Off Topic Messages

Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:12 pm

The NRP specifies how the resources of the Federal Government will work in concert with State, local, and tribal governments and the private sector to respond to Incidents of National Significance. "

Have you digested what this means...ONLY AFTER THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT HAS MADE A DECISION.

We are the United STATES.

Meanwhile, was it George Bush that didn't have a mandatory evacuation till a week later? Was it George Bush that let 500 busses flood? Was it George Bush who put the people in the Superdome without food and water? Was it George Bush who didn't make a plea to every surrounding state on day ONE? Was it George Bush who didn't utilize the National Guard that was available to clean up the mess that local police IGNORED


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And we are united. The federal government long ago trumped
the states. The Articles of Conferation are history.

Louisiana's National Guard is in Iraq as part of the USA, not their state.
And both the Mayor and the Governor did reach out to the feds, if
belatedly but not as late as some said. (Again, read the Sept. 19th TIME
article.)

One of the problems is that the President and his people were
literally on vacation and were hard to reach and also did not
think it was as bad as it sounded.

Really, I can't believe you have to defend this.

Bush makes mistakes. All Presidents do. I don't defend the Mayor or the Governor but not all the facts you state jibe with what I'm reading in the
press.

You'll notice I'm putting down all levels. You blindly defend Bush.

Pathetic.

So much for leadership. I thought conservatives didn't like
bureaucracy. That's exactly what you're defending.

Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:45 pm

Are you kidding? What does calling the president have to do with anything? You clearly don't get it. The calls that should have been made were to neighboring states. The governer's job is to call in her own help. The president can't do a thing till the state gives up its power!!! Now you wanna say that the president wasn't home???? The president sent a memo and she refused help! Why would she "call back"??? We go over and over this, and you simply don't seem to get it. The power is with the state not the federal government. Try to read this as proof to this.

From Newsweek:

Bush, the governor later recalled, was reassuring. But the conversation was all a little vague. Blanco did not specifically ask for a massive intervention by the active-duty military. "She wouldn't know the 82nd Airborne from the Harlem Boys' Choir," said an official in the governor's office, who did not wish to be identified talking about his boss's conversations with the president.


The denial and the frustration finally collided aboard Air Force One on Friday. As the president's plane sat on the tarmac at New Orleans airport, a confrontation occurred that was described by one participant as "as blunt as you can get without the Secret Service getting involved."

A debate over "federalizing" the National Guard had been rattling in Washington for the previous three days. Normally, the Guard is under the control of the state governor, but the Feds can take over—if the governor asks them to. Nagin suggested that Lt. Gen. Russel Honore, the Pentagon's on-scene commander, be put in charge. According to Senator Vitter, Bush turned to Governor Blanco and said, "Well, what do you think of that, Governor?" Blanco told Bush, "I'd rather talk to you about that privately." To which Nagin responded, "Well, why don't you do that now?"

The meeting broke up. Bush and Blanco disappeared to talk. More than a week later, there was still no agreement. Blanco didn't want to give up her authority, and Bush didn't press.


Clearly a case of Blanco digging her own grave.

This is for Mayor Nagin:

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Here is from the Baton Rouge radio station hmmmm:

WWL: What do you need right now to get control of this situation?

NAGIN: I need reinforcements, I need troops, man. I need 500 buses, man. We ain't talking about -- you know, one of the briefings we had, they were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people out here.

I'm like, "You got to be kidding me. This is a national disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans."


WHO WAS IN CHARGE OF THE BUSES AND WHAT HAPPENED TO THE EFFORT?
FACT: Available Buses Were Not Used To Evacuate Before The Hurricane: "Some 200 New Orleans school buses sit underwater in a parking lot, unused. That's enough to have evacuated at least 13,000 people. Why weren't those buses sent street by street to pick up people before the storm? A draft emergency plan, prepared by the Federal Emergency Management Agency and obtained by NBC News, calls for "400 buses to ... evacuate victims." Yet those 200 buses were left in Katrina's path." (Lisa Myers, "What Went Wrong In Katrina's Wake?" MSNBC, 9/6/2005)

"New Orleans' own comprehensive emergency plan raises the specter of 'having large numbers of people ...stranded' and promises 'the city ... will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas.'" (Dan Harris, "Who's to Blame for Delayed Response to Katrina?" ABC News, 9/6/2005)

"The city's evacuation plan states: 'The city of New Orleans will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas.' But even though the city has enough school and transit buses to evacuate 12,000 citizens per fleet run, the mayor did not use them. To compound the problem, the buses were not moved to high ground and were flooded. (Bob Williams, Op-Ed, "Blame Amid The Tragedy," The Wall Street Journal, 9/6/05)

FACT: Additional Personnel Was Not Recruited To Move The Disabled: "The plan also states that 'special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves or who require specific lifesaving assistance. Additional personnel will be recruited to assist in evacuation procedures as needed.' This was not done." (Bob Williams, Op-Ed, "Blame Amid The Tragedy," The Wall Street Journal, 9/6/05)

FACT: Lessons From Past Failures Were Not Addressed Or Were Repeated: "A year ago, as Hurricane Ivan approached, New Orleans ordered an evacuation but did not use city or school buses to help people evacuate. As a result many of the poorest citizens were unable to evacuate." (Bob Williams, Op-Ed, "Blame Amid The Tragedy," The Wall Street Journal, 9/6/05)

"Fortunately, the hurricane changed course and did not hit New Orleans, but both Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin acknowledged the need for a better evacuation plan. again, they did not take corrective actions." (Bob Williams, Op-Ed, "Blame Amid The Tragedy," The Wall Street Journal, 9/6/05)

WHOSE IDEA WAS IT TO USE THE SUPERDOME?
FACT: Mayor Nagin Ordered The Superdome To Be Used As Shelter: "Nagin ordered a mandatory evacuation for the city's 485,000 residents and opened the Superdome as a shelter of last resort, bluntly warning those who stayed that they would be at the mercy of Katrina's high winds, 28-foot storm surge and 15 inches of rain that threatened to overwhelm the city's protective levees." (Brett Martel, "New Orleans Flees, Braces, Prays As Monstrous Hurricane Katrina Bears Down," The Associated Press, 8/29/05)

"Instead of evacuating the people, the Mayor ordered the refugees to the superdome and convention center without adequate security and no provisions for food, water and sanitary conditions." (Bob Williams, Op-Ed, "Blame Amid The Tragedy," The Wall Street Journal, 9/6/05)

"Plenty of missteps at the local level contributed to last week's disaster too, from a failure to take basic steps to protect the telecom infrastructure to inadequate food and water at the superdome. New Orleans may be able to stage events such as Mardi Gras and Jazzfest and provide parking, crowd control and adequate toilets for millions of visitors, but its hurricane plan was more rudimentary." (Robert Block, Amy Schatz, Gary Fields and Christopher Cooper, "Power Failure" The Wall Street Journal, 9/6/05)

“Get people to higher ground and have the feds and the state airlift supplies to them - that was the plan, man,' Mayor Ray Nagin said in an interview ..." (Robert Block, Amy Schatz, Gary Fields and Christopher Cooper, "Power Failure" The Wall Street Journal, 9/6/05)

FACT: Lessons From Past Failures Were Not Addressed Or Were Repeated: "In 1998, during a threat by Hurricane George, 14,000 people were sent to the superdome and theft and vandalism were rampant due to inadequate security. Again, these problems were not corrected." (Bob Williams, Op-Ed, "Blame Amid The Tragedy," The Wall Street Journal, 9/6/05)

Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:55 pm

About the National Guard, our problem was not concerning where the forces were deployed..on day one there were more then enough in the USA to handle the disaster.

The problem was coordination on the State level. We need our troops elsewhere. Not only for the war, but for our security in case a real terrorist strike happens. The disaster was cleaned up quickly once the right forces were deployed. Funny how that only happened when GW Bush showed up. Kind of like a dumbass that all of a sudden does his job better when the "boss" shows up.

That is sad.

Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:11 pm

It's sad that you don't see that the federal government wasn't also
to blame. The TIME article (not on-line) makes clear that the Bush
folks were attempting to get her to "sign over" something she had
already asked for earlier, so in effect you had politicians squabbling
over "on who's watch" it happened.

It's funny that I can agree that Nagin and Blanco were not up to snuff, but you cannot find anything wrong with Bush's response.

Take the blinders off.

I'm done arguing with you. You are the FECC's Sean Hannity, Jr.
Last edited by Gregory Nolan Jr. on Wed Sep 21, 2005 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:19 pm

Wait a second...if she had already asked for it, then why hasn't she handed over command NOW!!! That is a blatant LIE.

EHHHHH I gotta call BS on that one.

Your damn right I am gonna put the blame where it belongs rather posting pictures that have nothing to do with the problem.

You see that is the difference with you..you would rather place blame on the president, who clearly doesn't deserve it, because it is a witch hunt.

Then you have the gall to ask me why I don't act that way as well? Sorry, I deal with FACTS, and you keep going around in circles.

You keep saying you understand, yet time and time again you ignore the fact that the governer has the power, NOT the president until there is a millitary take over, which in the Newsweek article I just posted to you, the governer has to approve.

Did you ever bother to read it?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:21 pm

Yes, I read it, and did you read my posts? I guess I"m not done yet.

You float over anything
that doesn't gibe with your BUSH-Is-GOD credo. I at least have come
around to seeing that the Mayor and Governor also were to blame.

And you don't deal soley with "FACTS." What's with all the capitals?

The TIME article makes plain that the federal governement (FEMA and DHS) did not deliver even when asked, and there was a power play /mistrust thing between the gov and the Pres. No one should
take comfort or pride in that nonsense.

Either way, it was a blackeye for America. I'm surprised a fellow
Patriot thinks it went so well. The President does not think it went well and takes personal responsibility for it. FEMA head Brown is gone for a reason.

It was a disgrace and it happened on Bush's watch. Is that fair? No.
But it's reality. The Bucks stops at the White House, end of story, when it comes to U.S. citizens in distress.

Besides, you have yet to express any real outrage over what happened.

All you can do is deflect blame from the President. How nakedly partisan can you get?

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Tue Sep 20, 2005 10:19 pm

In other words...why don't I just think like you. :lol:

President Bush taking blame doesn't prove anything, but him being pollitical.

Yes I read what you wrote, and you "admitting" Blanco and Nagin negligence doesn't undo all you have targeted before.

Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:19 pm

genesim wrote:In other words...why don't I just think like you. :lol:

President Bush taking blame doesn't prove anything, but him being pollitical.

Yes I read what you wrote, and you "admitting" Blanco and Nagin negligence doesn't undo all you have targeted before.


I just think it's a no-brainer that ...

Well, forget it. :wink:
It's clear that you'll never cricitize this President whenever
he may deserve it. Harry Truman he ain't.

And "I'll give you the last word..." :lol: :lol: :lol:
Last edited by Gregory Nolan Jr. on Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:32 pm

Now that you have admitted Nagin and Blanco negligence...why not the crusade against them? Why not post after post showing their absolute ignoring of everything that could have deterred the problems that Katrina caused?

Why not point a finger at the negligence of past administrations who in the "oh so great" economy, had just a little more money to deal with these issues?

I'll tell you why, because it is clear that you will hate on the president whatever the cost. The facts are that there was little the Bush could do anyway, let alone him being "the blame" for the whole thing.

The problem was at the local level and until command was handed over, there is nothing you can do to change this. Blanco refused..end of story.

Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:35 pm

Wrong, again. I'm done already. I've already made clear
I'm no Bush-hater.

You're so predictable. You don't even know when the thread has wound
it's course.

Get a clue.

Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:44 pm

Ok so you wanna quit?

What am I "wrong again" about?

Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:47 pm

I gave you the last word. Use it. I'm done going on and on comparing
facts. My basic point is that blame can be found on every level.
Your astounding refusal to acknowledge federal mistakes means I'm
effectively done arguing here.

Your turn:

Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:56 pm

What were the federal mistakes again? By not taking over state government? By not making FEMA an automatic first responder and nixing all local preparation?

What was it that Bush could have done differently besides showing his face, which really wasn't necessary anyway. Just stupid pollitical media bathing that has nothing to do with helping the people. Visual presence has long been overemphasized, and has nothing to do with how a leader does his job.

I simply don't know what the administration did that was so wrong.

I enjoy my freedom and I don't think it is a great idea to have the president just start taking command away from the states and imposing federal militia. Sorry...can't agree with that.

If you want to blame FEMA..that still isn't the president. He didn't force Brown not to do his job..but again the organization is still a SECONDARY responder.

Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:25 am

genesim wrote:I simply don't know what the administration did that was so wrong.

Shorten this to "I simply don't know ..." and that takes care of all 4000+ of your posts.

Greg, now you understand.

DJC

Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:25 pm

Gee Doc..that sure took alot of "wit". :lol:

Thu Sep 22, 2005 6:04 am

genesim wrote:Gee Doc..that sure took alot of "wit". :lol:


Don't you mean "gee doc, that it took alot of "with" ??? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

JEFF d
Elvis fan

Thu Sep 22, 2005 6:58 am

Why would I repeat a typo?