"Way Down...In The Jungle Room" 2 CD/LP in august.

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Re: "Way Down...In The Jungle Room" 2 CD/LP in august.

#1518756

Post by midnightx »

It is safe to conclude that many "reviewers" reviewing the "Way Down..." compilation for various entertainment outlets are not overly familiar with Elvis' body of work in general, let alone the details and circumstances surrounding the 1976 period. That is another reason why the historically inaccurate, whitewashed liner-notes are such a problem; they are essentially used as reference material which ultimately contributes to the distortion of the historical record.



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"Way Down...In The Jungle Room" 2 CD/LP in august.

#1518758

Post by Fabbe »

The distortion comes when you know the historic record - because that impact how you hear. That is why it is even better reviewers were not familiar they are more objective on evaluating the session output


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#1518764

Post by midnightx »

Fabbe wrote:The distortion comes when you know the historic record - because that impact how you hear. That is why it is even better reviewers were not familiar they are more objective on evaluating the session output
Not when reviewers who are unfamiliar with Elvis' entire body of work and unfamiliar with the 1976 period refer to erroneous liner notes for source material as a guide -- that does not lend to objectivity, the reviewers are still relying on something to influence and inform their approach to absorbing the material, in this instance, they are relying on falsehoods.




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Re: "Way Down...In The Jungle Room" 2 CD/LP in august.

#1518765

Post by Juan Luis »

No one needs a guide to listen to a piece of work to come to the conclusion that they like it or not.



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Re: "Way Down...In The Jungle Room" 2 CD/LP in august.

#1518766

Post by Fabbe »

midnightx wrote:
Fabbe wrote:The distortion comes when you know the historic record - because that impact how you hear. That is why it is even better reviewers were not familiar they are more objective on evaluating the session output
Not when reviewers who are unfamiliar with Elvis' entire body of work and unfamiliar with the 1976 period refer to erroneous liner notes for source material as a guide -- that does not lend to objectivity, the reviewers are still relying on something to influence and inform their approach to absorbing the material, in this instance, they are relying on falsehoods.
they are relaying - like us - on many things not only liner notes


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Re: "Way Down...In The Jungle Room" 2 CD/LP in august.

#1518771

Post by TINML »

Juan Luis wrote:No one needs a guide to listen to a piece of work to come to the conclusion that they like it or not.
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Re:

#1518820

Post by King Volcano »

Fabbe wrote:
midnightx wrote:
Fabbe wrote:The distortion comes when you know the historic record - because that impact how you hear. That is why it is even better reviewers were not familiar they are more objective on evaluating the session output
Not when reviewers who are unfamiliar with Elvis' entire body of work and unfamiliar with the 1976 period refer to erroneous liner notes for source material as a guide -- that does not lend to objectivity, the reviewers are still relying on something to influence and inform their approach to absorbing the material, in this instance, they are relying on falsehoods.
they are relaying - like us - on many things not only liner notes
Nobody worth their salt gives a sh*t about liner essay notes anyway. They should be read once or not at all and then ignored for the rest of time. There's more interest to be had from amazon reviews than any liner note... from people mostly writing about the item or artist because they want to, not because they're on an ego trip or are being paid to..




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Re: Re:

#1519074

Post by King Volcano »

Fabbe wrote:
midnightx wrote:
Fabbe wrote:The distortion comes when you know the historic record - because that impact how you hear. That is why it is even better reviewers were not familiar they are more objective on evaluating the session output
Not when reviewers who are unfamiliar with Elvis' entire body of work and unfamiliar with the 1976 period refer to erroneous liner notes for source material as a guide -- that does not lend to objectivity, the reviewers are still relying on something to influence and inform their approach to absorbing the material, in this instance, they are relying on falsehoods.
they are relaying - like us - on many things not only liner notes

And any reviewer who does what midnightx describes is 100% incompetent anyway and not worth reading or considering in the first place. In these information everywhere times, if anyone is basing their paid reviewing work on a bit of biased booklet paper commissioned by the record label for a CD, they should be doing other work.



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Re: "Way Down...In The Jungle Room" 2 CD/LP in august.

#1519352

Post by mike edwards66 »

Channeling Elvis wrote:
poormadpeter2 wrote:If you then put those two issues together (younger critics without real knowledge of the sessions hearing the music for the first time + positive liner notes) then I think that's where you get the more positive reviews.
I used to write reviews for "Goldmine" and agree with you. Imagine a very young critic.......
Hang on a minute. So now we are trying to explain away the great reviews by saying they come from young critics. How young are we talking, 16? 17? 20? Without even checking, gentlemen. That's bollocks.

Juan Luis wrote:No one needs a guide to listen to a piece of work to come to the conclusion that they like it or not.
Ah, fresh air.

King Volcano wrote:Nobody worth their salt gives a sh*t about liner essay notes anyway.
That's true. And when was the last time anybody read 'em before playing the CD. Never.


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Re: "Way Down...In The Jungle Room" 2 CD/LP in august.

#1519370

Post by elvisjock »

Another review, this time from someone who gets it:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/jungle-boogie#WKmQhWG5hztbcqvj.97


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Re: "Way Down...In The Jungle Room" 2 CD/LP in august.

#1519375

Post by Z0S0 »

well i have to admit, i had a total lack of interest in this release - maybe even contempt !
but having gone thru the out-takes at least 6/7 times i am VERY impressed !

They have done a marvelous job on the remixing, clearly knocking up the faders in-between takes , the dialogue is much clearer & in some cases makes more sense !

im almost dumbfounded as to why or how - i dont imagine any form of pro-tools/auto-tune was used on his vocal , im presuming its all down to the mixing but these sessions have NEVER sounded this good !
we all thought it with the original FTD JRS but he truly sounds far far better here than ever before

i havnt listened to the masters yet - just the out-takes but WOW !
i eat my hat & it just goes to show that despite being very cynical you can be proven wrong !


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Re: "Way Down...In The Jungle Room" 2 CD/LP in august.

#1519380

Post by norrie »

Z0S0 wrote:well i have to admit, i had a total lack of interest in this release - maybe even contempt !
but having gone thru the out-takes at least 6/7 times i am VERY impressed !

They have done a marvelous job on the remixing, clearly knocking up the faders in-between takes , the dialogue is much clearer & in some cases makes more sense !

im almost dumbfounded as to why or how - i dont imagine any form of pro-tools/auto-tune was used on his vocal , im presuming its all down to the mixing but these sessions have NEVER sounded this good !
we all thought it with the original FTD JRS but he truly sounds far far better here than ever before

i havnt listened to the masters yet - just the out-takes but WOW !
i eat my hat & it just goes to show that despite being very cynical you can be proven wrong !

Of course you're only saying this because you read the liner notes :D

norrie



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Re: "Way Down...In The Jungle Room" 2 CD/LP in august.

#1519432

Post by JamieAKelley »

Z0S0 wrote:well i have to admit, i had a total lack of interest in this release - maybe even contempt !
but having gone thru the out-takes at least 6/7 times i am VERY impressed !

They have done a marvelous job on the remixing, clearly knocking up the faders in-between takes , the dialogue is much clearer & in some cases makes more sense !

im almost dumbfounded as to why or how - i dont imagine any form of pro-tools/auto-tune was used on his vocal , im presuming its all down to the mixing but these sessions have NEVER sounded this good !
we all thought it with the original FTD JRS but he truly sounds far far better here than ever before

i havnt listened to the masters yet - just the out-takes but WOW !
i eat my hat & it just goes to show that despite being very cynical you can be proven wrong !
Mostly, it's due to the 2nd disc being mixed by a VERY unique ear, one that is playing with the soundspace in a way that most who work on Elvis releases don't. To be fair, most are going for historical content instead of overall sound-shaping (generally speaking), and this is definitely going in the other direction.. but for a pure listening experience, it works wonders. This man should be the one to do an undubbed box set, imo.

As for that last article.. as many times as he's right, he's also slavish to the general "conventional wisdom". And I actually kinda like that the liner notes didn't do the often-trod "final gasp of air" stuff. That colors what you hear as much as anything else does - that conventional wisdom certainly has for all of us, to varrying degrees. It's certainly more sugary than it needed to be, but I honestly don't mind it.


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Re: "Way Down...In The Jungle Room" 2 CD/LP in august.

#1519576

Post by sweetangeline »

FYI...U.S sales approximately 14,000 copies now...scroll down to October 21;

http://hitsdailydouble.com/new_album_releases



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Re: "Way Down...In The Jungle Room" 2 CD/LP in august.

#1519610

Post by jeanno »

I thing that the article from "stereophile" is really honest and truthful. For a change.



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Re: "Way Down...In The Jungle Room" 2 CD/LP in august.

#1519620

Post by Fabbe »

jeanno wrote:I thing that the article from "stereophile" is really honest and truthful. For a change.
it is an opinion - like all the others.



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Re: "Way Down...In The Jungle Room" 2 CD/LP in august.

#1519626

Post by JamieAKelley »

jeanno wrote:I thing that the article from "stereophile" is really honest and truthful. For a change.
For a change? You mean most accounts of the time are happy and all-good? I beg to differ. Most accounts are truthful overall but slanting negative - whether for narrative reasons (given that he died in '77) or coloring from what others have said about the session and/or time period.

I'd put this article in that category. The author seems to have wished RCA market this as "Elvis on his deathbed" (I'm intentionally overstating a bit there for effect, pardon me) and has, to a small but noticeable point, gone after what he sees as inaccuracies in the liner notes. To be fair, there are a decent share of them to point out... which made this first one surprising:
Jackson starts with a blatant error when he references Elvis’ “breakout on RCA Records twenty years earlier,” (his Sun recordings is where it all began)
The author thinks this is an error because they're looking for them, but that's not necessarily the case: "breakout on RCA" could just mean his more national breakout on the RCA label, not his start in music. Given that Jackson was at the EPE event with Ernst touting "The Boy From Tupelo" it's not like he didn't know that the Sun years existed.

Due to a certain amount of "social backlash" from years of spit-polished PR from media, government, etc, negativity has been (over time) given the seeming societal badge of being "more honest," simply because "the negative must be true." Not that Elvis' life at this point was any picnic, but certainly not every day was an addled spiral into death. Nice things and good things did still happen, if even from time to time and even if it wasn't the norm (we don't totally know, really, even now).

And I say all of this not as a defense of the liner notes, but a rebuke of the "negative is honesty" policy that seems to swirl around Elvis' later years. Not that I know exactly where the "line" is, but I've seen it permeate certain parts of Elvis' life and color some of his music to the point where, as a fan, I'm ready to start pushing back against that a bit. As one of the comments on that article says, "For instance those "Memphis Sessions", take a look at that studio. Does it look high tech? Just a simple little building in a bad part of town. Yet the results were magic. And if it's a bad thing to have a recording truck parked behind the house, don't tell Robert Plant and Jimmy Page about that." I don't agree with the very next line of their comment after what I quoted, but this part I definitely agreed with.
Last edited by JamieAKelley on Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: "Way Down...In The Jungle Room" 2 CD/LP in august.

#1519627

Post by Fabbe »

JamieAKelley wrote:
jeanno wrote:I thing that the article from "stereophile" is really honest and truthful. For a change.
For a change? You mean most accounts of the time are happy and all-good? I beg to differ. Most accounts are truthful overall but slanting negative - whether for narrative reasons (given that he died in '77) or coloring from what others have said about the session and/or time period.

I'd put this article in that category. The author seems to have wished RCA market this as "Elvis on his deathbed" (I'm intentionally overstating a bit there for effect, pardon me) and has, to a small but noticeable point, gone after what he sees as inaccuracies in the article. To be fair, there are a decent share of them to point out... which made this first one surprising:
Jackson starts with a blatant error when he references Elvis’ “breakout on RCA Records twenty years earlier,” (his Sun recordings is where it all began)
The author thinks this is an error because they're looking for them, but that's not necessarily the case: "breakout on RCA" could just mean his more national breakout on the RCA label, not his start in music. Given that Jackson was at the EPE event with Ernst touting "The Boy From Tupelo" it's not like he didn't know that the Sun years existed.

Due to a certain amount of "social backlash" from years of spit-polished PR from media, government, etc, negativity has been (over time) given the seeming societal badge of being "more honest," simply because "the negative must be true." Not that Elvis' life at this point was any picnic, but certainly not every day was an addled spiral into death. Nice things and good things did still happen, if even from time to time and even if it wasn't the norm (we don't totally know, really, even now).

And I say all of this not as a defense of the liner notes, but a rebuke of the "negative is honesty" policy that seems to swirl around Elvis' later years. Not that I know exactly where the "line" is, but I've seen it permeate certain parts of Elvis' life and color some of his music to the point where, as a fan, I'm ready to start pushing back against that a bit. As one of the comments on that article says, "For instance those "Memphis Sessions", take a look at that studio. Does it look high tech? Just a simple little building in a bad part of town. Yet the results were magic. And if it's a bad thing to have a recording truck parked behind the house, don't tell Robert Plant and Jimmy Page about that." I don't agree with the very next line of their comment after what I quoted, but this part I definitely agreed with.
True - we don't need to be color blind. I think it is natural that when a person reads something that matches his or her opinion think it is more reliable or true. People tend to believe (or give higher consideration) what supports their opinions.



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Re: "Way Down...In The Jungle Room" 2 CD/LP in august.

#1519629

Post by JamieAKelley »

Fabbe wrote:True - we don't need to be color blind. I think it is natural that when a person reads something that matches his or her opinion think it is more reliable or true. People tend to believe (or give higher consideration) what supports their opinions.
To be fair, I don't think that's it so much. For years, all the fans got for info (mostly) was PR spun by Col. Parker, and he kept things squeaky clean. It's why some fans didn't think he even swore for the longest time. When the stories started coming out, they tended to be slanted VERY negatively for a lot of reasons - between it countering Elvis clean image, ratings, and a growing consensus (esp. after things like Watergate) that the more negative tales were more true. That's still in play today, I feel. Over time, it's become a bit more sympathetic where Elvis is concerned, but there's still a sort of "after '75 it was all negative all the time". Elvis could say something in 1969 and "it's great"; he says the same thing in '76 and "it's the drugs talking".

Not saying that 80% of it isn't accurate.. often, I'm sure it is. But there's a tendency for negativity to be seen as "honesty" that strikes me as wrong. I understand the decades-long reasons behind it, but still see it as a problem... and not just with Elvis. It's a larger societal thing. Notice you don't see anyone taking the positive point calling themselves "the realist," for instance.
Last edited by JamieAKelley on Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: "Way Down...In The Jungle Room" 2 CD/LP in august.

#1519630

Post by Fabbe »

JamieAKelley wrote:
Fabbe wrote:True - we don't need to be color blind. I think it is natural that when a person reads something that matches his or her opinion think it is more reliable or true. People tend to believe (or give higher consideration) what supports their opinions.
To be fair, I don't think that's it so much. For years, all the fans got for info (mostly) was PR spun by Col. Parker, and he kept things squeaky clean. It's why some fans didn't think he even swore for the longest time. When the stories started coming out, they tended to be slanted VERY negatively for a lot of reasons - between it countering Elvis clean image, ratings, and a growing consensus (esp. after things like Watergate) that the more negative tales were more true. That's still in play today, I feel. Over time, it's become a bit more sympathetic where Elvis is concerned, but there's still a sort of "after '75 it was all negative all the time". Elvis could say something in 1969 and "it's great"; he says the same thing in '76 and "it's the drugs talking".

Not saying that 80% of it isn't accurate.. often, I'm sure it is. But there's a tendency for negativity to be seen as "honesty" that strikes me as wrong. I understand the decades-long reasons behind it, but still see it as a problem.
I think you have a point there!



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Re: "Way Down...In The Jungle Room" 2 CD/LP in august.

#1519631

Post by JamieAKelley »

Hehe, sorry - I was re-editing my post as you were replying, lol

Thank you, btw.


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Re: "Way Down...In The Jungle Room" 2 CD/LP in august.

#1519632

Post by jetblack »

opinion
əˈpɪnjən/
noun
plural noun: opinions

1.
a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.


Too many try to push THEIR opinions onto others as the final word.

The only opinion that should count is one's own.

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Re: "Way Down...In The Jungle Room" 2 CD/LP in august.

#1519635

Post by Davelee »

YDKM wrote::D :shock: :wtf: i was 100% amazed to just read in man and music #123 Trevor Cajiao's comments about this release~!... it all 1976 material.... and he says how great it is, how strong and vibrant Elvis's vocals are and so on? Geez.. one has to wonder if HIS Grandma brought out the Booze whilst he was listening :wtf: ... because YES''' its very good', but i do find his 'review' a bit over the top and overly positive(especially considering these are Elvis's very last 'studio' type recordings! :wtf:
Don't know why you're so surprised about Trev's review - hes always honest in his reviews. Maybe you have a little booze when you praise every 75/76/77 show....

I, too, not being much of a 70s Elvis fan was pleasantly suprised with this CD, i took a chance and bought it 3 days ago and disc two is quite nice. All those songs without cloth-eared Feltons overdubs was a listening pleasure, not out of this world, but they were nice and i can see myself playing it every now and then, disc 2 is better then the masters.

If i had written a review for this CD i would have said the same thing as Trevor.



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Re: "Way Down...In The Jungle Room" 2 CD/LP in august.

#1519641

Post by elvisjock »

Jamie, that was very well-put. Jackson does go overboard in painting with positive strokes, but the fact is the Jungle Room Sessions endure. As time marches on, they are remembered more fondly, especially by the people that were there. Some of the best later period stories center around the February and October sessions - going upstairs and receiving gifts of clothing, riding on the new motorcycles. In hindsight, an opportunity was missed, in that the recording venue was seen as a hindrance, rather than as an opportunity to showcase the novel approach of Elvis cutting songs at Graceland.


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Re: "Way Down...In The Jungle Room" 2 CD/LP in august.

#1519777

Post by JamieAKelley »

elvisjock wrote:Jamie, that was very well-put. Jackson does go overboard in painting with positive strokes, but the fact is the Jungle Room Sessions endure. As time marches on, they are remembered more fondly, especially by the people that were there. Some of the best later period stories center around the February and October sessions - going upstairs and receiving gifts of clothing, riding on the new motorcycles. In hindsight, an opportunity was missed, in that the recording venue was seen as a hindrance, rather than as an opportunity to showcase the novel approach of Elvis cutting songs at Graceland.
I'd agree with that. Part of it is timing; if he'd been cutting there since, say, '73 or maybe even earlier, Elvis may have eventually done the "hey I feel like recording" and just put something down for a band to play with later, or any number of things. But so much of what was around Elvis just wasn't conducive for artistic creativity, and Elvis' various mental band-aids for loneliness didn't help. But then, if he could have truly found someone to connect with, everything would have been a different story... so there's that.

As it stands, I have several ways I look at his music: First, on the songs themselves, just as a listening experience on their own merits; second, in Elvis' personal historical context; third, in the larger historical context. While the latter two will always have importance, I like that most reviews can show the first of these still having a place at the table, and if the liner notes, PR driven as they are, can perhaps freshen or give a new way to approach the listening experience (divorced from the latter two contexts) then I'm ok with it, overall.

If that makes any sense.


Sincerely,
Jamie

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(geek - yeah, you heard me.)

http://www.jamiekelleymusic.com

New CD - ALL ORIGINAL SONGS! Adult Contemporary/Light Rock/Pop/More
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/jamiekelley
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