1975 - 1976 reissues, not on Keith' Discography

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1975 - 1976 reissues, not on Keith' Discography

#1558855

Post by ForeverElvis »

I was wondering why, on Keith's Discography, these reissues were missing when many others are there?
thank you
Double Dynamite LP.jpg
5001-back.jpg
DOUBLE DYNAMITE (LP)
(US) Pickwick DL2 5001
Released: December 1975
Side 1
Burning Love
I'll Be There
Fools Fall In Love
Follow That Dream
You'll Never Walk Alone
Side 2
Flaming Star
Yellow Rose Of Texas / Eyes Of Texas
Old Shep
Mama
Side 3
Rubberneckin'
U.S. Male
Frankie And Johnny
If You Think I Don't Need You
Easy Come, Easy Go
Side 4
Separate Ways
Peace In The Valley
Big Boss Man
It's A Matter Of Time
Frankie and Johnny Pickwick LP.jpg
acl7007-back.jpg
FRANKIE AND JOHNNY (LP)
(US) Pickwick ACL 7007
Released: November 1976
Side 1
Frankie And Johnny
Come Along
What Every Woman Lives For
Hard Luck
Please Don't Stop Loving Me
Side 2
Down By The Riverside / When The Saints Go Marching In
Petunia, The Gardener's Daughter
Beginner's Luck
Shout It Out

The following three tracks issued on the original album were deleted from this re-issue.
Look Out, Broadway
Everybody Come Aboard
Chesay
His Hand In Mine 2 LP.jpg
anl1319-back.jpg
HIS HAND IN MINE (LP)
(US) RCA ANL1 1319
Released: March 1976

Same tracklist as 1960 release.
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Re: 1975 - 1976 reissues, not on Keith' Discography

#1558874

Post by joshferrell »

with the exception of "His hand in mine" are any of these albums even WORTH mentioning?


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Re: 1975 - 1976 reissues, not on Keith' Discography

#1558976

Post by ForeverElvis »

joshferrell wrote:with the exception of "His hand in mine" are any of these albums even WORTH mentioning?
all 3 were pointless releases at the time, just money grabs but they are still a part of his discography.
for years you couldn't get the original HHIM cover on vinyl, cassette, 8-track, CD reissues only this 1976 cover.

hopefully Keith can say why they were omitted from his discography.


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Re: 1975 - 1976 reissues, not on Keith' Discography

#1559002

Post by colonel snow »

The discography on the site of Keith Flynn is not meant to be a complete list with all releases. It's a guide for information about essential releases.
If you take a look into the discography you'll notice that releases from outside US are included if they contain rare tracks like LP Elvis for ever vol. 2 from Germany (may 1980) and many more. Re-releases on Pickwick label etc are not included.


colonel snow




poormadpeter2

Re: 1975 - 1976 reissues, not on Keith' Discography

#1559009

Post by poormadpeter2 »

ForeverElvis wrote:
joshferrell wrote:with the exception of "His hand in mine" are any of these albums even WORTH mentioning?
all 3 were pointless releases at the time, just money grabs but they are still a part of his discography.
for years you couldn't get the original HHIM cover on vinyl, cassette, 8-track, CD reissues only this 1976 cover.

hopefully Keith can say why they were omitted from his discography.
To my knowledge, Double Dynamite was the only release of Fools Fall in Love between the single release and Essential 60s boxed set in the 1990s. And, considering the price, this was a way of getting fine tracks such as Big Boss Man, Guitar Man, Burning Love, I'll Be There, Flaming Star, U.S. Male, Rubberneckin', Separate Ways, Fools Fall in Love, You'll Never Walk Alone and It's a Matter of Time on LP with far less tacky movie tracks than if you had bought the original Camdens on which they first appealed on LP.

If I was around then and had pocket money, I'd say that those eleven tracks (plus the other seven as a "bonus" - and even they include Follow That Dream, Old Shep, and If You Think I Don't Need You) would be a nice way to spend it.



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Re: 1975 - 1976 reissues, not on Keith' Discography

#1559011

Post by ForeverElvis »

colonel snow wrote:The discography on the site of Keith Flynn is not meant to be a complete list with all releases. It's a guide for information about essential releases.
If you take a look into the discography you'll notice that releases from outside US are included if they contain rare tracks like LP Elvis for ever vol. 2 from Germany (may 1980) and many more. Re-releases on Pickwick label etc are not included.


colonel snow
what makes them different i suppose is that Double Dynamite was the only release prior to August 1977 on Pickwick that hadn't originated on Camden. The Frankie and Johnny release, besides the cover change, omits tracks from the Original 1966 LP making it a different release. His Hand n Mine only had the cover change, but as previously stated, that prevented the original cover in reissue circulation.

Other cover variants are shown (Tuscon vs Tucson) and Camden original releases are shown.

i don't know the criteria Keith has used for the official discography that may omit these - that is what i'd like to know.


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Re: 1975 - 1976 reissues, not on Keith' Discography

#1559018

Post by colonel snow »

poormadpeter2 wrote:
ForeverElvis wrote:
joshferrell wrote:with the exception of "His hand in mine" are any of these albums even WORTH mentioning?
all 3 were pointless releases at the time, just money grabs but they are still a part of his discography.
for years you couldn't get the original HHIM cover on vinyl, cassette, 8-track, CD reissues only this 1976 cover.

hopefully Keith can say why they were omitted from his discography.
To my knowledge, Double Dynamite was the only release of Fools Fall in Love between the single release and Essential 60s boxed set in the 1990s. And, considering the price, this was a way of getting fine tracks such as Big Boss Man, Guitar Man, Burning Love, I'll Be There, Flaming Star, U.S. Male, Rubberneckin', Separate Ways, Fools Fall in Love, You'll Never Walk Alone and It's a Matter of Time on LP with far less tacky movie tracks than if you had bought the original Camdens on which they first appealed on LP.

If I was around then and had pocket money, I'd say that those eleven tracks (plus the other seven as a "bonus" - and even they include Follow That Dream, Old Shep, and If You Think I Don't Need You) would be a nice way to spend it.


Fools fall in love - single was released in 1971 on LP I got lucky.

Other singles - not released on LP in the 70's like Come what may - Where did they go Lord - Rags to riches - were released in 1977 on Japanese LP "Singles" and finally in 1980 on the 8 LP box Elvis Aron Presley. This Japanese LP was also not included in the discography. Due to space you can't add all releases; you have to make a choice when you built up the discography a few years ago.

colonel snow


colonel snow




skatterbrane

Re: 1975 - 1976 reissues, not on Keith' Discography

#1559028

Post by skatterbrane »

Fools Fall In Love first LP appearance was on Camden I Got Lucky. The Double Dynamite LP set were all recycled Camden tracks.




skatterbrane

Re: 1975 - 1976 reissues, not on Keith' Discography

#1559031

Post by skatterbrane »

Yeah and somehow RCA managed to omit Come What May on the EAP box set, and the Jailhouse Rock version of Don't Leave Me Now was an orphan for even longer.




poormadpeter2

Re: 1975 - 1976 reissues, not on Keith' Discography

#1559037

Post by poormadpeter2 »

colonel snow wrote:
poormadpeter2 wrote:
ForeverElvis wrote:
joshferrell wrote:with the exception of "His hand in mine" are any of these albums even WORTH mentioning?
all 3 were pointless releases at the time, just money grabs but they are still a part of his discography.
for years you couldn't get the original HHIM cover on vinyl, cassette, 8-track, CD reissues only this 1976 cover.

hopefully Keith can say why they were omitted from his discography.
To my knowledge, Double Dynamite was the only release of Fools Fall in Love between the single release and Essential 60s boxed set in the 1990s. And, considering the price, this was a way of getting fine tracks such as Big Boss Man, Guitar Man, Burning Love, I'll Be There, Flaming Star, U.S. Male, Rubberneckin', Separate Ways, Fools Fall in Love, You'll Never Walk Alone and It's a Matter of Time on LP with far less tacky movie tracks than if you had bought the original Camdens on which they first appealed on LP.

If I was around then and had pocket money, I'd say that those eleven tracks (plus the other seven as a "bonus" - and even they include Follow That Dream, Old Shep, and If You Think I Don't Need You) would be a nice way to spend it.


Fools fall in love - single was released in 1971 on LP I got lucky.

Other singles - not released on LP in the 70's like Come what may - Where did they go Lord - Rags to riches - were released in 1977 on Japanese LP "Singles" and finally in 1980 on the 8 LP box Elvis Aron Presley. This Japanese LP was also not included in the discography. Due to space you can't add all releases; you have to make a choice when you built up the discography a few years ago.

colonel snow


colonel snow
Thanks. I missed that it was on I Got Lucky.



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Re: 1975 - 1976 reissues, not on Keith' Discography

#1559132

Post by Keith »

ForeverElvis wrote:I was wondering why, on Keith's Discography, these reissues were missing when many others are there?
thank you
In general, only original issues are listed in the discography, except where they have been issued in a different format (i.e. CD instead of vinyl) or where newer or better quality masters have been used instead.

The releases you show only contain the same material issued on other earlier releases, already listed in the discography.

I hope this makes sense.

Keith



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Re: 1975 - 1976 reissues, not on Keith' Discography

#1559279

Post by ForeverElvis »

Keith wrote:
ForeverElvis wrote:I was wondering why, on Keith's Discography, these reissues were missing when many others are there?
thank you
In general, only original issues are listed in the discography, except where they have been issued in a different format (i.e. CD instead of vinyl) or where newer or better quality masters have been used instead.

The releases you show only contain the same material issued on other earlier releases, already listed in the discography.

I hope this makes sense.

Keith
Yes, thanks Keith.
can a case be made to add " double dynamite" because you have entries for the "electronically reprocessed stereo" LP's? In essence you have these titles twice?

If i could make a suggestion for "Frankie and Johnny" can a note be put under the 1966 entry for this LP along the lines of "(*This LP was reissued on the Pickwick label in 1976 with a different cover and minus three tracks; "Chesay", "Look Out, Broadway", and "Everybody Come Aboard" )

what do you think?


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Re: 1975 - 1976 reissues, not on Keith' Discography

#1559336

Post by colonel snow »

ForeverElvis wrote:
Keith wrote:
ForeverElvis wrote:I was wondering why, on Keith's Discography, these reissues were missing when many others are there?
thank you
In general, only original issues are listed in the discography, except where they have been issued in a different format (i.e. CD instead of vinyl) or where newer or better quality masters have been used instead.

The releases you show only contain the same material issued on other earlier releases, already listed in the discography.

I hope this makes sense.

Keith
Yes, thanks Keith.
can a case be made to add " double dynamite" because you have entries for the "electronically reprocessed stereo" LP's? In essence you have these titles twice?

If i could make a suggestion for "Frankie and Johnny" can a note be put under the 1966 entry for this LP along the lines of "(*This LP was reissued on the Pickwick label in 1976 with a different cover and minus three tracks; "Chesay", "Look Out, Broadway", and "Everybody Come Aboard" )

what do you think?

To keep the discography clear you can't put notes every time under an entry when another LP is released; besides electronically reprocessed stereo LP's were essential in the beginning of 60's. The first CD's were taken from the masters of that kind of LP's. Terrible sound!!
If you want to know more about a certain LP try the site of Discogs.com

colonel snow



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Re: 1975 - 1976 reissues, not on Keith' Discography

#1559772

Post by ForeverElvis »

colonel snow wrote:
ForeverElvis wrote:
Keith wrote:
ForeverElvis wrote:I was wondering why, on Keith's Discography, these reissues were missing when many others are there?
thank you
In general, only original issues are listed in the discography, except where they have been issued in a different format (i.e. CD instead of vinyl) or where newer or better quality masters have been used instead.

The releases you show only contain the same material issued on other earlier releases, already listed in the discography.

I hope this makes sense.

Keith
Yes, thanks Keith.
can a case be made to add " double dynamite" because you have entries for the "electronically reprocessed stereo" LP's? In essence you have these titles twice?

If i could make a suggestion for "Frankie and Johnny" can a note be put under the 1966 entry for this LP along the lines of "(*This LP was reissued on the Pickwick label in 1976 with a different cover and minus three tracks; "Chesay", "Look Out, Broadway", and "Everybody Come Aboard" )

what do you think?

To keep the discography clear you can't put notes every time under an entry when another LP is released; besides electronically reprocessed stereo LP's were essential in the beginning of 60's. The first CD's were taken from the masters of that kind of LP's. Terrible sound!!
If you want to know more about a certain LP try the site of Discogs.com

colonel snow
Sorry I may not have explained accurately. dropping the three tracks on F&J makes it a different release, not just a reissue of the 1966 LP.

It was also the only source for this atrocious soundtrack after the 1966 LP was discontinued until F&Js lone 2009 CD release.

If we cant accept this as a different release then we have to ask why is the Camden Christmas LP listed, it lost four tracks from the original and added two. Double Dynamite was also a new title to his discography. If we say all the tracks were released before, then doesnt the Elvis in Person LSP4428 and Back in Memphis LSP4429 releases split off from the double LP From Memphis To Vegas/From Vegas To Memphis LSP6020 not belong on the list.

for the record i think all of the LPs Ive listed belong listed.

Thanks Keith, for all your hard work.


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Re: 1975 - 1976 reissues, not on Keith' Discography

#1559933

Post by poormadpeter2 »

ForeverElvis wrote:
It was also the only source for this atrocious soundtrack after the 1966 LP was discontinued until F&Js lone 2009 CD release.
That is incorrect, for it was available as part of the double features series.



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Re: 1975 - 1976 reissues, not on Keith' Discography

#1559976

Post by ForeverElvis »

poormadpeter2 wrote:
ForeverElvis wrote:
It was also the only source for this atrocious soundtrack after the 1966 LP was discontinued until F&Js lone 2009 CD release.
That is incorrect, for it was available as part of the double features series.
that's true. my intention was to mean as a stand-alone release.
I should have been clearer - apologies.

I'm still of the opinion that these should be on the discography.


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Re: 1975 - 1976 reissues, not on Keith' Discography

#1560019

Post by colonel snow »

ForeverElvis wrote:
poormadpeter2 wrote:
ForeverElvis wrote:
It was also the only source for this atrocious soundtrack after the 1966 LP was discontinued until F&Js lone 2009 CD release.
That is incorrect, for it was available as part of the double features series.
that's true. my intention was to mean as a stand-alone release.
I should have been clearer - apologies.

I'm still of the opinion that these should be on the discography.
It's the publishers (Keith Flynn) decision to make a choice which releases to include or not; if you're not satisfied with the discograpy try to make one of your own. As I stated in a previous post it's not meant to be complete but it's a guide of information for essential releases.


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Re: 1975 - 1976 reissues, not on Keith' Discography

#1560066

Post by ForeverElvis »

Just asking a question as to why some titles are included as opposed to others and offering an opinion with a supportive argument.

That doesn't mean I'm dissatisfied with Keith's excellent job.

I thought I've raised some valid points, I'm sure if Keith wants to further comment he will.

But please don't jump in and tell me what I should do. instead why not offer your opinion as to why you might think Elvis' Christmas Album on Camden (with the track deletions) is listed but the Frankie and Johnny Pickwick (with the track deletions) is not.

Have a good day



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Re: 1975 - 1976 reissues, not on Keith' Discography

#1560071

Post by Keith »

It isn't just me who doesn't list the two releases you mention, ForeverElvis, they aren't mentionned by Ernst in his discography in A Life In Music and they aren't mentionned in the discography in the book that comes with The Complete Elvis Presley Masters, but why would they be listed? They aren't original releases!

Thanks for the suggestion to add these two releases to my discography, but I won't bother.

Keith



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Re: 1975 - 1976 reissues, not on Keith' Discography

#1560173

Post by ForeverElvis »

Keith wrote:It isn't just me who doesn't list the two releases you mention, ForeverElvis, they aren't mentionned by Ernst in his discography in A Life In Music and they aren't mentionned in the discography in the book that comes with The Complete Elvis Presley Masters, but why would they be listed? They aren't original releases!

Thanks for the suggestion to add these two releases to my discography, but I won't bother.

Keith
Thanks Keith.
Would I be correct in thinking that Elvis' Christmas Album (Camden) is listed because of the two added tracks that hadn't been on LP before; "If Everyday Was Like Christmas" and "Mama Liked The Roses" which make the LP an original release. If it were simply re-released minus the four gospel tracks it wouldn't be listed, like Frankie and Johnny (Pickwick) and its three track deletions.

The first discography I ever had was Paul Lichter's "The Boy Who Dared To Rock" in 1978 - all three releases I've mentioned were listed in that book - which has been eclipsed by your site and "A Life In Music" by Ernst Jorgensen.

Have a great weekend,


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Re: 1975 - 1976 reissues, not on Keith' Discography

#1560195

Post by Keith »

ForeverElvis wrote:
Keith wrote:It isn't just me who doesn't list the two releases you mention, ForeverElvis, they aren't mentionned by Ernst in his discography in A Life In Music and they aren't mentionned in the discography in the book that comes with The Complete Elvis Presley Masters, but why would they be listed? They aren't original releases!

Thanks for the suggestion to add these two releases to my discography, but I won't bother.

Keith
Thanks Keith.
Would I be correct in thinking that Elvis' Christmas Album (Camden) is listed because of the two added tracks that hadn't been on LP before; "If Everyday Was Like Christmas" and "Mama Liked The Roses" which make the LP an original release. If it were simply re-released minus the four gospel tracks it wouldn't be listed, like Frankie and Johnny (Pickwick) and its three track deletions.
Another reason the Christmas album is listed, along with the other Camden releases, is because it was an official (RCA subsidiary - Camden) release and a listing notice was issued for it by RCA.

With the two releases you mention there were no RCA listing notices issued as they weren't RCA (or Camden) releases.

Pickwick wasn't an RCA label. It was a US record label known for its budget album releases and bargain bin reissues containing repackaged, licensed tracks, mainly in Elvis' case, from Camden albums.

Again, I hope this makes sense to you as to why certain releases are not listed in the discography, but others are.

Keith



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Re: 1975 - 1976 reissues, not on Keith' Discography

#1560500

Post by ForeverElvis »

Keith wrote:
ForeverElvis wrote:
Keith wrote:It isn't just me who doesn't list the two releases you mention, ForeverElvis, they aren't mentionned by Ernst in his discography in A Life In Music and they aren't mentionned in the discography in the book that comes with The Complete Elvis Presley Masters, but why would they be listed? They aren't original releases!

Thanks for the suggestion to add these two releases to my discography, but I won't bother.

Keith
Thanks Keith.
Would I be correct in thinking that Elvis' Christmas Album (Camden) is listed because of the two added tracks that hadn't been on LP before; "If Everyday Was Like Christmas" and "Mama Liked The Roses" which make the LP an original release. If it were simply re-released minus the four gospel tracks it wouldn't be listed, like Frankie and Johnny (Pickwick) and its three track deletions.
Another reason the Christmas album is listed, along with the other Camden releases, is because it was an official (RCA subsidiary - Camden) release and a listing notice was issued for it by RCA.

With the two releases you mention there were no RCA listing notices issued as they weren't RCA (or Camden) releases.

Pickwick wasn't an RCA label. It was a US record label known for its budget album releases and bargain bin reissues containing repackaged, licensed tracks, mainly in Elvis' case, from Camden albums.

Again, I hope this makes sense to you as to why certain releases are not listed in the discography, but others are.

Keith
thank you again, i didn't know Pickwick wasn't a subsidiary of RCA, I was aware Camden was.
The listing notice being absent makes perfect sense. it can get confusing, as "Mahalo From Elvis" was released in 1978 on Pickwick but had a listing notice from RCA on the discography.


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Re: 1975 - 1976 reissues, not on Keith' Discography

#1560504

Post by colonel snow »

The LP "Mahalo from Elvis" was originally planned for release in november 1973 on the Camden label (ACL1 - 0218) but cancelled.

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Re: 1975 - 1976 reissues, not on Keith' Discography

#1560538

Post by ForeverElvis »

colonel snow wrote:The LP "Mahalo from Elvis" was originally planned for release in november 1973 on the Camden label (ACL1 - 0218) but cancelled.

colonel snow
Yes, correct. That was to be a Camden release from RCA.
the 1978 release was Pickwick.

Some background on Pickwick from Wikipedia:

Pickwick Records was an American record label and British distributor known for its budget album releases of sound-alike recordings, bargain bin reissues and repackagings under the brands Design, Bravo (later changing their name to International Award), Hurrah, Grand Prix, and children's records on the Cricket and Happy Time labels.[1]

The label is also known for distributing music by smaller labels like Sonny Lester's Groove Mechant, Gene Redd's De-Lite Records, Chart Records and the Swedish label Sonet Records (for which it distributed late-1960s recordings by Bill Haley & His Comets in Canada and the US). They also issued records from Britain's Hallmark Records label.

Pickwick Records (originally formed as Pickwick Sales Corporation, later Pickwick International) was founded in 1950 by Cy Leslie, whose first business was a prerecorded greeting card service that in 1946 turned into Voco Records, a label of children's records. In 1957, after successfully marketing their Cricket children's label of 78 and 45rpm records, Pickwick entered the LP market with low-priced records, beginning with their Design label.[2] The albums from the 1960s into the early 1970s bore the "Pickwick/33" imprint.

Singer-songwriter Lou Reed once worked as a staff songwriter for Pickwick Records, and gained experience in their small recording studio. Several of Pickwick's soundalike albums from 1964 to 1965 feature Reed as an uncredited session musician. Two of his songs, "Cycle Annie" (credited to The Beachnuts) and "You're Driving Me Insane" (as The Roughnecks), both appeared on the Soundsville! compilation in 1965. "The Ostrich" and "Sneaky Pete", two earlier songs by Reed, united him with John Cale, leading to their founding the Velvet Underground.

Amos Heilicher and his brother Daniel Heilicher merged their Musicland retail chain with Pickwick International in the late 1960s. Capitol Records had an early interest in Pickwick, and many of its artists had recordings issued on Pickwick; however, Capitol sold its share in the company in 1970.

In the 1970s the label changed direction, and began reissuing LPs that had been deleted from catalogs of the major record labels, especially the RCA Records subsidiary RCA Camden, itself a budget reissue label. Besides the RCA Camden catalog, the company also put out an edited reissue of Elvis Presley's soundtrack album to Frankie and Johnny, and a two-LP set of mostly movie songs entitled Double Dynamite. After Presley's death in August 1977, RCA began reissuing Presley's catalog, and several of the Pickwick Presley albums were reissued on the RCA Camden label.

Pickwick also reissued numerous LPs from the Motown catalog during the 1970s. On many of these albums, the cover art was changed, and/or the track listing was altered (with two or more songs deleted). In the early 1980s Motown began re-releasing its own catalog albums, thus ending Pickwick's series.

The company also started the subsidiary label P.I.P and started distributing Gene Redd's De-Lite Records, to issue original material. De-Lite hit it big in 1974 and 1975 with million-selling singles & album (music)s by funk band Kool & The Gang. P.I.P had a couple of big dance club hits with "7-6-5-4-3-2-1 (Blow Your Whistle)" and "Drive My Car" by Gary Toms Empire in 1975.

In 1977, Pickwick was sold to American Can Company, who relocated their corporate headquarters from Long Island City, New York to Minneapolis, Minnesota, then subsequently sold its assets to PolyGram Records in the same year. PolyGram maintained the De-Lite Records label for releases by Kool & the Gang who experienced a second wave of success after the addition of new lead singer, J.T. Taylor, beginning with the group's 1979 album, Ladies Night. Polygram later did away with the De-lite imprint, and subsequent Kool & The Gang records were issued by PolyGram's Mercury label.

After the purchase by PolyGram, Pickwick started putting out new material again, but this time it was "Sound-Alike" albums which featured covers of a certain artist or group on one album, and Disco Christmas albums. Most of those albums were performed by session musicians and singers dubbed Mirror Image; Pickwick also issued a few from groups such as The Young Lovers and Kings Road in earlier years. This lasted until 1983 when PolyGram folded Pickwick.

The Hallmark name has since been revived as a budget record label owned by the Pickwick Group.

Current ownership
Pickwick's catalog (including the entire De-lite/Mercury catalog of Kool & The Gang) is now owned by Universal Music which merged with PolyGram in 1998.


In the early 1980s, Pickwick manufactured so-called "audiophile" pressings on heavy vinyl (usually 180-240 grams). However, some audio aficionados found sound quality in these pressings inferior to that of normal vinyl. These LPs were quickly deleted and taken off the shelves to a point where some record collectors are willing to pay fortunes for these pressings. In 2003, a copy of The Beach Boys Greatest Hits sold for just over $2,500 at auction, and in 2008 a copy of James Bond—The Themes (which was, in fact, cover singers, a purely soundalike record) sold for $4,000 in mint-sealed condition.


Pickwick was well known for its "soundalike" records which would often claim to be original, but had nothing more than in-house bands or singers covering. When they released The Everly's in 1984, all the songs were in fact covered by a singing duo called "Twice Divided"


Always Elvis
Anthony
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