all along and I have many websites, 20+ years of guitar playing experience, guitar magazine...etc. to prove it. Do you think if I was wrong that my detractors wouldn't be quick to point it out? Funny how you are the only one that would challenge this fact about Eddie tapping on Eruption or anywhere else on the first record. Think, Mcfly! How could it be so revolutionary if he didn't!

I will gladly and openly give you the props you rightly deserve on this board, fair


Still waiting on the "props" that I deserved from the first time I mentioned the FACT. Funny how wikipedia backed me 100%. Or is that a conspiracy. :lol: Did you even bother to read??? Why ask if you aren't going to take proof!

Yeah make that weekend cash bro. I already worked my 9-5 job. My weekend is free. Ta Dow! So yeah I got time, I budget. An hour a day at MOST, isn't really that much time. Check in..check out. Big deal.

Be a man and admit you were wrong. I have done it, and I am not afraid of it. Even to Jerry, who is my enemy. I was wrong about Queen touring with Kiss and I admitted fully.

Of course the tapping part should have been a no-brainer on your part. You act as if ignorance is a virtue.

Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:22 am

man, you sure are a whiny little bitch, aren't cha :?:

seriously, I don't have a problem admitting fault, but in this case, I believe we are both right.

First off, let me explain how I came about with my original answer.

I have 2 VHS/DVD videos of Curtis Mitchell, a highly skilled and technically proficient guitar player who can play any of Eddie V's lix to a tee.

In these video's, he instruct's, guides and explains the approach, the theory, etc etc...of how a song is constructed, a chord or solo should be played and the "myths" that are created along the way of these great players thru the years.

In the DVD, Curtis emphasizes that EDDIE does not "Tap" on "Eruption", and goes on how everybody thinks that left handed "Hammer Ons" are always confused with "Tapping", so on and so forth...

This is what I was originally thinking when this discussion came up between us. plain and simple.

Second, I am not as fortunate as you to have weekends "OFF" and have an ordinary "9-5" (pussy hours) job, so my time is extremely limited. I pulled in 72 hours this week, and yes, I made plenty. In this day and age, if you want it, (whatever that may be), you gotta bust your ass no matta what you gotta do.

I'm figuring if I keep this up, I should be set for life by the time I'm 45 and won't have to work another **** day after...

Anyhow, I still had time to search a bit about this discussion and you also posted this point in one of your replies. I have my 2 Van Halen guitar books (with tab) sitting right in front of me, transcribed by Wolf Marshall. he explains exactly what your encylopedia mentioned, as does the definitions at the back of the books for TAPPING=HAMMER ONS :!:

ok, so, what the hell is going on here :?: :roll:

If I am wrong, I am wrong, not a big deal, but everywhere I have looked, after the word "Tapping" comes the words "Hammer Ons".

And puh-leeze, do me a favour, get off your ego trip with your "be a man" rap. in reality, your not 1/2 the man I am, so get over dat sheet :wink:

and another thing before I get sum rest, what's up with the "act of ignorance is a virtue" bullshit :?: you jus jump the gun at everything, doncha :?: I can understand your frustrations tho, your not too popular these days on this board geno, so maybe your quite upset at the moment, (I FORGIVE YOU) but you display such a childish, immature as hell, attitude on this board lately, it jus gets old...

And I bet 3 to 1 that I'm a better guitar playa than YOU :!: :lol:

Sun Oct 16, 2005 7:15 pm

Watch closely minkahed

If you say Eddie Van Halen [Hammered On] Eruption. And you say[Tapping=Hammer On].

Then Eddie f*cking Tapped on his first record. DOH. :lol: :lol:

If it looks like a duck.... :lol: :lol:

Curtis sounds like a nimrod. As talented as he may be when playing, the rest of the world would disagree with him and you. You can be so talented, yet overlook the little things in life.

Saying that Eddie Taps..is not saying that it isn't a Hammer on. Because yes...that is what it is! I never said differently.

So do you now admit that I am right and you are wrong? You said that Eddie didn't tap on his first record...and yet by your own admission he did!!!

As for the "p*ssy" hours. No, sorry, I venture that my work is just a tad bit more important then yours. My research has and will save millions of lives. Gee I wonder what the 72 hour job is going to do? Nothing wrong with Blue collar(this is a guess, but I still doubt you are matching the projects I have worked on), but I myself am not looking for "retirement". I want to work everyday of my life, because that is what living is.

So in short..call me a "whiney bitch" but give me the respect I deserve and admit your error.

As for being a better guitar player. Probably, because I don't have time. Though can you read music? Just curious.

Sun Oct 16, 2005 7:48 pm

I don't even know what the f--- you guys are talking about. Tomayto-Tomahto, to me.

But in an effort to figure out why you two were going back and forth about it so passionately, I did some searches last night.

I did find several articles, including one by a person who claims to teach people guitar techniques, that mentioned that Eddie Van Halen's "hammer-ons" were "incorrectly," "mistakenly," etc. referred to as "tapping."

None of them seemed to make nearly as big a deal out of it as you guys are, so again, I'm left scratching my head.

There are also about a million citations where tapping, hammer-ons and pull-offs are given separately in lists of techniques, which implies they are something different to me. (e.g. "Tapping is a technique where you use both hands to play notes on the fretboard. You tap on the strings to get them to make a sound"; "A hammer on is where you strike the fretboard hard enough to make the string sound out. "

If it's any help to either of you, it appears there's some debate about this elsewhere.

Here are a couple of blog examples:

Example 1

Example 2

In spite of spending about 45 minutes with this last night, I still can't figure out what you're arguing about. But I figured I'd throw this stuff in here in case it meant anything to you two.

Beats the crap out of me which side it supports because you've both confused the bejesus out of me.

For the record, I tried learning to play the guitar for about two weeks when I was 10. After two weeks trying to figure out lesson 1 -- Ghost Riders in the Sky, by the way -- I gave up.

So no claim of expertise or knowledge on my part.

Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:19 pm

elvissessions.com wrote:
But in an effort to figure out why you two were going back and forth about it so passionately, I did some searches last night.

I did find several articles, including one by a person who claims to teach people guitar techniques, that mentioned that Eddie Van Halen's "hammer-ons" were "incorrectly," "mistakenly," etc. referred to as "tapping."


Thank You... :wink: