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Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:24 pm

ELVIS: THE LAST MYSTERY Without You was the record Sam Phillips asked Elvis to emulate at his key audition, but who was its anonymous singer? Maybe now, finally, he can be named…

Hi Guys:

I have a feature article in the latest issue of Mojo Magazine about a recent discovery I made re the mystery singer of Without You.

Available Tuesday, Aug 22 in the UK and will hit the States in about a month. 8)

http://www.mojo4music.com/25650/mojo-287-dave-grohl-foo-fighters-nirvana/?platform=hootsuite

Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:07 pm

Thanks for info!

Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:17 pm

GuyLambert wrote:ELVIS: THE LAST MYSTERY Without You was the record Sam Phillips asked Elvis to emulate at his key audition, but who was its anonymous singer? Maybe now, finally, he can be named…

Hi Guys:

I have a feature article in the latest issue of Mojo Magazine about a recent discovery I made re the mystery singer of Without You.

Available Tuesday, Aug 22 in the UK and will hit the States in about a month. 8)

http://www.mojo4music.com/25650/mojo-287-dave-grohl-foo-fighters-nirvana/?platform=hootsuite



Cool! Can you share with us what you discovered? We won't tell anyone..

.

Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:38 pm

GuyLambert wrote:ELVIS: THE LAST MYSTERY Without You was the record Sam Phillips asked Elvis to emulate at his key audition, but who was its anonymous singer? Maybe now, finally, he can be named…

Hi Guys:

I have a feature article in the latest issue of Mojo Magazine about a recent discovery I made re the mystery singer of Without You.

Available Tuesday, Aug 22 in the UK and will hit the States in about a month. 8)

http://www.mojo4music.com/25650/mojo-287-dave-grohl-foo-fighters-nirvana/?platform=hootsuite



Well, what a nice surprise. I will have to seek out the new MOJO for your article alone!

From what I know, there are actually two stories about "Without You." Sam Phillips recalls he picked up the demo in a late May 1954 from Peer-Southern Music in Nashville. But authors Colin Escott and Martin Hawkins maintain Phillips got an unpublished recording from someone at Nashville State Penitentiary, when he cut tracks with the Prisonaires on May 8, 1954.*

* Colin Escott and Martin Hawkins, Good Rockin' Tonight: Sun Records and the Birth of Rock 'n' Roll (New York: St. Martin's Press, 1992).

Sadly, the full demo of "Without You" has never been issued, although a small segment was aired on the 1987 BBC-TV documentary "I Don't Sing Like Nobody." It pops up on the internet from time to time, and FECC member Keith has it on his site:

http://www.keithflynn.com/audio/withoutyouoriginal.MP3

There is still a glimmer of hope, however faint, that a reference acetate of Elvis trying "Without You" still exists. But we're now at the 63rd year of waiting, and nothing has surfaced. Maybe it's now half a glimmer.

-----

Found this in the comments of a YouTube video:

Marion Keisker:

No, it was just a demo of a record called, Without You. It was a single voice, apparently a black man playing a guitar and singing. So Sam immediately tried to contact the songwriter, whom I think was a woman in Nashville, and finally found her and said, “Who’s that artist, I want them to make that record, I want to release that record just as it is, I need to get another side and we’ll release it.” And this woman, whose name I don’t know, said that she didn’t know who the singer was. He had made the demo in a Nashville studio and they had called in somebody that sang this song, Without You.

Sam says, “Well, I give up. I sure wanted that.” And I said, “You know, that reminds me of the kid with the sideburns. I bet he could do that song.” And Sam said, “Oh I don’t even know his name, I don’t know how to get in touch with him.” I said, “I do!” and went under my blotter and pulled out the name and he says, “Well give him a call,” and I called him and said, “Mr. Phillips would like you to come over, he’d like to hear you, try you on a song.” I think I was still on the phone when Elvis came panting in with his guitar. He’d run all the way!

Sam didn’t like the way Elvis did Without You, and said he never recorded it. Sam says there never was such a record but I had a copy of it because I loved it so much that I made a copy! I have given it to a person who asked me not to identify him, because he doesn’t wish to be besieged by people. Obviously it’s a very valuable, one-of-a-kind record.

But it has been taped and included on the program they have been presenting at Memphis State. And every time it’s included in the medley of Elvis songs, people think that it is Elvis singing that song. Which is very strange because Sam rejected him as a possibility of doing that song. I said later, “This story has been taken out of context and used in many different ways, the only time it occurred was later when Elvis came back and listened to the song and he would beat his head and say, “Why can’t I do that, listen to that voice, listen to that tone!”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6wkwkp2PIE

Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:01 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
GuyLambert wrote:ELVIS: THE LAST MYSTERY Without You was the record Sam Phillips asked Elvis to emulate at his key audition, but who was its anonymous singer? Maybe now, finally, he can be named…

Hi Guys:

I have a feature article in the latest issue of Mojo Magazine about a recent discovery I made re the mystery singer of Without You.

Available Tuesday, Aug 22 in the UK and will hit the States in about a month. 8)

http://www.mojo4music.com/25650/mojo-287-dave-grohl-foo-fighters-nirvana/?platform=hootsuite



Well, what a nice surprise. I will have to seek out the new MOJO for your article alone!

From what I know, there are actually two stories about "Without You." Sam Phillips recalls he picked up the demo in a late May 1954 from Peer-Southern Music in Nashville. But authors Colin Escott and Martin Hawkins maintain Phillips got an unpublished recording from someone at Nashville State Penitentiary, when he cut tracks with the Prisonaires on May 8, 1954.*

* Colin Escott and Martin Hawkins, Good Rockin' Tonight: Sun Records and the Birth of Rock 'n' Roll (New York: St. Martin's Press, 1992).

Sadly, the full demo of "Without You" has never been issued, although a small segment was aired on the 1987 BBC-TV documentary "I Don't Sing Like Nobody." It pops up on the internet from time to time, and FECC member Keith has it on his site:

http://www.keithflynn.com/audio/withoutyouoriginal.MP3

There is still a glimmer of hope, however faint, that a reference acetate of Elvis trying "Without You" still exists. But we're now at the 63rd year of waiting, and nothing has surfaced. Maybe it's now half a glimmer.

-----

Found this in the comments of a YouTube video:

Marion Keisker:

No, it was just a demo of a record called, Without You. It was a single voice, apparently a black man playing a guitar and singing. So Sam immediately tried to contact the songwriter, whom I think was a woman in Nashville, and finally found her and said, “Who’s that artist, I want them to make that record, I want to release that record just as it is, I need to get another side and we’ll release it.” And this woman, whose name I don’t know, said that she didn’t know who the singer was. He had made the demo in a Nashville studio and they had called in somebody that sang this song, Without You.

Sam says, “Well, I give up. I sure wanted that.” And I said, “You know, that reminds me of the kid with the sideburns. I bet he could do that song.” And Sam said, “Oh I don’t even know his name, I don’t know how to get in touch with him.” I said, “I do!” and went under my blotter and pulled out the name and he says, “Well give him a call,” and I called him and said, “Mr. Phillips would like you to come over, he’d like to hear you, try you on a song.” I think I was still on the phone when Elvis came panting in with his guitar. He’d run all the way!

Sam didn’t like the way Elvis did Without You, and said he never recorded it. Sam says there never was such a record but I had a copy of it because I loved it so much that I made a copy! I have given it to a person who asked me not to identify him, because he doesn’t wish to be besieged by people. Obviously it’s a very valuable, one-of-a-kind record.

But it has been taped and included on the program they have been presenting at Memphis State. And every time it’s included in the medley of Elvis songs, people think that it is Elvis singing that song. Which is very strange because Sam rejected him as a possibility of doing that song. I said later, “This story has been taken out of context and used in many different ways, the only time it occurred was later when Elvis came back and listened to the song and he would beat his head and say, “Why can’t I do that, listen to that voice, listen to that tone!”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6wkwkp2PIE


Hi Doc, I look forward to you reading it and hearing your thoughts. I couldn't believe it when I put two and two together.

Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:13 pm

.

Came across this on Wikipedia:

image.jpeg


A Paul Lichter fantasy I guess?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... _Sun_label

.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:46 pm

I am reliably informed the complete demo song still exists and was available when it was discussed and considered for use on the Sun box set.

Gaining permission to use from our source of the audio, who was very sick at the time was an issue and whether fans would accept it on an Elvis release being a non Elvis track.

It was shortlisted for inclusion.

Kevan Budd.
Last edited by kevanbudd on Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:12 am, edited 11 times in total.

Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:51 pm

This will be a wonderful addition to the story of the young Elvis.

Bravo, Guy -- I look forward to the revelation.

Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:08 pm

MikeFromHolland wrote:Came across this on Wikipedia:

Image

A Paul Lichter fantasy I guess?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_songs_recorded_by_Elvis_Presley_on_the_Sun_label



The citation does not tell us which Lichter book the statement is taken from, but it must be from one of his books because the date of the call is incorrect. Marion contacted Elvis on 6-26-1954 (Sat) to come down to the studio and try out the song with Sam.

The archived disc has been mentioned in many previous books, such as Greil Marcus' Mystery Train. He noted it being played at MSU in 1979, for a gathered audience.



kevanbudd wrote:I am reliably informed the complete demo song still exists, it was discussed and considered for use on the Sun box set.

Gaining permission to use was a possible issue and whether fans would accept it on an Elvis release being a non Elvis track.

Kevan Budd.



The Marion Keisker interview posted above indicates she saved a full copy, and it may have been the one donated to MSU. My understanding about the demo is that the main issue was fans not wanting a non-Elvis cut on the 2012 collection.

My feeling was that it would have been an essential addition.

Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:15 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:My feeling was that it would have been an essential addition.



100%, John (and thanks for the nod).

Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:18 pm

George Smith wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:My feeling was that it would have been an essential addition.



100%, John (and thanks for the nod).



This?

http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=97574&p=1606678#p1606678

Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:28 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
George Smith wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:My feeling was that it would have been an essential addition.



100%, John (and thanks for the nod).



This?

http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=97574&p=1606678#p1606678


Among other things, yes.

Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:48 pm

kevanbudd wrote:I am reliably informed the complete demo song still exists and was available when it was discussed and considered for use on the Sun box set.

Gaining permission to use from the owner who was very sick at the time was an issue and whether fans would accept it on an Elvis release being a non Elvis track.

It was shortlisted for inclusion.

Kevan Budd.
Hi Kevin: Thanks for the reply. The demo of Without You exists and is in great hands. The owner has not mentioned to me being contacted by anyone re inclusion on the Sun set and I'm pretty certain the "very sick" issue wasn't an issue. I'll ask.

Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:52 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
MikeFromHolland wrote:Came across this on Wikipedia:

Image

A Paul Lichter fantasy I guess?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_songs_recorded_by_Elvis_Presley_on_the_Sun_label



The citation does not tell us which Lichter book the statement is taken from, but it must be from one of his books because the date of the call is incorrect. Marion contacted Elvis on 6-26-1954 (Sat) to come down to the studio and try out the song with Sam.

The archived disc has been mentioned in many previous books, such as Greil Marcus' Mystery Train. He noted it being played at MSU in 1979, for a gathered audience.



kevanbudd wrote:I am reliably informed the complete demo song still exists, it was discussed and considered for use on the Sun box set.

Gaining permission to use was a possible issue and whether fans would accept it on an Elvis release being a non Elvis track.

Kevan Budd.



The Marion Keisker interview posted above indicates she saved a full copy, and it may have been the one donated to MSU. My understanding about the demo is that the main issue was fans not wanting a non-Elvis cut on the 2012 collection.

My feeling was that it would have been an essential addition.
Doc, you made me nervous re the date, I had to check what I wrote. Luckily I got it right, June. I will say that I'm thrilled that Greil Marcus agreed with my findings and was instrumental in getting this piece published in Mojo.

Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:57 pm

GuyLambert wrote:
kevanbudd wrote:I am reliably informed the complete demo song still exists and was available when it was discussed and considered for use on the Sun box set.

Gaining permission to use from the owner who was very sick at the time was an issue and whether fans would accept it on an Elvis release being a non Elvis track.

It was shortlisted for inclusion.

Kevan Budd.
Hi Kevin: Thanks for the reply. The demo of Without You exists and is in great hands. The owner has not mentioned to me being contacted by anyone re inclusion on the Sun set and I'm pretty certain the "very sick" issue wasn't an issue. I'll ask.


Hi Guy,

I was informed it was a Phillips family member who was seriously ill which is where the audio copy being considered for release came from, he was not contacted at the time as it may have been considered insensitive..

Kevan Budd.
Last edited by kevanbudd on Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:58 pm

GuyLambert wrote: Doc, you made me nervous re the date, I had to check what I wrote. Luckily I got it right, June. I will say that I'm thrilled that Greil Marcus agreed with my findings and was instrumental in getting this piece published in Mojo.



Excellent. Stick with the wisdom of FECC, you can't go wrong. ;-)

Care to share how Marcus helped you out?

Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:03 pm

kevanbudd wrote:
GuyLambert wrote:Hi Kevin: Thanks for the reply. The demo of Without You exists and is in great hands. The owner has not mentioned to me being contacted by anyone re inclusion on the Sun set and I'm pretty certain the "very sick" issue wasn't an issue. I'll ask.


Hi Guy,

I was informed it was a Phillips family member who was dying which is where the audio copy being considered for release came from, he was not contacted at the time as it may have been considered insensitive..

The info came direct from Ernst.

Kevan Budd.



It's possible we have two sources for the "Without You" demo then. The original in the possession of the Sam Phillips family, and the copy that resides at MSU. The family member must Sam's wife, Becky, died on September 13, 2012 at the age of eighty-seven.

Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:16 pm

kevanbudd wrote:
GuyLambert wrote:
kevanbudd wrote:I am reliably informed the complete demo song still exists and was available when it was discussed and considered for use on the Sun box set.

Gaining permission to use from the owner who was very sick at the time was an issue and whether fans would accept it on an Elvis release being a non Elvis track.

It was shortlisted for inclusion.

Kevan Budd.
Hi Kevin: Thanks for the reply. The demo of Without You exists and is in great hands. The owner has not mentioned to me being contacted by anyone re inclusion on the Sun set and I'm pretty certain the "very sick" issue wasn't an issue. I'll ask.


Hi Guy,

I was informed it was a Phillips family member who was dying which is where the audio copy being considered for release came from, he was not contacted at the time as it may have been considered insensitive..

The info came direct from Ernst.

Kevan Budd.

Hi Kevin: Just realized you're who you are. Thank you for all the great work you've done, I'm a long time fan. Re the Phillips family, I understand how the connection with the demo was made.

Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:19 pm

GuyLambert wrote:
kevanbudd wrote:
GuyLambert wrote:
kevanbudd wrote:I am reliably informed the complete demo song still exists and was available when it was discussed and considered for use on the Sun box set.

Gaining permission to use from the owner who was very sick at the time was an issue and whether fans would accept it on an Elvis release being a non Elvis track.

It was shortlisted for inclusion.

Kevan Budd.
Hi Kevin: Thanks for the reply. The demo of Without You exists and is in great hands. The owner has not mentioned to me being contacted by anyone re inclusion on the Sun set and I'm pretty certain the "very sick" issue wasn't an issue. I'll ask.


Hi Guy,

I was informed it was a Phillips family member who was dying which is where the audio copy being considered for release came from, he was not contacted at the time as it may have been considered insensitive..

The info came direct from Ernst.

Kevan Budd.

Hi Kevin: Just realized you're who you are. Thank you for all the great work you've done, I'm a long time fan. Re the Phillips family, I understand how the connection with the demo was made.


Hi Guy,

Thank you for your kind words, I greatly look forward to reading your article.

Kevan Budd.

Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:25 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
GuyLambert wrote: Doc, you made me nervous re the date, I had to check what I wrote. Luckily I got it right, June. I will say that I'm thrilled that Greil Marcus agreed with my findings and was instrumental in getting this piece published in Mojo.



Excellent. Stick with the wisdom of FECC, you can't go wrong. ;-)

Care to share how Marcus helped you out?


Doc, when I made the discovery of who the mystery singer was, I contacted Greil to get his thoughts, because I grew up on that beautiful paragraph out of his book Mystery Train regarding Without You. When he agreed with my findings, I thought it would be awesome if he was the one who wrote about the discovery, it would carry more weight than if I tried to get it published. He graciously encouraged it was my discovery, and I should be the one to reveal it. He helped with editing and we both agreed Mojo would be an excellent place for the article. Greil put me in touch with Mojo's editor who loved the story and agreed to publish it.

Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:30 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
kevanbudd wrote:
GuyLambert wrote:Hi Kevin: Thanks for the reply. The demo of Without You exists and is in great hands. The owner has not mentioned to me being contacted by anyone re inclusion on the Sun set and I'm pretty certain the "very sick" issue wasn't an issue. I'll ask.


Hi Guy,

I was informed it was a Phillips family member who was dying which is where the audio copy being considered for release came from, he was not contacted at the time as it may have been considered insensitive..

The info came direct from Ernst.

Kevan Budd.



It's possible we have two sources for the "Without You" demo then. The original in the possession of the Sam Phillips family, and the copy that resides at MSU. The family member must Sam's wife, Becky, died on September 13, 2012 at the age of eighty-seven.


Hi Doc: 99% sure (you never know) that there's only the one copy of the demo, which Marion took with her when she left Sun in 1957.

Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:12 am

GuyLambert wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Excellent. Stick with the wisdom of FECC, you can't go wrong. ;-)

Care to share how Marcus helped you out?


Doc, when I made the discovery of who the mystery singer was, I contacted Greil to get his thoughts, because I grew up on that beautiful paragraph out of his book Mystery Train regarding Without You. When he agreed with my findings, I thought it would be awesome if he was the one who wrote about the discovery, it would carry more weight than if I tried to get it published. He graciously encouraged it was my discovery, and I should be the one to reveal it. He helped with editing and we both agreed Mojo would be an excellent place for the article. Greil put me in touch with Mojo's editor who loved the story and agreed to publish it.



Very cool! Some here tend to denigrate Greil Marcus whenever I bring him up, but from my view he's been an important voice on Elvis and his stunning music for over 40 years.



GuyLambert wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:It's possible we have two sources for the "Without You" demo then. The original in the possession of the Sam Phillips family, and the copy that resides at MSU. The family member must Sam's wife, Becky, died on September 13, 2012 at the age of eighty-seven.


Hi Doc: 99% sure (you never know) that there's only the one copy of the demo, which Marion took with her when she left Sun in 1957.



That was my assumption, but thought the additional topic input implied otherwise. For me, Marion Keisker is a huge, huge key to understanding and appreciating the Presley Sun years. As Elvis put it, nothing would have ever happened had it not been for her.

Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:37 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:Stick with the wisdom of FECC, you can't go wrong. ;-)


If he'd done that he would never have discovered what he discovered :wink:


Fantastic thread this! :smt023
.

Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:08 pm

GuyLambert wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
It's possible we have two sources for the "Without You" demo then. The original in the possession of the Sam Phillips family, and the copy that resides at MSU. The family member must Sam's wife, Becky, died on September 13, 2012 at the age of eighty-seven.


Hi Doc: 99% sure (you never know) that there's only the one copy of the demo, which Marion took with her when she left Sun in 1957.


Ok, so 99% sure the MSU tale is a fantasy after all.

::rocks

.

Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:56 pm

MikeFromHolland wrote:
GuyLambert wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
It's possible we have two sources for the "Without You" demo then. The original in the possession of the Sam Phillips family, and the copy that resides at MSU. The family member must Sam's wife, Becky, died on September 13, 2012 at the age of eighty-seven.


Hi Doc: 99% sure (you never know) that there's only the one copy of the demo, which Marion took with her when she left Sun in 1957.


Ok, so 99% sure the MSU tale is a fantasy after all.

::rocks

.

The University of Memphis does play into the story. :wink: