FTD - 3 CD sets

[JamieAKelley]

The missing Follow That Dream tracks come to maybe ten minutes, the complete session clocking in at around seventy minutes. Everything fits with ease on one CD. The Kid Galahad material requires two CDs. You need to combine these two soundtracks to make a 3-CD set, which makes sense in some ways.

There's a pretty decent link, actually - "A Whistling Tune" was recorded at both sets of sessions.

On an overall note.. there's also no real reason these should be at some astronomically high premium, either - most of the sessions have, by now, been transferred by the best means possible from people (Vic, Sebastian, Kevan, etc) who know what they're doing. All that's left to do for much of it is mixing, some additional restoration work, and mastering. With sessions, there's no need for much in the way of reverb/etc. So it should be at a point to be easily done by someone with a keen and careful eye for the goals of said releases.

So if they were to even release "Follow That Dream" and "Kid Galahad" as separate session releases (not saying they should, just hypothetically) those shouldn't cost more than a standard FTD. The 3,4,+ CD sets are different, but that's as much due to extra licensing costs than anything.

[drjohncarpenter]

So I take it you didn't buy the "King Creole" classic album? Because, not counting the demos since they aren't Elvis, that was scraps.

You're joking, right?




A Disc For Danny Fisher (2015 edition)
http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=89200

[epf]

The possibility of passing reel to reel tapes to CD is simply fascinating.
1.- the sound is dry, with a quality superior to vinyl
2 .- There is a generation closer to the original tape than in the original US vinyl, which is closest to the original master tapes worldwide. Japanese vinyls are better pressed but clearly one or two generations worse
3 .- I have a friend who has passed to cd a few reel to reel tapes of Elvis commercial 7 1/2 and 3 3/4 ips, with top quality domestic machines, and the result is great. We can imagine with the original tapes.
4.- I am surprised that in the bootleg market, or in the liberalized rights until December 31, 1962, this system has not been used yet from RCA reel to reel commercial tapes.
The surprise would be huge for Elvis fans.

1. as far as limits are not cut you will find superior sound on vinyl. there are more dynamics and the detail of the sound is more detailed. try for instance to play a mint copy of let's say the 9th of Beethoven on a LP and then the same album on cd.
2. use analogue master and takes tapes for maximizing sound quality
5. do not use every fart, burp and curse ever uttered. he was recording in the privacy of the studio. Alternates can be interesting, but I am not in favor of releasing Elvis' embarrassing moments just for 'completeness'

otherwise I am all for it

oh.. f*rt is not allowed on here. it reads as Fool on here.

[JamieAKelley]

So I take it you didn't buy the "King Creole" classic album? Because, not counting the demos since they aren't Elvis, that was scraps.

You're joking, right?




A Disc For Danny Fisher (2015 edition)
http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=89200

Actually, no I'm not. I never said you couldn't make a justification for it (though I should have said so at the time, actually), and I'm very glad I got that release. But the amazing sonic revelations aside, there's not much on there (besides the demos) that's not been heard before on other official releases. So if "rebuying for 5%-20% we didn't have" is a bridge too far, that technically falls under that category. Again, nothing about this fact discounts how cool the release is in ANY way. But it's still 80%-90% released material. If we want to get really technical, it's two versions of the same masters on the same disc even. Now, I can knock that argument down just as fast as you can from a fan/music/historical perspective, but there's still truth in it.

All of this leading to one point: us buying complete sessions would not be that different, if at all, from the buying pattern most of us happily engage in now. Personal preference is really the only difference.

And you can add the recent MSQ and Aloha re-releases, as well. Very unique sound and great releases, but also stuff we've already had in some form.

[midnightx]

"Keep those other takes, we don't want 'em!" Really?

Who has taken that position? If FTD decides that it wants to purge the remaining outtakes from the archives, it can release them on new compilations at a much more attractive price point -- you insinuate that FTD needs to reissue all the previously released material it has already issued in order to release additional outtakes.

Then don't buy them, simple as that.

That is an obnoxious position to take. A number of FTD consumers have supported the label for 18 years and in many instances, purchased nearly every title. That support deserves consideration, and a legitimate argument can be made that it is in bad taste for FTD to dangle unreleased material that remains on certain session reels through expensive, bloated, multi-disc reissued titles. Under that scenario many fans will begrudgingly repurchase a lot previously released material just to acquire the outtake material -- and not because they need to maintain complete collections, but because they want the music. So, it is not as simple as "not buying them." There should be a more equitable solution to this conundrum. Some of you guys just want new product to acquire regardless if most of it contains recycled material. Others have invested large sums of money into their FTD collections and do not feel it is necessary to spend considerable money on new releases that in some cases will recycle 80%-90% or more music just to acquire a handful of remaining outtakes with everything in chronological order. Simple enough for you?

[clambake1967]

The possibility of passing reel to reel tapes to CD is simply fascinating.
1.- the sound is dry, with a quality superior to vinyl
2 .- There is a generation closer to the original tape than in the original US vinyl, which is closest to the original master tapes worldwide. Japanese vinyls are better pressed but clearly one or two generations worse
3 .- I have a friend who has passed to cd a few reel to reel tapes of Elvis commercial 7 1/2 and 3 3/4 ips, with top quality domestic machines, and the result is great. We can imagine with the original tapes.
4.- I am surprised that in the bootleg market, or in the liberalized rights until December 31, 1962, this system has not been used yet from RCA reel to reel commercial tapes.
The surprise would be huge for Elvis fans.

1. as far as limits are not cut you will find superior sound on vinyl. there are more dynamics and the detail of the sound is more detailed. try for instance to play a mint copy of let's say the 9th of Beethoven on a LP and then the same album on cd.
2. use analogue master and takes tapes for maximizing sound quality
5. do not use every Fool, burp and curse ever uttered. he was recording in the privacy of the studio. Alternates can be interesting, but I am not in favor of releasing Elvis' embarrassing moments just for 'completeness'

otherwise I am all for it

oh.. f*rt is not allowed on here. it reads as Fool on here.

agree!

[Lohmax]

I'm in. However, I agree that such a release should be worth buying for anybody who already got all the previous FTD, Legacy and RCA/BMG/Sony releases - which is most collectors, I suppose. If there's enough new material, I will be very much interested, especially as some of the older releases never got the Ansini or alternative quality treatment.
If it is just recycled material, then it won't sell and that's the end of the project. However, Ernst should give it a try and then let's see. We might like it.

[JamieAKelley]

"Keep those other takes, we don't want 'em!" Really?

Who has taken that position? If FTD decides that it wants to purge the remaining outtakes from the archives, it can release them on new compilations at a much more attractive price point -- you insinuate that FTD needs to reissue all the previously released material it has already issued in order to release additional outtakes.

Then don't buy them, simple as that.

That is an obnoxious position to take. A number of FTD consumers have supported the label for 18 years and in many instances, purchased nearly every title. That support deserves consideration, and a legitimate argument can be made that it is in bad taste for FTD to dangle unreleased material that remains on certain session reels through expensive, bloated, multi-disc reissued titles. Under that scenario many fans will begrudgingly repurchase a lot previously released material just to acquire the outtake material -- and not because they need to maintain complete collections, but because they want the music. So, it is not as simple as "not buying them." There should be a more equitable solution to this conundrum. Some of you guys just want new product to acquire regardless if most of it contains recycled material. Others have invested large sums of money into their FTD collections and do not feel it is necessary to spend considerable money on new releases that in some cases will recycle 80%-90% or more music just to acquire a handful of remaining outtakes with everything in chronological order. Simple enough for you?

I'll make it simple, in turn: I don't buy every FTD release anymore. I buy the ones I want. So it's not meant to be "obnoxious", it's just truth. If I don't feel it's worth it - like with many of the soundboards you mentioned awhile back - I don't buy them. Why should this be any different?

Yeah, absolutely, they should have done complete sessions years ago. That was the best option. I've been saying that for longer than FTD has been around. Does it suck to have to buy it over again to get the last bits because FTD either thought that was good marketing (most likely) or lacked foresight? You bet. Back when I was calling for this years ago, the same fans were then calling the idea of things like that pedantic/stupid/etc take your pic. Now it's "money grabbing". Forgive me if that looks like the same crap-flinging on a different day from a different angle.

Now, after exhausting all over options, FTD is finally (maybe) considering what I wanted in the first damn place. So, yeah, I'll jump one last time. But I've stopped buying every CD just because it has Elvis' face or name on it, after spending thousands+. So I'm keenly aware of all of the expense concerns you've mentioned. It'd be great if they'd handled it differently, but they didn't. So here we are, and I say make the best of it. As for discs collecting the remainder: that wouldn't fix the "fresh fish special" (kidding, kinda) take edits, and still leave things scattered and out of order. Having it all in one place, finally, would be great. Not having to edit these sessions together anymore and having it all sonically consistent would also be a very nice addition.

And again, as I've said any number of times.. there is zero reason, other than greed/etc, that these should be much more (per disc) than a regular FTD. Even with the box idea I had. Having seven albums under my belt, I'm familiar with most of the pressing costs for short 1000-5000 runs. These full sessions should be roughly the same as we are spending now. And until we know what they plan to charge for these, all price ideas are just ideas. If they're talking about $100 or something crazy for this, then yeah - I don't see them selling many given what's left unreleased. But at regular FTD price, it's not bad.

[emjel]

Years ago, it was stated that Ernst's viewpoint was that he felt it was wrong for Sony/RCA to put out box sets with the odd few takes that had never been issued before, thus pushing collectors into parting with money for the majority of stuff they already had, just to get a few unreleased songs or takes. I wonder where the line is now if this idea of full session 3 CD Sets becomes a reality.
I am not against having unreleased outtakes, and I wouldn’t have a problem with mop up type releases. Of course it really comes down to price for me as it will for many others. If they put the 3 CD Sets out for £27.99, then I’m not going to quibble over an extra £6, but I suspect they will be at least £39.99. Time will tell I guess.

[The Pirate]

Let's put this "nobody is forcing you to buy the new expanded versions" scenario another way.

Imagine you're a climber, and your lifelong dream has been to reach the summit of Everest. You train, and you save up for years to get all the equipment and your travel costs, and the fee for going up the mountain, and finally you set off to the Himalayas. Two decades it's taken, but you're there at last, and one day you're actually in sight of the top. There's an easy and obvious route, but just as you're about to set foot on it your path is blocked, and a sign says, "Sorry. In order to go the last hundred metres you need to go back to the bottom, start again at the other side, and pay another fee. Or, you could just bugger off and forget the last twenty years ever happened. After all, you got in sight of the top. That should be enough for you."

[JamieAKelley]

Let's put this "nobody is forcing you to buy the new expanded versions" scenario another way.

Imagine you're a climber, and your lifelong dream has been to reach the summit of Everest. You train, and you save up for years to get all the equipment and your travel costs, and the fee for going up the mountain, and finally you set off to the Himalayas. Two decades it's taken, but you're there at last, and one day you're actually in sight of the top. There's an easy and obvious route, but just as you're about to set foot on it your path is blocked, and a sign says, "Sorry. In order to go the last hundred metres you need to go back to the bottom, start again at the other side, and pay another fee. Or, you could just bugger off and forget the last twenty years ever happened. After all, you got in sight of the top. That should be enough for you."

I can explain it thusly:

At one time, I thought I'd try to keep up on every Elvis CD release and promo, period. Eventually, I had to narrow my scope. I got to the top of "my mountain", and decided that's where I'd stop climbing and enjoy the view I had.

Honestly, until I saw this I never thought they'd ever seriously consider session releases. It's why I'm so active on this topic. I'd said "screw it, they have no interest" years ago.

I'm not saying it doesn't suck on some level. But I'm glad the idea is finally there. I'll climb that one last hill if they open the gate for me.

If they want to make a clean cut to ease on FTD completists, make it it's own thing that's not technically a part of FTD. Call it "The Elvis RCA Vault" or something. That way you can have every FTD and not feel like you have to buy the sessions.

[vinyljunkie]

1. as far as limits are not cut you will find superior sound on vinyl. there are more dynamics and the detail of the sound is more detailed. try for instance to play a mint copy of let's say the 9th of Beethoven on a LP and then the same album on cd.

This is completely wrong. Vinyl isn't even close to CD when you speak of dynamic range. Vinyl is for pop music, not classical music.
In theory you can maybe get 60dB from a vinyl album. CD is 96dB. This cannot be discussed, it's a fact. Ask yourself why there's no vinyl revival for classical music?

Thomas S.

[epf]

1. as far as limits are not cut you will find superior sound on vinyl. there are more dynamics and the detail of the sound is more detailed. try for instance to play a mint copy of let's say the 9th of Beethoven on a LP and then the same album on cd.

This is completely wrong. Vinyl isn't even close to CD when you speak of dynamic range. Vinyl is for pop music, not classical music.
In theory you can maybe get 60dB from a vinyl album. CD is 96dB. This cannot be discussed, it's a fact. Ask yourself why there's no vinyl revival for classical music?

Thomas S.

Thanks for the friendly reply.

Well, I think you are wrong, too. to say that cd has superior superior sound is misleading. Because you do not hear the whole spectrum on cd, because of the way the sound is clipped. If you want to to have superior digital sound you need to have HiRes files, or if your bandwidth and wallet can sustain it. That way you have more dynamics and range, by the way those files are designed. That, too, is a fact that cannot discussed.

And there are some streaming services who stream almost HiRes, also and especially for classical music, but also for pop music.

[drjohncarpenter]

So I take it you didn't buy the "King Creole" classic album? Because, not counting the demos since they aren't Elvis, that was scraps.

You're joking, right?




A Disc For Danny Fisher (2015 edition)
http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=89200

Actually, no I'm not. I never said you couldn't make a justification for it (though I should have said so at the time, actually), and I'm very glad I got that release. But the amazing sonic revelations aside, there's not much on there (besides the demos) that's not been heard before on other official releases. So if "rebuying for 5%-20% we didn't have" is a bridge too far, that technically falls under that category. Again, nothing about this fact discounts how cool the release is in ANY way. But it's still 80%-90% released material. If we want to get really technical, it's two versions of the same masters on the same disc even. Now, I can knock that argument down just as fast as you can from a fan/music/historical perspective, but there's still truth in it.

All of this leading to one point: us buying complete sessions would not be that different, if at all, from the buying pattern most of us happily engage in now. Personal preference is really the only difference.

And you can add the recent MSQ and Aloha re-releases, as well. Very unique sound and great releases, but also stuff we've already had in some form.

Your analogy doesn't apply here. The truth is that 2015 FTD gave the fan everything they possibly could from the "King Creole" sessions, and all of it mastered from original, 1958 reels. The demos are there because of the lack of outtake reels, and they are fascinating on their own. They do help tell the story, and those featuring Jimmy Breedlove are astonishingly good.

As for the argument point I highlighted, that isn't one of mine. My point remains that a second or third (or fourth) troll through Elvis studio session reels for outtakes, false starts, jokes, bum notes, and chatter isn't going to provide any insight or musical pleasure.

In other words, it won't add to his legacy.

[dougkapp]

I think we need to understand this matter in two point of view: first Ernst is keeping FTD alive for some more years. Second: this kind of release, if it becomes to reality, is not for everybody, but only for few collectors who wants to keep his collection complete. This kind of release, if the "upcoming" 3 cd set be true, is not release for everybody. By the way, I think it's very interesting FTD release some complete sessions.

I remember a couple of years ago, when VENUS (import label) released the serie "Jungle Room", with almost complete sessions, rough mix, undubbed masters and others.... guys... there were a lot of people in this forum praising that releases !! So, why a import label can release complete sessions and FTD doesn't?? Why when a certain release (complete sessions, soundboard) is doing by import label everybody praise the label, but when FTD starts the release a similar product some people attack FTD? I think this is not a right thing to do. We need to support the label. IMO.

[drjohncarpenter]

I think we need to understand this matter in two point of view: first Ernst is keeping FTD alive for some more years. Second: this kind of release, if it becomes to reality, is not for everybody, but only for few collectors who wants to keep his collection complete. This kind of release, if the "upcoming" 3 cd set be true, is not release for everybody. By the way, I think it's very interesting FTD release some complete sessions.

I remember a couple of years ago, when VENUS (import label) released the serie "Jungle Room", with almost complete sessions, rough mix, undubbed masters and others.... guys... there were a lot of people in this forum praising that releases !! So, why a import label can release complete sessions and FTD doesn't?? Why when a certain release (complete sessions, soundboard) is doing by import label everybody praise the label, but when FTD starts the release a similar product some people attack FTD? I think this is not a right thing to do. We need to support the label. IMO.

Let's return to the facts. FTD has not released any such complete sessions discs. Currently, members here are discussing the general idea of such a project, and every opinion, in its own way, is supporting the label.

Why can import labels issue chronological session tracks? Because there is nothing to stop them. There is no corporate structure, or retail business plan, that they must adhere to in the process. Nor is there any concern about precedent, or aesthetic. All of these apply to a major label project, even those titles that come out on a collector subsidiary label.

Also, I certainly do not remember "everybody praise the label" when Venus Productions put out that 5 CD series covering the Graceland sessions. And, just so you know, it was not the "complete" sessions, either.

[JamieAKelley]

So I take it you didn't buy the "King Creole" classic album? Because, not counting the demos since they aren't Elvis, that was scraps.

You're joking, right?




A Disc For Danny Fisher (2015 edition)
http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=89200

Actually, no I'm not. I never said you couldn't make a justification for it (though I should have said so at the time, actually), and I'm very glad I got that release. But the amazing sonic revelations aside, there's not much on there (besides the demos) that's not been heard before on other official releases. So if "rebuying for 5%-20% we didn't have" is a bridge too far, that technically falls under that category. Again, nothing about this fact discounts how cool the release is in ANY way. But it's still 80%-90% released material. If we want to get really technical, it's two versions of the same masters on the same disc even. Now, I can knock that argument down just as fast as you can from a fan/music/historical perspective, but there's still truth in it.

All of this leading to one point: us buying complete sessions would not be that different, if at all, from the buying pattern most of us happily engage in now. Personal preference is really the only difference.

And you can add the recent MSQ and Aloha re-releases, as well. Very unique sound and great releases, but also stuff we've already had in some form.

Your analogy doesn't apply here. The truth is that 2015 FTD gave the fan everything they possibly could from the "King Creole" sessions, and all of it mastered from original, 1958 reels. The demos are there because of the lack of outtake reels, and they are fascinating on their own. They do help tell the story, and those featuring Jimmy Breedlove are astonishingly good.

But again, not much of that hasn't been heard on "Hits Like Never Before" and various outtake-compiling box sets. The rest is justification. I say it's valid, you say it's valid, but it's much of the same even if we feel that way. Just because we like it and see the value/difference doesn't change that. We bought the same takes of the same songs we've had for awhile now. And I'm not knocking the demos at all - I'd be up for hearing a lot more, maybe a disc of the demos brought to Elvis at the sessions, like we got on this release. But I set those aside to highlight that there's not much "new" or unheard on the Elvis front for that release.

As for the argument point I highlighted, that isn't one of mine. My point remains that a second or third (or fourth) troll through Elvis studio session reels for outtakes, false starts, jokes, bum notes, and chatter isn't going to provide any insight or musical pleasure.

In other words, it won't add to his legacy.

No, I know it's not yours, I was more speaking "in general" on that point since I was on the topic.

As for musical pleasure, I enjoy being able to hear a complete session without cuts or edits, in order, for a "fly on the wall" experience as some kind of history is being made. Much like we got on the "Gold Records 2" FTD. I loved hearing that, and I'm sure you did, too. Many sessions have only been heard chopped up and out of order. I think there's merit in having it together. Your thoughts here tell me you don't, and that's all fine and good. But I say the context adds at least a bit of insight and definitely is a pleasure to hear. So, and I mean no offense with this, you don't speak for everybody.

On musical legacy.. you could argue that 1/4th to 1/2 the FTD catalog doesn't add to his legacy (if judging by how much of any live release after '72/'74 is judged on this board is any indication). It's justified to us, we enjoy it. Same for this, at least for me (and others here).

Why can import labels issue chronological session tracks? Because there is nothing to stop them. There is no corporate structure, or retail business plan, that they must adhere to in the process. Nor is there any concern about precedent, or aesthetic. All of these apply to a major label project, even those titles that come out on a collector subsidiary label.

FTD have released complete sessions (at least as much as they have) on prior releases (Gold 2, Loving You, Elvis Presley, A Boy From Tupelo, etc), so unless there's a contract for a specific session in the way for musician royalties, I'm not sure what would make this much more expensive than what they've done in the past.

[vinyljunkie]

Thanks for the friendly reply.

Well, I think you are wrong, too. to say that cd has superior superior sound is misleading. Because you do not hear the whole spectrum on cd, because of the way the sound is clipped. If you want to to have superior digital sound you need to have HiRes files, or if your bandwidth and wallet can sustain it. That way you have more dynamics and range, by the way those files are designed. That, too, is a fact that cannot discussed.

And there are some streaming services who stream almost HiRes, also and especially for classical music, but also for pop music.

Please read what I write not what fits your arguments. I was refering to your comments about dynamics. And dynamics only. You can easily meassure the dynamic range from your turntable using your soundcard on your computer. Put on your Beethoven and post your results proving that the dynamic range is above 60dB my guess is that you can be very satisfied if you manage 56dB. This way you can prove me wrong.

And I can agree with you when speaking of high resolution audio, it is ofcours theoretcally better than CD. Raising the bit rate will increase the dynamic range, but CD is allready more than good enough compared to vinyl. That is also the reason why 24bit has been a standard and not many see the need to increase it to 32bit. You don't really need better dynamic range for music of any type. You might be able to hear some minor improvement increasing the sampling rate. But that's it, but it won't give you better dynamics, just better frequency response. That is the whole idea behind the way we digitize analogue music.

As said it's a fact, no thinking really needed. And of course my tone is a bit harsh, I agree with that. But this misuderstandings about dynamic range and vinyl seems to be an argument all the time. And people are beginning to believe it, it's a bit lake fake news out of control. CD has much better dynamics than vinyl, that is the truth. And you can prove it quite easily yourself.

What is the better for your ears is not my point here, that is personal. You can enjoy your vinyl the way you like. But don't say it's better than CD as it has better dynamic range, the vinyl as a medium is too noisy to have CD like dynamic range.

But back to topic.
The last four to five years the FTD label is like the old RCA days of the 80's. The same stuff all over again except for the soundboards, not that they seem to be very interesting either. The feeling is always that you have heard the show earlier, as they are very much the same. Same songs again and again.

ANd if they now will release new 3 cd sets with complete sessions they have been fooling us from the start. First we got single CD's with new takes, like "LOng lonely highway" , Fame and fortune, Studio B outtakes etc. Then we got the same takes again on the classic album sets, with a few more added as a bonus tempting us to buy the music one more time. ANd now we'll get them for the third time with just a few new takes. These days FTD is all about greed, not serving the fans that we felt they did in the beginning of the FTD era.

[Tornado]

I really like the Kid Galahad songs...its just easy listening...

Some might argue it is very difficult listening.

It must be very boring to just listen to 50s tracks and 1968 and 1969 and 1970 material. And calling all other mediocre..you are a poor fan.

How do you draw that conclusion. I listen to all 50-70s recordings with my favourite period 1960-63 when Elvis' voice was at its very best. Strange you omitted that period to try and prove some kind of point. And of course the 50s and 68-71 which is great. I do not class the remaining 70s as being mediocre which is somewhat of a sweeping statement that you make. It has its good recordings and not so good. I enjoy listening to the 60s soundtracks and accept them for what they are, but that does not mean that in relation to a star of Elvis' magnitude, they are great recordings.

But even if I were to enjoy only the years you quote, there is far more variety in all of those songs recorded during those times than the same old repetive songs and shows that are on the Soundboards you crave for.



Owning complete U.K. and US lifetime collections in mono and stereo variants and 90% of FTD releases - me a poor fan.....I don’t think so - you haven’t got a clue.

I totally agree with what you said and yes indeed, Elvis best voice was between 1960-1963. I always thought so. Let’s finish the job with the regular albums that yet need to be on FTD.

[Mike Windgren]

Hi there!! .

So I take it you didn't buy the "King Creole" classic album? Because, not counting the demos since they aren't Elvis, that was scraps.

You're joking, right?




A Disc For Danny Fisher (2015 edition)
http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=89200

Actually, no I'm not. I never said you couldn't make a justification for it (though I should have said so at the time, actually), and I'm very glad I got that release. But the amazing sonic revelations aside, there's not much on there (besides the demos) that's not been heard before on other official releases. So if "rebuying for 5%-20% we didn't have" is a bridge too far, that technically falls under that category. Again, nothing about this fact discounts how cool the release is in ANY way. But it's still 80%-90% released material. If we want to get really technical, it's two versions of the same masters on the same disc even. Now, I can knock that argument down just as fast as you can from a fan/music/historical perspective, but there's still truth in it.

All of this leading to one point: us buying complete sessions would not be that different, if at all, from the buying pattern most of us happily engage in now. Personal preference is really the only difference.

And you can add the recent MSQ and Aloha re-releases, as well. Very unique sound and great releases, but also stuff we've already had in some form.

Your analogy doesn't apply here. The truth is that 2015 FTD gave the fan everything they possibly could from the "King Creole" sessions, and all of it mastered from original, 1958 reels. The demos are there because of the lack of outtake reels, and they are fascinating on their own. They do help tell the story, and those featuring Jimmy Breedlove are astonishingly good.

But again, not much of that hasn't been heard on "Hits Like Never Before" and various outtake-compiling box sets. The rest is justification. I say it's valid, you say it's valid, but it's much of the same even if we feel that way. Just because we like it and see the value/difference doesn't change that. We bought the same takes of the same songs we've had for awhile now. And I'm not knocking the demos at all - I'd be up for hearing a lot more, maybe a disc of the demos brought to Elvis at the sessions, like we got on this release. But I set those aside to highlight that there's not much "new" or unheard on the Elvis front for that release.

As for the argument point I highlighted, that isn't one of mine. My point remains that a second or third (or fourth) troll through Elvis studio session reels for outtakes, false starts, jokes, bum notes, and chatter isn't going to provide any insight or musical pleasure.

In other words, it won't add to his legacy.

No, I know it's not yours, I was more speaking "in general" on that point since I was on the topic.

As for musical pleasure, I enjoy being able to hear a complete session without cuts or edits, in order, for a "fly on the wall" experience as some kind of history is being made. Much like we got on the "Gold Records 2" FTD. I loved hearing that, and I'm sure you did, too. Many sessions have only been heard chopped up and out of order. I think there's merit in having it together. You don't, and that's all fine and good. But I say the context adds at least a bit of insight and definitely is a pleasure to hear. So, and I mean no offense with this, you don't speak for everybody.

On musical legacy.. you could argue that 1/4th to 1/2 the FTD catalog doesn't add to his legacy (if judging by how much of any live release after '72/'74 is judged on this board is any indication). It's justified to us, we enjoy it. Same for this, at least for me (and others here).

Why can import labels issue chronological session tracks? Because there is nothing to stop them. There is no corporate structure, or retail business plan, that they must adhere to in the process. Nor is there any concern about precedent, or aesthetic. All of these apply to a major label project, even those titles that come out on a collector subsidiary label.

FTD have released complete sessions (at least as much as they have) on prior releases (Gold 2, Loving You, Elvis Presley, A Boy From Tupelo, etc), so unless there's a contract for a specific session in the way for musician royalties, I'm not sure what would make this much more expensive than what they've done in the past.

If I´m not mistaken, the first complete session we have had from FTD, was the June 10/11, 1958 at RCA Studio B in Nashville. It was included on the wonderful Elvis´Gold Records Vol 2, mastered beautifully by FTD recording engineer & true Elvis scholar "Kevan Budd"! . Bye for now .

[vinyljunkie]

I really like the Kid Galahad songs...its just easy listening...

Some might argue it is very difficult listening.

It must be very boring to just listen to 50s tracks and 1968 and 1969 and 1970 material. And calling all other mediocre..you are a poor fan.

It's not boring at all. It's by far his very best years. The early 60's 60-61 is also good. But from 62 it is too much boring stuff. Not many interesting tracks from Girls, Girls, Girls if you compare to what he had done previous. Why spend valuable time playing Elvis' poor stuff when you can listen to other artists instead.

[Mike Windgren]

Hi there!! .

I really like the Kid Galahad songs...its just easy listening...

Some might argue it is very difficult listening.

It must be very boring to just listen to 50s tracks and 1968 and 1969 and 1970 material. And calling all other mediocre..you are a poor fan.

It's not boring at all. It's by far his very best years. The early 60's 60-61 is also good. But from 62 it is too much boring stuff. Not many interesting tracks from Girls, Girls, Girls if you compare to what he had done previous. Why spend valuable time playing Elvis' poor stuff when you can listen to other artists instead.

Elvis recorded great songs in 1962/63 at his regular studio sessions too! . Bye for now .

..

[JamieAKelley]

I really like the Kid Galahad songs...its just easy listening...

Some might argue it is very difficult listening.

It must be very boring to just listen to 50s tracks and 1968 and 1969 and 1970 material. And calling all other mediocre..you are a poor fan.

It's not boring at all. It's by far his very best years. The early 60's 60-61 is also good. But from 62 it is too much boring stuff. Not many interesting tracks from Girls, Girls, Girls if you compare to what he had done previous. Why spend valuable time playing Elvis' poor stuff when you can listen to other artists instead.

I don't know about them, but I've got a wide range of artists' music I've purchased. But sometimes I want to hear Elvis, but something that different. So I'm glad I have that material to listen to. I don't tend to subject my taste on anyone's purchasing options, so I don't see how anybody else has the right to.

Don't want to listen to outtakes of "Do The Vega"? Okie-dokie - just send 'em my way and everybody's happy. It should be no harder than that, imo.

[Dan_T]

I'd love to own complete sessions over 3 CD's, please bring them on, Ernst !

[drjohncarpenter]

FTD have released complete sessions (at least as much as they have) on prior releases (Gold 2, Loving You, Elvis Presley, A Boy From Tupelo, etc), so unless there's a contract for a specific session in the way for musician royalties, I'm not sure what would make this much more expensive than what they've done in the past.

Those are exceptions which I addressed earlier in this discussion, all from the crucial 1950s period, and thus of both musical and historical importance. They do not apply to doing the same for, say, soundtrack sessions done in 1965.