Off Topic Messages

A national disgrace

Sun Sep 04, 2005 12:50 am

A cogent summary of an administration's latest failure.

DJC

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A national disgrace
-
Saturday, September 3, 2005

THE AGONIZINGLY slow emergency response to the human suffering left by Hurricane Katrina is nothing less than a national disgrace. Despite the knowledge that New Orleans was extraordinarily vulnerable to a major storm, government officials failed miserably in their efforts to aid victims of the disaster, which is one of the worst natural catastrophes in the nation's history.

It took four days after Katrina smashed down on the Gulf Coast for emergency crews to get anything close to adequate supplies to the huddled masses in the flooded city, who were left without food and water. The horrific sight of corpses rotting in the streets or outside emergency shelters and thousands of angry survivors waiting for promised relief only magnified the sluggish pace of the government's response.

Incredibly, outrageously, thousands of people wilted in hunger and desperation outside the city's convention center waiting for relief efforts that took days to arrive -- even as the misery unfolded, hour by hour, on live television.

For anyone wondering if the billions thrown into the Department of Homeland Security had made the country better equipped to handle destruction from a major earthquake or a terrorist attack, the news was beyond discouraging. Promises from the Federal Emergency Management Agency that help was on the way were obscured by the reality that the government couldn't get basic life-saving supplies to those trapped in the city -- let alone National Guard troops to deal with outbreaks of lawlessness.

FEMA appeared so overwhelmed by the scope of the disaster that it has left many public officials wondering whether it can effectively handle any large-scale crisis. That doubt is underscored by the fact that national emergency preparedness experts have long known of the threat to New Orleans and its precarious levee system. Now a major city of 500,000 has been left largely empty and uninhabitable with no realistic timetable of when it can be rebuilt.

President Bush's admission that the government's response to the disaster fell woefully short also gave fuel to critics of his policies, who noted that thousands of National Guard troops from the region who normally would have been available are 7,000 miles away, fighting in Iraq. Certainly the consternation felt by Americans as they watched the crisis develop with dramatic images repeated on television can't be easily dismissed by an administration that likes to spin its failures as unwavering victories.

For this catastrophe is going to be played out for months, possibly years. If disaster planners knew all about the dangers a hurricane could bring to the Gulf region, then how could they be prepared for an unexpected disaster? And what does it say to emergency response officials in other major American cities who prepare for other types of natural disasters -- or even a terrorist attack? Are there sufficient trained soldiers available for a domestic emergency? Can we get supplies to victims in our own country in a quick and responsible time period?

Based on the reaction to Katrina, the answer is a resounding no.

Yes, the logistics were daunting. But this nation was intolerably slow in mobilizing its wealth and ingenuity in getting relief to the battered region.

On Friday, President Bush, while surveying the hurricane damage, dismissed the notion that the war in Iraq has detracted from our ability to meet crises at home. He insisted we have "plenty of resources" to do both.

It also takes will and a sense of urgency to achieve a difficult mission of this magnitude.

No American mayor should ever have to send out a "desperate SOS" to get the federal government's full attention three days after a major hurricane struck. New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin had good reason to feel betrayed and outraged. This nation failed its brethren on the Gulf Coast.

URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f ... DMVO81.DTL
©2005 San Francisco Chronicle

Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:29 am

Don't you think more constructive things could be done than complaining?
Can't change what's happened.
Just an excuse for you to bitch again. It's getting tiresome!!!


:x

Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:56 am

You can't turn the clock back Sam that's for sure.

But people can learn from their mistake of keeping a buffoon on as president and if anyone in the US is unfortunate enough to live somewhere where this may happen again lets hope they've learnt and voted someone with some sense into office.

If only New Orleans had oil fields there........

Sam, only one peron in the US could give the order to send enough trained people to the area.

For a few days he just was not able to give that order.

Because of those days people are still dying now, not as a direct result of the disaster but because a raging buffoon who those people voted into office couldn't be bothered enough to do anything about it quickly enough.

To all Americans, please please please avoid this ever happening again, get that deleted - see guidelines #2 out of Washington and just have him replaced. I don't care for the party, keep them or not, but just get rid of that buffoon.

Sun Sep 04, 2005 4:11 am

Well put Steve ! It does make one wonder that after such a natural disaster which was predicted, how on earth is the USA, which is the most powerful and richest nation on earth, going to be able to cope with an unexpected act of terrorism, say a nuclear device or sarin gas. I think many have been living with a sense of false securiy, and this natural disaster has exposed the many weaknesses in the system. For us non Americans, it is also puts a focus on the magnitude of poverty which exists, especially among many African Americans. Some have, rightly or wrongly, compared many scenes which have appeared on the news to that of Africa.

Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:26 am

jake wrote:I think many have been living with a sense of false securiy, and this natural disaster has exposed the many weaknesses in the system.


This is the one statement that has made the most sense out of all the rhetoric that is being spewed.

We have got to address this problem and quick! No matter who is in office!

Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:18 am

These are the facts

1)"A year ago the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers proposed to study how New Orleans could be protected from a catastrophic hurricane, but the Bush administration ordered that the research not be undertaken"

2)"In early 2001, the Federal Emergency Management Agency issued a report stating that a hurricane striking New Orleans was one of the three most likely disasters in the U.S., including a terrorist attack on New York City. But by 2003 the federal funding for the flood control project essentially dried up as it was drained into the Iraq war. "

3)"In 2004, the Bush administration cut funding requested by the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers for holding back the waters of Lake Pontchartrain by more than 80 percent. Additional cuts at the beginning of this year (for a total reduction in funding of 44.2 percent since 2001) forced the New Orleans district of the Corps to impose a hiring freeze. The Senate had debated adding funds for fixing New Orleans' levees, but it was too late."

All of the above are quotes from Sidney Blumenthal's article "No One Can Say They Didn't See It Coming". This administration left us prone in every way, and their careless attitude made the situation far worse than it had to be. This is beyond partisanship, if this were a Democrat, I would demand his f***ing resignation.

If you can't hold this man responsible for this utter lack of leadership, I don't see how you can hold anyone responsible for anything.

In the interest of this country, Please think of the interest of the well being of our people before the well being of one man's political interest.

We need new leadership.
We need it fast.
2008 cannot come soon enough.

Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:51 am

Oh great, so the other thread wasn't good enough, so you start another. IGNORANCE IN PLENTY!

What do you not understand Doc?? Does it need to be spoon fed to you again???

If Mayor Nagin had to send out an S.O.S. then it was because the Governer was not doing the job. Funny how he did this from Baton Rouge hmmmmmm

If the idiot wanted to complain, how about going after the body that makes a difference!!

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

King of the Jungle,

1. Thats right. Federal money didn't need to be spent till there was a effective need from the government of Louisianna. Meanwhile with 2.1 billion in revenue what was done about safety?? This is a clear cut example of how a local government would rather sink their efforts into school nutrition or gambling boats rather then public safety. In the end had the study been put through it would have done NOTHING. It is physics and cutting and pasting a hundred times over will not change this fact. There was no engineering that would have been approved to stop a hurricane of this size.

2. First of all, this is a bald faced lie. Why in 30 years of non-compliance does Bush get the blame for the shortcomings of funding??? Clinton could have spent the money. I thought the country was doing so much better at this time? Hell at least Bush had a reason..being that the country was attacked and has never really recovered from it!!!! Look at the bias that is simply mind boggling.

3. Again what stopped the state from funding its own....oh wait then it wouldn't be FREE would it. Why allot state funds when they can squeeze the rest of the country for their problems!!! Though I wonder if the same thing was done about other needs from states.

What a bunch of bias bial that gets posted over and over with absolutely no understanding about how a government works.

XXXXXXXXXXXX

Steve_M just revert to my other posts. You can join the growing cast who have no idea about a republican(hint...this is not a refernce to the left or right) government.

Go back to Scatter's post on the New Orleans thread and get educated. The power is from the state not the government.

I can only describe all this like Scatter did in the other post....WILLFUL IGNORANCE.

Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:40 pm

Can"t get over how many cop"s have left there job in New Orleans,never in the world would anyone think this would happen in a country from the west.

If a big disaster happend say,in Maryland?would thing"s have taking so long to get going?.


(as said to me by an american...who is well P*&% )


Just a view.

Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:47 pm

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/04092005/325/n ... blame.html



The tragedy unfolds.

Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:57 pm

Battered and sickened survivors made no attempt to disguise their anger: "We have been abandoned by our own country, " Aaron Broussard, president of Jefferson Parish, just south of New Orleans, told NBC's Meet the Press.


NO their State forgot them. The president answered briskly when called by the governer after an S.O.S. was sent out to the wrong section of government. If the people want to be enraged, they should be...but direct the anger at the right source!

U.S. Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld toured a medical facility at New Orleans' international airport on Sunday. He spoke and shook hands with military and rescue officials but walked right by a dozen refugees lying on stretchers just feet away from him, most of them extremely sick or handicapped.


So our secretary of defense should get "extremely sick" as well? He shouldn't be there in the first place. Pure witch hunting.

There were bodies floating everywhere. Lots of them. Some had bullets in them," said Michael Davis, 18, as he described his escape from a neighbourhood immersed in more than 10 feet (3 metres) of water last week. He ultimately found refuge at a domed arena in Lafayette, Louisiana.


And this wouldn't have anything to do with the ABSENCE of local law and order would it?

The Washington Post reported on Sunday that Bush administration officials were blaming state and local authorities for the disaster response problems. The newspaper said the administration was rebuffed in an effort to take control of police and National Guard units reporting to Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco, a Democrat.


This is exactly what I speak of. This is the first time that I have even heard Bush mention such. Kathleen will be lucky to find a job as a secretary after this is all over. You can guarantee that.

Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:39 pm

Time will tell.

Things weren't things bad when Clinton, a self confessd perv (good on ya Clinty), was in office, and things will be better when this buffoon is no longer president (with a small "p" ).

Bush: "It's not my fault - don't blame me, I'm just in charge of this country"

Sun Sep 04, 2005 9:38 pm

genesim wrote:If Mayor Nagin had to send out an S.O.S. then it was because the Governer was not doing the job. Funny how he did this from Baton Rouge hmmmmmm If the idiot wanted to complain, how about going after the body that makes a difference!!


Geno, I've heard you make such a big deal over and over and over again about the fact that Mayor Nagin's press conference being held in Baton Rouge. I don't know if you noticed it or not, but his city of New Orleans was completely devastated by a Hurricane. At the time of the conference, they had no power, no organization, no law, no help and the damn looters were shooting at the rescue helicopters. I don't blame him one bit for going to Baton Rouge. It was the safest and smartest thing to do. I also find it funny that it took Mayor Nagin calling Bush out to get him to finally act. I applaude his actions and his language as it got everyone's attention, including the president. I found it nauseating that Bush then went to Mississippi for photo ops, like he gives a rat's ass about those people. Rumor has it (from a very reliable source close to the president) that he specifically asked to go to a "black" area for the photo op. How deplorable is that?!

Now you go ahead and defend his actions, but to the rest of us, and sadly, the world, he has, once again, come off looking like a complete and utter moron.

Tom

Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:10 pm

Steve_M,

You missed my point entirely. Many have said how great the economy was at the time Clinton was in office right? Now many have also said how bad we are doing now that Bush is in office.

So my question is, why wasn't the levee problem taken care of while we were so prosperous? The problem has existed for 30 years, yet Clinon made his cuts as well.

Funny how nothing is said for the 40 million+ of federal money pumped into the project. As if that is NOTHING. :evil:

Tom,

You and I both know how there are pollitics involved, and there will be photo opps. I too oppose this and feel that it is a complete waste of time. A leader doesn't need to visit ground zero just to provide the assistance.

That said, Mayor Nagin could have spoke to the camera crews at ground zero and he could have been asking the questions why local police took off like a bunch of cowards at the face of people being raped and murdered at the supposed safe zone. Why is that CNN, Fox, and NBC can get in to the area no problem, but Nagin is a half a state away talking to a radio station???

Funny how furthermore people wanna shut their eyes to the real problem. Nagin wasn't asking why the f*ck the governer wasn't taking action, he was cussing out the president! Tell me what the hell does that do? How about tackling the real problem.....why isn't the governer making the pleas to neighboring states to get more National Guard troops and other necessities because obviously the she is sitting on her ass!

I'll tell you why, because it is alot easier to attack the president. Many would place blame on him no matter what the job is. Many like you would rather the president burn as opposed to getting behind him when there is a serious disaster at hand. No matter what he has done, and how many lives he has saved, he will never be commended. A witch hunt plain and simple.

A moron is one who attacks the president whenever it is not his duty to act. A moron is one who ignores the heart of the problem which is at the state level and actually goes so far as to side with idiocy. All mayor Nagin did was elevate the hysteria that was already happening. He did nothing to calm his people. Geez..he could have at least cussed out the president on the phone as opposed to broadcasting it all across the nation? How the F*ck does it help the people that are hurting?

Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:06 am

genesim wrote:Steve_M,

You missed my point entirely.


Yep, I know that to be true. Never saw it, never recognised it and still don't know what it was - do you put your point across this well all the time ?

Never mind your point - just remember to learn by the mistake and make sure you never vote for such a buffoon again.

Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:37 am

Steve M,

Real intelligent. I won't waste my time further. And to think I actually had respect for you at one time...don't know how that happened. :roll:

Tom,

I apologize for my statement about someone being a moron. I think your stance is copletely wrong, but compared to the childish act of the just mentioned person, I at least can have the decency of not putting you in their class.

There are many on here who would rather call names then debate, and for me to even hint at it is not any different. I just wish many would take the time to put down their blame fingers. There isn't a day that goes by where someone is putting down our president. Even while Clinton was president, I never did this. It is funny to me how much the board has changed through the years.

Hell even the debate isn't intelligent anymore. I take the time to look at every point and adress each issue. Compare that to the responses I get. It is clear that people aren't blind...they just don't want to see. It is a sad thing when people will try to believe something where deep down in their hearts they know it is wrong.

Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:06 am

Steve_M wrote:If only New Orleans had oil fields there........


This shows great ignorance and bias in numerous ways. Aside from Houston, New Orleans is the most important U.S. city for oil and gas distribution and refinement. I understand after watching liberal BBCs every day why you would think Bush only cares about oil, but that is just not the case.

I just wish all you know it alls, and I am not directing this solely at you Steve, at all, I just wish you all would shut the hell up and let us deal with this. Finger pointing can (and will) occur later, we have a city and region to rebuild now.

Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:02 am

Scotch, I didn't know an oil feild was the same as a distribution point for the product.

I am ignorant.

I admit that, I always have done.

I do not know everything in the world there is to know, therefore I must be ignorant of the things I do not know.

Are you telling me that some people are not ignorant ? Wow, there are people that know everything there is to know ? Amazing.

One thing I do know from what Genesim has said is that president (small "p") Buffoon took the option of chuckling away to himself saying that because the governor wasn't able to communicate that he as president didn't have to do anything coz of the way the constitution was written.

Finger pointing ? Geez......you got me all wrong. I'm trying to help by showing ya'll the probelm that needs removing in order that should something like this happen again the death toll can be limitted to that caused by the disaster itself and not addded to by a buffoon of a president.

Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:07 am

genesim wrote:Steve M,

Real intelligent. I won't waste my time further. And to think I actually had respect for you at one time...don't know how that happened. :roll:


Glad to see that you admit finally that your judgement is impaired.

Now apply this to that buffoon of a president and maybe you could make a total recovery.

Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:09 am

Steve_M wrote:Scotch, I didn't know an oil feild was the same as a distribution point for the product...
Point being, New Orleans IS important to the oil industry. Isn't that what you were getting at? If New Orleans had oil, Bush would care?
Where in the U.S. is enough oil produced for Bush to care??? Ah, that is why this country is rotting away, because Bush only cares about oil-producing countries...

Steve_M wrote:...Are you telling me that some people are not ignorant ? Wow, there are people that know everything there is to know ? Amazing.
Aside from the all-knowing DJC, we are all ignorant.

Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:47 pm

genesim wrote:If the idiot wanted to complain ...


genesim wrote:A moron is ...


One might suggest the next time you seek to define "idiot" or "moron," do it while facing a mirror.

DJC

Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:42 pm

Steve_M a response to you is a lesson in futility....as you have admitted yourself. If that is all you got from my posts, how could I begin to explain further?

Doc talk about looking in the mirror. You are a low person, and always have been. Your insults on this board, to perhaps everyone, is without a doubt a reflection of how you feel about yourself. When one wants to judge your actions they need to look no further then the many posts that have been devoted to your crude behavior.

In the end, all I can do is feel sorry for you.

Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:40 pm

Steve...CLEVER very CLEVER. You are true to form.

Next topic...symantics...what does that word really mean! :roll:

Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:27 pm

If you haven't noticed I am a masochist or I wouldn't continue to communicate with winners like the Doc. :lol:

I said responding you was a lesson in futility. Didn't mean I wouldn't take it.

I gave you a thought out answer, and you chose to act like a condescending fool.

The funny part is that you have done this to many on the board and they have responded in kind.

It isn't my resposibility to make the weak minded understand. Futhermore when one willingly goes that direction it is even more useless. Getting you to understand what I just wrote...even more useless, but as I said, I enjoy a little pain. :lol:

You have clearly decided to sidestep reason with smart ass banter.

P.S. Notice I answered you question, as I have done continually. That is the difference between you and me. You cannot adress issues....I can, even when I deem them futile as anyone would when it comes to your semantics.

This isn't an OPINION, you have asked me twice about the word "futile". That fits said definition.

Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:18 pm

You did not give me an answer that had anything to do with my question.

It is your responsibility to give points out in a way people understand - not to the people concerned but to yourself.
It is ytour wish that you want to communicate with people it is your wish that they see your point of view, so you have a responsibility to yourself to see that the message you send out is one which is understandable to the people you are sending it to.

The funny part is that you have done this to many on the board and they have responded in kind.


Define many.

Quote instances with others as this is news to me.

Note I have not lowered myself to your usual name calling, "acting like a condescending fool" whiich you write as a fact and fail to express it accurately as the opinion I am sure it must be.

If it is a fact then facts are verifiable with hard evidence and not opinion. Be my guest, the floor is yours.

First of all you say I'm clever when I never set out to be then you accuse me of acting like a condescending fool. Since when is that clever ?

Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:30 pm

You asked me why I kept posting....I answered.

You asked me if I needed lessons that bad...I answered

You ask me why I thought it was semantacs..I answered.

You asked me if I put my point across this well all the time..I answered

The "many" that I said, are impossible to trace because the history is gone. Though "many" does mean more then two, and that has been reached. Sorry, but I don't have the time or the will to prove this.

Quote instances with others as this is news to me.


Why does this not surprise me. Must be fun living in the land of the oblivious.

As far as me saying "clever" I was using sarcasm. Did you really need that clerified, or is this the condescending behavior coming out again? Or is this your symantic skill again? You don't need to answer those two questions, but you really should look up "symantac" cause you seem to have a logic block.

Now I asked:

Many have said how great the economy was at the time Clinton was in office right?

why wasn't the levee problem taken care of while we were so prosperous?

Either of those questions could have been aswered. Instead you chose to ignore them. Try answering them this time.

Funny how you accuse of me avoiding questions.

p.s. Thats "funny" as in weird....Mr. Symantic.