Paul Lichter auction 1997 - real or unreal? YOU DECIDE!

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merry77
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Re: Paul Lichter auction 1997 - real or unreal? YOU DECIDE!

#1612277

Post by merry77 »

I will be going to the O2 exhibit on November 10th.
The fact they claim to show suits that have not seen before is tempting. I hope it is true.
I'd still love to see that black brocade suit that looks like the dancers costume from the 68 special.
The Phoenix jumpsuits were however already on display at the All access exhibit which I also visited. So no new ones there.
They will also show the (stone) tiger suit and cape (which they just acquired). The suit has been on display at the rock and soul museum.

I'd love to see the backside (belt) of the white conquistador which EPE owns. I also wish they show some more belts. It's mostly just the suits.

Also a correction:
Green cisko is owned by Heather Mozart
Wheat suit now owned by Heather
Peacock now owned by Heather

The dark blue with white phoenix was sold at the 90s Butterfield auction and is indeed the suit that member Eligain once showed wearing.
It is believed to be in the collection of SH.


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Re: Paul Lichter auction 1997 - real or unreal? YOU DECIDE!

#1612279

Post by Hollywood »

The Blue Phoenix suit to my knowledge has never come to auction. It certainly was not part of any 1990s auctions. Resides to my understanding in Oklahoma with the original buyer.

Can you confirm the suits you attributed to Heather?



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Re: Paul Lichter auction 1997 - real or unreal? YOU DECIDE!

#1612293

Post by elvisjock »

merry77 wrote:I will be going to the O2 exhibit on November 10th.
The fact they claim to show suits that have not seen before is tempting. I hope it is true.
I'd still love to see that black brocade suit that looks like the dancers costume from the 68 special.
The Phoenix jumpsuits were however already on display at the All access exhibit which I also visited. So no new ones there.
They will also show the (stone) tiger suit and cape (which they just acquired). The suit has been on display at the rock and soul museum.

I'd love to see the backside (belt) of the white conquistador which EPE owns. I also wish they show some more belts. It's mostly just the suits.

Also a correction:
Green cisko is owned by Heather Mozart
Wheat suit now owned by Heather
Peacock now owned by Heather

The dark blue with white phoenix was sold at the 90s Butterfield auction and is indeed the suit that member Eligain once showed wearing.
It is believed to be in the collection of SH.
Here are some belts for you (including nearly identical iterations of the Black Phoenix Suit belt).
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


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merry77
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Re: Paul Lichter auction 1997 - real or unreal? YOU DECIDE!

#1612294

Post by merry77 »

Hollywood wrote:The Blue Phoenix suit to my knowledge has never come to auction. It certainly was not part of any 1990s auctions. Resides to my understanding in Oklahoma with the original buyer.

Can you confirm the suits you attributed to Heather?
You're correct, I checked the auction catalog. It was the light blue Phoenix that was auctioned at the Butterfield auction.
Green cisko information is 100% reliable.
Peacock comes from other collector who knows HM.
Sorry, I can't disclose sources.


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Re: Paul Lichter auction 1997 - real or unreal? YOU DECIDE!

#1612296

Post by merry77 »

I know that screen capture from This is Elvis and actually made several myself.

What I mean is I want to see a couple of belts myself.
Among them the white conquistador. I’ve always been wondering how the backside of it looks.

Also I’d love to see one of the Spanish flowers’s backside (without the cape), same for the rainfall and (stone) Arabian suit.
So to be able to walka round the suits is great.
Wish they had done that earlier.
Unfortunately I missed the display of the White fireworks suit when it was on loan in Graceland.

elvisjock wrote:
Here are some belts for you (including nearly identical iterations of the Black Phoenix Suit belt).


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Re: Paul Lichter auction 1997 - real or unreal? YOU DECIDE!

#1612300

Post by Hollywood »

merry77 wrote:
Hollywood wrote:The Blue Phoenix suit to my knowledge has never come to auction. It certainly was not part of any 1990s auctions. Resides to my understanding in Oklahoma with the original buyer.

Can you confirm the suits you attributed to Heather?
You're correct, I checked the auction catalog. It was the light blue Phoenix that was auctioned at the Butterfield auction.
Green cisko information is 100% reliable.
Peacock comes from other collector who knows HM.
Sorry, I can't disclose sources.
Thanks for the info, no worries regarding sources I was just curious because I had heard a few rumors but this clinched it.

Thanks for your input friend.



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Re: Paul Lichter auction 1997 - real or unreal? YOU DECIDE!

#1612303

Post by moffringa »

drjohncarpenter wrote:Hmm.

I would not have bid on any of these.
Neither would I.



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Re: Paul Lichter auction 1997 - real or unreal? YOU DECIDE!

#1612314

Post by merry77 »

I would if I could.

moffringa wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Hmm.

I would not have bid on any of these.
Neither would I.


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Re: Paul Lichter auction 1997 - real or unreal? YOU DECIDE!

#1612325

Post by merry77 »

Metal eye suit from Hard rock:

If the suit is pure white (which is looks like judging from the photo) then I would have doubts about the authenticity.
Even the earlier suits were off white.

Also the eyelets are done differently if you compare it to the suit done at Graceland.
The lining in the arms is done very sloppy. With more close up photos I could check even better.
I would not bid on that suit.

Hollywood wrote:Here are the Hard Rock Suits


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Re: Paul Lichter auction 1997 - real or unreal? YOU DECIDE!

#1612361

Post by Hollywood »

merry77 wrote:Metal eye suit from Hard rock:

If the suit is pure white (which is looks like judging from the photo) then I would have doubts about the authenticity.
Even the earlier suits were off white.

Also the eyelets are done differently if you compare it to the suit done at Graceland.
The lining in the arms is done very sloppy. With more close up photos I could check even better.
I would not bid on that suit.

Hollywood wrote:Here are the Hard Rock Suits
It's cream like the others and can tell you the suit was in fair condition only, not great. 100% authentic.



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Re: Paul Lichter auction 1997 - real or unreal? YOU DECIDE!

#1665732

Post by noone »

Hollywood on Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:51 am wrote:
merry77 wrote:Metal eye suit from Hard rock:

If the suit is pure white (which is looks like judging from the photo) then I would have doubts about the authenticity.
Even the earlier suits were off white.

Also the eyelets are done differently if you compare it to the suit done at Graceland.
The lining in the arms is done very sloppy. With more close up photos I could check even better.
I would not bid on that suit.

Hollywood wrote:Here are the Hard Rock Suits
It's cream like the others and can tell you the suit was in fair condition only, not great. 100% authentic.

The suit at Graceland has a zipper all the way up the chest opening as you also can see in concert photos from september 1970. The suit at Hard rock does not have the zipper all the way up. Sadly don`t have photos from Aug 14 1970 that are good enough to see if there are a zipper all the way up or not....



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Re: Paul Lichter auction 1997 - real or unreal? YOU DECIDE!

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Post by noone »

And why would Elvis have two White Cisco Kid jumpsuits as it was only used 4-5 times from Aug 24th 1971 and out the last part of the season? wrong size?



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Re: Paul Lichter auction 1997 - real or unreal? YOU DECIDE!

#1665735

Post by noone »

Hollywood on Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:06 pm wrote:
merry77 wrote:green cisko kid
North Beach Leather - Mermaid
North Beach leather - rhinestones on shoulders and star pattern on the back
Penguin suit (upper part)
Except the Cisco Kid I don't consider the others "stage suits" as they were not designed to be worn on stage.

If we go down that road then you have to include :

two piece cream suit with lime green pocket flaps/ cape and matching shirt since he wore it on stage 1972 (my Collection)

Or it's matching jacket with gold lame flaps sold last year at auction.

You know what I mean? ::rocks

I saw that at Graceland can you post a photo of yours to see if there are some differences?



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Re: Paul Lichter auction 1997 - real or unreal? YOU DECIDE!

#1665818

Post by EPA4368 »

Paul Lichter auction 1997 - real or unreal? YOU DECIDE! Unreal imo.



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Re: Paul Lichter auction 1997 - real or unreal? YOU DECIDE!

#1665843

Post by DarrylMac »

Hollywood on Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:24 am wrote:
timothy_sideburns wrote:
Hollywood wrote: I attended the auction in person back in 1997. I will say that the if I can dream suit, the turquoise Phoenix, the Peackock suit, Elvis army uniform, and the blue speedway jacket that went up for sale at that auction we're all 100% authentic. To my knowledge the only items that Graceland owns that has Pauls association to it are in fact the teal phoenix suit as well as the if I can dream suit.
Thank you Hollywood, this is why I love this forum! That's amazing to hear and fascinating. I'd love to know more if you know more? For example do you know how Paul came to own these items? Did things like the Speedway jacket belong to MGM rather than Elvis? Likewise the NBC suit? What about the red TTWII shirt? There is an implied narrrative throughout the auction catalogue that Elvis gave many items to Paul (aside from the Norman Taurog collection) is this true of the clothes?
Hollywood wrote:The if I can dream suit we all know the backstory on that and how Graceland acquired it.


I don't know anything about this? Are you able to tell me more?!

::rocks
Regarding the stage suits............ I suspect he obtained them like most collectors at that time ....either through Elvis's aunt delta who was selling Elvis stuff outside the back of Graceland for booze money up to her passing, or the Stanley boys back in the late 1970s for drug money. Of course there's a number of other possibilities as people were walking out of Graceland with tons of stuff after Elvis died. However knowing how several other suits came to be in the market a lot of them trace back directly to Delta and the Stanley's. It's possible he may have obtained the white fireworks suit later on from Joe Esposito or Joe Esposito's brother.

Regarding the If I Can Dream suit...... after the special Elvis had kept the suit and worn it for a short period of time. At some point he actually gifted it to Mike McGregor as the suit was set to be cut up for the RCA swatch promotion. Mike McGregor inturn sold a suit to Paul years later, who auctioned it and was purchased by collector Larry Moss.

Jon Heath who was contracted by Graceland back in the early 1990s as a consultant had arranged a deal with Graceland. The deal was that Jon would obtain the if I can dream suit, then traded it to Graceland in exchange for two elves stage suits and a couple other miscellaneous items. The stage suits that Graceland traded were one of the flame suits with the red kickplete and The white prehistoric bird suit. Jon arranged with Larry Moss to purchase the suit for $100,000. So Jon mortgaged his home got the money, paid Larry, traded the suit to Graceland for the two jumpsuits mentioned earlier and then sold the flame suit to collector Heather Mozart, paid back the loan and he still has the prehistoric bird suit to this day plus a few other items that came directly from Graceland.

Regarding the speedway jacket.......unknown how he obtained it, but certainly was not from Elvis. All of the clothing for that movie was retained by the studio after production ended. Elvis opted to not take any of that wardrobe with him.

Regarding the red shirt...... I would have serious reservations that that shirt was worn by Elvis in the filming of that's the way it is. You have to remember that back in the 1990s a lot of people especially auction houses were not aware that Elvis often had multiples of pieces of wardrobe that he liked. So as an example that style shirt he could have three or four red ones five black ones two white ones etc. etc. There's really no way to know for sure whether or not it was worn during that sequence.

After the success of the Butterfields auctions from 1994 through 1996 Bonhams was excited to host their own Elvis auction. Paul at that time was a very well known with in the Elvis community but the auction houses were not aware of his poor reputation. With Paul Lichter exaggerating his relationship to Elvis, was a published Elvis author combined with the fact that he had some very impressive pieces the auction house basically took him at his word.

Hope this helps. ::rocks
Sorry to only be picking this up now. The Doc has always maintained that none of the wardrobe from the 68 special made it back home with Elvis for him to wear later, which is why he says the velvet jacket worn to meet Nixon can't be the same one as used in the 68 special. I posted pics at the time of Elvis wearing this white suit, and the red one from the gospel medley in the time around the 69 special, as well as the velvet suit being worn getting off a plane in late 70 / early 71, so it's good to have you agree that he did indeed keep and wear clothes from the special later.



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Re: Paul Lichter auction 1997 - real or unreal? YOU DECIDE!

#1666559

Post by noone »

noone on Mon May 21, 2018 5:31 pm wrote:And why would Elvis have two White Cisco Kid jumpsuits as it was only used 4-5 times from Aug 24th 1971 and out the last part of the season? wrong size?
No response?



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Re: Paul Lichter auction 1997 - real or unreal? YOU DECIDE!

#1666940

Post by drjohncarpenter »

DarrylMac on Tue May 22, 2018 7:27 am wrote:Sorry to only be picking this up now. The Doc has always maintained that none of the wardrobe from the 68 special made it back home with Elvis for him to wear later ...
IIRC, what I state is that assertions based on a few photographs of certain outfits worn after the TV special cannot be verified, and from my view the clothing in question in the examples previously discussed do not appear to be identical.


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Re: Paul Lichter auction 1997 - real or unreal? YOU DECIDE!

#1667106

Post by midnightx »

Difficult to imagine anyone buying high-priced items from him in an era when it is relatively easy for prospective buyers to do their homework.



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Re: Paul Lichter auction 1997 - real or unreal? YOU DECIDE!

#1667107

Post by elvis-fan »

Opening night... lol
Looks like Elvis had a white marker handy to sign that one too!!!
:smt018



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Re: Paul Lichter auction 1997 - real or unreal? YOU DECIDE!

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Post by See See Rider »

Wow imagine that, Elvis signed it for Paul! and he will only accept cash transfer directly to his bank, no pay pal or credit card accepted. Wonder why??? LOL


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Re: Paul Lichter auction 1997 - real or unreal? YOU DECIDE!

#1667745

Post by TheKingisthething »

see_see_rider on Thu May 31, 2018 7:15 am wrote:Wow imagine that, Elvis signed it for Paul! and he will only accept cash transfer directly to his bank, no pay pal or credit card accepted. Wonder why??? LOL

Of course we all know why!!!!!!! What a f**king crook!!




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Re: Paul Lichter auction 1997 - real or unreal? YOU DECIDE!

#1668115

Post by BobDylan »

Too bad he messed up what looks like a nice menu.



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Re: Paul Lichter auction 1997 - real or unreal? YOU DECIDE!

#1668131

Post by TINML »

BobDylan on Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:49 am wrote:Too bad he messed up what looks like a nice menu.
It was opening night, elvis had every right to be nervous. I’d let it slide ;)


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Re: Paul Lichter auction 1997 - real or unreal? YOU DECIDE!

#1668383

Post by r&b »

BobDylan on Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:49 pm wrote:Too bad he messed up what looks like a nice menu.
He certainly did. A very valuable item. Now,m with that fake garbage scribbled on it, I wouldnt buy it for 10.00!


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