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mysterytrainrideson wrote:Feltondoes not deserve any credit to the 1969 recordings, period. The sole producer for the sessions at the time they we're being put on tape rightfully goes to Chips Moman. What Felton did to the songs came after the sessions were over and Moman handed the session tapes over to RCA, so that's when the additional overdubs we're done, without Moman being there.
mysterytrainrideson wrote:Just because his voice can be heard on a particular moment on a tape doesn't mean he is producing, so he's there in the studio, doesn't mean nothing.
Really, if you're going to make blanket statements like this you need to get your facts right.
Your ongoing bolshy quest to "tell it like it is" only sees you tell it how it isn't, time and again.
Yeah, sure! Where are my facts wrong? Please explain...
And your ongoing denial to see Felton as a mediocre producer is evident for all to see.
The only thing Mathew has done is give credit where it is do. No more. No less. Giving a little credit to Jarvis for some here is taken as personal. Is there a book in the works of the American Sessions? It will need revising if no credit given to Felton Jarvis. Because it will not be thorough and therefore flawed.
He does deserve credit as a producer but not on the American sessions, the "historical record" shows this. Yes, he was there but his contributions were virtually nothing, he may have said this or that during recording but the real guy behind it all was Chips - fact. I've read everything there is about these session and it is abundantly clear that Chips was the man and driving force. In everything i've read about those sessions, be it interviews with musicians etc, not one of them have Said anything about Felton doing anything significant during recording, everyone says Moman is the man.
I still don't know why you're bringing Felton more to the forefront of these sessions and crediting him where credit is not due. I and others are not taking it personal or have it in for Felton but just stating the known facts.
He is officially credited as producer with Chips Moman. No one can change that. And I haven't even argued for the official equal billing. Giving Moman the major well deserved credit. I go with Jorgensen & Spreen plus session recordings & paperwork. And I am not alone.
Yes and Tom Parker was credited as Technical Advisor on many films. Really a credit without much merit. Also Steve Sholes was officially credited as producer on those early rock and roll sessions. He knew as much about rock and roll as Pat Boone did. So really, Felton is only credited because he had been with Elvis since 1966. He may have tweaked a few things after the sessions, but was certainly not in control, a possible factor of Elvis not going back there. When someone was in control of anything having to do with Elvis as Chips was during these sessions, it made the old man mad. Felton never controlled an Elvis session the way Chips did.
r&b wrote:
Yes and Tom Parker was credited as Technical Advisor on many films. Really a credit without much merit. Also Steve Sholes was officially credited as producer on those early rock and roll sessions. He knew as much about rock and roll as Pat Boone did. So really, Felton is only credited because he had been with Elvis since 1966. He may have tweaked a few things after the sessions, but was certainly not in control, a possible factor of Elvis not going back there. When someone was in control of anything having to do with Elvis as Chips was during these sessions, it made the old man mad. Felton never controlled an Elvis session the way Chips did.
That is a terrible comparison with Parker. If you read the other thread plus this one completely. Tweaking a few things? You think the OP started a whole thread cause he thinks Jarvis tweaked a few things? No. And Elvis didn't need to be controlled by Chips (or anyone) to give inspired performances. "Power Of My love" ?
r&b wrote:
Yes and Tom Parker was credited as Technical Advisor on many films. Really a credit without much merit. Also Steve Sholes was officially credited as producer on those early rock and roll sessions. He knew as much about rock and roll as Pat Boone did. So really, Felton is only credited because he had been with Elvis since 1966. He may have tweaked a few things after the sessions, but was certainly not in control, a possible factor of Elvis not going back there. When someone was in control of anything having to do with Elvis as Chips was during these sessions, it made the old man mad. Felton never controlled an Elvis session the way Chips did.
That is a terrible comparison with Parker. If you read the other thread plus this one completely. Tweaking a few things? You think the OP started a whole thread cause he thinks Jarvis tweaked a few things? No. And Elvis didn't need to be controlled by Chips (or anyone) to give inspired performances. "Power Of My love" ?
From 1970 onward Elvis needed the challenge of a good producer like Chips to give him that inspiration, he was not gonna get from a yes-man like Felton...thats maybe one of the reasons he didn't work or put himself out to work with Chips again, because Elvis knew that he wouldn't get away with the sh*t he was doing with someone like Chips. Chips wouldn't allow sycophancy, he was there to make music, not cater to the stars sudden whims and fancy just to suit him. That's why a lot of Elvis' records became sh*tty and soft in the 70s because there was no one really in control only what Elvis felt like doing, as we all know he got lazy.
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mysterytrainrideson wrote:Hey, SteamrollerBlues when are you gonna make a comment on this thread, about the subject? Instead of "thanking" everyone who disagrees with the Doc, myself and Tony C. Do you have something against us?
Hey, mysterytrainrideson, how's about modifying your own behaviour first, before critiquing someone else's?
For what it is worth, the other gentlemen you cite argue their points from a position of reason, upon a strong foundation. They would never say Felton produced nothing (aka. zero, zilch, nadder, like you wrote in an earlier post) during the recording process in Jan/Feb 1969.
Have you changed your mind on that matter yet? It might help your argument.
But don't worry i'm sure you will be "thanked" by 15 year old SteamrollerBlues.
No need to worry about those sorts, they stray into that bully territory in vain bids to "tell it like it is, man", even when they're blatantly mistaken on oh so very many occasions.
Not sure what's wrong with being a young fan either, some guys are just grumpy!
drjohncarpenter wrote:Anyone ever heard this 1962 single release? Whoever believes Felton Jarvis is not a creative producer must be out of their minds.
.. Vince Everett "Such A Night" (ABC-Paramount 45-10313, March 24, 1962)
Produced by Felton Jarvis.
Since I was asked, I'll give my thoughts, I guess.
First off Doc, I didn't know this even existed, so thank you for sharing this. Is there any original work from Marvin Benefield, or is there just material from his run as "Vince Everett"?
As for "Fel-tone", I've never really given him much thought, to be honest. I've always believed he was a fair (not great) producer. Yes, he's certainly not on the level of Chips, we all know that. The blame is just as much on Elvis as Felton for the mediocre studio work as the '70s progressed...
#3- Personal attacks of any kind - if we feel it is a personal attack against a member or if what you say comes across to us as tho it will start something, we "could" or will delete or edit without warning.
#5- Do not fight any personal wars on this board, nor try to start one either. Staying on the topic at hand will avoid this.
#6- Complete irrelevant threads or posts which may offend, or threads/posts which we believe are meant to start trouble will be deleted.
#11- Do Not, We Repeat, Do Not try to stir trouble because you feel you can; because you cannot. At the same time DO NOT try to stir trouble on this board at all for any reason !!!
The guidelines are in place for all members to adhere to. You can have disagreements or debates regarding virtually any subject: as long as it is handled in a courteous and civil manner. The moment you "took it personal" and responded the way you did, is why this warning, and further steps are now to be taken. This will be your absolute final warning.
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Hey, SteamrollerBlues when are you gonna make a comment on this thread, about the subject? Instead of "thanking" everyone who disagrees with the Doc, myself and Tony C. Do you have something against us?
Ah, missed this one. Why would I have anything against you guys? I might disagree a bit, but I assure you, it's nothing personal. I've "thanked" you and the Doc on many occasions. Don't think I've ever interacted with Tony C. here, though.
drjohncarpenter wrote:Anyone ever heard this 1962 single release? Whoever believes Felton Jarvis is not a creative producer must be out of their minds.
.. Vince Everett "Such A Night" (ABC-Paramount 45-10313, March 24, 1962)
Produced by Felton Jarvis.
Since I was asked, I'll give my thoughts, I guess.
First off Doc, I didn't know this even existed, so thank you for sharing this. Is there any original work from Marvin Benefield, or is there just material from his run as "Vince Everett"?
As for "Fel-tone", I've never really given him much thought, to be honest. I've always believed he was a fair (not great) producer. Yes, he's certainly not on the level of Chips, we all know that. The blame is just as much on Elvis as Felton for the mediocre studio work as the '70s progressed...
I just try to enjoy the music.
Well done!
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Juan Luis wrote:He is officially credited as producer with Chips Moman. No one can change that. And I haven't even argued for the official equal billing. Giving Moman the major well deserved credit. I go with Jorgensen & Spreen plus session recordings & paperwork. And I am not alone.
Yes and Tom Parker was credited as Technical Advisor on many films. Really a credit without much merit. Also Steve Sholes was officially credited as producer on those early rock and roll sessions. He knew as much about rock and roll as Pat Boone did. So really, Felton is only credited because he had been with Elvis since 1966. He may have tweaked a few things after the sessions, but was certainly not in control, a possible factor of Elvis not going back there. When someone was in control of anything having to do with Elvis as Chips was during these sessions, it made the old man mad. Felton never controlled an Elvis session the way Chips did.
Every single word of that response is spot-on. But do not expect a thank you in return, as none of it will be accepted on any level.
. Dr. John Carpenter, M.D. Stop, look and listen, baby <<--->> that's my philosophy!
drjohncarpenter wrote:Anyone ever heard this 1962 single release? Whoever believes Felton Jarvis is not a creative producer must be out of their minds.
.. Vince Everett "Such A Night" (ABC-Paramount 45-10313, March 24, 1962)
Produced by Felton Jarvis.
Since I was asked, I'll give my thoughts, I guess.
First off Doc, I didn't know this even existed, so thank you for sharing this. Is there any original work from Marvin Benefield, or is there just material from his run as "Vince Everett"?
As for "Fel-tone", I've never really given him much thought, to be honest. I've always believed he was a fair (not great) producer. Yes, he's certainly not on the level of Chips, we all know that. The blame is just as much on Elvis as Felton for the mediocre studio work as the '70s progressed...
I just try to enjoy the music.
Cool. Your thoughts on Fel-Tone echo most of us here. It's just perverse that some have been driven to make post-after-post, on two different topics, trying to elevate him to a status he never achieved and is in no way supported by the facts. As for Marvin Benefield, just click the link in the post and you'll find his discography.
. Dr. John Carpenter, M.D. Stop, look and listen, baby <<--->> that's my philosophy!
drjohncarpenter wrote:Anyone ever heard this 1962 single release? Whoever believes Felton Jarvis is not a creative producer must be out of their minds.
.. Vince Everett "Such A Night" (ABC-Paramount 45-10313, March 24, 1962)
Produced by Felton Jarvis.
Since I was asked, I'll give my thoughts, I guess.
First off Doc, I didn't know this even existed, so thank you for sharing this. Is there any original work from Marvin Benefield, or is there just material from his run as "Vince Everett"?
As for "Fel-tone", I've never really given him much thought, to be honest. I've always believed he was a fair (not great) producer. Yes, he's certainly not on the level of Chips, we all know that. The blame is just as much on Elvis as Felton for the mediocre studio work as the '70s progressed...
Juan Luis wrote:He is officially credited as producer with Chips Moman. No one can change that. And I haven't even argued for the official equal billing. Giving Moman the major well deserved credit. I go with Jorgensen & Spreen plus session recordings & paperwork. And I am not alone.
Yes and Tom Parker was credited as Technical Advisor on many films. Really a credit without much merit. Also Steve Sholes was officially credited as producer on those early rock and roll sessions. He knew as much about rock and roll as Pat Boone did. So really, Felton is only credited because he had been with Elvis since 1966. He may have tweaked a few things after the sessions, but was certainly not in control, a possible factor of Elvis not going back there. When someone was in control of anything having to do with Elvis as Chips was during these sessions, it made the old man mad. Felton never controlled an Elvis session the way Chips did.
Every single word of that response is spot-on. But do not expect a thank you in return, as none of it will be accepted on any level.
Thanks! I am not even saying Jarvis was a bad producer, just nowhere the level of Chips. FJ was brought in by RCA in 1966 to kind of modernize the Elvis sound or make it seem more youthful with a younger producer who was a fan and understood what Elvis' music meant, and the early results were good, Big Boss Man, Guitar Man, US Male, etc. Elvis needed a change ,wanted to be relevant again, and he responded. By the time of the 70's Elvis' music was stale and so was Felton's style. He basically became more cheerleader than anything else , but lets give him credit for pushing Elvis to record Burning Love. I place most of the blame for the mediocre stuff Elvis was putting out in the 70's on Elvis himself. Felton wanted better, wanted to get Elvis out of the I Miss You type songs rut, Elvis didnt give a s@## anymore.
drjohncarpenter wrote:Every single word of that response is spot-on. But do not expect a thank you in return, as none of it will be accepted on any level.
Sadly some on here have no clue when a "Thanks" is really deserved. It is not just there for the sake of hitting . Bye for now .
Maestro. Mike Windgren. Torero!!!!!!!!.
Always Trying To Make Peace <<--->> On FECC
Not The Best, Just The Coolest Guy Around!..
Viva el vino, viva el dinero, viva, viva el amor!!.
drjohncarpenter wrote:Every single word of that response is spot-on. But do not expect a thank you in return, as none of it will be accepted on any level.
Sadly some on here have no clue when a "Thanks" is really deserved. It is not just there for the sake of hitting
Oh, that is quite clear.
. Dr. John Carpenter, M.D. Stop, look and listen, baby <<--->> that's my philosophy!
drjohncarpenter wrote:Every single word of that response is spot-on. But do not expect a thank you in return, as none of it will be accepted on any level.
Sadly some on here have no clue when a "Thanks" is really deserved. It is not just there for the sake of hitting . Bye for now .
r&b wrote:FJ was brought in by RCA in 1966 to kind of modernize the Elvis sound or make it seem more youthful with a younger producer who was a fan and understood what Elvis' music meant, and the early results were good, Big Boss Man, Guitar Man, US Male, etc. Elvis needed a change ,wanted to be relevant again, and he responded.
Felton enthused Elvis. That was the hard part. It would not have mattered where Elvis had recorded in '69. The results would still have been great.
With Elvis, Chips got lucky. Timing is everything.
>>>
some people say i done all right for a girl . . . oh yeah yeah
mike edwards66 wrote: It would not have mattered where Elvis had recorded in '69. The results would still have been great.
Trying to undermine American Sound itself, the musicians, the interplay, the super-successful track record, and deeply creative work environment is a pointless exercise. The experience between Elvis, Chips and the musicians who gathered with them in January and February 1969 was unique, precious and rare. The masters that came out of it are Presley's mature legacy, and no amount of superficial fantasizing will ever change that fact.
BACK ON TOPIC:
It still seems apparent that whatever Felton Jarvis achieved with Elvis in the studio was based on the production and arrangement skills acquired and demonstrated before he was hired by RCA in 1965.
. Dr. John Carpenter, M.D. Stop, look and listen, baby <<--->> that's my philosophy!
r&b wrote:When someone was in control of anything having to do with Elvis as Chips was during these sessions, it made the old man mad. Felton never controlled an Elvis session the way Chips did.
That's a myth. Guralnick wrote Parker was "proud" of his boy working hard. This is everything happening right place, right time. If Parker was mad. Was because of business, and Chips Moman's refusal to give publishing to "Suspicious Mind"s and "Mama Liked The Roses". Other than that. He didn't have a problem with Elvis working hard, and knowing no producer was going to get a piece of the album. Cause Elvis "produced his own records"!
r&b wrote:When someone was in control of anything having to do with Elvis as Chips was during these sessions, it made the old man mad. Felton never controlled an Elvis session the way Chips did.
That's a myth. Guralnick wrote Parker was "proud" of his boy working hard. This is everything happening right place, right time. If Parker was mad. Was because of business, and Chips Moman's refusal to give publishing to "Suspicious Mind"s and "Mama Liked The Roses". Other than that. He didn't have a problem with Elvis working hard, and knowing no producer was going to get a piece of the album. Cause Elvis "produced his own records"!
Of course, generally speaking, Parker would be pleased with Elvis putting effort into his work. That said, Parker was subsequently much more content with mediocrity and Elvis mailing it in as long as contractual requirements were being met, particularly once he had full control over the producer and proceedings. Parker was more than happy to watch Elvis' work deteriorate after Leiber & Stoller, Binder, and Moman were alienated from Elvis' professional life. He substituted mediocrity for greatness, and it was a price he was willing to pay in order to have full control over his star. Jarvis played the role of the keeper and director of recording mediocrity; the only issue Parker had with Jarvis was Jarvis' inability to consistently get Elvis to record 20-30 masters at a time, quality was not a primary concern.
r&b wrote:When someone was in control of anything having to do with Elvis as Chips was during these sessions, it made the old man mad. Felton never controlled an Elvis session the way Chips did.
That's a myth. Guralnick wrote Parker was "proud" of his boy working hard. This is everything happening right place, right time. If Parker was mad. Was because of business, and Chips Moman's refusal to give publishing to "Suspicious Mind"s and "Mama Liked The Roses". Other than that. He didn't have a problem with Elvis working hard, and knowing no producer was going to get a piece of the album. Cause Elvis "produced his own records"!
Of course, generally speaking, Parker would be pleased with Elvis putting effort into his work. That said, Parker was subsequently much more content with mediocrity and Elvis mailing it in as long as contractual requirements were being met, particularly once he had full control over the producer and proceedings. Parker was more than happy to watch Elvis' work deteriorate after Leiber & Stoller, Binder, and Moman were alienated from Elvis' professional life. He substituted mediocrity for greatness, and it was a price he was willing to pay in order to have full control over his star. Jarvis played the role of the keeper and director of recording mediocrity; the only issue Parker had with Jarvis was Jarvis' inability to consistently get Elvis to record 20-30 masters at a time, quality was not a primary concern.
For a majority of the seventies, Elvis didn't want to record, having become completely disinterested in the process because the colonel had managed to alienate Chips and other top people, to the point where once again, Elvis stopped getting top shelf material again. He knew he was cutting a lot of crap and RCA was also putting filler albums as well. What a mess! Very good post midnight x!
Last edited by Joe Car on Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
r&b wrote:When someone was in control of anything having to do with Elvis as Chips was during these sessions, it made the old man mad. Felton never controlled an Elvis session the way Chips did.
That's a myth. Guralnick wrote Parker was "proud" of his boy working hard. This is everything happening right place, right time. If Parker was mad. Was because of business, and Chips Moman's refusal to give publishing to "Suspicious Mind"s and "Mama Liked The Roses". Other than that. He didn't have a problem with Elvis working hard, and knowing no producer was going to get a piece of the album. Cause Elvis "produced his own records"!
Of course, generally speaking, Parker would be pleased with Elvis putting effort into his work. That said, Parker was subsequently much more content with mediocrity and Elvis mailing it in as long as contractual requirements were being met, particularly once he had full control over the producer and proceedings. Parker was more than happy to watch Elvis' work deteriorate after Leiber & Stoller, Binder, and Moman were alienated from Elvis' professional life. He substituted mediocrity for greatness, and it was a price he was willing to pay in order to have full control over his star. Jarvis played the role of the keeper and director of recording mediocrity; the only issue Parker had with Jarvis was Jarvis' inability to consistently get Elvis to record 20-30 masters at a time, quality was not a primary concern.
I don't buy that. "more than happy to watch Elvis' work deteriorate". That's silly thinking and biased. No matter how much you hate the guy. Parker and Jarvis would have loved greatness. Knowing that would sell more records. Simple as that! Sell records. More money for everyone. You speak of Moman as if his hit machine lasted well after Elvis' sessions. It didn't. His peak IMO was Elvis too! Or at least its well known till then. He got more hits and even a Grammy but very far between IIRC. And Chips left Memphis and that was that, pretty much. And you (of all people) not blinded by Elvis' addictions blame Felton for Elvis' disinterest? Please. Even the great George Martin couldn't control his group during the mess of the double album (He wanted one great one) and the super mess of LET IT BE. Which Spector pretty much overdubbed the hell out of it and looped, edited stuff... the great music material saved it. Plus the extreme fans that worship group that invented everything but water! Me thinks a lot of crap was recorded for those two projects. Ring a bell? Yes, Chips said it for his own sessions at American. And I guess it was up to Felton to finish. The unfinished. Significant credit? Yes.
Last edited by Juan Luis on Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
. Bye for now 
.
