BOXCAR Releasing New Book Elvis on Television (1956-1960)

[MikeFromHolland]

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A nice docu to accompany reading the book was just posted on YouTube by artfrob:

Elvis "the Television Years"



BONUS

By the same poster:

Elvis" the Memphis Years"


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Those 2 videos are from this excellent 2002, 8-DVD - 16 hour Box set.

Cool!!! I hope artfrob will post the other ones as well

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[Chris Roberts]

I shall forever have a soft spot for Bill Haley, my first rock hero during my formative 10/11th years.

[Channeling Elvis]

Elvis made Bill Haley look like your Uncle

That's almost exactly what Ringo Starr once told me. He recalled listening to Johnny Ray, Frankie Laine and other singers and then particularly caught on to Bill Haley and his mid-50s hits. "But", he said "once you saw Elvis, Bill Haley looked like your dad."

[Chris Roberts]

Elvis made Bill Haley look like your Uncle

That's almost exactly what Ringo Starr once told me. He recalled listening to Johnny Ray, Frankie Laine and other singers and then particularly caught on to Bill Haley and his mid-50s hits. "But", he said "once you saw Elvis, Bill Haley looked like your dad."

Very true. Bill Haley was the first king of rock'n'roll, but once Elvis Presley entered the scene, he very quickly took over that title, Leaving Bill affectionately known as the Father of rock'n'roll.

[MikeFromHolland]

Elvis made Bill Haley look like your Uncle

That's almost exactly what Ringo Starr once told me. He recalled listening to Johnny Ray, Frankie Laine and other singers and then particularly caught on to Bill Haley and his mid-50s hits. "But", he said "once you saw Elvis, Bill Haley looked like your dad."

Very true. Bill Haley was the first king of rock'n'roll, but once Elvis Presley entered the scene, he very quickly took over that title, Leaving Bill affectionately known as the Father of rock'n'roll.

Even in 1979 he was still the King:


The King Of Rock And Roll ‎(LP, Comp) Alshire S-5313 USA & Canada 1979



.

[Chris Roberts]

Elvis made Bill Haley look like your Uncle

That's almost exactly what Ringo Starr once told me. He recalled listening to Johnny Ray, Frankie Laine and other singers and then particularly caught on to Bill Haley and his mid-50s hits. "But", he said "once you saw Elvis, Bill Haley looked like your dad."

Very true. Bill Haley was the first king of rock'n'roll, but once Elvis Presley entered the scene, he very quickly took over that title, Leaving Bill affectionately known as the Father of rock'n'roll.

Even in 1979 he was still the King:


The King Of Rock And Roll ‎(LP, Comp) Alshire S-5313 USA & Canada 1979



.

I stand corrected. lol

[robbie]

When did Hayley 1st record RnR and what would have happened if Elvis was on Tv in 1954

[django5722]

Bill Haley's ROCK THE JOINT was from early 1952
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-BztZfXzlo

and before that, there was Rocket 88 in 1951
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Oo2O8SYa04

[Chris Roberts]

When did Hayley 1st record RnR and what would have happened if Elvis was on Tv in 1954

As the 'Saddlemen' Bill Haley's group covered Rocket 88 in 1951, Rock The Joint in 1952 and Crazy Man Crazy in 1953 amongst other tracks. They decided their name didn't fit the music so changed it to the Comets. Rock Around The Clock was recorded in 1954 together with Shake Rattle And Roll amongst others. They were the first all white group to bring the new music to the American mainstream and the world. Before rock'n'roll they were a country and western swing group.

It would be interesting to know what would have happened if Elvis had appeared on TV in 1954.

[Davelee]

When did Hayley 1st record RnR and what would have happened if Elvis was on Tv in 1954

As the 'Saddlemen' Bill Haley's group covered Rocket 88 in 1951, Rock The Joint in 1952 and Crazy Man Crazy in 1953 amongst other tracks. They decided their name didn't fit the music so changed it to the Comets. Rock Around The Clock was recorded in 1954 together with Shake Rattle And Roll amongst others. They were the first all white group to bring the new music to the American mainstream and the world. Before rock'n'roll they were a country and western swing group.

It would be interesting to know what would have happened if Elvis had appeared on TV in 1954.

Also, just to add a little extra info, Rock Around The Clock was originally done by R&B act called Sonny Dae and his Knights released on March 20, 1954, Haley released his cover version two months later in May the same year where the record showed no signs of moving, then Haleys version was re-released a year later in '55, that's when it became a big hit, after it was used in the film Blackboard Jungle.

Haley recorded for the Essex label between 1951 to 1954 which where his version of Rocket 88 was released before he moved to Decca in 54. He recorded many songs for the Essex label, apart from the ones you've mentioned, also, "Green Tree Boogie", "Ten Little Indians" etc. Many of his stuff for the Essex label isn't considered R'n'R but more swing - his idol/influence was Bob Wills and his Texas Playboys who were a western swing band.

Yes, it would be interesting to know if Elvis had appeared on TV in 54/55.

[robbie]

When did Hayley 1st record RnR and what would have happened if Elvis was on Tv in 1954

As the 'Saddlemen' Bill Haley's group covered Rocket 88 in 1951, Rock The Joint in 1952 and Crazy Man Crazy in 1953 amongst other tracks. They decided their name didn't fit the music so changed it to the Comets. Rock Around The Clock was recorded in 1954 together with Shake Rattle And Roll amongst others. They were the first all white group to bring the new music to the American mainstream and the world. Before rock'n'roll they were a country and western swing group.

It would be interesting to know what would have happened if Elvis had appeared on TV in 1954.

interesting, but could you term Rocket 88 as pure RnR but the big bang was about to happen, you can't knock Hayley for what he did for sure but he became a golden oldies star, i remember in the the mid 70s Hayley had a hit again with Rock around the clock and seeing him on Tv again still had the kiss curl dinner jacket, wheres Elvis return to stage was different from the 50s no longer Elvis the pelvis he had changed 2 piece karate suits the moves were different he moved on

[Davelee]

When did Hayley 1st record RnR and what would have happened if Elvis was on Tv in 1954

As the 'Saddlemen' Bill Haley's group covered Rocket 88 in 1951, Rock The Joint in 1952 and Crazy Man Crazy in 1953 amongst other tracks. They decided their name didn't fit the music so changed it to the Comets. Rock Around The Clock was recorded in 1954 together with Shake Rattle And Roll amongst others. They were the first all white group to bring the new music to the American mainstream and the world. Before rock'n'roll they were a country and western swing group.

It would be interesting to know what would have happened if Elvis had appeared on TV in 1954.

interesting, but could you term Rocket 88 as pure RnR but the big bang was about to happen, you can't knock Hayley for what he did for sure but he became a golden oldies star, i remember in the the mid 70s Hayley had a hit again with Rock around the clock and seeing him on Tv again still had the kiss curl dinner jacket, wheres Elvis return to stage was different from the 50s no longer Elvis the pelvis he had changed 2 piece karate suits the moves were different he moved on

Though many have claimed (including writers) that Rocket 88 was the first R'n'R song, it was not, it was a classic R&B track and hit high on the R&B charts, like a lot of R&B songs it lead the way to R'n'R. As I mentioned earlier Haley and Elvis didn't start or invent R'n'R - it's an evolution that happened over a period of years, Haley and Presley just gave it a new light.

[robbie]

When did Hayley 1st record RnR and what would have happened if Elvis was on Tv in 1954

As the 'Saddlemen' Bill Haley's group covered Rocket 88 in 1951, Rock The Joint in 1952 and Crazy Man Crazy in 1953 amongst other tracks. They decided their name didn't fit the music so changed it to the Comets. Rock Around The Clock was recorded in 1954 together with Shake Rattle And Roll amongst others. They were the first all white group to bring the new music to the American mainstream and the world. Before rock'n'roll they were a country and western swing group.

It would be interesting to know what would have happened if Elvis had appeared on TV in 1954.

interesting, but could you term Rocket 88 as pure RnR but the big bang was about to happen, you can't knock Hayley for what he did for sure but he became a golden oldies star, i remember in the the mid 70s Hayley had a hit again with Rock around the clock and seeing him on Tv again still had the kiss curl dinner jacket, wheres Elvis return to stage was different from the 50s no longer Elvis the pelvis he had changed 2 piece karate suits the moves were different he moved on

Though many have claimed (including writers) that Rocket 88 was the first R'n'R song, it was not, it was a classic R&B track and hit high on the R&B charts. As I mentioned earlier Haley and Elvis didn't start or invent R'n'R - it's an evolution that happened over a period of years, Haley and Presley just gave it a new light.

I buy that

[r&b]

Will this book be something you can buy in stores or only order online thru Elvis sites?

[Channeling Elvis]

When did Hayley 1st record RnR and what would have happened if Elvis was on Tv in 1954

As the 'Saddlemen' Bill Haley's group covered Rocket 88 in 1951, Rock The Joint in 1952 and Crazy Man Crazy in 1953 amongst other tracks. They decided their name didn't fit the music so changed it to the Comets. Rock Around The Clock was recorded in 1954 together with Shake Rattle And Roll amongst others. They were the first all white group to bring the new music to the American mainstream and the world. Before rock'n'roll they were a country and western swing group.

It would be interesting to know what would have happened if Elvis had appeared on TV in 1954.

interesting, but could you term Rocket 88 as pure RnR but the big bang was about to happen, you can't knock Hayley for what he did for sure but he became a golden oldies star, i remember in the the mid 70s Hayley had a hit again with Rock around the clock and seeing him on Tv again still had the kiss curl dinner jacket, wheres Elvis return to stage was different from the 50s no longer Elvis the pelvis he had changed 2 piece karate suits the moves were different he moved on

Though many have claimed (including writers) that Rocket 88 was the first R'n'R song, it was not, it was a classic R&B track and hit high on the R&B charts, like a lot of R&B songs it lead the way to R'n'R. As I mentioned earlier Haley and Elvis didn't start or invent R'n'R - it's an evolution that happened over a period of years, Haley and Presley just gave it a new light.

And, for that matter, you could go back at least to Louis Jordan's "Choo Choo Ch'boogie" from 1946. Also has clear links to big band jazz and swing. Here's a link to a YouTube recording of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8uxrypkqv4

I agree that, like jazz, rock had more than one root source and myriad pioneers and groundbreakers. I think both Haley and Elvis were the first big white stars of rock & roll and were thus able to get promotion, TV time, air play and record distribution not generally available to the black performers who pioneered the music. I think Elvis actually paved the way for black rockers to enter the mainstream by establishing the commercial value and popularity of the music, but he took a lot of heat while doing it. IIRC, many early black rockers expressed a debt to Elvis for opening things up for them.

[poormadpeter2]

We really must get beyond the idea that just because something charted on the r&b chart meant it was and forever will be an r&b recording. All Shook Up appeared on the same chart, but good luck to anyone trying to convince us that was an r&b record. Those various charts resulted in songs being pigeon-holed in one place or another. In the case of Rocket 88, there was no rock n roll chart for it to appear on, and so it appearing on the r&b chart means nothing.

[drjohncarpenter]

We really must get beyond the idea that just because something charted on the r&b chart meant it was and forever will be an r&b recording. All Shook Up appeared on the same chart, but good luck to anyone trying to convince us that was an r&b record. Those various charts resulted in songs being pigeon-holed in one place or another. In the case of Rocket 88, there was no rock n roll chart for it to appear on, and so it appearing on the r&b chart means nothing.

That last sentence is extreme and mistaken. But in some respects there is clarity.

"All Shook Up" was promoted in the pop marketplace, and released by the top U.S. recording artist, so its chart success there would naturally be primary. Its appearance on other charts indicated the widespread popularity of Presley's single across different radio and retail markets. The same would apply, for example, to a country number that charted on pop or r&b. The song and artist would remain identified as country. Ferlin Husky's "Gone" is but one example, making #4 on Billboard's "Hot 100" on May 6, 1957, #6 on Cash Box "Best Selling Singles" chart for April 27, 1957 while hitting #1 on Billboard's "C&W Best Sellers in Stores" and "Most Played C&W by Jockeys" on April 6, 1957 ... and staying a while. There was no confusion in that respect.

As "Rocket 88" was issued on a label aimed at the r&b market (Chess 1498) and promoted that way, it is incredibly meaningful it hit #1 on the r&b chart. It indicates an impact at radio and retail for that audience, and because of its revolutionary sound, courtesy of it being recorded at 706 Union and produced by Sam Phillips, it reached another demographic: white teenagers. Among them was a 16 year-old going to Humes High named Elvis Presley. This is the kind of difference that, by the time of Bo Diddley doing his #1 r&b hit on the Sullivan program four years later, the growing teen-age audience well and duly recognized as something more than r&b, even if the single "Bo Diddley" was issued on a Chess subsidiary (Checker 814). It was rock 'n' roll, even if the parents didn't know it yet.

[Davelee]

We really must get beyond the idea that just because something charted on the r&b chart meant it was and forever will be an r&b recording. All Shook Up appeared on the same chart, but good luck to anyone trying to convince us that was an r&b record. Those various charts resulted in songs being pigeon-holed in one place or another. In the case of Rocket 88, there was no rock n roll chart for it to appear on, and so it appearing on the r&b chart means nothing.

There was no R'n'R charts when "Heartbreak Hotel" or "Rock Around The Clock" were released, in fact, there never has been a R'n'R chart - the recordings of Little Richard, Elvis, Buddy Holly etc made the pop charts (which is the main chart for international success) all the other charts such as R&B, country were made/promoted particularly for those genres, but with R'n'R some of the songs crossed all the charts. In the case of "All Shook Up" (as did many of Elvis' hits) it crossed all 3 charts, R&B, Country and Pop - it was just classic that appealed to all types of people, black, white, Country, Pop etc.

[Channeling Elvis]

We really must get beyond the idea that just because something charted on the r&b chart meant it was and forever will be an r&b recording. All Shook Up appeared on the same chart, but good luck to anyone trying to convince us that was an r&b record. Those various charts resulted in songs being pigeon-holed in one place or another. In the case of Rocket 88, there was no rock n roll chart for it to appear on, and so it appearing on the r&b chart means nothing.

That last sentence is extreme and mistaken. But in some respects there is clarity.

"All Shook Up" was promoted in the pop marketplace, and released by the top U.S. recording artist, so its chart success there would naturally be primary. Its appearance on other charts indicated the widespread popularity of Presley's single across different radio and retail markets. The same would apply, for example, to a country number that charted on pop or r&b. The song and artist would remain identified as country. Ferlin Husky's "Gone" is but one example, making #4 on Billboard's "Hot 100" on May 6, 1957, #6 on Cash Box "Best Selling Singles" chart for April 27, 1957 while hitting #1 on Billboard's "C&W Best Sellers in Stores" and "Most Played C&W by Jockeys" on April 6, 1957 ... and staying a while. There was no confusion in that respect.

As "Rocket 88" was issued on a label aimed at the r&b market (Chess 1498) and promoted that way, it is incredibly meaningful it hit #1 on the r&b chart. It indicates an impact at radio and retail for that audience, and because of its revolutionary sound, courtesy of it being recorded at 706 Union and produced by Sam Phillips, it reached another demographic: white teenagers. Among them was a 16 year-old going to Humes High named Elvis Presley. This is the kind of difference that, by the time of Bo Diddley doing his #1 r&b hit on the Sullivan program four years later, the growing teen-age audience well and duly recognized as something more than r&b, even if the single "Bo Diddley" was issued on a Chess subsidiary (Checker 814). It was rock 'n' roll, even if the parents didn't know it yet.

I think there was a point, somewhere in the mid-50s, when the lines between R&R and R&B (or "race records") blurred. It was probably around the time when Alan Freed was in New York running interracial shows at the Paramount (and maybe other venues; I forget). At least in the New York area (where I was) a lot of white kids were finding black radio stations, or stations that played at least some black records, and were turned on to them. I recall hearing a buzz around school about guys like Little Richard and Chuck Berry being "where it's at", but quite a few had discovered the Sun artists by the late 50s. I had a friend who as a Carl Perkins fanatic and liked him even more than Elvis. One of my first LPs was a Sun label Johnny Cash album. I'm not sure you can put your finger on a particular moment, but the blurring was going on to some degree around that time. I think Chuck Berry had a top 20 pop chart hit with Maybellene in 1955 before many people had heard of Elvis.

[poormadpeter2]

We really must get beyond the idea that just because something charted on the r&b chart meant it was and forever will be an r&b recording. All Shook Up appeared on the same chart, but good luck to anyone trying to convince us that was an r&b record. Those various charts resulted in songs being pigeon-holed in one place or another. In the case of Rocket 88, there was no rock n roll chart for it to appear on, and so it appearing on the r&b chart means nothing.

There was no R'n'R charts when "Heartbreak Hotel" or "Rock Around The Clock" were released, in fact, there never has been a R'n'R chart - the recordings of Little Richard, Elvis, Buddy Holly etc made the pop charts (which is the main chart for international success) all the other charts such as R&B, country were made/promoted particularly for those genres, but with R'n'R some of the songs crossed all the charts. In the case of "All Shook Up" (as did many of Elvis' hits) it crossed all 3 charts, R&B, Country and Pop - it was just classic that appealed to all types of people, black, white, Country, Pop etc.

And the wonder of this is that you are arguing arguing against yourself. Of course there was no r&r chart, and I never suggested there was. But there was no blues charts either, and yet you spent several pages on another thread arguing the importance of a song going on the r&b chart and how it therefore couldn't possibly be a blues song. I'm quite happy for you prove your past arguments inadequate and naive, but you might want to think twice before doing that to yourself.

[drjohncarpenter]

That last sentence is extreme and mistaken. But in some respects there is clarity.

"All Shook Up" was promoted in the pop marketplace, and released by the top U.S. recording artist, so its chart success there would naturally be primary. Its appearance on other charts indicated the widespread popularity of Presley's single across different radio and retail markets. The same would apply, for example, to a country number that charted on pop or r&b. The song and artist would remain identified as country. Ferlin Husky's "Gone" is but one example, making #4 on Billboard's "Hot 100" on May 6, 1957, #6 on Cash Box "Best Selling Singles" chart for April 27, 1957 while hitting #1 on Billboard's "C&W Best Sellers in Stores" and "Most Played C&W by Jockeys" on April 6, 1957 ... and staying a while. There was no confusion in that respect.

As "Rocket 88" was issued on a label aimed at the r&b market (Chess 1498) and promoted that way, it is incredibly meaningful it hit #1 on the r&b chart. It indicates an impact at radio and retail for that audience, and because of its revolutionary sound, courtesy of it being recorded at 706 Union and produced by Sam Phillips, it reached another demographic: white teenagers. Among them was a 16 year-old going to Humes High named Elvis Presley. This is the kind of difference that, by the time of Bo Diddley doing his #1 r&b hit on the Sullivan program four years later, the growing teen-age audience well and duly recognized as something more than r&b, even if the single "Bo Diddley" was issued on a Chess subsidiary (Checker 814). It was rock 'n' roll, even if the parents didn't know it yet.

I think there was a point, somewhere in the mid-50s, when the lines between R&R and R&B (or "race records") blurred. It was probably around the time when Alan Freed was in New York running interracial shows at the Paramount (and maybe other venues; I forget). At least in the New York area (where I was) a lot of white kids were finding black radio stations, or stations that played at least some black records, and were turned on to them. I recall hearing a buzz around school about guys like Little Richard and Chuck Berry being "where it's at", but quite a few had discovered the Sun artists by the late 50s. I had a friend who as a Carl Perkins fanatic and liked him even more than Elvis. One of my first LPs was a Sun label Johnny Cash album. I'm not sure you can put your finger on a particular moment, but the blurring was going on to some degree around that time. I think Chuck Berry had a top 20 pop chart hit with Maybellene in 1955 before many people had heard of Elvis.

Nice post. That "blurring" is meaningful, and dovetails nicely with the implications discussed in my statement.

As for "Maybellene" (Chess 1604) by Chuck Berry, it indeed achieved pop success before anything by Elvis, making Billboard's "Best Sellers in Stores" #5 on September 10, 1955, and Cash Box "Top Singles" #5 on the same date. It had been in Elvis' set list for the entire month, too. But Presley had scored top tens in the country market, and the new single at that time, "I Forgot to Remember to Forget" (Sun 223) released in August, would hit #1 nationally on the country chart in early 1956.

[ICanHelp]

When did Hayley 1st record RnR and what would have happened if Elvis was on Tv in 1954

As the 'Saddlemen' Bill Haley's group covered Rocket 88 in 1951, Rock The Joint in 1952 and Crazy Man Crazy in 1953 amongst other tracks. They decided their name didn't fit the music so changed it to the Comets. Rock Around The Clock was recorded in 1954 together with Shake Rattle And Roll amongst others. They were the first all white group to bring the new music to the American mainstream and the world. Before rock'n'roll they were a country and western swing group.

It would be interesting to know what would have happened if Elvis had appeared on TV in 1954.

interesting, but could you term Rocket 88 as pure RnR but the big bang was about to happen, you can't knock Hayley for what he did for sure but he became a golden oldies star, i remember in the the mid 70s Hayley had a hit again with Rock around the clock and seeing him on Tv again still had the kiss curl dinner jacket, wheres Elvis return to stage was different from the 50s no longer Elvis the pelvis he had changed 2 piece karate suits the moves were different he moved on

Though many have claimed (including writers) that Rocket 88 was the first R'n'R song, it was not, it was a classic R&B track and hit high on the R&B charts, like a lot of R&B songs it lead the way to R'n'R. As I mentioned earlier Haley and Elvis didn't start or invent R'n'R - it's an evolution that happened over a period of years, Haley and Presley just gave it a new light.

As a great man, who knew a thing or two about RnR once said: "It's all basically, music is basically, rock and roll music is basically, gospel and rhythm and blues. Or it sprang from that."

[Davelee]

We really must get beyond the idea that just because something charted on the r&b chart meant it was and forever will be an r&b recording. All Shook Up appeared on the same chart, but good luck to anyone trying to convince us that was an r&b record. Those various charts resulted in songs being pigeon-holed in one place or another. In the case of Rocket 88, there was no rock n roll chart for it to appear on, and so it appearing on the r&b chart means nothing.

There was no R'n'R charts when "Heartbreak Hotel" or "Rock Around The Clock" were released, in fact, there never has been a R'n'R chart - the recordings of Little Richard, Elvis, Buddy Holly etc made the pop charts (which is the main chart for international success) all the other charts such as R&B, country were made/promoted particularly for those genres, but with R'n'R some of the songs crossed all the charts. In the case of "All Shook Up" (as did many of Elvis' hits) it crossed all 3 charts, R&B, Country and Pop - it was just classic that appealed to all types of people, black, white, Country, Pop etc.

And the wonder of this is that you are arguing arguing against yourself. Of course there was no r&r chart, and I never suggested there was. But there was no blues charts either, and yet you spent several pages on another thread arguing the importance of a song going on the r&b chart and how it therefore couldn't possibly be a blues song. I'm quite happy for you prove your past arguments inadequate and naive, but you might want to think twice before doing that to yourself.

I would never think twice because i know that some of your posts are misguided and wrong. I love it when you are losing an arguement and then acuse people of things they haven't said by twisting its meaning to suit your arguement, and then bringing up another conversation from another thread that is unrelated to the subject at hand. This is what you do when things are not going your way and it makes you very difficult to have a reasonable chat with, without arguing.

What i would like you to do is prove that my posts are "inadequate and niave". I'm looking forward to reading your response.

[The Pirate]

Amazon in the UK, is selling the book at £79.95. I guess the price may drop, but somehow I don't think it will. http://www.spincds.com have it advertised at £76.99, but they are notably slow in sending items out. Either way it's a lot for a book which is being sold at retail, and not just through fan clubs and dealers.

[danielf]

Amazon in the UK, is selling the book at £79.95. I guess the price may drop, but somehow I don't think it will. http://www.spincds.com have it advertised at £76.99, but they are notably slow in sending items out. Either way it's a lot for a book which is being sold at retail, and not just through fan clubs and dealers.

The Elvis shop in London is cheaper, as others will also be.
Spincds is also a poor choice,they even ended up being more expensive than others for the recent record store day release of I'm Leavin', and yes, they were VERY slow at dispatching too.
If you think the hardback slipcase book from MRS is expensive though you could always opt for a soft back reprint of Ultimate Elvis for £99.99 !