Off Topic Messages

Wed Sep 07, 2005 12:22 am

My whole post was largely a plea for some civility among fellow fans
of Elvis when discussing politics, even if I myself ended up trashing
the ever-present Genesim.

I like your spunk and agree with you sometimes, so I hate to
see you join in the "Defend Bush at all Costs" brigade.

That's all, bud. :wink:

And yes, we could use a ref around here. A few people deserve
some time in a penalty box. Maybe me too. But cheap
shots have to be called on. That goes for anytime I go beserk too.

By the way, did I read you right or did you claim that Presley's
"Night Rider" was some kind of paen to the Klan?

Say it ain't so. :oops: :lol:

Wed Sep 07, 2005 12:26 am

Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote: I like your spunk and agree with you sometimes, so I hate to
see you join in the "Defend Bush at all Costs" brigade.



I do not defend Bush at all costs.

A city built below sea level getting flooded is not his fault.

anyone (except DJC) is smart enough to realize that.

Wed Sep 07, 2005 12:30 am

Well, it's not that simple now, is it? There would be not
a huge uproar nationwide if there wasn't something to the
story. Let's not argue this forever. I know your view (and
Genesim's )backwards and forwards and vice versa.

And your obsession with Doc (and I assume you don't him
from Adam) is getting almost creepy.

Why all the interest in his sex life? It's nothing but cheap shots.

You're a smart guy and I've agreed with before. Why
be take the low-road? He's done it too and I've called him on
it. Why not try to make FECC better? :D

Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:57 am

Hey Greg..one way to make FECC better is to stop thinking that you can scold me (or GG or Scatter :roll: ). Look at your childish post you just delivered.

You have made many assumptions here, to many too adress. The facts are that you don't know anything about me, or what I had to go through growing up.

I do know one thing, I didn't make it by getting handouts. I worked multiple jobs while going to night school and summer school. Saved for my education...did it with one parent from the age of 3, and still had time to come home and take up my resposibilities. That is after spending my childhood most of my days in day care because my parent was doing the same thing I did later.

I am a minority and I recieved virtually no money from my other half and lived in poverty.

So yes, I do believe in working for a living and I am not one of those "snotty rich kids". I went to public school all my life as well.

If I own GM stock it is my right as a citizen to do so. What the hell is wrong with that?

If you want fortune in the U.S.A. then you have to work for it. If you wanna throw the race card in..I don't buy it, because my race(while not really pertinent) was even less accepted then African Americans.

I love the Greg/Meatheads(All in the Family) of the world who THINK they know how the poor feel, but yet with every word, they are doing everything to drag them down..and keep them down.

Thank god there are people like me who don't give a sh*t what kind of cards I started with. What matters is that I did the best with what I was dealt and have passed up many that were far more fortunate then me.

Why did Colin's cartton offend me....because everytime there is some kind of problem everything is done to remind the world of what came before. It can't be simply mishandling....oh no, it has to be because of RACE! The worst part is that our children who know nothing of this racism see this and think it is alright to throw these slanders around. The facts that Colin posted it, adds to the problem. The fact that Doc will come on and label more people is even more of a setback.

There are many groups that have suffered just as much, if not more, then African Americans. The Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Mexicans, Latinos...on and on. How many of these groups have been murdered and used for slaves? How many times have we seen cartoons that depict them in less then human form? Jessie Jackson says that no one can understand black pain except for a black person..BULL SH*T!

Let me ask you this Greg. Have you ever been in line at a store and someone asking...."how did that happen"...or "what country do you come from anyway"?

Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:01 am

G G -

You wrote:
A city built below sea level getting flooded is not his fault.


No, but the lower spending on flood prevention, and the [lack of] initial response to it was.

Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:55 am

TROPICAL STORM OPHELIA is coming thru the Gulf as you read this.

Katrina's devastation will be old news by late next week.

keyword: old "news"

- Sad but true.


OPHELIA:
Start a whole new blame game in advance now!

Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:41 am

Graceland Gardener wrote:TROPICAL STORM OPHELIA is coming thru the Gulf as you read this.


Unfortunately, this is true. I just saw the update on it a few minutes ago. By Tuesday of next week, it will be upon us again. There is a strong possibility that it will head straight for New Orleans as another major hurricane when it hits.

Have any lessons been learned from Katrina? Will any preparations be taken in advance? What preparations can be made to an already destroyed city?

The way it looks at this very moment is....here we go again.

Any bets on who will get the blame for this one?

Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:03 am

Colin,

No, but the lower spending on flood prevention, and the [lack of] initial response to it was.


Thats right...so why did Clinton underfund while we were so prosperous during his administration??? Why did the governer not make the phone calls till days after??? These are very rousing questions.


...regarding your little cartoon. Lets take a look at an aspect of the drawing.

Would there be any stereotype drawing here.....

Image

Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:01 am

genesim wrote:Colin,


...regarding your little cartoon. Lets take a look at an aspect of the drawing.

Would there be any stereotype drawing here.....

Image


No.

It's a recognisable caricature of Ms Rice.

The stereotypes are in the boat.

Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:44 pm

Again, I stand by my comments. If anyone wants to find something
childish in them, well, good luck. I'm a child of the working class and
so I'm instinctively (against)all forms of bias and consider myself having
come up through the same school of hard knocks, Genesim, having
worked in factories, warehouses, etc. as well as a cabdriver and a
bus and truck driver - and all that goes along with it.

Anyone who pulled that crap against you will be accounted for. I'm hoping
that most of us have spoken out against racial and ethnic bigots in our lifetimes. I actually think America has gotten pretty far in this regard.
Policywise, as the devastation that is New Orleans shows, we have some ways to go.

Yet I also oppose most affirmative action programs today for institutionalizing discrimination, as they tend to discriminate against those of European background at the same time ignoring one's class background, despite some surface remedial effects for some groups.
They also tend to divide us, not unite us as Americans.

And for the record, I love "All In the Family," even if Norman Lear
made the lovable Archie Bunker into a bit of buffoon even when he made
sense. The national success of the GOP since the '70s cannot merely be a reflection of the bigotry so much ridiculed on that sit-com, but an
example of how the excesses of the liberal left have backfired politically.

I don't mean to be so harsh to my fellow FECCers but this has not been a good week for America. I'm in mourning for one of our great cities and
more so its citizens of all stripes, so forgive me for excessive emotion. I'll do the same for you all. :wink: I've made my donation and will do more
in the future and hope we all will as well.

And I never got to visit the city. How many of you have, out of curiousity?
I've dug out a lot of my classic New Orleans R&B, blues, jazz - and will
watch Elvis' King Creole" soon. It is somewhat unseemly to hear this
great music now. Only the blues stuff even makes sense given the all
the death and sadness. (I'll start a separate thread on that, maybe, as I'm sure Genesim and I would like to see this thread die
off, and I'll give him the last word. :D )

Peace,
Greg Nolan

:D

Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:24 pm

No.

It's a recognisable caricature of Ms Rice.

The stereotypes are in the boat.


Image

Right Colin, glad you clarified. :roll: Maybe you should take a closer look, but then again, the rose tint might just change the view and you will never see. Oh but I forget...that was your "intention" anyway. :roll: :roll: Though there doesn't seem to be the "gold tooth" and "jerry curls", so perhaps maybe you are right. :roll: :roll:

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Greg are you a minority? When you say that you have went through the SAME school of hard knocks, I am just curious about this fact. I am also curious if you had one parent leave at the age of 3. Just trying to clarify.

Interesting facts about the flood that I heard on the news as well as many that I already knew.

1. During Bush's so called vacation on the Friday before the hurricanes, he sent Governer Blanco a memorandum asking if the federal government can take over the evacuation as well as command of the national guard. The governer responded NO because she feared military milita intervention.

2. The mayor just today ordered a MANDATORY evacuation. Yet on the day of the worst hurricane he just suggested a regular evacuation with no millitary ramnifications. Many interviewed after the hurricane said that they weren't convinced of the severity and that is why they didn't evacuate.

3. When the Hurricane hit initially with it taking a turn toward Buloxi the overall consensus(I can confirm since I watched it live myself) was that of relief. That they felt that the worst had past. While the rich were in their SUV's( :wink: Greg), why didn't the Mayor take any of the School busses, that were meant SPECIFICALLY for this kind of disaster, to gather the poor before it was too late?

4. INSTEAD of #3 the mayor told the poor to gather in the superdome where there was no preparation..i.e. food and water to house any of those people. Also knowing the geographic location it was well known that this wouldn't be a safe area if the levees indeed broke(which of course was well known to be underfunded right??). The National Guard that did respond were ordered by the mayor to make sure that no one left the dome because of unsafe rising in water. Yet there were no provisions and the safety of those inside were virtually ignored. Meanwhile the Hilton(and no doubt other places) was evacuated nearby in full view of the people that were out on the landings on the upperdecks. The situation did indeed escalate after this fact.

5. There were no plans to build a category 4 levee system that would withstand hurricane Katrina. This is true if given every penny that was asked for. Also there was no time given the massive construction plan, it would not have been completed in time. Though funding for the project could have been put into effect during the Clinton administration while the country was prosperous.

6. Governer Blanco made several late calls in regards to needing National Guard troops. Many neighboring states were told that they weren't given a call at all and had to do so themselves. Why was there so many delays? Why did it take days for the Governer to even make a plea when it came to the safety of her state that she has spent so much money trying to attract tourists? 2.1 billion in tourist revenue alone produced no evacuation plan and no protection against any kind of disaster let alone of this magnitude. It is clear to me her priorities were nutrition for the kids in school lunch programs over the life or death situations of a city below sea level.

7. FEMA is a second responder. They are designed to react in tandem with the state, not in place of. Either organizations on a federal and local level cannot do thier job while in a "anarchy" situation.

8. What happened to the local government? Why did every cop go home when it was obvious that their city needed them? Why now are they being shuttled to Las Vegas for a "vacation" from all of this?

9. When the Mayor got on the radio in Baton Rouge why didn't he use the media that was ever present in the city? Many would have been happy to interview him and while in the city they have to answer to him when it comes to a national tragedy. He can send his orders via camera. Why wasn't the plea directed at the governer who was in control rather then cussing the president? Why did the mayor ever leave his city that was in dire need of him? If a visual presence was so important, then why were't the governer and mayor with their people inside the citiy walls.

Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:41 pm

I don't know why we have to be so personal all of sudden,
but I'm of European extraction,for the record,
as well as a faint strain of American Indian, like many Americans.

And you? Since you keep bringing it up, we'd love to know. :roll:

Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:53 pm

"MA BUSH IN EVACUEES ROW

Barbara Bush had come under fire for saying some of the Hurricane Katrina evacuees are better off now than before the storm.


Her remarks came as President George Bush - her son - faced growing criticism over his response to the crisis.

Mrs Bush made her comments after touring the Astrodome complex in Houston, where thousands of survivors are being cared for.

She told a radio interviewer that many "were undeprivileged anyway" and were in no hurry to leave.

"What I'm hearing, which is sort of scary, is they all want to stay in," Mrs Bush said.

"Everyone is so overwhelmed by the hospitality.

"And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this is working very well for them."

Mrs Bush and former president George Bush were visiting the astrodome to help boost morale and raise money for the rebuilding effort.

White House officials have declined to comment on her remarks."

It just gets worse. Like MOTHER, like Son!

Gregs, thought provoking posts are a breath of fresh air. Not that I agree with his support of the Iraq war or American border views, but I bet I could change them after a couple of days in relaxed conversation:-)

genisem, Tunnel vision is so tiresome.

Wed Sep 07, 2005 7:15 pm

Greg,

I asked if you were a minority, not your exact affiliation. But thanks for clarifying your caucasion status. My possible yellow/black persuasion, you would then have to admit that my status in the country is a little bit more compromised then yours.

I noticed you skipped the parents. Should I assume you to had both of yours? If so were you abandoned at a young age? Did you still have a parent that was young still studying and spending most of your life without a parent?

As far as making it personal...you have done so by insinuating me or anyone else is "rich" or a "snotty" or owning "GM stock".

You have further assumed that your situation was the "same" as me. I am betting that as the situation unfolds this is not even close to the case.

This is something that I don't really feel matters, because like I said, F*ck it, I don't need the advantages. Yet, it was you who decided to get personal first and lets see if your status holds out.

I'll give you a great example. You spoke of All In The Family. They got robbed...the one with Lamont from Sanford and son and the Sherriff from Blazing Saddles.

Meathead jumps up and tells the two thieves after hearing Archie's usual prejudice that "what Archie doesn't understand is the paint that your social status was brought upon by the way you were brought up..and yada yada yada"

Cleavon Little responds "And you would huh?"

Meathead slouches down while his obvious status shows that he has NO RIGHT to speak for anyone in that situation.

Maurice,

Gregs, thought provoking posts are a breath of fresh air. Not that I agree with his support of the Iraq war or American border views, but I bet I could change them after a couple of days in relaxed conversation:-))


I don't doubt this a bit. The "air" part is correct. His views blow with the wind.


genisem, Tunnel vision is so tiresome.


And your ignorance of America is equally tiresome. I admit my "vision" is dead set on the laws by which we are goverened. Not the funny feeling in one's toe.

Wed Sep 07, 2005 7:21 pm

I don't pretend or state I have a chip on my shoulder. I never
said I wouldn't discuss one's background. I also wonder
if anyone would seriously think you are a minority outside
of a suburban lilly-white Michigan 30 years ago (or wherever it is you write us), but again, "I'll take your word for it." You're "down
with peeps," good for you.

And we could all swap stories of our personal plights, but what
is the point? I personally think working class people have more in
common than not. Over-emphasis on ethnicity and race only
serves the corporations.

I also think "ALL IN THE FAMILY" did a good job of sending up
liberal do-goodism run amuck.

You have to admit you are the rare bird who is discriminated
against (I'll take your word for it) and then turns around
and says "what a great system we have." You and maybe
Condi Rice. :lol:

I say we're getting there, but to do cheerleading somersaults
over how good the USA is doing by its poor, elderly and sick
is again demonstrate your delusion.

Wed Sep 07, 2005 7:28 pm

We are all in a minority.

Look at me, male, white, married, non-smoking (now), hetrosexual and healthy. what am i in ? 14% of the population ? and I don't even have a monthly magazine!

Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:19 pm

Greg you can believe me or not, but I can tell you that many on this board can speak for me that know my identity.

I would be thankful for them to keep my personal information in private, as I would with them, but rest assured I am not lying.

As it stands you are WRONG, and to insinuate that I am being false about it is very low indeed. Especially considering the fact that I am one of the veterans of the board who has made plenty of contact and I have a great rapport with the ones I have done business with....cept for Jeff D. :D

It is obvious that you are the "lily white" kind of guy that you speak of.

As far as color not mattering. Buddy I live in the real world, and not fantasy land. You cannot know what that is because you are on the other side of the fence. We all have personal plights, but isn't it funny how some of us have just a little more advantage.

You don't have the "chip" on your shouldier because you weren't born with the DISADVANTAGE that me and minorities had. You can get out of some circumstances, but you can never really escape the color of your skin. In America I will have to live with the bigots like the prejudice...or the people like you who THINK they are speaking for me for the rest of my life.

The funny part is that you will further judge me because I side with a pollitical affiliation that stands for the minorities as opposed to a side that stands for "programs" that are designed to do nothing but keep the "peeps" down.

I wanna be treated equal...not be given a job because of the color of my skin or lack thereof. Either way it doesn't help in the long wrong.

Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:08 pm

Err, I thought I told you I'm against most affirmative action programs
in 2005.I just thought it was ironic that you side with conservatives that by
and large are hostile to most modern claims of discrimation , save
for a few token examples like Justice Clarence Thomas and Secretary Rice.

That was the point of the cartoon Colin posted, no matter how artless
it came off to an American weaned in the PC age.
(No American cartoonist in today's PC world would ever dare even bark up that tree... ) It looked like it was European origin and so seems
slightly out of sync. The intent was to satirize what many call his cynical scorecard on race. (I'm not sure if I agree but finding an African-American
Republican still is relatively rare.) In a truly bias-free world, we may yet see the return of no-holds barred racial and ethnic humor.
Many of your fellow conservatives would find your emotional reaction
to its posting to be evidence of a "P.C. mentality," whether fair or not.

That said, the President has done more than most to diversify his administration and deserves some credit for that.
To deny that such persons are minorities (of race,
if not class) is to be blind, to the discredit of many liberals.

I still say class (money) trumps race any day, but I concede that
they are entangled in the USA and used to divide folks who have more
in common in terms of class.
I'm technically multi-ethnic, for the record,as already mentioned. :lol: There's not too much lill in my whiteness. And defining who is "white" itself
has a troubled legacy in a land of Irish (once considered "black"),
Italians, Jews, etc., let alone what used to be called Orientals.
Most "white" people (be they in England, Ireland, Norway,Australia
or the USA) are themselves tribal mutts of a sort. That said, racial
prejudice lives on although we have made progress. I assume you
agree on that much.

And as already mentioned, I have chips enough on my shoulder
and personal background, none of which need airing here.
I just don't subject the board to my constant tirades. :roll:

Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:48 am

There wasn't anything humorous at all about Colin's post, and it is sad that such things are still going on today.


Many of your fellow conservatives would find your emotional reaction
to its posting to be evidence of a "P.C. mentality," whether fair or not.


Right...more of what us people of color should be thinking.

I'll let you off the hook though, because despite our differences, I do think you are a nice person. I certaintly enjoy our debates.

But as far as the personal part....I don't care if you were molested...beat....made to wear ladies dress...sh*t on...etc. Other then a horribly disfiguring accident, you will alas still be "white". There is no comparison between this undeniable fact.

Hell even if fat, there is a chance you can at least lose the weight. For us minorities unless we go through a chemical peal, there will always be that stigma.

You as a "white" person will never be judged in the same way because of it.

Thu Sep 08, 2005 6:14 am

Jon Stewart great comment tonight: "Generally when people don't want to play the blame game- THEY'RE TO BLAME!"

Thu Sep 08, 2005 7:40 am

Well with a Clinton..you do seem to have a point.

Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:12 am

genisem to me, "And your ignorance of America is equally tiresome. I admit my "vision" is dead set on the laws by which we are goverened. Not the funny feeling in one's toe."

You have not got a clue about my knowledge of America. I have been inundated with info about America all my 63 years. Mainly by intelligent Americans. Historians, real scholars, in-depth research. A few discerning readers here have helped to broaden the picture.

An inquiring mind can be a curse, all it's dreams can be shattered.

It's a jungle out there:-) Try thinking a little deeper.

Meanwhile the world looks on as the news and facts from New Orleans helps us to understand the catastrophe, now estimated to cost maybe 150 Billion dollars, or even more?

Yes Bush WILL be remembered!

Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:44 pm

Gosh, Gen,

Maybe there should be more disclosure on this site (just in the off-subject section - if any of you tell that I’m a teacher in the regular Elvis part, I’ll have to have Steve come through your keyboard and kill you. Steve can do anything with a computer, you know!). Anyway, back to my point: Maybe everyone won’t get it, but someone will. A bit back you intimated that children should be able to have their childhood - a time of innocence with no problems. You never had that did you? You had to deal with the realities of the world from age three, or even earlier, because if a parent left you when you were 3, he/she wouldn’t have been much of a parent before he/she left.

I am a member of a minority, not Hispanic or Black (Hmmm, doesn’t leave much left does it?) Anyway, the fact is that maybe you are a bit too conscious of your ethnicity. Once, when I was at a workshop, and told a person next to me that I was trying to transfer to the school where I am now, she looked directly at me and said, “You’ll never get the transfer. They’re only taking minorities.” The point is that minorities may be conscious of their status, but not everyone sees them.

BTW, I just had a very strange thought: You’re not my cousin, Eugene are you? He’s a very well known chemist. No, you couldn’t be because his dad didn’t die until he was in college. But he could be as bitter as you sometimes seem to be because his second brother died when he was in his twenties. He was on an operating table: he drank too much and had a liver condition. His youngest brother acquired HIV through a dirty needle. His two brothers did use drugs. Eugene was supposed to be the “good” one. However, because of his many life experiences, he ended up divorced, and then had a motorcycle crash that disabled him for a long time. This is off the subject.

You asked Greg if one of his parents left him when he was 3. My dad got ALS (Lou Gehrig’s disease when I was four, but didn’t die until I was 11. We were, of course, disparately poor. My dad kind of left us then. He was in the hospital the last two years of his life, with my mom by his side, so my brother and I were housed with my aunt and uncle. Yes, I really had to do a lot to get through school and college, but we (you and I) both made it.

The other day, I told you that I met a student who was 28 for whom I had great affection. When I got him he had no parents. They both died when he was 6, in the first grade. I still love him a lot, even though he was a handful when I had him in the third grade. Whenever I see any of my kids, they always know they’re getting a hug. Maybe you should go to the town you were in when you were in the third grade and look up your third grade teacher. I think you do need a hug from her.

I know that I’ll never agree with you politically, but I do understand you. And, I think that’s more important. I do believe you are a very good person and those that know you do respect you. However, you do get kind of prickly when people disagree with you. I guess I went the other way, as did my brother. We tried extra hard to please, which may be just as bad as disagreeing with all. A lot of the time, I tell people things that I don’t really feel, because that’s what they want to hear. It is much more honest to say what you mean and mean what you say. Well, there are my two cents. I know it won’t change things, but know that you have someone who is on your side (besides Sam, Scatter, GG, et al)... even though I do not agree with you many times.

By the way, I noticed that you really know your movies. This is an escape of someone who didn’t have it so rosy as the movies make out. I know that from first hand, although I do not know movies as well as you.

Also BTW, I learned the XOXOXOX bit when I started teaching. My kids always write me notes which I answer and they always put on the XXXOOOXXX bit. I never used the Xs and Os until I got them from my kids. Also, note that this is NOT in bold. I do love using bold, though.

XXXXOOOOOXXXX (Don’t worry, I’m much older than you, and am married. I do tend to “sweetie pie” people a lot when I’m in teacher mode. Don’t let it distress you.)
sue

Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:58 pm

re: this drawing -

Image


I don't think it's racist.

Condeleeza Rice is a goofy looking woman
hence a goofy caricature

simple as that.


Whaaaat? I miss a memo?

You cannot draw a black politician as a caricature,
but drawing white politicians are still ok?

All artists be on alert!


It's racial inequality to demand that one race be off-limits exempt from criticism, mockery, lampooning, and caricaturizing.

true equality means you can critique everyone no matter skin color.


Conde Rice is ugly imo.
has a bobble head and teeth like piano keys.

Yet, Vanessa Williams is beautiful imo. Deliciously beautiful.

wrap your brains around that.

I have the right, like you (whoever reading this) have right to one's own opinion and discerning attractiveness.

that artist has the right to draw her the way he drew her.


what's next in this liberal sensitivity era,
a law that prohibits you from saying/writing/thinking that any black person is unattractive --- or drawing them that way --- lest it be labeled racism!



stupid crap.

Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:50 pm

I don't agree at all. The nature of the cartoon is racist and the caricature obviously has the same slant.

What makes here "goofy" looking? The fact that she doesn't fall into said parameters of what a person should be? Vannessa Williams has the white and plastic to straighten out those "ugly" features.

Though I would never think that the artists rights should be taking away, but I still have my right to complain about the obvious racist slant. If the context wasn't so obvious, then I wouldn't judge a gross interpretation of a beautiful women IMO.

Or do you think that drawing black face is all good???? What did George Bush do to warrant this crap that does nothing but remind the U.S.A.(and other countries) of an embarrasing time? Morever, it singles out people of African decent and in turn would hurt them the most.

When I watched her speaking to the cameras, I felt that she wasn't put up to anything, but rather speaking her mind. This was not a racist issue.

As far as the drawing, yes it was offensive in a hundred different ways. But my point was how assshole attitudes like that were hurting the group they were supposedly protecting. The big lips drawing of her was further evidence of the not too distant prejudice of the author.

I don't agree at all that the drawing looks like her nor do I agree in the intent behind it. The cartoon has no place in todays society, and I would react in the same way with somebody making fun of a woman that way as well.

Oh and GG, you and I both know that I far from a f*cking liberal. I don't believe in making someone give a job just because they are a minority, and I do not believe in making someone give special treatment either. But I will excercise my right to complain about it anywhere I choose.

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