Mining Elvis Presley's catalog: Found ... and Lost!

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Mining Elvis Presley's catalog: Found ... and Lost!

#1552258

Post by drjohncarpenter »

I'm not sure if this blog has been shared here before. It's a nice little interview with Ernst Jørgensen at the time of the release of The Complete Elvis Presley Masters. Some of his comments remain interesting, and others a bit sad, even six years later.

Enjoy!

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THE L.A. TIMES MUSIC BLOG


Mining Elvis Presley's catalog: What was found and what was lost
DECEMBER 27, 2010 | 12:09 PM


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“The Complete Elvis Presley Masters” is a marvel to behold, and a behemoth to explore. Over its 30 CDs are the astonishing array of music that the King of Rock 'n' Roll recorded over a quarter century -- 711 master tracks, more than triple what the Beatles issued during their career, plus more than 100 other outtakes, unreleased songs and live performances.

And even though 162 of those songs on the new box set charted during Presley’s lifetime, that leaves a monstrous amount far less known, a source of considerable pride and pleasure to Ernst Jorgensen, the Danish record exec and lifelong Elvis fan who’s been in charge of his catalog reissues for the last 20 years.

“When Elvis died in 1977, who thought we would ever find four demos recorded by him before he ever made a recording at Sun Records?” Jorgensen told me during an interview for a story that appeared Friday in Calendar. “That has to be the highlight of the rarities section. We found so many things simply by being around.”

Of course, the issue of what was found brings with it the question of what wasn’t. Jorgenson has spent two decades scouring the world for Presley recordings, and at this point doesn’t anticipate any major new discoveries.

“We don’t have our hands on everything,” he said. “In 1959, RCA Records destroyed about 20,000 tapes to save space in some warehouse building in Indianapolis. There were lots of Elvis Sun tapes and '50s records. These were not the masters, but the outtakes. On that, I have given up. I've known every vault keeper there was, I’ve known the paperwork… With the Internet and eBay, most people who have something worth any money have been out shaking it, trying to sell it.”

Other than outtakes from the fabled Sun sessions magically appearing one day, Jorgensen’s Holy Grail acquisition would be recordings of Presley’s early live performances.

“What I’d appreciate,” he said with a laugh, “is for you to go back down through Texas and Louisiana and find me some more radio tapes of Elvis on ‘Louisiana Hayride.’ …For me, to hear early Elvis before he was famous, out there singing, is the ultimate. [Chuck Berry’s] ‘Maybellene’ popped up; that’s on the box." So is an 1955 live recording of an effervescent Presley covering LaVern Baker's bouncy R&B hit "Tweedlee Dee.”

“It came with the territory: If you were young and known at the 'Louisiana Hayride,' when you came there on a Saturday you had to sing the songs that were popular at the time,” Jorgensen said. “Whether it was Elvis or [rockabilly singer] Jeanette Hicks, somebody had to sing ‘Tweedlee Dee’ that night.”

-- Randy Lewis

Photo of Elvis Presley performing in the 1950s. Credit: Sony Music Archives


http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/music_blog/2010/12/elvis-presley-complete-masters-box-set.html


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Re: Mining Elvis Presley's catalog: Found ... and Lost!

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Post by sweetangeline »

this part still kills me years later;

“We don’t have our hands on everything,” he said. “In 1959, RCA Records destroyed about 20,000 tapes to save space in some warehouse building in Indianapolis. There were lots of Elvis Sun tapes and '50s records. These were not the masters, but the outtakes. On that, I have given up. I've known every vault keeper there was, I’ve known the paperwork… With the Internet and eBay, most people who have something worth any money have been out shaking it, trying to sell it.”

:cry:




poormadpeter2

Re: Mining Elvis Presley's catalog: Found ... and Lost!

#1552269

Post by poormadpeter2 »

sweetangeline wrote:this part still kills me years later;

“We don’t have our hands on everything,” he said. “In 1959, RCA Records destroyed about 20,000 tapes to save space in some warehouse building in Indianapolis. There were lots of Elvis Sun tapes and '50s records. These were not the masters, but the outtakes. On that, I have given up. I've known every vault keeper there was, I’ve known the paperwork… With the Internet and eBay, most people who have something worth any money have been out shaking it, trying to sell it.”

:cry:
But it made sense at the time. There was no interest (and no foreseeable interest) in outtakes of ANY artist pretty much, so why spend the money to keep them. They couldn't see into the future.




barrym

Re: Mining Elvis Presley's catalog: Found ... and Lost!

#1552270

Post by barrym »

The folks at RCA never gave thought to the future in regard to the outtakes, but it's the old story, once we have the master why bother with the outtakes.
Can only imagine all the great outtakes they got rid of, the list would be endless.




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Re: Mining Elvis Presley's catalog: Found ... and Lost!

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Post by sweetangeline »

poormadpeter2 wrote:
sweetangeline wrote:this part still kills me years later;

“We don’t have our hands on everything,” he said. “In 1959, RCA Records destroyed about 20,000 tapes to save space in some warehouse building in Indianapolis. There were lots of Elvis Sun tapes and '50s records. These were not the masters, but the outtakes. On that, I have given up. I've known every vault keeper there was, I’ve known the paperwork… With the Internet and eBay, most people who have something worth any money have been out shaking it, trying to sell it.”

:cry:
But it made sense at the time. There was no interest (and no foreseeable interest) in outtakes of ANY artist pretty much, so why spend the money to keep them. They couldn't see into the future.
...no kidding...I get that...my point is "imagine what may have been there"????



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Re: Mining Elvis Presley's catalog: Found ... and Lost!

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Post by Domino »

Bet RCA is kicking themselves now.Why didn't someone just donate a basement ? Well any money they saved on storage is peanuts compared with the millions upon millions that they lost from destroying the tapes.


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jerrynodak

Re: Mining Elvis Presley's catalog: Found ... and Lost!

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Post by jerrynodak »

Millions upon millions? Unlikely.




fragance

Re: Mining Elvis Presley's catalog: Found ... and Lost!

#1552331

Post by fragance »

Hound Dog Outtakes lost forever nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo cryinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng :smt022 :smt022



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Re: Mining Elvis Presley's catalog: Found ... and Lost!

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Post by jurasic1968 »

Very sad indeed.



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Re: Mining Elvis Presley's catalog: Found ... and Lost!

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Post by promiseland »

sweetangeline wrote:this part still kills me years later;

“We don’t have our hands on everything,” he said. “In 1959, RCA Records destroyed about 20,000 tapes to save space in some warehouse building in Indianapolis. There were lots of Elvis Sun tapes and '50s records. These were not the masters, but the outtakes. On that, I have given up. I've known every vault keeper there was, I’ve known the paperwork… With the Internet and eBay, most people who have something worth any money have been out shaking it, trying to sell it.”

:cry:
And this doesn't even include all the ones they recorded over to save money on tape, although I'm sure a few were included here..



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Re: Mining Elvis Presley's catalog: Found ... and Lost!

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Post by When In Rome »

It's not just RCA who re-used tapes and destroyed stuff. The BBC re-used their tapes and destroyed stuff that they too thought had no further use. Sad but true, however one can't blame them for what was probably industry practice back in the day.

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Re: Mining Elvis Presley's catalog: Found ... and Lost!

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Post by Domino »

jerrynodak wrote:Millions upon millions? Unlikely.

So what kind of price would you stick on Sun recordings ? It sure as heck wouldn't be monopoly money.And you gotta figure that these are recordings that could have been released and re released through the last 40 years.It would be a chunk of change.


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poormadpeter2

Re: Mining Elvis Presley's catalog: Found ... and Lost!

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Post by poormadpeter2 »

Domino wrote:
jerrynodak wrote:Millions upon millions? Unlikely.

So what kind of price would you stick on Sun recordings ? It sure as heck wouldn't be monopoly money.And you gotta figure that these are recordings that could have been released and re released through the last 40 years.It would be a chunk of change.

Do you think millions waa made when rca released When It Rains It Really Pours or Harbor Lights because I don't.




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Re: Mining Elvis Presley's catalog: Found ... and Lost!

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Post by Eggrert »

poormadpeter2 wrote:But it made sense at the time. There was no interest (and no foreseeable interest) in outtakes of ANY artist pretty much, so why spend the money to keep them. They couldn't see into the future.
I've always been amazed that we have as much as we do. Why did they decide to hold onto (most of) the 60s and 70s outtakes? I would have thought they would have been trashed a long time ago.



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Re: Mining Elvis Presley's catalog: Found ... and Lost!

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Post by Erhan »

I think Tigerman tape also destroyed at that time.


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Re: Mining Elvis Presley's catalog: Found ... and Lost!

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Post by midnightx »

sweetangeline wrote:this part still kills me years later;

“We don’t have our hands on everything,” he said. “In 1959, RCA Records destroyed about 20,000 tapes to save space in some warehouse building in Indianapolis. There were lots of Elvis Sun tapes and '50s records. These were not the masters, but the outtakes. On that, I have given up. I've known every vault keeper there was, I’ve known the paperwork… With the Internet and eBay, most people who have something worth any money have been out shaking it, trying to sell it.”

:cry:
Yeah, that is a very discouraging statement, but a reality most well-informed fans have understood for quite some time. Seeing Ernst's statement once again readdresses the loss and reiterates that some incredible music from SUN (1953-1955) and RCA (1956) have most likely been lost to time, rather than vault theft.




poormadpeter2

Re: Mining Elvis Presley's catalog: Found ... and Lost!

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Post by poormadpeter2 »

Eggrert wrote:
poormadpeter2 wrote:But it made sense at the time. There was no interest (and no foreseeable interest) in outtakes of ANY artist pretty much, so why spend the money to keep them. They couldn't see into the future.
I've always been amazed that we have as much as we do. Why did they decide to hold onto (most of) the 60s and 70s outtakes? I would have thought they would have been trashed a long time ago.
Perhaps tape and/or storage had become cheaper by then. There was also a different view of Elvis by this point. In the 50s he was not viewed by someone who was going to be having a career decades later. By the 1960s it was clear that he was not just some flash in the pan, and even by the end of 1960 had been nominated for a number if Grammy's.



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Re: Mining Elvis Presley's catalog: Found ... and Lost!

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Post by midnightx »

poormadpeter2 wrote:
Eggrert wrote:
poormadpeter2 wrote:But it made sense at the time. There was no interest (and no foreseeable interest) in outtakes of ANY artist pretty much, so why spend the money to keep them. They couldn't see into the future.
I've always been amazed that we have as much as we do. Why did they decide to hold onto (most of) the 60s and 70s outtakes? I would have thought they would have been trashed a long time ago.
Perhaps tape and/or storage had become cheaper by then. There was also a different view of Elvis by this point. In the 50s he was not viewed by someone who was going to be having a career decades later. By the 1960s it was clear that he was not just some flash in the pan, and even by the end of 1960 had been nominated for a number if Grammy's.
Regardless of what the view of Elvis may have been within the company, during the late 1950's when tapes were discarded or erased, Elvis was RCA's biggest selling artist. One would think any reel with his name on it would have been put aside for any conceivable future use.




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Re: Mining Elvis Presley's catalog: Found ... and Lost!

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Post by Davelee »

midnightx wrote:
poormadpeter2 wrote:
Eggrert wrote:
poormadpeter2 wrote:But it made sense at the time. There was no interest (and no foreseeable interest) in outtakes of ANY artist pretty much, so why spend the money to keep them. They couldn't see into the future.
I've always been amazed that we have as much as we do. Why did they decide to hold onto (most of) the 60s and 70s outtakes? I would have thought they would have been trashed a long time ago.
Perhaps tape and/or storage had become cheaper by then. There was also a different view of Elvis by this point. In the 50s he was not viewed by someone who was going to be having a career decades later. By the 1960s it was clear that he was not just some flash in the pan, and even by the end of 1960 had been nominated for a number if Grammy's.
Regardless of what the view of Elvis may have been within the company, during the late 1950's when tapes were discarded or erased, Elvis was RCA's biggest selling artist. One would think any reel with his name on it would have been put aside for any conceivable future use.
Mind you, it's never been proven that Elvis was in amongst the 1959 dumping of the tapes - it's just been assumed.



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Re: Mining Elvis Presley's catalog: Found ... and Lost!

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Post by drjohncarpenter »

Davelee wrote:
midnightx wrote:Regardless of what the view of Elvis may have been within the company, during the late 1950's when tapes were discarded or erased, Elvis was RCA's biggest selling artist. One would think any reel with his name on it would have been put aside for any conceivable future use.
Mind you, it's never been proven that Elvis was in amongst the 1959 dumping of the tapes - it's just been assumed.
IIRC. Ernst mentioned in an interview that he saw a list of Elvis tapes sent to that site. This is why he can speak to the fact they are part of this ill-conceived, 1959 purge.


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Re: Mining Elvis Presley's catalog: Found ... and Lost!

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Post by Domino »

poormadpeter2 wrote:
Domino wrote:
jerrynodak wrote:Millions upon millions? Unlikely.

So what kind of price would you stick on Sun recordings ? It sure as heck wouldn't be monopoly money.And you gotta figure that these are recordings that could have been released and re released through the last 40 years.It would be a chunk of change.

Do you think millions waa made when rca released When It Rains It Really Pours or Harbor Lights because I don't.

Well if your gonna assume I meant millions off just 2 songs then of course not.Think of all the songs and outtakes that have been released and re released over the past 40 years on multiple collections.What if they didn't exist ? Imagine all the releases that wouldn't have unreleased Sun tracks .Some of them wouldn't have been so interesting to some fans and would have been left on the shelf.Box sets with alternate Sun tracks are still being repackaged today.If they are not in the millions yet ,they will be some day whereas what was on those discarded tapes will never be worth a dime.


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Re: Mining Elvis Presley's catalog: Found ... and Lost!

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Post by Davelee »

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Davelee wrote:
midnightx wrote:Regardless of what the view of Elvis may have been within the company, during the late 1950's when tapes were discarded or erased, Elvis was RCA's biggest selling artist. One would think any reel with his name on it would have been put aside for any conceivable future use.
Mind you, it's never been proven that Elvis was in amongst the 1959 dumping of the tapes - it's just been assumed.
IIRC. Ernst mentioned in an interview that he saw a list of Elvis tapes sent to that site. This is why he can speak to the fact they are part of this ill-conceived, 1959 purge.
Ok. I wasn't aware of that. Thanks




poormadpeter2

Re: Mining Elvis Presley's catalog: Found ... and Lost!

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Post by poormadpeter2 »

midnightx wrote:
poormadpeter2 wrote:
Eggrert wrote:
poormadpeter2 wrote:But it made sense at the time. There was no interest (and no foreseeable interest) in outtakes of ANY artist pretty much, so why spend the money to keep them. They couldn't see into the future.
I've always been amazed that we have as much as we do. Why did they decide to hold onto (most of) the 60s and 70s outtakes? I would have thought they would have been trashed a long time ago.
Perhaps tape and/or storage had become cheaper by then. There was also a different view of Elvis by this point. In the 50s he was not viewed by someone who was going to be having a career decades later. By the 1960s it was clear that he was not just some flash in the pan, and even by the end of 1960 had been nominated for a number if Grammy's.
Regardless of what the view of Elvis may have been within the company, during the late 1950's when tapes were discarded or erased, Elvis was RCA's biggest selling artist. One would think any reel with his name on it would have been put aside for any conceivable future use.
Yes, but who believed he had stayability?

And why keep the outtakes? As far as they were aware they would never be released or required. Music (and film and TV) wasnt designed to be of the ages back then. It would be another decade or so before the drip feed of alternate takes from important artists began hitting the market. Its not like these tapes had unreleased masters on them.



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Re: Mining Elvis Presley's catalog: Found ... and Lost!

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Post by JeroenNL »

I still believe in RCA employees taking tapes home for their personal collection. So there still is hope for some things to turn up...



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Re: Mining Elvis Presley's catalog: Found ... and Lost!

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Post by elvisalisellers »

JeroenNL wrote:I still believe in RCA employees taking tapes home for their personal collection. So there still is hope for some things to turn up...
Of course, that's on the understanding that all session tapes were delivered to RCA in the first place.


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