So How Good An Actor Was Elvis?
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Re: So How Good An Actor Was Elvis?
A better actor than he's being credited for by some here (IMO)... that said, he is actually more "wooden" in "Charro" than in previous films.
There are a few scenes in "Change Of Habit" too, in which you can see he is just too self conscious. I'd have thought he'd be comfortable in front of a camera by this time, that said again, it may just be Elvis' personality, you can see him playing with his cuff-links in the Timex show and in the Gospel medley in the '68 special...part of his appeal I suppose.
There are a few scenes in "Change Of Habit" too, in which you can see he is just too self conscious. I'd have thought he'd be comfortable in front of a camera by this time, that said again, it may just be Elvis' personality, you can see him playing with his cuff-links in the Timex show and in the Gospel medley in the '68 special...part of his appeal I suppose.
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Re: So How Good An Actor Was Elvis?
I think that Kissin' Cousins was the moment when Elvis realized that his acting career was going to nowhere.
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Re: So How Good An Actor Was Elvis?
I thought he was pretty natural in COH although I've only seen it once. I switched Charro off after about 30 mins, a few years ago, and sold the DVD on ebay. What I saw was crap and boring, although I kinda wish I'd kept it to give it another go one day when I'm ill in bed or something:)Dan_T wrote:A better actor than he's being credited for by some here (IMO)... that said, he is actually more "wooden" in "Charro" than in previous films.
There are a few scenes in "Change Of Habit" too, in which you can see he is just too self conscious. I'd have thought he'd be comfortable in front of a camera by this time, that said again, it may just be Elvis' personality, you can see him playing with his cuff-links in the Timex show and in the Gospel medley in the '68 special...part of his appeal I suppose.
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Re: So How Good An Actor Was Elvis?
I sold most of my Elvis movies on DVD. There are very few I can sit thru nowadays. I kept the ones I could watch once in a while. Most are painful reminders of how a brilliant career was derailed and almost killed due to greed and a bad manager.
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Re: So How Good An Actor Was Elvis?
Elvis was too unfocused or lazy to let things run out of hand, and just take project after project only to sulk afterwards. I would exaggerate to say that if he could, he would get someone to sing for him. Wait a second. He did!r&b wrote:I sold most of my Elvis movies on DVD. There are very few I can sit thru nowadays. I kept the ones I could watch once in a while. Most are painful reminders of how a brilliant career was derailed and almost killed due to greed and a bad manager.
And in my opinion, there is no comparison with Sinatra as an actor. Sinatra IIRC, always took acting seriously. And when his career was in the dumps, he moved heaven and hell to get the part of supporting role for "From Here To Eternity", winning an Oscar and because of this success, getting a recording contract again after losing it with Columbia, with Capitol Records. Something made Elvis lose the drive to fight that hard as Sinatra. And it wasn't the Colonel.
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Re: So How Good An Actor Was Elvis?
It's just a head scratcher as to why preeminent Western genre authority Charles Marquis Warren failed so miserably with "Charro." For a maverick guy who masterminded the development of three iconic television Westerns--"Gunsmoke," "Rawhide," and "The Virginian"--and wrote Gregory Peck's "Only the Valiant", Gary Cooper's "Springfield Rifle", Charlton Heston's "Arrowhead," and Glenn Ford's "Day of the Evil Gun" (released the year before "Charro"), "Charro" deserved a better fate. Warren must have been at the end of the line creatively speaking, as "Charro" finished his film career as writer-producer-director with a whimper.
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Re: So How Good An Actor Was Elvis?
And an artist that didn't, at some point, say "enough."r&b wrote:I sold most of my Elvis movies on DVD. There are very few I can sit thru nowadays. I kept the ones I could watch once in a while. Most are painful reminders of how a brilliant career was derailed and almost killed due to greed and a bad manager.
Let me guess the ones you kept:
Loving You
Jailhouse Rock
King Creole
Flaming Star
Follow That Dream
Kid Galahad
Viva Las Vegas
.
Dr. John Carpenter, M.D.
Stop, look and listen, baby <<--->> that's my philosophy!
Dr. John Carpenter, M.D.
Stop, look and listen, baby <<--->> that's my philosophy!
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Re: So How Good An Actor Was Elvis?
Pretty close. Add Love Me Tender, WIITC (big fan of Tuesday Weld, Hope Lange & Millie Perkins!) and add LALLAL (love Ms Carey, altho sometimes I cant make it thru that one) and add Change of Habit. Altho not a great movie I had to keep his last movie since I kept his first. I also like to see Darlene Love for the brief time she is seen in it. Of course I also have the 2 MGM docs.drjohncarpenter wrote:And an artist that didn't, at some point, say "enough."r&b wrote:I sold most of my Elvis movies on DVD. There are very few I can sit thru nowadays. I kept the ones I could watch once in a while. Most are painful reminders of how a brilliant career was derailed and almost killed due to greed and a bad manager.
Let me guess the ones you kept:
Loving You
Jailhouse Rock
King Creole
Flaming Star
Follow That Dream
Kid Galahad
Viva Las Vegas
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Re: So How Good An Actor Was Elvis?
Indeed, and Presley favorite Peter Sellers is another example: peppered within and among his briliance and brilliant films over the years are some almost or totally unwatchable nightmares, some of them involving undeniable writing / acting / directing talent of figures such as his friend Spike Milligan, and Roman Polanski.Greystoke wrote:Sometimes, and with the best of intentions and plenty of talent involved, some projects just don't materialise as planned. Chaplin`s A Countless from Hong Kong (1967), for example. Which he wrote, produced and directed, with Marlon Brando and Sophia Loren starring in the film's leading roles. And it's abysmal. Elvis was acting in better films around the same time, and giving better performances than Brando does here.jeremylr wrote:It's just a head scratcher as to why preeminent Western genre authority Charles Marquis Warren failed so miserably with "Charro." For a maverick guy who masterminded the development of three iconic television Westerns--"Gunsmoke," "Rawhide," and "The Virginian"--and wrote Gregory Peck's "Only the Valiant", Gary Cooper's "Springfield Rifle", Charlton Heston's "Arrowhead," and Glenn Ford's "Day of the Evil Gun" (released the year before "Charro"), "Charro" deserved a better fate. Warren must have been at the end of the line creatively speaking, as "Charro" finished his film career as writer-producer-director with a whimper.
How does this relate to Charro! and Charles Marquis Warren? Like Chaplin with A Countless from Hong Kong, Warren (as you know) wrote, produced and directed Charro!. But this was the first film he had produced and/or directed since Blood Arrow in 1958 (which isn't particularly good). Whilst Chaplin hadn't written, produced or directed a movie for ten years when he made A Countess from Hong Kong.
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Re: So How Good An Actor Was Elvis?
I have heard from a couple of people that the original script for Charro was originally more violent and then it was toned down when Elvis got the lead. We will never know if the original script was better because having it be violent doesn't necessarily mean better. That is pretty common though Hollywood studios buy a script but then they almost always hire other writers to do uncredited rewrites. Sometimes for the best and sometimes not.
Re: So How Good An Actor Was Elvis?
Interesting question.
Personally, I would have called Elvis an adequate actor who usually did a convincing job of playing himself through the role. A method he was not.
As actors, I have always likened Elvis to Errol Flynn, as also did Hal Wallis. Both had on amazing on-screen charisma, but neither was an especially good or talented actor, especially Flynn who couldn't act to save his life and to him it was all just a means to an end anyay. I think Elvis wanted to be gerat actor, but he was never given the coaching (unlike, for example, Brando) and was never given the roles.
I think JHR was a rock'n'roll masterpiece (and in black and white please). KC is just brilliant, everything, the script, the cast, the set design, production, of course, the wonderful music and all directed by the graet Michale Curtiz . They were Elvis' best films. I think it has been difficult for me to apprecaite most of the rest ever since I was about 12 and although I did (do) think most of it is rubbish both my children would disagree with me I am sure ... which can't be a bad thing.
Personally, I would have called Elvis an adequate actor who usually did a convincing job of playing himself through the role. A method he was not.
As actors, I have always likened Elvis to Errol Flynn, as also did Hal Wallis. Both had on amazing on-screen charisma, but neither was an especially good or talented actor, especially Flynn who couldn't act to save his life and to him it was all just a means to an end anyay. I think Elvis wanted to be gerat actor, but he was never given the coaching (unlike, for example, Brando) and was never given the roles.
I think JHR was a rock'n'roll masterpiece (and in black and white please). KC is just brilliant, everything, the script, the cast, the set design, production, of course, the wonderful music and all directed by the graet Michale Curtiz . They were Elvis' best films. I think it has been difficult for me to apprecaite most of the rest ever since I was about 12 and although I did (do) think most of it is rubbish both my children would disagree with me I am sure ... which can't be a bad thing.
Last edited by GLAISTER on Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: So How Good An Actor Was Elvis?
Did SInatra take lessons or have a coach? He really got good at it after a few movies.Juan Luis wrote:Elvis was too unfocused or lazy to let things run out of hand, and just take project after project only to sulk afterwards. I would exaggerate to say that if he could, he would get someone to sing for him. Wait a second. He did!r&b wrote:I sold most of my Elvis movies on DVD. There are very few I can sit thru nowadays. I kept the ones I could watch once in a while. Most are painful reminders of how a brilliant career was derailed and almost killed due to greed and a bad manager.
And in my opinion, there is no comparison with Sinatra as an actor. Sinatra IIRC, always took acting seriously. And when his career was in the dumps, he moved heaven and hell to get the part of supporting role for "From Here To Eternity", winning an Oscar and because of this success, getting a recording contract again after losing it with Columbia, with Capitol Records. Something made Elvis lose the drive to fight that hard as Sinatra. And it wasn't the Colonel.
Re: So How Good An Actor Was Elvis?
I pretty much agree with your entire post. I find Elvis to be engaging and very believable in the light comedies. I'd say he was a very good actor if I just saw these, especially FTD, VLV,BH,and a few others. But when he was asked to project anger it was plain cringe worthy. If I just saw those moments, I'd think he was about as bad as it gets. Nothing wrong with being a comedic, or light drama actor a opposed to a Robert DiNiro type.TCBell wrote:In 1957, Elvis was asked about his movie-acting so far, and he replied “In some scenes, I was pretty natural. And in others I was trying to act. And when you start trying to act, you're dead.” I think he hit the nail on the head.
While watching Elvis In Hollywood the other night, I was reminded of him “trying to act” in Love Me Tender during the scene where he gets angry with Cathy, pushing her to the ground. I always cringe slightly at this point, I don’t know if he’s trying to get his words out too quickly or maybe trying too hard, but I feel sure this is what he meant when he said he was trying to act. Unfortunately, this is reminiscent of a scene in Charro! when he again attempts to portray anger, saying to Vince “...you brought me here for a reason, NOW WHAT IS IT?”.
I personally feel that he was suited to the roles he was mostly forced to play in the sixties, that of light musical comedy. We all know the movies generally follow the same plot, with only slight variations. We also know the music was not consistently good, but then it was not consistently bad either. I’m not a big fan of musicals as such, but of those that I’ve watched, there are always good songs and bad songs.
I like his attempts to “act more, sing less” (Flaming Star, Wild In The Country) but also appreciate his more relaxed and natural comedic style.
I have recently watched all his movies in order from Love Me Tender to Change Of Habit - starting high (fifties), dipping low (Harum Scarum), then rising again towards the end, when he appeared in more mature roles.
I know that ultimately, he hated making these movies, but they continue to give us so much pleasure. I have known people in the past who were not Elvis fans, but liked his movies... Something For Everybody!
So how good an actor was Elvis?
There were a very few instances where I felt he showed some dramatic promise but those were few and far between.
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Re: So How Good An Actor Was Elvis?
Just to clarify, "The Meanest Men in the West" contained no new footage and was entirely edited together from two episodes of "The Virginian" filmed five years apart. Very odd watching this disjointed "movie" which was patched together for international distribution, some seven years after the series ended, on the basis of Charles Bronson's and Lee Marvin's star power. According to Paul Green's 2014 biography "Roy Huggins: Creator of Maverick, 77 Sunset Strip, The Fugitive and The Rockford Files," executive producer Charles Marquis Warren was fired over creative direction and replaced by Huggins before the first episode of "The Virginian" aired on September 19, 1962...so I find it pretty dubious when IMDB asserts that Warren was involved in "The Meanest Men in the West"--I assume Universal simply credited him for the clips taken from the season one episode of "It Tolls for Thee" featuring baddie Lee Marvin. Always relish your posts, Greystoke!
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Re: So How Good An Actor Was Elvis?
Thanks. I really wish Elvis had taken some pointers from SInatra in terms of career direction. Not musically of course, but in terms of movies, world touring, getting the best songs possible regardless of publishing, etc. Franks career is considered to be stellar by most show biz critics because he truly did it His Way. Elvis did it Parkers way and it cost him some credibility.Greystoke wrote:Sinatra worked extensively with Gene Kelly early in his career and made a deliberate effort to spend time on the set of various films with the intention of learning and improving himself. He also took advice from friends in the industry, such as James Stewart and Orson Welles, and even hired Boris Karloff as his acting coach at one point. For Kings Go Forth (1958). Frank wasn't formally trained. But he learned on the job and in the environment he chose to work. And the results speak for themselves.r&b wrote:Did SInatra take lessons or have a coach? He really got good at it after a few movies.Juan Luis wrote:Elvis was too unfocused or lazy to let things run out of hand, and just take project after project only to sulk afterwards. I would exaggerate to say that if he could, he would get someone to sing for him. Wait a second. He did!r&b wrote:I sold most of my Elvis movies on DVD. There are very few I can sit thru nowadays. I kept the ones I could watch once in a while. Most are painful reminders of how a brilliant career was derailed and almost killed due to greed and a bad manager.
And in my opinion, there is no comparison with Sinatra as an actor. Sinatra IIRC, always took acting seriously. And when his career was in the dumps, he moved heaven and hell to get the part of supporting role for "From Here To Eternity", winning an Oscar and because of this success, getting a recording contract again after losing it with Columbia, with Capitol Records. Something made Elvis lose the drive to fight that hard as Sinatra. And it wasn't the Colonel.
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Re: So How Good An Actor Was Elvis?
They aren't.Wiebe wrote:I think people are grossly exaggerating when they say Elvis did it Parkers way.
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Re: So How Good An Actor Was Elvis?
Surely they arent. Even Elvis himself said in interviews he leaves all the business deals to Parker. He doesnt get involved with that end of the business. That doesnt much sound like a guy doing it his way .brian wrote:They aren't.Wiebe wrote:I think people are grossly exaggerating when they say Elvis did it Parkers way.
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Re: So How Good An Actor Was Elvis?
No. Elvis stood apart because of his incredible looks, voice and the music explosion he led in the 50's. Come the 60's, he had goals for the movies, that didnt work out so he got into a tremendous film rut that lasted until the end of the decade, while the musical world changed around him without much worthy contribution from Elvis who seemed isolated in his own shell and out of touch. A brief return to glory and then another ugly rut of a grinding touring and Vegas schedule that showed a performer who eventually lost musical innovation and eventually his life. Sure, there were bright spots along the way, a few good movies, a few good songs, but the deals Parker made for movies, getting decent material to record, and eventually touring/Vegas gigs were indeed bad for him. Do u really think a guy like SInatra would have stood for these things? I dont. He would have told him to hit the road many years before.Wiebe wrote:But my friend, it's not the business end that made Elvis stand apart from everybody else, was it?r&b wrote:Surely they arent. Even Elvis himself said in interviews he leaves all the business deals to Parker. He doesnt get involved with that end of the business. That doesnt much sound like a guy doing it his way .brian wrote:They aren't.Wiebe wrote:I think people are grossly exaggerating when they say Elvis did it Parkers way.
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Re: So How Good An Actor Was Elvis?
That's not what people are talking about when they say that.Wiebe wrote:So all of his work we owe to Parker, all the hits from That's alright mama to Suspicious Minds and beyond? His way of singing everything. So we are actually Tom Parker fans.
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Re: So How Good An Actor Was Elvis?
Parker was a control freak who was scared of losing Elvis so he kept him isolated from people in the business who could help Elvis grow as an artist. Look how Elvis responded when he worked with people like Leiber and Stoller,Steve Binder and Chips Moman.Ive just watched Blue Hawaii (After not seeing it for years)with my son and I can't believe how many songs are in it,it was ALL about the music rather than the quality of the films.BUT saying this I read (I think it was in Elvis Day By Day) that Parker wrote to Hal Wallis requesting better roles for Elvis?
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Re: So How Good An Actor Was Elvis?
Yes but it doesnt mean its a good way. I bet many people think of the clownish ETAs like the flying Elvises as much as Elvis when they see such iconic symbols. I kind of wish it never happened to be honest. Id much rather picture Elvis as he looked in 1968 than he did in the 70's. I guess you are one of those fans who think everything Elvis did was great and special. Sorry Im no longer that type of fan. I seen a young boy this past Halloween with a wig and huge sidebruns trick or treating. Im not even sure he knows who Elvis was, could have been his parents idea (isnt that cute dear?). Thank goodness he didnt have a jumpsuit.Wiebe wrote:How about focusing on his music and his looks and how many people tried to copy that and were inspired by what he did.r&b wrote:No. Elvis stood apart because of his incredible looks, voice and the music explosion he led in the 50's. Come the 60's, he had goals for the movies, that didnt work out so he got into a tremendous film rut that lasted until the end of the decade, while the musical world changed around him without much worthy contribution from Elvis who seemed isolated in his own shell and out of touch. A brief return to glory and then another ugly rut of a grinding touring and Vegas schedule that showed a performer who eventually lost musical innovation and eventually his life. Sure, there were bright spots along the way, a few good movies, a few good songs, but the deals Parker made for movies, getting decent material to record, and eventually touring/Vegas gigs were indeed bad for him. Do u really think a guy like SInatra would have stood for these things? I dont. He would have told him to hit the road many years before.Wiebe wrote:But my friend, it's not the business end that made Elvis stand apart from everybody else, was it?r&b wrote:Surely they arent. Even Elvis himself said in interviews he leaves all the business deals to Parker. He doesnt get involved with that end of the business. That doesnt much sound like a guy doing it his way .brian wrote:They aren't.Wiebe wrote:I think people are grossly exaggerating when they say Elvis did it Parkers way.
So how can that not be 'his way'? Even the 70s he did his way. If someone sees a jump suit and sideburns what does that remind people of? He was iconic in many ways, how is that not his way?
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Re: So How Good An Actor Was Elvis?
Blue Hawaii was one of Elvis' better movies. I've heard that Parker wrote that letter after seeing Harum Scarum which Hal Wallis didn't produce.jacob wrote:Parker was a control freak who was scared of losing Elvis so he kept him isolated from people in the business who could help Elvis grow as an artist. Look how Elvis responded when he worked with people like Leiber and Stoller,Steve Binder and Chips Moman.Ive just watched Blue Hawaii (After not seeing it for years)with my son and I can't believe how many songs are in it,it was ALL about the music rather than the quality of the films.BUT saying this I read (I think it was in Elvis Day By Day) that Parker wrote to Hal Wallis requesting better roles for Elvis?
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Re: So How Good An Actor Was Elvis?
Hang on a minute, we are going down the route again of accepting the various myths and stories that have floated around for years despite looking at the facts. Remember that, while Parker might have advised on film roles (most notably with Wallis), at MGM in particular he would have been told to butt out for the most part and mind his own business. By the Colonel's own admission, neither he nor Elvis had a say in anything: "We don't have approval on scripts - only money," he is quoted as saying in the candid 1964 interview with Variety which can be found in an earlier topic I started here: https://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=82561&p=1279025&hilit=Variety#p1279025 There is no reason to disbelieve this statement - it's not like it's making Parker look good, quite the opposite in fact.
This notion that Parker was a feared and respected figure is simply what he wanted people to believe. But was he really? Highly unlikely. Studio bosses had coped with far more dominant forces than Parker. So, while, yes, Parker is saying that it's all about the money - he's also saying that neither he or Elvis have a say in the script. So they DON'T have a big say in a production - which is just as bad as Parker having too much say, in many respects.
And Parker may or may not have been a control freak, but we have to look at the other side of the coin too - Elvis was a yes man. He did as he was told, and didn't question it . Sure, we know he moaned about it occasionally, but he didn't do anything about it. So Elvis was just as much to blame as his manager.
This notion that Parker was a feared and respected figure is simply what he wanted people to believe. But was he really? Highly unlikely. Studio bosses had coped with far more dominant forces than Parker. So, while, yes, Parker is saying that it's all about the money - he's also saying that neither he or Elvis have a say in the script. So they DON'T have a big say in a production - which is just as bad as Parker having too much say, in many respects.
And Parker may or may not have been a control freak, but we have to look at the other side of the coin too - Elvis was a yes man. He did as he was told, and didn't question it . Sure, we know he moaned about it occasionally, but he didn't do anything about it. So Elvis was just as much to blame as his manager.
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Re: So How Good An Actor Was Elvis?
Maybe to some he was. To other he was a buffoon, whom Im sure didnt always get his way , and thus Elvis lost out on some good deals and projects. Case in point, Jerry Lieber who told him to you know what over the phone when Parker demanded their services in the 60's.poormadpeter2 wrote:Hang on a minute, we are going down the route again of accepting the various myths and stories that have floated around for years despite looking at the facts. Remember that, while Parker might have advised on film roles (most notably with Wallis), at MGM in particular he would have been told to butt out for the most part and mind his own business. By the Colonel's own admission, neither he nor Elvis had a say in anything: "We don't have approval on scripts - only money," he is quoted as saying in the candid 1964 interview with Variety which can be found in an earlier topic I started here: https://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=82561&p=1279025&hilit=Variety#p1279025 There is no reason to disbelieve this statement - it's not like it's making Parker look good, quite the opposite in fact.
This notion that Parker was a feared and respected figure is simply what he wanted people to believe. But was he really? Highly unlikely. Studio bosses had coped with far more dominant forces than Parker. So, while, yes, Parker is saying that it's all about the money - he's also saying that neither he or Elvis have a say in the script. So they DON'T have a big say in a production - which is just as bad as Parker having too much say, in many respects.
And Parker may or may not have been a control freak, but we have to look at the other side of the coin too - Elvis was a yes man. He did as he was told, and didn't question it . Sure, we know he moaned about it occasionally, but he didn't do anything about it. So Elvis was just as much to blame as his manager.