Elvis 30#1/2 To None Still Relevant?

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The Pirate

Re: Elvis 30#1/2 To None Still Relevant?

#1514741

Post by The Pirate »

trouble_jw wrote:What don't you like about it Pirate?
There is a shocking amount of flutter, mainly noticeable on the piano. I've listened to it on as many different machines as I possibly can, and there's no doubting it. It is, literally, unlistenable. I have to switch it off.



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Re: Elvis 30#1/2 To None Still Relevant?

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Post by TINML »

Juan Luis wrote:David Bendeth had hardly anything to do with the mono stuff which was mastering he did not do. His expertise was in the mixing IIRC. That "Burning Love" mix has not been topped, in my opinion.
Agreed, it really gives my 5.1 setup a work out.

Return To Sender on the other hand is just awful, sounds like a low bit mp3.


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Re: Elvis 30#1/2 To None Still Relevant?

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Post by midnightx »

I am surprised anyone listens to 30 Number 1 Hits anymore. It was a flawed compilation to begin with, not just in terms of sound, but also in terms of content. It has been superseded in a number of ways, and clearly many enthusiasts on this message board can create their own, superior playlists. 30 Number 1 Hits is best forgotten.




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Re: Elvis 30#1/2 To None Still Relevant?

#1514759

Post by minkahed »

skatterbrane wrote:My US version of HitStory has the correct master (spliced) version of A Big Hunk Of Love, and the correct performance of The Wonder Of You, but without the dubbed Nashville vocals and dubbed audience reaction. I still cannot hear the flanging on Suspicious Minds. Am I to expect a "phasing effect" between the channels? The way I understand flanging is when two recordings of the same signal is mixed together but they go in and out of phase with each other causing a sound much like jet engine. Sometimes it is used as a purposeful effect, such as the climax of Tank on ELP's first album. It was quite common in the 60's psychedelic period.


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King Volcano

Re: Elvis 30#1/2 To None Still Relevant?

#1514776

Post by King Volcano »

GibbersGanfa wrote:
Juan Luis wrote:
Eggrert wrote:
Juan Luis wrote:Great mix of "Burning Love" on 30 #1 albeit mastered loud. Great for the car.
Agreed. The mixes of Kentucky Rain, Moody Blue, and Way Down also have something to recommend them.

I'm not a big fan of the track selection on 2nd To None, but 30 #1 Hits is the best non-boxed set intro to Elvis, imo.
Exactly. I remember purchasing around a dozen to give as Christmas presents to friends and family that hadn't one Elvis CD. Great introduction, and kudos to David Bendeth who took a beating from some of us audiophiles. BTW David, if you are reading this (he's a member).. still waiting for unremastered mix CD! :)
In the last decade and a half, to me it feels like there have really been only two releases that still make for the best introductions to Elvis' work to ambivalent listeners: Elvis 30 #1 Hits and The Essential Elvis Presley. Personally, the Essential release seems like the better of the two as it dips into some lesser-known but equally powerful stuff e.g. Polk Salad Annie, Big Boss Man, Reconsider Baby, Mystery Train, Peace in the Valley and so on while still offering a fair chunk of the biggest hits. When you're not stuck to the limitations of "hits" you can actually offer some coverage of the variety of genres Elvis covered.
The 3CD of that Essential Elvis you mention is one of the weirdest, but best introduction releases of recent years. Nice photos but a crappy tight card cover almost impossible to get all the discs out of, CD3 only runs for 25 minutes or something but the other two are pretty filled up. The track listing is great (it even features an untouched 1968 version of A Little Less Conversation praise the Lord) and the sound is loud but fiery and kind of sparkling, which is really good for new listeners. I haven't played it for ages but I remember Polk Salad Annie and Mystery Train in particular ounding fantastic on it when I blasted it around the house after getting it from a bargain bucket.




King Volcano

Re: Elvis 30#1/2 To None Still Relevant?

#1514780

Post by King Volcano »

TINML wrote:
Juan Luis wrote:David Bendeth had hardly anything to do with the mono stuff which was mastering he did not do. His expertise was in the mixing IIRC. That "Burning Love" mix has not been topped, in my opinion.
Agreed, it really gives my 5.1 setup a work out.

Return To Sender on the other hand is just awful, sounds like a low bit mp3.
Return to Sender sounds best on the 1987 All Time Greatest Hits 2CD set. Analogue, plump and wonderful!



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Re: Elvis 30#1/2 To None Still Relevant?

#1514788

Post by trouble_jw »

The Pirate wrote:
trouble_jw wrote:What don't you like about it Pirate?
There is a shocking amount of flutter, mainly noticeable on the piano. I've listened to it on as many different machines as I possibly can, and there's no doubting it. It is, literally, unlistenable. I have to switch it off.
I'll check that out! Never noticed. Does it feature on any other release?
midnightx wrote:I am surprised anyone listens to 30 Number 1 Hits anymore. It was a flawed compilation to begin with, not just in terms of sound, but also in terms of content. It has been superseded in a number of ways, and clearly many enthusiasts on this message board can create their own, superior playlists. 30 Number 1 Hits is best forgotten.
Midnight, do you feel the same about 2nd To None?
King Volcano wrote:
TINML wrote:
Juan Luis wrote:David Bendeth had hardly anything to do with the mono stuff which was mastering he did not do. His expertise was in the mixing IIRC. That "Burning Love" mix has not been topped, in my opinion.
Agreed, it really gives my 5.1 setup a work out.

Return To Sender on the other hand is just awful, sounds like a low bit mp3.
Return to Sender sounds best on the 1987 All Time Greatest Hits 2CD set. Analogue, plump and wonderful!
Yes, it does sound great on that album. Same as 'Return of the rocker' I believe?


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King Volcano

Re: Elvis 30#1/2 To None Still Relevant?

#1514798

Post by King Volcano »

trouble_jw wrote:
The Pirate wrote:
trouble_jw wrote:What don't you like about it Pirate?
There is a shocking amount of flutter, mainly noticeable on the piano. I've listened to it on as many different machines as I possibly can, and there's no doubting it. It is, literally, unlistenable. I have to switch it off.
I'll check that out! Never noticed. Does it feature on any other release?
midnightx wrote:I am surprised anyone listens to 30 Number 1 Hits anymore. It was a flawed compilation to begin with, not just in terms of sound, but also in terms of content. It has been superseded in a number of ways, and clearly many enthusiasts on this message board can create their own, superior playlists. 30 Number 1 Hits is best forgotten.
Midnight, do you feel the same about 2nd To None?
King Volcano wrote:
TINML wrote:
Juan Luis wrote:David Bendeth had hardly anything to do with the mono stuff which was mastering he did not do. His expertise was in the mixing IIRC. That "Burning Love" mix has not been topped, in my opinion.
Agreed, it really gives my 5.1 setup a work out.

Return To Sender on the other hand is just awful, sounds like a low bit mp3.
Return to Sender sounds best on the 1987 All Time Greatest Hits 2CD set. Analogue, plump and wonderful!
Yes, it does sound great on that album. Same as 'Return of the rocker' I believe?
I always thought I'd find Return of the Rocker in a bucket one day but I never did. Only ever saw it at Elvis fairs for high prices. Most other "rare" old / early Presley CDs that interested me I came across for absolute peanuts in used stores.




The Pirate

Re: Elvis 30#1/2 To None Still Relevant?

#1514799

Post by The Pirate »

trouble_jw wrote:
The Pirate wrote:
trouble_jw wrote:What don't you like about it Pirate?
There is a shocking amount of flutter, mainly noticeable on the piano. I've listened to it on as many different machines as I possibly can, and there's no doubting it. It is, literally, unlistenable. I have to switch it off.
I'll check that out! Never noticed. Does it feature on any other release?
I can't say for certain that it doesn't, but I've never noticed it myself. It originated on this release, I believe, and so it may have been carried over to another compilation after. I don't think it's on the USA "corrected" version, either.



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Re: Elvis 30#1/2 To None Still Relevant?

#1514826

Post by DayVee Bee »

midnightx wrote:...do you think Elvis 30 #1 Hits is a well-produced, sequenced, good compilation?
As far as I am aware, the sequencing was simply chronological & the songs were all good :facep:
So that just leaves the production as "an issue" :lol:
Or am I missing something? :?


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Juan Luis

Re: Elvis 30#1/2 To None Still Relevant?

#1514839

Post by Juan Luis »

DayVee Bee wrote:
midnightx wrote:...do you think Elvis 30 #1 Hits is a well-produced, sequenced, good compilation?
As far as I am aware, the sequencing was simply chronological & the songs were all good :facep:
So that just leaves the production as "an issue" :lol:
Or am I missing something? :?
I do not think so. Ernst Jorgensen was consultant /historian for the project, IIRC. I must have purchased a dozen or more for friends, family, that were not ever going to have another Elvis CD by their own effort. This did a great job. Most enjoyed it and play it to this day. Kool!




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Re: Elvis 30#1/2 To None Still Relevant?

#1514884

Post by David Bendeth »

Heartbreak Hotel was a mono recording, so I did nothing, good to be back, lol.
The Pirate wrote:
TINML wrote:
David Bendeth wrote:I like the 5.1 the best, no additives, just simple.
I'd second this Mr Bendeth, welcome back!
Maybe, now that he's here, he can explain what on earth led him to sign off on perhaps the worst sounding Heartbreak Hotel ever?




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Re: Elvis 30#1/2 To None Still Relevant?

#1514885

Post by David Bendeth »

I do, but then again I am bias. I think with every compilation going back 60 years and 31 songs things will get complex when you also add mixing into the equation. I really feel the "elitist" mentality is somewhat unfulfilling when it comes to opinions on music. I think my main beef is why some people feel their opinion is gospel, especially when they have no qualifications. Music is meant to be enjoyed, not picked to shreds, It is not a contest. Historical expertise is best exercised by people that do not have time to actually listen, they hear with their eyes.

midnightx wrote:
Hard Rocker wrote:It's very telling that last week you were dismissing Way Down In The Jungle Room because (according to you!) it hadn't sold enough. (Mind you, the record company keeps putting them out!) This week, you're dismissing the biggest selling hits compilation of the Presley career, an international global sensation and a number one smash hit all over the planet. I'll give you this: when it comes to "no substance" and "tired drivel", you're an absolute expert.
You still haven't answered a very simple question. After all your attempted insults, misguided interpretations, and erroneous statements, you still cannot answer one very simple question: regardless of the sales figures, do you think Elvis 30 #1 Hits is a well-produced, sequenced, good compilation? Why is that?



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Re: Elvis 30#1/2 To None Still Relevant?

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Post by trouble_jw »

David Bendeth wrote:I do, but then again I am bias. I think with every compilation going back 60 years and 31 songs things will get complex when you also add mixing into the equation. I really feel the "elitist" mentality is somewhat unfulfilling when it comes to opinions on music. I think my main beef is why some people feel their opinion is gospel, especially when they have no qualifications. Music is meant to be enjoyed, not picked to shreds, It is not a contest. Historical expertise is best exercised by people that do not have time to actually listen, they hear with their eyes.
I for one love both 30 No.1s and 2nd To None. I enjoy the sound on them and have done since day one. I thank you David for giving me many, many hours of enjoyment on listening to these albums.

I was always hoping for a third title to complete a trology and was disappointed when Hitstory was released with tracks that were not newly mixed and mastered.


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Re: Elvis 30#1/2 To None Still Relevant?

#1514965

Post by midnightx »

trouble_jw wrote: Midnight, do you feel the same about 2nd To None?
2nd To None did not have the same controversial sound issues. It was a relatively good compilation that filled in some gaps and was a decent companion piece for the 30 #1 Hits comp. Nevertheless, it presently serves little purpose for Elvis enthusiasts with sizable collections.



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Re: Elvis 30#1/2 To None Still Relevant?

#1514975

Post by midnightx »

David Bendeth wrote:I do, but then again I am bias. I think with every compilation going back 60 years and 31 songs things will get complex when you also add mixing into the equation. I really feel the "elitist" mentality is somewhat unfulfilling when it comes to opinions on music. I think my main beef is why some people feel their opinion is gospel, especially when they have no qualifications. Music is meant to be enjoyed, not picked to shreds, It is not a contest. Historical expertise is best exercised by people that do not have time to actually listen, they hear with their eyes.

midnightx wrote:
Hard Rocker wrote:It's very telling that last week you were dismissing Way Down In The Jungle Room because (according to you!) it hadn't sold enough. (Mind you, the record company keeps putting them out!) This week, you're dismissing the biggest selling hits compilation of the Presley career, an international global sensation and a number one smash hit all over the planet. I'll give you this: when it comes to "no substance" and "tired drivel", you're an absolute expert.
You still haven't answered a very simple question. After all your attempted insults, misguided interpretations, and erroneous statements, you still cannot answer one very simple question: regardless of the sales figures, do you think Elvis 30 #1 Hits is a well-produced, sequenced, good compilation? Why is that?
At least the producer of the set has the courage to answer the question, unlike others who aggressively support the release through snide remarks and personal attacks against others, yet who are unable to explain why they think it is a good compilation other than it being a sales success. Mr. Bendeth, it is also no surprise that you defend your work; it is understandable that you would stand by the creative decisions, particularly for an album that was a major sales success. That said, high sales does not naturally equal quality. Some of the remixes were interesting, but were they appropriate? And you are correct, music is not a contest. But that is not the issue here. In general, music is important and very meaningful. Elvis Presley is one of the most important artists in contemporary music history, and it goes without saying that a mainstream release that purports to represent his greatest commercial achievements is going to be scrutinized in terms of content and sound. It is no different with other artists as well, as I am sure you know. You did not emphasize presenting historically accurate mixes in the best possible mastering; you attempted to rewrite history and present sonic upgrades that in some instances deviated from the original magic of the recordings. You attempted to modernize the sound to appeal to casual consumers in the early-2000's, not to present authentic Elvis recordings for celebration and posterity. At the end of the day, the project did what it was supposed to do in terms of sales, and you certainly have the support of a handful of Elvis fan-boys who blindly support product as long as it sells, but you did not create a great Elvis release in terms of content-decisions and sound quality that will stand the test of time. Nevertheless, congratulations on being part of the team for one of the biggest selling single disc Elvis Presley projects.




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Re: Elvis 30#1/2 To None Still Relevant?

#1514993

Post by David Bendeth »

Historically speaking, on record, I worked with what I was given, and what was released was approved, I do not see any disclaimers on the credits, do you Midnightx? Maybe you have a copy no one else has?
Last edited by David Bendeth on Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.




Hard Rocker

Re: Elvis 30#1/2 To None Still Relevant?

#1514996

Post by Hard Rocker »

Great post David. By the way, have you any idea of the total world sales for Elv1s?



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Re: Elvis 30#1/2 To None Still Relevant?

#1515009

Post by midnightx »

David Bendeth wrote:Historically speaking, on record, I worked with what I was given, and what was released was approved...
Way to pass off responsibility, almost as if you were a victim in the process. Were you also given remixes, or was that your work?
David Bendeth wrote:I do not see any disclaimers on the credits, do you Midnightx? Maybe you have a copy no one else has?
Disclaimers for what?
David Bendeth wrote:No need to repeat 14 years of history here, Yes there were non intentional versions used, but Midnight is right, although I have no idea why he even listened to E1 it is way out of his wheelhouse historically and musically. What i do find interesting though, is he is quite silent about the dozens of other faux pas on some of these other records released, and by the same team, interesting.
Being that you said there were no disclaimers, how was I supposed to know that the CD contained manipulated, revisionist mixes? Did it say that anywhere in the packaging or on the front or back covers? Perhaps that information was in some pre-release interviews in Billboard or on Elvis fan-sites that I missed, or that I no longer recall? On the surface, I thought a single disc compilation celebrating Elvis' number one hits was an intriguing concept on the heels of Beatles1, and looked forward to supporting such a concept. Additionally, up until that time, the sound quality of many Elvis releases during the Artist of The Century reissue campaign had been very uneven, often courtesy of Dennis Ferrante, so the idea of a remastered disc of Presley gold also had appeal. And for the record, I have never been "silent" on other releases containing questionable mixing and mastering, perhaps you could provide some examples to the contrary?
David Bendeth wrote:Yes this record was made for mass consumption and yes it was not made for Elvis historians and so called "experts" and there are many, like a contest.
Since you brought up "disclaimers," I did not see any disclaimers anywhere as part of the product asserting that the CD in question was "not made for Elvis historians and so-called 'experts.'" Perhaps, the CD was produced for "all" consumers? Or are you admitting that you intentionally dumbed-down the product?
David Bendeth wrote:The real Truth is you always had the original master Midnightx, what did you care about this record?
See above.
David Bendeth wrote:It was made for the people, people who like music and thats exactly what I did with the tools I was given.
That is a significant generalization. All people? Again, it appears that you attempted to modernize the sound to appeal to casual consumers in the early-2000's. Your agenda was not to present authentic Elvis recordings for celebration and posterity for all, but to provide a group of "people," and particular consumer-base with something more commercially appealing circa 2000. You keep referring to the "tools you were given" as if you were forced into manipulating the recordings -- you made a conscious choice to manipulate as many recordings as you could to distort the historical record, to achieve a particular sonic presentation. That was the philosophy you adopted, regardless if others were co-conspirators in the process. At least own it.
David Bendeth wrote:You were not there, so you will never know, I was, and so was the estate. I am sure they had no problem with it. In regards to Junkie xl mix, that was not on the original books either, but I am sure you had no problem with that one. There is no need to be condescending here, we can all love music in harmony, even when we disagree, we can do it with some dignity and compassion.
Do you think noting that EPE was supportive adds any credibility to your cause? Of course EPE was supportive -- and let's be honest, has there ever been a gimmick that EPE didn't like? Does Viva Elvis ring a bell? And as far as your plea for not being condescending, perhaps you did not read your post to me, because it was both condescending and obnoxious. I gave you a sincere congratulations on a commercially successful project, regardless of the issues and/or concerns I pointed out, yet you went on an attack. Why not lead by example? No need to by a hypocrite.




poormadpeter2

Re: Elvis 30#1/2 To None Still Relevant?

#1515100

Post by poormadpeter2 »

Whether or not one approves of the remixes or versions used or anything else about the released, it managed to do what has not been done since, which is build upon and capitalise on a moment when Elvis was suddenly thrust back into the spotlight thanks to the remix of A Little Less Conversation. No official product since resulted in sales of anything like this amount, and most casual buyers who bought the CD wouldn't know or care whether something sounded a bit different here or there. Why the remixes occurred and why there were some versions substituted for others is water under the bridge fourteen years on, but it is certainly true to say that Elv1s, for any faults it may have had, not only continued the Elvis momentum but increased it - and without the sales it achieved I very much doubt that there would have been sequels or, more importantly, faith enough in potential sales to release the deluxe 68 comeback and Aloha DVD sets. I find it all rather hypocritical that so much effort is made pulling this achievement to bits because of remixes some do not approve of and substituted versions of songs on a disc made for the general public, when products are defended time and time again for similar issues when they are made solely for the collector's who actually DO give a damn about such things.




poormadpeter2

Re: Elvis 30#1/2 To None Still Relevant?

#1515113

Post by poormadpeter2 »

jungleroombear wrote:<snip>
FECC Team Note: The members in question are definitely not the same person. Without going into great detail lets just say they would need VERY long arms to pull something like that off. We (The moderators and administrators) have repeatedly tried to dispel this myth for quite a while. Some would rather believe a lie which borders on being a pretty zany conspiracy theory, than the truth. With that being said please stay on topic. The topic is "Elvis 30#1/2 To None Still Relevant?". Not "so and so are the same person" and not another "Lets personally attack people that don't think the way we do" post. This sadly has been occurring way too much lately and if it continues suspensions will be given. At this point we have given many more warnings than we should have in hopes that this behaviour would stop without us having to resort to that.
To be fair to MidnightX, I really don't think he and the Doc are one and the same.



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Re: Elvis 30#1/2 To None Still Relevant?

#1515126

Post by midnightx »

poormadpeter2 wrote:Whether or not one approves of the remixes or versions used or anything else about the released, it managed to do what has not been done since, which is build upon and capitalise on a moment when Elvis was suddenly thrust back into the spotlight thanks to the remix of A Little Less Conversation.
Correct, it was a great opportunity with almost perfect timing to capitalize on the success of the JXL remix of A Little Less Conversation; and there was no need for remixes, audio manipulation, and the use of alternate takes. Those elements were not what drove the sales of 30 #1 Hits, so there is no reason to condone and justify their use because they were unnecessary. A somewhat superior track-listing and use of historically accurate mixes and versions would have sold just the same.




poormadpeter2

Re: Elvis 30#1/2 To None Still Relevant?

#1515132

Post by poormadpeter2 »

midnightx wrote:
poormadpeter2 wrote:Whether or not one approves of the remixes or versions used or anything else about the released, it managed to do what has not been done since, which is build upon and capitalise on a moment when Elvis was suddenly thrust back into the spotlight thanks to the remix of A Little Less Conversation.
Correct, it was a great opportunity with almost perfect timing to capitalize on the success of the JXL remix of A Little Less Conversation; and there was no need for remixes, audio manipulation, and the use of alternate takes. Those elements were not what drove the sales of 30 #1 Hits, so there is no reason to condone and justify their use because they were unnecessary. A somewhat superior track-listing and use of historically accurate mixes and versions would have sold just the same.

But the problem is it doesn't matter. It happened thirteen years ago. I'm sure FTDs would sell the same if they didn't have tapes at the wrong speed, conspicuous editing, songs substituted by mistake, and mastering errors - but you're not hauling them over the coals.




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Re: Elvis 30#1/2 To None Still Relevant?

#1515138

Post by Juan Luis »

midnightx wrote:
poormadpeter2 wrote:Whether or not one approves of the remixes or versions used or anything else about the released, it managed to do what has not been done since, which is build upon and capitalise on a moment when Elvis was suddenly thrust back into the spotlight thanks to the remix of A Little Less Conversation.
Correct, it was a great opportunity with almost perfect timing to capitalize on the success of the JXL remix of A Little Less Conversation; and there was no need for remixes, audio manipulation, and the use of alternate takes. Those elements were not what drove the sales of 30 #1 Hits, so there is no reason to condone and justify their use because they were unnecessary. A somewhat superior track-listing and use of historically accurate mixes and versions would have sold just the same.
No. It was also sold on modern mixing/mastering. That was part of the advertising. Otherwise they didn't have to hire David Bendeth. The label asked him to do a job. He did it. It sold like wildfire, sounded great on Lilo & Stitch in the theaters. Good time to be a fan. On the other hand, this caused more awareness of the originals to their benefit. To the benefit of Elvis' recorded legacy. The tangible awarenes$, opened the doors to the engineers under Ernst Jorgensen that have added Kevan, Sebastian, Vic (also label), and others to the better sound of the originals and keep the Elvis drip of releases open, and profitable. Can't complain one bit.



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Re: Elvis 30#1/2 To None Still Relevant?

#1515140

Post by midnightx »

poormadpeter2 wrote:
midnightx wrote:
poormadpeter2 wrote:Whether or not one approves of the remixes or versions used or anything else about the released, it managed to do what has not been done since, which is build upon and capitalise on a moment when Elvis was suddenly thrust back into the spotlight thanks to the remix of A Little Less Conversation.
Correct, it was a great opportunity with almost perfect timing to capitalize on the success of the JXL remix of A Little Less Conversation; and there was no need for remixes, audio manipulation, and the use of alternate takes. Those elements were not what drove the sales of 30 #1 Hits, so there is no reason to condone and justify their use because they were unnecessary. A somewhat superior track-listing and use of historically accurate mixes and versions would have sold just the same.

But the problem is it doesn't matter. It happened thirteen years ago. I'm sure FTDs would sell the same if they didn't have tapes at the wrong speed, conspicuous editing, songs substituted by mistake, and mastering errors - but you're not hauling them over the coals.
I have been critical of FTD project on a number of occasions, so you are incorrect. That being said, it is apples to oranges because no FTD product has been designed to promote the recording legacy in the way 30 #1 Hits was designed to, or to reach millions of consumers worldwide, possibly as the only Elvis title some consumers would ultimately have in their music collections.


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