Off Topic Messages

Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:57 pm

No problem Torbin, and I would be sure to take you up on that, who knows, maybe I can return the favor. Let me know. :D

Norway isn't on the top of my list, but you along with my detractors have been selling it so I just may have to give it a try. No reason a whole country should pay for the absence of me because of a heated debate. :P

Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:00 am


you wrote:No problem Torbin, [...]

Forget it! Not that way.

Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:01 am

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

No Torbin...not THAT WAY at all!

Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:11 am


I begin to understand why you get so many pissed replies on various posts here at the messageboard...

And for the record: I'm not pissed. I'm just shaking my head at this very moment... :?

I seriously think that you would benefit from at least considering sometimes that other people on this MB might have a few brain cells on their own, making them thinking human beings with sometimes different opinions than yours.

I've read quite a few of your posts since we both became members of this board, and it strikes me with surprise that during these few years you've managed to "piss off" quite a few... :wink:

Don't get me completely wrong!
I think you're one heck of a debator, but like most politicians, you seem to have tunnel vision - you're always right, the rest of us (at least the one's with different opinions) are always plain wrong.

Nuff said about that, let's get back to the actual debate, in which I will now write my final thoughts on:

I can't understand how you can sit on your high horse and say that USA is superior to all other countries in the world, slamming other countries (like Norway) and dismissing the possibility that other people on this planet might have a good way of life too!!!???

If I hadn't even been to Europe, and based my opinion on reports on the Internet, hearsay and experiences from friends, I sure as heck would have kept a lower profile!!!
But that's just me... :lol:

Now, since we Norwegians are well known for our ability to perform as piece makers, I'd like to say the following:

I'm raised on the American culture and heritage, have visited several parts of your beautiful country USA, and seen with my own eyes what it's like to both visit and live there.

I like USA, but I love Norway - my country.

I know you love USA - your country. But please consider that there might be other nice places on this earth as well.
And believe me - Europe is not a bad place at all.

I'll leave it there.


Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:18 am

slamming other countries (like Norway) and dismissing the possibility that other people on this planet might have a good way of life too!!!???

I never stated this at all. My defense was in the attitude that the U.S.A. was somehow beneath Norway in any way shape or form, an this I have a problem with. I am sure Norway along with many other European countries have cultures that I can only dream of experiencing. Lets face it, American culture is highly more accessible.

The U.S.A. is a place that I am glad I was born in, and I am not ashamed to admit it. If another country has enough evidence of having a better life..then I shall grasp that idea with open arms and explore it. Though it would have to be a hell of alot more evidence then this.

The superiorities of the U.S.A. are many and without a doubt I live in the most important country in the world. You don't share this view, that is fine. We all have opinions. Last time I saw, I didn't slam this down your throats with a post stating such till others started it. Like I said, the situation would Norway, I couldn't care less.

Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:32 am


The superiorities of the U.S.A. are many and without a doubt I live in the most important country in the world. You don't share this view, that is fine. We all have opinions. [quote]

I've never said that I don't consider USA the most important country in the world.

That is not what this topic is all about, either!

And once again; it's that tunnel vision of yours that bothers me:

"Without a doubt I live in the most important country in the world..."

Well, anyway...


Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:05 am

I am just speaking the truth. Though I didn't say I was coudn't change my mind. I just haven't seen enough evidence.

Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:21 pm

At the risk of the dark charge of being a "Cut and Paste" sort,
here goes nothing. It's an interesting op-ed from today's Washington Post.

The 'Stuff Happens' Presidency

By Harold Meyerson, Wednesday, September 7, 2005; A25

We're not number one. We're not even close.

By which measures, precisely, do we lead the world? Caring for our countrymen? You jest. A first-class physical infrastructure? Tell that to New Orleans. Throwing so much money at the rich that we've got nothing left over to promote the general welfare? Now you're talking.

The problem goes beyond the fact that we can't count on our government to be there for us in catastrophes. It's that a can't-do spirit, a shouldn't-do spirit, guides the men who run the nation. Consider the congressional testimony of Joe Allbaugh, George W. Bush's 2000 campaign manager, who assumed the top position at FEMA in 2001. He characterized the organization as "an oversized entitlement program," and counseled states and cities to rely instead on "faith-based organizations . . . like the Salvation Army and the Mennonite Disaster Service."

Is it any surprise, then, that the administration's response to the devastation in New Orleans is of a piece with its response to the sacking of Baghdad once our troops arrived? "Stuff happens" was the way Don Rumsfeld described the destruction of Baghdad's hospitals, universities and museums while American soldiers stood around. Now stuff has happened in New Orleans, too, even as FEMA was turning away offers of assistance. This is the stuff-happens administration. And it's willing, apparently, to sacrifice any claim America may have to national greatness rather than inconvenience the rich by taxing them to build a more secure nation.

As a matter of social policy, the catastrophic lack of response in New Orleans is exceptional only in its scale and immediacy. When it comes to caring for our fellow countrymen, we all know that America has never ranked very high. We are, of course, the only democracy in the developed world that doesn't offer health care to its citizens as a matter of right. We rank 34th among nations in infant mortality rates, behind such rival superpowers as Cyprus, Andorra and Brunei.

But these are chronic conditions, and even many of us who argue for universal health coverage have grown inured to that distinctly American indifference to the common good, to our radical lack of solidarity with our fellow citizens. Besides, the poor generally have the decency to die discreetly, and discretely -- not conspicuously, not in droves. Come rain or come shine, we leave millions of beleaguered Americans to fend for themselves on a daily basis. It's just a lot more noticeable in a horrific rain, and when the ordinary lack of access to medical care is augmented by an extraordinary lack of access to emergency services.

Even if we'll never win the national-greatness sweepstakes for solidarity, though, we've long been the model of the world in matters infrastructural, in roads, bridges and dams and the like. But the America in which Eisenhower the Good decreed the construction of the interstate highway system now seems a far-off land in which even conservatives believed in public expenditures for the public good. The radical-capitalist conservatives of the past quarter-century not only haven't supported the public expenditures, they don't even believe there is such a thing as the public good. Let the Dutch build their dikes through some socialistic scheme of taxing and spending; that isn't the American way. Here, the business of government is to let the private sector create wealth -- even if that wealth doesn't circulate where it's most needed. So George W. Bush threw trillions of dollars in tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans, and what did they do with it? Did the Walton family up in Bentonville raise the levees in New Orleans? Did the Bass family over in Texas write a tax-deductible check to the Mennonites for the billions of dollars they would need to rescue the elderly from inundated nursing homes?

Even now, with bedraggled rescuers pulling decomposed bodies from the muck of New Orleans, Bill Frist, the moral cretin who runs the U.S. Senate, wanted its first order of business this week to be the permanent repeal of the estate tax, until the public outcry persuaded him to change course. The Republicans profess belief in trickle-down, but what they've given us is the Flood.

The world looks on in stunned amazement, unable to understand how a once great nation has grown so indifferent not just to its poor and its blacks but even to the most rudimentary self-preservation. Some of it is institutional racism, but the primary culprit is the economic libertarianism that the president still espouses whenever he sells his Social Security snake oil. It's that libertarianism, more than anything else, that has transformed a great city into an immense morgue.

But, hey -- stuff happens. -H.M.

Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:15 pm

Ya know, considering that in the past 15 years or so the U.S. has gotten hit hard with hurricanes, floods, earthquakes, tornados and terrorists Norway's lookin' pretty good right about now. But if I move there I still want one of them horn-headed helmits by God! (oops, I mean by Odin!) :)

Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:12 pm

Great read Greg!

Sincerely MB280E

Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:56 am

Here's another ranking of countries.

And, genesim, it has the US in fourth place, so there's no reason to complain.

Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:09 am

I have been living in USA for the last 8 years and my opinion of the country has changed considerably through the years. Some things are better than my country, some are not. At the end I end up doing the same things here than in Spain, there is no more freedom. It's just the same. USA is beautiful but like the other countries are.

Going to Europe for 2 weeks is not gonna give you an idea if a place is better than others...

Genesim, if you were living in some other country you will be saying the same things of that country.


Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:02 am

Francesc..perhaps you maybe right, if perhaps in the top 10...not true if I were to live in one of the poorer countries.

Torben, I do appreciate the data...but where is Norway???

It is all relative. Despite the outliers and the obvious mass of the United States, isn't it funny how we still rank with the smaller countries that have a less of a chance of totals outside the medium.

As it stands, Buffet, Gates, Allen(charter communications), Waltons...all came from the U.S.A. I strive for the best and it just isn't as possible in the smaller countries. We are free to be rich, and the average doesn't mean squat to me...

It only means that the average person is still way under the BEST of the U.S.A. What good is that?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 11:30 am

A great many of the American tourists we meet here in Ireland wish they could stay.......and thousands of the intelligent ones have:-)

Quality of life is also a major factor.

We really enjoyed seeing America, city and country, but it was very nice indeed to get home. To real food for a start:-)

Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:44 pm

Maurice I am glad you like it so much in Ireland. You have made a wonderful decision for all of us.

Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:33 pm

genesim wrote:Maurice I am glad you like it so much in Ireland. You have made a wonderful decision for all of us.

genisem, you hardly speak for all. (A few here suffer that delusion) You can barely speak for yourself:-)

Shortly after the second world war J P Donleavy, came to Ireland on the G.I. bill to study at our famous Trinity College University. He made a lot of money writing books and went to back to America to live in New York city, but the noise of that city had him thinking of the peace and quiet of county Wicklow.
He returned to Ireland and bought a Mansion here with acres of land. He lives there still. A very funny author his book, "Are You Listening Rabbi Lowe?", is hillarious. A tonic for the uninformed:-)

Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:53 pm

Right, Ireland is the place to be...right.

Guess I'll stay "ignorant". :lol:

Funny for someone that talks about the inability to speak for themselves, you seem to quote alot of what other people think?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:17 pm

genisem, Quoting others (Intelligent observers) often saves a lot of time. Especially when dealing with those unable to face facts.

Nothing I've read here has stretched my ability to think. But it is often entertaining to witness how a person can be blinded by nationalism and ignorance.

The USA is huge compared to Ireland.

Yet Americans arrive here by the tens of thousands every week........why?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:29 pm

Are you trying to say that more people want to live in Ireland over the USA? You wanna talk immigration???

Nothing I've read here has stretched my ability to think.

Of course not, you have reached your limit.

Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:38 pm

Don't be silly :lol:

That's why we did not go to war with Russia.................where would we put all the prisoners?

As for my limit..there isn't that amount of Guinness in stock!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:42 pm

Good ol Maurice...a legend in his own MIND!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:46 pm

What a Pathetic reply from the board's famous whinger :shock:

Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:37 pm

Is that all you got? :lol: I spoke the truth. That without calling a single name.

p.s. Whats a "whinger'"?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:11 pm

Whiner, I think he meant whiner. But, I'm just guessing.


Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:12 pm

genesim wrote:Is that all you got? :lol: I spoke the truth. That without calling a single name.

p.s. Whats a "whinger'"?
Why a genisem of course :lol:

This circle has now been circumnavigated enough. Bye Bye.