Desert Storm Heroin Myth: Mystery Solved? ->

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Juan Luis

Re: Desert Storm Heroin Myth: Mystery Solved? ->

#1436427

Post by Juan Luis »

fn2drive wrote: Sun glasses at night? Hide the eyes from onlookers not because of glaucoma.
So Glaucoma sufferers should not wear sunglasses at "inappropriate" times so as not to be confused with hiding? He was so lucky to have Glaucoma. A good excuse... :roll:




skatterbrane

Re: Desert Storm Heroin Myth: Mystery Solved? ->

#1436484

Post by skatterbrane »

jurasic1968 wrote:
skatterbrane wrote:Elvis was a junkie. He was addicted to narcotics. The only difference between him and most junkies is he had a prescription and considered it medicine, so it was "okay". Now prescription pain killer abuse is commonplace. What really is the difference between morphine, heroin, or dilaudid if you are addicted to one, any would be an acceptable substitute if your preference was not immediately available. As it came to drugs, Elvis was a hypocrite.
Junkie is a harsh word. Please tell us in your opinion in what year Elvis became a junkie? 1973?
Don't know the exact time, but whenever he became addicted to narcotics. What in the hell is the difference between a famous person who is addicted to narcotics and a bum on the street? One has the support and protection of whatever his fame an fortune can buy. Some even have a personal doctor to HELP him maintain his addiction.

I am not obsessed with his habits, haircuts, sex life, religious beliefs, jumpsuits, etc. I do not keep track of when and where he was on drugs or what drugs he was on. If he was not a singer, in fact my favorite singer, I would not know or care to know anything about him at all.

And what I have heard of his personal hygiene especially in the later years, he is not that far removed from the "pig" label mentioned a few post up.




skatterbrane

Re: Desert Storm Heroin Myth: Mystery Solved? ->

#1436491

Post by skatterbrane »

Wiebe wrote:A junkie is someone that is addicted and because of that can't take care of himself and lives like a pig. Elvis could easily afford his addictions. I can totally understand why such potent drugs appealed to him. It's a fine way of escaping reality where the whole world is expecting something from you and the whole world has an opinion about you. I can so understand his early morning high after Aloha. The reward. Must have been a fine high, too. I just wish he wasn't ashamed of it.
Addiction IS a shameful thing. So it is much more natural for him to be ashamed of it than to use his circumstance, which he could EASILY have afforded to change, as an excuse for being a JUNKIE. He could have easily let his contracts expire, invest wisely and live a nice life without being surrounded by sycophantic friends. He did not HAVE to be "Elvis" he chose to remain in the gilded cage he built for himself. He was a man-child.
Last edited by skatterbrane on Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Desert Storm Heroin Myth: Mystery Solved? ->

#1436492

Post by drjohncarpenter »

Wiebe wrote:A junkie is someone that is addicted and because of that can't take care of himself and lives like a pig. Elvis could easily afford his addictions. I can totally understand why such potent drugs appealed to him. It's a fine way of escaping reality where the whole world is expecting something from you and the whole world has an opinion about you. I can so understand his early morning high after Aloha. The reward. Must have been a fine high, too. I just wish he wasn't ashamed of it.
Um, no. The noun is primarily used as referring to a person addicted to narcotics. Often that narcotic is heroin. Lifestyle and personal care vary according to the person addicted, and who they associate with.


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skatterbrane

Re: Desert Storm Heroin Myth: Mystery Solved? ->

#1436495

Post by skatterbrane »

Heck even John Lennon kicked heroin.



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Re: Desert Storm Heroin Myth: Mystery Solved? ->

#1436496

Post by drjohncarpenter »

skatterbrane wrote:Heck even John Lennon kicked heroin.
It's easier said than done. And a short-term problem cannot be compared to a full-blown lifestyle attraction.


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skatterbrane

Re: Desert Storm Heroin Myth: Mystery Solved? ->

#1436517

Post by skatterbrane »

Agreed. It is best not to start. You'd think the whole human race would have gotten the memo by now.




skatterbrane

Re: Desert Storm Heroin Myth: Mystery Solved? ->

#1436531

Post by skatterbrane »

He could have easily AFFORDED to change. I did not say he could have easily changed. I certainly do not have a romanticized image of Elvis. In fact, just the opposite. I do not allow his celebrity or the fact that I am a fan let him off the hook as so many here do.

And I repeat, addiction is something that is appropriate to be ashamed of.




skatterbrane

Re: Desert Storm Heroin Myth: Mystery Solved? ->

#1436534

Post by skatterbrane »

So are the addicts and former addicts going to circle the wagons now?



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Re: Desert Storm Heroin Myth: Mystery Solved? ->

#1436606

Post by eligain »

skatterbrane wrote:Agreed. It is best not to start. You'd think the whole human race would have gotten the memo by now.


It's very easy to get hooked on opioid pain killers. I shattered my elbow 5 years ago and had surgery. i was put on Dilaudid both intravenously and in pill form. When I started noticing that my pain wasn't as strong, I figured I didn't need the Dilaudid anymore and stopped taking it. I immediately went through severe withdrawal symptoms. I could have easily ended the those symptoms by starting the pills again. The withdrawal was so painful, it's very tempting, but I knew it would make things worse so I toughed it out.

BTW, Dilaudid is not just used in terminal cancer patients. It is commonly used for orthopedic pain such as knee and hip replacements and like in my case, elbow surgery.




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Re: Desert Storm Heroin Myth: Mystery Solved? ->

#1436646

Post by Bobc »

jurasic1968 wrote:
Tim C wrote:It's understood that Elvis was taking amphetamines in the 50's...Ephedrine based pills that at that time were legal and off the shelf type medicine.
No, it's not. Priscilla and Red wrote in their books that Elvis discovered Dexedrine in the army, in November 1958 on Grafenwohr, Germany. The amphetamines were legal until February 1 1966.
I read somewhere it actually started during the Sun Days. His mother gave him her "Diet Pills, i.e. Speed" so he wouldn't fall asleep at the wheel driving from one gig to another.




mark72

Re: Desert Storm Heroin Myth: Mystery Solved? ->

#1436647

Post by mark72 »

Theres one thing i don't understand. Why started he taking diet pills/amphetamines if he was a insomniac?



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Re: Desert Storm Heroin Myth: Mystery Solved? ->

#1436653

Post by jurasic1968 »

In the army he didn't take any sleeping pills. He begin to take Dexedrine regularly in Germany because he woke up very early. After the army he wanted to sleep during the day so he started to use sleeping pills.In Hollywood in the 60's he used mainly amphetamines because he woke up at 6 AM.




skatterbrane

Re: Desert Storm Heroin Myth: Mystery Solved? ->

#1436660

Post by skatterbrane »

eligain wrote:
skatterbrane wrote:Agreed. It is best not to start. You'd think the whole human race would have gotten the memo by now.


It's very easy to get hooked on opioid pain killers. I shattered my elbow 5 years ago and had surgery. i was put on Dilaudid both intravenously and in pill form. When I started noticing that my pain wasn't as strong, I figured I didn't need the Dilaudid anymore and stopped taking it. I immediately went through severe withdrawal symptoms. I could have easily ended the those symptoms by starting the pills again. The withdrawal was so painful, it's very tempting, but I knew it would make things worse so I toughed it out.

BTW, Dilaudid is not just used in terminal cancer patients. It is commonly used for orthopedic pain such as knee and hip replacements and like in my case, elbow surgery.
I had surgery that required I be opened up from just inside my left shoulder blade to just the bottom of my left nipple. One rib was removed. I also got Dilaudid, but the Doctor was wise enough to substitute a non narcotic pain killer after 4-5 days. I was in a LOT of pain for over a month and out of work for about 3 months. But at least my doctor took the precaution of taking me off narcotics after before the first week was out.

I will have to admit that the dilaudid worked a hell of a lot better than whatever he switched me to!

I have sympathy for anyone who gets hooked on a narcotic under your circumstances. However, I think Elvis's circumstances were more of a voluntary nature. Again, I do not understand why people start smoking, taking drugs etc. I understand that it is hard to quit, but it is SOOOO easy not to start.




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Re: Desert Storm Heroin Myth: Mystery Solved? ->

#1436666

Post by Pete Dube »

Steve Morse wrote:I just like the music.
Me too Steve. We'd have more of it if it wasn't for the drugs. And the quality of what we do have would be better if it wasn't for the drugs.




mark72

Re: Desert Storm Heroin Myth: Mystery Solved? ->

#1436674

Post by mark72 »

jurasic1968 wrote:In the army he didn't take any sleeping pills. He begin to take Dexedrine regularly in Germany because he woke up very early. After the army he wanted to sleep during the day so he started to use sleeping pills.In Hollywood in the 60's he used mainly amphetamines because he woke up at 6 AM.
I thought he was an insomniac from the beginning and he had troubles with sleeping already in the fifties.DJ Fontana told in a interview they kept him walking beside the car after a show so he was getting tired.



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Re: Desert Storm Heroin Myth: Mystery Solved? ->

#1436740

Post by Mike Windgren »

Hi there!! :D :D :D.
Steve Morse wrote:I just like the music.
Me too and his movies! 8). Bye for now :smt006.


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Viva el vino, viva el dinero, viva, viva el amor!!.

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Re: Desert Storm Heroin Myth: Mystery Solved? ->

#1436761

Post by eligain »

skatterbrane wrote:
eligain wrote:
skatterbrane wrote:Agreed. It is best not to start. You'd think the whole human race would have gotten the memo by now.


It's very easy to get hooked on opioid pain killers. I shattered my elbow 5 years ago and had surgery. i was put on Dilaudid both intravenously and in pill form. When I started noticing that my pain wasn't as strong, I figured I didn't need the Dilaudid anymore and stopped taking it. I immediately went through severe withdrawal symptoms. I could have easily ended the those symptoms by starting the pills again. The withdrawal was so painful, it's very tempting, but I knew it would make things worse so I toughed it out.

BTW, Dilaudid is not just used in terminal cancer patients. It is commonly used for orthopedic pain such as knee and hip replacements and like in my case, elbow surgery.
I had surgery that required I be opened up from just inside my left shoulder blade to just the bottom of my left nipple. One rib was removed. I also got Dilaudid, but the Doctor was wise enough to substitute a non narcotic pain killer after 4-5 days. I was in a LOT of pain for over a month and out of work for about 3 months. But at least my doctor took the precaution of taking me off narcotics after before the first week was out.

I will have to admit that the dilaudid worked a hell of a lot better than whatever he switched me to!

I have sympathy for anyone who gets hooked on a narcotic under your circumstances. However, I think Elvis's circumstances were more of a voluntary nature. Again, I do not understand why people start smoking, taking drugs etc. I understand that it is hard to quit, but it is SOOOO easy not to start.
The point is, I don't see it as a human failing if you wind up getting hooked on these opioid pain killers since it is a bio-chemical reaction. I was surprised at how fast it can happen. Yes Elvis sort of got into them voluntarily but he needed doctors to do that. One of the things that happened that I think hastened Elvis' decent was going to that "acupuncturist" that was injecting him with Demerol. Seems like it was all downhill from then.




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Re: Desert Storm Heroin Myth: Mystery Solved? ->

#1437460

Post by JRtherealJR »

JRtherealJR wrote:
BobDylan wrote:
JRtherealJR wrote:It's not a bad theory and yes, it's plausible that syringes might have been left lying around and then subsequently mistaken by hotel staff as being used for heroin.

In the Revelations book, Lamar Fike says that Elvis started using Dilaudid in the "mid seventies". But you say 1973- where did you get such a precise date from?

This comes from Sonny West's book, "Elvis: Still Taking Care of Business." He talks about Elvis using Dilaudid before the Aloha special and it gave him a craving for sugar and that was part of the reason for his weight gain. He also nearly suffered an OD in 1973 from too much Dilaudid.
BobDylan wrote: When investigators arrived to start their investigation into Elvis' death they noticed pills on the lawn.
I'd be interested to know what your source was for this.
This comes from the book, "The Death of Elvis" by Charles Thompson and James Cole. It is the most informative book out there about what really happened on August 16th and the days after.
I've got that book. Can't remember it ever mentioning "pills on the lawn". Do you remember what page this information it's on?
It's been 5 days now.....I'm just wondering if you've had any luck finding the page where you claim it says they found pills on the lawn.?


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Ad hominem (Latin for 'to the person'), refers to several types of arguments, most of which are fallacious. Typically this term refers to a rhetorical strategy where the speaker attacks the character, motive, or some other attribute of the person making an argument rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself. This avoids genuine debate by creating a personal attack as a diversion.
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Re: Desert Storm Heroin Myth: Mystery Solved? ->

#1437468

Post by BobDylan »

JRtherealJR wrote:
JRtherealJR wrote:
BobDylan wrote:
JRtherealJR wrote:It's not a bad theory and yes, it's plausible that syringes might have been left lying around and then subsequently mistaken by hotel staff as being used for heroin.

In the Revelations book, Lamar Fike says that Elvis started using Dilaudid in the "mid seventies". But you say 1973- where did you get such a precise date from?

This comes from Sonny West's book, "Elvis: Still Taking Care of Business." He talks about Elvis using Dilaudid before the Aloha special and it gave him a craving for sugar and that was part of the reason for his weight gain. He also nearly suffered an OD in 1973 from too much Dilaudid.
BobDylan wrote: When investigators arrived to start their investigation into Elvis' death they noticed pills on the lawn.
I'd be interested to know what your source was for this.
This comes from the book, "The Death of Elvis" by Charles Thompson and James Cole. It is the most informative book out there about what really happened on August 16th and the days after.
I've got that book. Can't remember it ever mentioning "pills on the lawn". Do you remember what page this information it's on?
It's been 5 days now.....I'm just wondering if you've had any luck finding the page where you claim it says they found pills on the lawn.?
I have not. In my old age it's possible I was thinking of a different book. I skimmed through The Death of Elvis a couple of times but couldn't find it. I do however stand by my recollection that this incident did in fact happen. I'll keep looking,




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Re: Desert Storm Heroin Myth: Mystery Solved? ->

#1697887

Post by BobDylan »

BobDylan on Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:51 pm wrote:
JRtherealJR wrote:
JRtherealJR wrote:
BobDylan wrote:
JRtherealJR wrote:It's not a bad theory and yes, it's plausible that syringes might have been left lying around and then subsequently mistaken by hotel staff as being used for heroin.

In the Revelations book, Lamar Fike says that Elvis started using Dilaudid in the "mid seventies". But you say 1973- where did you get such a precise date from?

This comes from Sonny West's book, "Elvis: Still Taking Care of Business." He talks about Elvis using Dilaudid before the Aloha special and it gave him a craving for sugar and that was part of the reason for his weight gain. He also nearly suffered an OD in 1973 from too much Dilaudid.
BobDylan wrote: When investigators arrived to start their investigation into Elvis' death they noticed pills on the lawn.
I'd be interested to know what your source was for this.
This comes from the book, "The Death of Elvis" by Charles Thompson and James Cole. It is the most informative book out there about what really happened on August 16th and the days after.
I've got that book. Can't remember it ever mentioning "pills on the lawn". Do you remember what page this information it's on?
It's been 5 days now.....I'm just wondering if you've had any luck finding the page where you claim it says they found pills on the lawn.?
I have not. In my old age it's possible I was thinking of a different book. I skimmed through The Death of Elvis a couple of times but couldn't find it. I do however stand by my recollection that this incident did in fact happen. I'll keep looking,
I am happy to report that on page 386 in the book, The Death of Elvis, it says the following: "Hutchinson parked the unmarked cruiser on the circular driveway in front of the mansion. Climbing out of the car, he glanced down at the grass next to the asphalt and spotted something that really threw him. Strewn across the lawn were a handful of bright green-and-black Librium capsules. 'Goddammit,' he swore at McGriff. 'They're growing 'em here!'"

I apologize for taking three and a half years to find the quote and source. So there you have it.

And this is from the January 1992 paperback edition to the book.



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Re: Desert Storm Heroin Myth: Mystery Solved? ->

#1698194

Post by Xaykev »

Billy Smith, nobody knew Elvis better than him, is a straight-shooter and once said that Elvis was clean about 60% of the time the last years of his life.

Some people here think Elvis was drugged out of his mind 24/7. How come he was able to drive cars and three-wheelers without making a mess, then?


I miss you, Elvis!


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Re: Desert Storm Heroin Myth: Mystery Solved? ->

#1698196

Post by fn2drive »

Xaykev on Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:40 pm wrote:Billy Smith, nobody knew Elvis better than him, is a straight-shooter and once said that Elvis was clean about 60% of the time the last years of his life.

Some people here think Elvis was drugged out of his mind 24/7. How come he was able to drive cars and three-wheelers without making a mess, then?
He was high 24/7 on a massive daily drug cocktail of opiates, uppers, downers and assorted others. He lived from fix to fix and built up a huge tolerance as most do as a result of chronic abuse. Indeed the euphoria he sought increasingly escaped him if there was any at all and all he was left with was misery- impacted colon and chronic constipation from the opiates paralyzing his colon. Staggering around a stage, locomotion and slurred speech along with glassy eyes hidden behind sunglasses at night are pretty goods signs. However when your sun glasses are made of rose colored glass, you are capable of denying reality. Billy Smith is full of it. Take a look at what Elvis drug doctor prescribed in the last few years of his life. That should snap you into reality.


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Re: Desert Storm Heroin Myth: Mystery Solved? ->

#1698203

Post by rlj4ep »

Xaykev on Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:40 pm wrote:Billy Smith, nobody knew Elvis better than him, is a straight-shooter and once said that Elvis was clean about 60% of the time the last years of his life.

Some people here think Elvis was drugged out of his mind 24/7. How come he was able to drive cars and three-wheelers without making a mess, then?
Thank for bringing this up and reminding all of what Elvis' trusted cousin said. Listening to the same stuff every thread makes one weary.

rlj



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Re: Desert Storm Heroin Myth: Mystery Solved? ->

#1698291

Post by drjohncarpenter »

rlj4ep on Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:02 pm wrote:
Xaykev on Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:40 pm wrote:Billy Smith, nobody knew Elvis better than him, is a straight-shooter and once said that Elvis was clean about 60% of the time the last years of his life.

Some people here think Elvis was drugged out of his mind 24/7. How come he was able to drive cars and three-wheelers without making a mess, then?
Thank for bringing this up and reminding all of what Elvis' trusted cousin said. Listening to the same stuff every thread makes one weary.
It's unfortunate this three year-old topic was revived. So for those who are "weary," address your scolding in that direction. Or, better yet, get off your duff and CREATE a topic that isn't "the same old stuff." Complaining and doing nothing more is, in itself, the "same old stuff."

Billy Smith and wife Jo were family, and Elvis took such comfort in their presence he insisted they moved onto his property in the last two years of his life. For those who want to know what it was like then, reading Elvis: Portrait of a Friend and Elvis Aaron Presley: Revelations from the Memphis Mafia is insightful. Jo even has a third of the first book to herself.

Whether Elvis is impaired 60% of the time or 90% of the time, both are horrible to consider. However, there can be no disputing his health issues were real, and grave. We know now we could have lost him any number of times from 1973 on. Fate.

As for absurd statements about how anyone could possibly be driving while impaired, there is a hundred-year history of human beings doing that without incident. It is not a credible argument to make about Elvis and his health issues in this period.


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Dr. John Carpenter, M.D.
Stop, look and listen, baby <<--->> that's my philosophy!
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