Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

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George Smith wrote:
GuyLambert wrote:Ohhh Boys...the acetate was not one-sided. :shock: 8)

John Bakke was kind enough to send me photos of the acetate, so I could see if there were any traceable markings or #s on it. It seems there isn't. I investigated the acetate batch #3324 with no luck.

But it occurred to me to ask John if the flip side was smooth or grooved. Sometimes acetates are two-sided. He sent me a photo and there was a song on the flip! Well you can imagine the thoughts running through my head.

John said he had forgotten about that and that Marion had mentioned / played it to him at some point. Turns out its another demo...of a country novelty song sung by a white singer in the vein of Malcolm Yelvington called "No Gas." I couldn't find a trail on that tune either. But still very interesting. I'm thinking this was a song pitch demo, since no artists are listed. I also think that different writers wrote Without You and No Gas.
Oh, Lord.

I think I'm going to bed!

But, thank you!
George LOL :D


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

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drjohncarpenter wrote:
GuyLambert wrote:
George Smith wrote:The scenario is more than a little crazy, John -- it is mental (as we say in the UK).

It is the Elvis version of the magic bullet.

Here's the label-less disk as published by Guy Lambert in Mojo.

Image
Ohhh Boys...the acetate was not one-sided. :shock: 8)

John Bakke was kind enough to send me photos of the acetate, so I could see if there were any traceable markings or #s on it. It seems there isn't. I investigated the acetate batch #3324 with no luck.

But it occurred to me to ask John if the flip side was smooth or grooved. Sometimes acetates are two-sided. He sent me a photo and there was a song on the flip! Well you can imagine the thoughts running through my head.

John said he had forgotten about that and that Marion had mentioned / played it to him at some point. Turns out its another demo...of a country novelty song sung by a white singer in the vein of Malcolm Yelvington called "No Gas." I couldn't find a trail on that tune either. But still very interesting. I'm thinking this was a song pitch demo, since no artists are listed. I also think that different writers wrote Without You and No Gas.
Well, that's very interesting indeed. So, it sounds like Red Wortham prepared for Sam Phillips a "quickie" demo package of a ballad and an uptempo number ... that sounds familiar:

Red Wortham Sample Demos - May 1954
"Without You" / "No Gas"

I won't even get into the idea of whether, for any reason, Philips played "No Gas" for Elvis at the 6-26-1954 tryout.

I will, however, mention a little, tiny long shot notion about "No Gas." Sonny Burgess' second Sun single in early 1957 included a B-side he wrote with Jack Clement called "Ain't Got A Thing" which included the verse:

I got a car, ain't got no gas
I got a check, but it won't cash
I got a woman, ain't got no class
Nice connection Doc. If I recall the No Gas lyrics were about running out of gas and not being able to get to his girl. The Red Wortham angle bugs me though...let's say Red has these two songs he wants to pitch to Sam and maybe others. He gets Jimmy to record Without You. Jimmy wasn't an unknown entity in Nashville in 1954. You'd think Red would remember his name if Sam wanted to get in touch with the singer plus release the song he pitched. But that didn't happen. Peer Publishing has no trace of either song, but that may just mean that since neither song was ever cut, Red didn't bother to have them copyrighted etc. Or perhaps Red wasn't involved at all.


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by drjohncarpenter »

GuyLambert wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Well, that's very interesting indeed. So, it sounds like Red Wortham prepared for Sam Phillips a "quickie" demo package of a ballad and an uptempo number ... that sounds familiar:

Red Wortham Sample Demos - May 1954
"Without You" / "No Gas"

I won't even get into the idea of whether, for any reason, Philips played "No Gas" for Elvis at the 6-26-1954 tryout.

I will, however, mention a little, tiny long shot notion about "No Gas." Sonny Burgess' second Sun single in early 1957 included a B-side he wrote with Jack Clement called "Ain't Got A Thing" which included the verse:

I got a car, ain't got no gas
I got a check, but it won't cash
I got a woman, ain't got no class
Nice connection Doc. If I recall the No Gas lyrics were about running out of gas and not being able to get to his girl. The Red Wortham angle bugs me though...let's say Red has these two songs he wants to pitch to Sam and maybe others. He gets Jimmy to record Without You. Jimmy wasn't an unknown entity in Nashville in 1954. You'd think Red would remember his name if Sam wanted to get in touch with the singer plus release the song he pitched. But that didn't happen. Peer Publishing has no trace of either song, but that may just mean that since neither song was ever cut, Red didn't bother to have them copyrighted etc. Or perhaps Red wasn't involved at all.
All possible, and we cannot confirm it as all the primary individuals involved are gone now. Our only hope, perhaps, is if some kind of documentation can be found. Of course, I still hope that somehow Sam's recording of Elvis' trying out "Without You" still exists, somewhere.

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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by George Smith »

Guy ... do you have permission to reproduce the photograph of the B-Side here?



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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

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George Smith wrote:Guy ... do you have permission to reproduce the photograph of the B-Side here?
I will ask...


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

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GuyLambert wrote:
George Smith wrote:Guy ... do you have permission to reproduce the photograph of the B-Side here?
I will ask...
You're a gentleman, thank you.



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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

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GuyLambert wrote:
George Smith wrote:Guy ... do you have permission to reproduce the photograph of the B-Side here?
I will ask...
Here it is fellas...the writing on the flip side of Without You. The writing is very hard on its own to make out. But after hearing a clip of the song, where the lyrics keep repeating "No Gas," I'm assuming the writing on the label says "Gas."
Gas.JPG
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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by drjohncarpenter »

GuyLambert wrote:
GuyLambert wrote:
George Smith wrote:Guy ... do you have permission to reproduce the photograph of the B-Side here?
I will ask...
Here it is fellas...the writing on the flip side of Without You. The writing is very hard on its own to make out. But after hearing a clip of the song, where the lyrics keep repeating "No Gas," I'm assuming the writing on the label says "Gas."

Image
Fascinating, absolutely fascinating.

I agree we see the word "Gas" written in cursive, using what looks like a grease pencil.

Thank you so much for the research, the article, creating this topic, and sharing the images.

I'd love to see a release of both sides, just to hear these 1954 recordings.


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

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drjohncarpenter wrote:
GuyLambert wrote:
GuyLambert wrote:
George Smith wrote:Guy ... do you have permission to reproduce the photograph of the B-Side here?
I will ask...
Here it is fellas...the writing on the flip side of Without You. The writing is very hard on its own to make out. But after hearing a clip of the song, where the lyrics keep repeating "No Gas," I'm assuming the writing on the label says "Gas."

Image
Fascinating, absolutely fascinating.

I agree we see the word "Gas" written in cursive, using what looks like a grease pencil.

Thank you so much for the research, the article, creating this topic, and sharing the images.

I'd love to see a release of both sides, just to hear these 1954 recordings.
Thank you Doc, for the kind words. It is fascinating stuff. Hopefully the start of something cool.


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by drjohncarpenter »

GuyLambert wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Fascinating, absolutely fascinating.

I agree we see the word "Gas" written in cursive, using what looks like a grease pencil.

Thank you so much for the research, the article, creating this topic, and sharing the images.

I'd love to see a release of both sides, just to hear these 1954 recordings.
Thank you Doc, for the kind words. It is fascinating stuff. Hopefully the start of something cool.
Is there anything more you can share with us on this? I'm feeling greedy. ;-)


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by George Smith »

Wonderful, Guy, thank you!!

Is it a different handwriting style to the other side?



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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by George Smith »

mike edwards66 wrote:
George Smith wrote:Help me out on the lyrics. This is what I hear:

Always at twilight
I wish on a star
Ask God to keep you
Wherever you are
There’s time for XX
And time to regret
XX time to be lonely
Without you

Always at twilight
I wish on a star
Ask God to keep you
Wherever you are

I'll cherish the moments
We shared and yet
There’s time for keeping
And time to regret

It's time to be lonely
Without you
Thanks, Mike -- is this what you hear or do you know for sure these are the words?



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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

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George Smith wrote:
mike edwards66 wrote:
George Smith wrote:Help me out on the lyrics. This is what I hear:

Always at twilight
I wish on a star
Ask God to keep you
Wherever you are
There’s time for XX
And time to regret
XX time to be lonely
Without you

Always at twilight
I wish on a star
Ask God to keep you
Wherever you are

I'll cherish the moments
We shared and yet
There’s time for keeping
And time to regret

It's time to be lonely
Without you
Thanks, Mike -- is this what you hear or do you know for sure these are the words?
I 'm wondering if the last line could be "If I'm to be lonely" as "It's time to be lonely" sounds a bit light. Just trying to help out, as you requested, George. I'm pretty sure I hear "keeping", but that only makes sense if it's the second part of the verse, with the right lead in. So, "I'll cherish the moments, we shared and yet" is my suggestion of how that may be made to scan.


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by George Smith »

Thanks, Mike -- regardless of what I hear, "If I'm to be lonely" is a better line poetically.

I also hear "keeping" but wonder if it's "keening"?



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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by GuyLambert »

drjohncarpenter wrote:
GuyLambert wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Fascinating, absolutely fascinating.

I agree we see the word "Gas" written in cursive, using what looks like a grease pencil.

Thank you so much for the research, the article, creating this topic, and sharing the images.

I'd love to see a release of both sides, just to hear these 1954 recordings.
Thank you Doc, for the kind words. It is fascinating stuff. Hopefully the start of something cool.
Is there anything more you can share with us on this? I'm feeling greedy. ;-)
That would be telling... 8)


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by drjohncarpenter »

GuyLambert wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Is there anything more you can share with us on this? I'm feeling greedy. ;-)
That would be telling... 8)
No worries. Anything else you say here will go "in the vault."


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

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George Smith wrote:I also hear "keeping" but wonder if it's "keening"?
Keening? There's a word you don't hear in many songs!

Hang on a minute, George. I'll just get my dictionary.........................................give me a second..................................ah, got it. A wailing lament.

I doubt it. Because "keening" and "regret" would almost amount to a tautology (saying the same thing twice over in different words). If one is wailing and lamenting, it's pretty much a given, one is also regretting.


George Smith wrote:Thanks, Mike -- regardless of what I hear, "If I'm to be lonely" is a better line poetically.
Thanks, George. This is fun.


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

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Well, it seems to be starting...

Wikipedia for Elvis now reflects the discovery! And, a Jimmy Sweeney Wikipedia page was just created (and not by me!)

The words getting out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Sweeney

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

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GuyLambert wrote:Well, it seems to be starting...

Wikipedia for Elvis now reflects the discovery! And, a Jimmy Sweeney Wikipedia page was just created (and not by me!)

The words getting out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Sweeney

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley

Interesting. Someone reading FECC has a Wikipedia account by the name of BeckenhamBear.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jimmy_Sweeney&action=history
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Elvis_Presley&action=history

The Sweeney page is very nicely done!

Any further updates here?


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

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drjohncarpenter wrote:
GuyLambert wrote:Well, it seems to be starting...

Wikipedia for Elvis now reflects the discovery! And, a Jimmy Sweeney Wikipedia page was just created (and not by me!)

The words getting out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Sweeney

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley

Interesting. Someone reading FECC has a Wikipedia account by the name of BeckenhamBear.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jimmy_Sweeney&action=history
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Elvis_Presley&action=history

The Sweeney page is very nicely done!

Any further updates here?
I just received several interview cassette tapes and transcripts done in 2000 with Red Wortham. Beginning to check them out, hoping for a mention of Without You, Jimmy or some link.


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by drjohncarpenter »

GuyLambert wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Interesting. Someone reading FECC has a Wikipedia account by the name of BeckenhamBear.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jimmy_Sweeney&action=history
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Elvis_Presley&action=history

The Sweeney page is very nicely done!

Any further updates here?
I just received several interview cassette tapes and transcripts done in 2000 with Red Wortham. Beginning to check them out, hoping for a mention of Without You, Jimmy or some link.
I hope you'll share anything interesting you find with us here ...


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by TCBDan »

Been reading through this thread and it is a testament to the FECC Forum, the best in the world, no doubt.

Picked up my copy of MOJO yesterday. Couple it with the work you're all doing here and it makes for fascinating reading.


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by GuyLambert »

Mojo is out today in the US @ Barnes & Noble, etc.


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by drjohncarpenter »

GuyLambert on Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:23 am wrote:Mojo is out today in the US @ Barnes & Noble, etc.
Finally!!


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by GuyLambert »

Update: I thought we might get lucky here, but no cigar.

I found a copyright for an unpublished song from April 1954 called Without You. It was written by Carole Giordano and...wait for it...Larry Muhoberac.

What!? Yes, it IS the Larry Muhoberac we know (confirmed with family, he and Carole were eventually married). I had Copyright in DC pull the file and they read the lyrics to me over the phone. No match. That would've been a cool coincidence right?