The Pied Piper of Cleveland

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Re: The Pied Piper of Cleveland

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Post by mysterytrainrideson »

davide wrote:From the book ' The Blue Moon Boys - The Story Of Elvis Presley's Band by Ken Burke and Dan Griffin.

David
Thanks Davide.

The newspaper clipping obviously refers to the b&w footage of Elvis in Vegas - on stage and with Liberace, and being shown WEWS-TV. He could have easily done this with the "Piper" footage as a promotion for Presley's up coming TV debut on the Dorsey Show - it's quite possible, just my guess.

Seems like he had his own TV slot for promoting artists.


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Re: The Pied Piper of Cleveland

#1338923

Post by mysterytrainrideson »

poormadpeter wrote:
davide wrote:From the book ' The Blue Moon Boys - The Story Of Elvis Presley's Band by Ken Burke and Dan Griffin.

David
Thanks for this. It's odd that Pat Boone remembers Randle telling him that he had signed with RCA... a whole month before it actually happened!
Or it could be Boone misremembers....though the selling of the contract was certainly in the talks at that point and Randle knew all about it as he played a part in it, trying to bring Columbia Records into it etc.

Or maybe Randle was talking "out of his backside" to Boone that day in Oct '55. Sorry couldn't resist. :D


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Re: The Pied Piper of Cleveland

#1338937

Post by drjohncarpenter »

mysterytrainrideson wrote:
davide wrote:From the book ' The Blue Moon Boys - The Story Of Elvis Presley's Band by Ken Burke and Dan Griffin.

David
Thanks Davide.

The newspaper clipping obviously refers to the b&w footage of Elvis in Vegas - on stage and with Liberace, and being shown WEWS-TV. He could have easily done this with the "Piper" footage as a promotion for Presley's up coming TV debut on the Dorsey Show - it's quite possible, just my guess.

Seems like he had his own TV slot for promoting artists.
The unsourced clipping is not from a newspaper but Billboard magazine.

Here's the complete page:

Billboard May 05 1956.JPG
Billboard - May 5, 1956
Note: interesting article on how R&B originals doing better than milquetoast white covers (i.e. Pat Boone)

---

The backstage footage with Liberace and brother George, and "Blue Suede Shoes" on stage, is apparently from opening night at the New Frontier, Monday, April 23, 1956.
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Re: The Pied Piper of Cleveland

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Post by mysterytrainrideson »

drjohncarpenter wrote:
mysterytrainrideson wrote:
davide wrote:From the book ' The Blue Moon Boys - The Story Of Elvis Presley's Band by Ken Burke and Dan Griffin.

David
Thanks Davide.

The newspaper clipping obviously refers to the b&w footage of Elvis in Vegas - on stage and with Liberace, and being shown WEWS-TV. He could have easily done this with the "Piper" footage as a promotion for Presley's up coming TV debut on the Dorsey Show - it's quite possible, just my guess.

Seems like he had his own TV slot for promoting artists.
The unsourced clipping is not from a newspaper but Billboard magazine.

Here's the complete page:

Billboard May 05 1956.JPG
Billboard - May 5, 1956
Note: interesting article on how R&B originals doing better than milquetoast white covers (i.e. Pat Boone)

---

The backstage footage with Liberace and brother George, and "Blue Suede Shoes" on stage, is apparently from opening night at the New Frontier, Monday, April 23, 1956.
Thanks for posting the whole billboard page, Doc, much appreciated.


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Re: The Pied Piper of Cleveland

#1338959

Post by poormadpeter »

mysterytrainrideson wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
davide wrote:From the book ' The Blue Moon Boys - The Story Of Elvis Presley's Band by Ken Burke and Dan Griffin.

David
Thanks for this. It's odd that Pat Boone remembers Randle telling him that he had signed with RCA... a whole month before it actually happened!
Or it could be Boone misremembers....though the selling of the contract was certainly in the talks at that point and Randle knew all about it as he played a part in it, trying to bring Columbia Records into it etc.

Or maybe Randle was talking "out of his backside" to Boone that day in Oct '55. Sorry couldn't resist. :D
If he was trying to bring Columbia into it at that time (which is probably true) then he wouldn't have said that Elvis had signed to RCA! My point, which you clearly missed, is that this is another example of an unreliable interviewee (in this case Boone).



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Re: The Pied Piper of Cleveland

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Post by Channeling Elvis »

Interestingly enough, Scotty had very little recollection of the Cleveland concert when I interviewed him and he doesn't even mention it in his book, although he mentions the Circle Theater show.
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Re: The Pied Piper of Cleveland

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Post by mysterytrainrideson »

Channeling Elvis wrote:Interestingly enough, Scotty had very little recognition of the Cleveland concert when I interviewed him and he doesn't even mention it in his book, although he mentions the Circle Theater show.
Yeah, Scotty's memory isn't that great. He doesn't remember "Harbour Lights" or "Little Mama". But i would have thought he'd remember a film being made.
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Re: The Pied Piper of Cleveland

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Post by Channeling Elvis »

mysterytrainrideson wrote:
Channeling Elvis wrote:Interestingly enough, Scotty had very little recognition of the Cleveland concert when I interviewed him and he doesn't even mention it in his book, although he mentions the Circle Theater show.
Yeah, Scotty's memory isn't that great. He doesn't remember "Harbour Lights" or "Little Mama". But i would have thought he'd remember a film being made.
I interviewed him quite a while ago and he had very clear memories of some things, but not others. I wonder if all of those shows they were doing at the time, racing from town to town, didn't all blend together at some point so that the Cleveland gig doesn't stand out in his mind. Too bad D.J. wasn't there or I would have asked him about it too. Of course, Randle's memories have to be taken with a generous grain of salt and we now see that Pat Boone, too, seems to have become fuzzy on this with the passing years.


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Re: The Pied Piper of Cleveland

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Post by mysterytrainrideson »

poormadpeter wrote:
mysterytrainrideson wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
davide wrote:From the book ' The Blue Moon Boys - The Story Of Elvis Presley's Band by Ken Burke and Dan Griffin.

David
Thanks for this. It's odd that Pat Boone remembers Randle telling him that he had signed with RCA... a whole month before it actually happened!
Or it could be Boone misremembers....though the selling of the contract was certainly in the talks at that point and Randle knew all about it as he played a part in it, trying to bring Columbia Records into it etc.

Or maybe Randle was talking "out of his backside" to Boone that day in Oct '55. Sorry couldn't resist. :D
If he was trying to bring Columbia into it at that time (which is probably true) then he wouldn't have said that Elvis had signed to RCA! My point, which you clearly missed, is that this is another example of an unreliable interviewee (in this case Boone).
I haven't "clearly missed" anything...you hadn't mentioned anything as an example of an "unreliable interviewee" on the post, just that you thought it "odd" Randle telling Boone about Elvis signing with RCA. So you clearly didn't explain yourself properly.


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Re: The Pied Piper of Cleveland

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Post by mysterytrainrideson »

Channeling Elvis wrote:
mysterytrainrideson wrote:
Channeling Elvis wrote:Interestingly enough, Scotty had very little recognition of the Cleveland concert when I interviewed him and he doesn't even mention it in his book, although he mentions the Circle Theater show.
Yeah, Scotty's memory isn't that great. He doesn't remember "Harbour Lights" or "Little Mama". But i would have thought he'd remember a film being made.
I interviewed him quite a while ago and he had very clear memories of some things, but not others. I wonder if all of those shows they were doing at the time, racing from town to town, didn't all blend together at some point so that the Cleveland gig doesn't stand out in his mind. Too bad D.J. wasn't there or I would have asked him about it too. Of course, Randle's memories have to be taken with a generous grain of salt and we now see that Pat Boone, too, seems to have become fuzzy on this with the passing years.
John Lennon once said "someone who has done thousands of shows rarely remembers them". What he means is most shows are all the same except if something happens during a show that particularly stands out, like say, a fire or someone very important is watching a show, say the Queen for instance. Otherwise it's just the same routine all the time - up in the morning, travel thousands of mile, hotel room, showtime, bed....samething next day.
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Re: The Pied Piper of Cleveland

#1339039

Post by poormadpeter »

mysterytrainrideson wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
mysterytrainrideson wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
davide wrote:From the book ' The Blue Moon Boys - The Story Of Elvis Presley's Band by Ken Burke and Dan Griffin.

David
Thanks for this. It's odd that Pat Boone remembers Randle telling him that he had signed with RCA... a whole month before it actually happened!
Or it could be Boone misremembers....though the selling of the contract was certainly in the talks at that point and Randle knew all about it as he played a part in it, trying to bring Columbia Records into it etc.

Or maybe Randle was talking "out of his backside" to Boone that day in Oct '55. Sorry couldn't resist. :D
If he was trying to bring Columbia into it at that time (which is probably true) then he wouldn't have said that Elvis had signed to RCA! My point, which you clearly missed, is that this is another example of an unreliable interviewee (in this case Boone).
I haven't "clearly missed" anything...you hadn't mentioned anything as an example of an "unreliable interviewee" on the post, just that you thought it "odd" Randle telling Boone about Elvis signing with RCA. So you clearly didn't explain yourself properly.
An interviewee is unreliable is they get their basic facts wrong. This should not need explaining.



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Re: The Pied Piper of Cleveland

#1339120

Post by drjohncarpenter »

mysterytrainrideson wrote:
mysterytrainrideson wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:The unsourced clipping is not from a newspaper but Billboard magazine.

Here's the complete page:


Image

Billboard - May 5, 1956
Note: interesting article on how R&B originals doing better than milquetoast white covers (i.e. Pat Boone)

---

The backstage footage with Liberace and brother George, and "Blue Suede Shoes" on stage, is apparently from opening night at the New Frontier, Monday, April 23, 1956.
Thanks for posting the whole billboard page, Doc, much appreciated.
I must add, also, that the four song concert from Vegas that was recorded, incidently, cames from the same date as this billboard page you've posted.
Close. The performance issued by RCA comes from the 5-06-1956 CS.

FWIW, I suspect he did more than 4 songs at that show, but the full tape did not survive.


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Re: The Pied Piper of Cleveland

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Post by mysterytrainrideson »

drjohncarpenter wrote:
mysterytrainrideson wrote:
mysterytrainrideson wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:The unsourced clipping is not from a newspaper but Billboard magazine.

Here's the complete page:


Image

Billboard - May 5, 1956
Note: interesting article on how R&B originals doing better than milquetoast white covers (i.e. Pat Boone)

---

The backstage footage with Liberace and brother George, and "Blue Suede Shoes" on stage, is apparently from opening night at the New Frontier, Monday, April 23, 1956.
Thanks for posting the whole billboard page, Doc, much appreciated.
I must add, also, that the four song concert from Vegas that was recorded, incidently, cames from the same date as this billboard page you've posted.
Close. The performance issued by RCA comes from the 5-06-1956 CS.

FWIW, I suspect he did more than 4 songs at that show, but the full tape did not survive.
Yes, i did realise the date was a day out and i did delete my post, but obviously it hadn't deleted sooner enough at your end.

Yes, i would imagine he did more than four songs.

Btw, i can't work out what FWIW is....


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Re: The Pied Piper of Cleveland

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Post by JimmyCool »

mysterytrainrideson wrote:Btw, i can't work out what FWIW is....
"For what it's worth."


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Re: The Pied Piper of Cleveland

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Post by Channeling Elvis »

Can you imagine Tom Cruise playing Bill Randle?
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Re: The Pied Piper of Cleveland

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Post by mysterytrainrideson »

Channeling Elvis wrote:Can you imagine Tom Cruise playing Bill Randle?
No i can't.


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Re: The Pied Piper of Cleveland

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Post by Channeling Elvis »

Here's a JPEG of the same article:
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Re: The Pied Piper of Cleveland

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Post by jurasic1968 »

Channeling Elvis wrote:Here's a JPEG of the same article:
Thanks a lot for this article. Can you imagine Bill Randle managing Elvis Presley instead of Colonel Tom Parker?



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Re: The Pied Piper of Cleveland

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Post by Channeling Elvis »

jurasic1968 wrote:
Channeling Elvis wrote:Here's a JPEG of the same article:
Thanks a lot for this article. Can you imagine Bill Randle managing Elvis Presley instead of Colonel Tom Parker?
Now there's a thought! I'm not sure it wouldn't have been worse! At least with the Colonel, you knew where you stood. Randle strikes me as very mercurial and evasive. He claimed to have all sorts of connections, but I'm not sure he was cut out to be anyone's manager. I also think he was more concerned with promoting himself than he would be in his clients.


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Re: The Pied Piper of Cleveland

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Post by mysterytrainrideson »

Channeling Elvis wrote:
jurasic1968 wrote:
Channeling Elvis wrote:Here's a JPEG of the same article:
Thanks a lot for this article. Can you imagine Bill Randle managing Elvis Presley instead of Colonel Tom Parker?
Now there's a thought! I'm not sure it wouldn't have been worse! At least with the Colonel, you knew where you stood. Randle strikes me as very mercurial and evasive. He claimed to have all sorts of connections, but I'm not sure he was cut out to be anyone's manager. I also think he was more concerned with promoting himself than he would be in his clients.
It is an interesting thought - Randle being Presley's manager and it's hard to say what kind of job he would have done of it. It seems that he did know a lot of people in the music biz and that he was dealing with the Aberbachs at one point (Col's connection's with show biz was only with RCA) and had a lot of connections in New York. As i said earlier, it was Randle that got Presley on his TV debut, apparently. Which is probably why he was given the task of introducing Presley to national television because he knew all the people concerned, as where the Col didn't.

One thing is 100% certain about Randle...he certainly knew a lot more about music then the Col ever did. What with being a top DJ he was known for having the ear for what the teenagers wanted and what they prefered listening to on the radio.


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Re: The Pied Piper of Cleveland

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Post by mike edwards66 »

Channeling Elvis wrote:Can you imagine Tom Cruise playing Bill Randle?
Yes. Tom is a great actor.


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Re: The Pied Piper of Cleveland

#1339732

Post by poormadpeter »

mysterytrainrideson wrote:
One thing is 100% certain about Randle...he certainly knew a lot more about music then the Col ever did.
He was also only interested in himself, just as the Colonel was.



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Re: The Pied Piper of Cleveland

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Post by Channeling Elvis »

Here's the text from my book that describes how Elvis got signed for "Stage Show," which did not involve Bill Randle at all:

". . . a photo of Elvis and a promotional record arrived on the desk of Jack Philbin, executive producer for television comedian Jackie Gleason. It remains a mystery as to who sent the promotional materials, but it may have been Anne Fulchino, publicity director at RCA, who took a personal hand in promoting Elvis.

"Jerry Katz, an agent with MCA Artists, Ltd., a rival of William Morris, represented Gleason and recalls that 'Jack Philbin called me into his office. He showed me the picture and played the record and I said, "He’s swell." He said, "I think we ought to put him on. Let’s go to Gleason," who finally okayed it. I wanted to tie Elvis up for a long time,' which is why Katz retained the option to extend Presley’s run on Stage Show at an increased salary. 'I thought if he took off, we’ve got a real bargain here. It was just a feel. He sure was something different.' Although Gleason later exaggerated his interest in Elvis and his belief in his potential (he reportedly called him 'Brando with a guitar'), he did approve the booking.

"Since Elvis had not signed with any talent agency, Katz asked his friend Steve Yates, an agent who specialized in country and western acts, to approach Elvis’ management with the Stage Show offer. 'Yates was a friend of mine,' Katz said. 'Presley had no agent to negotiate for him, so I gave it to Yates as a gift.' Yates then spoke to Parker, who was interested but demanded a higher fee, which he got. The Stage Show contract, signed on December 19, 1955, committed Elvis to four appearances at $1,250 each, with an option for two more at $1,500 each, which Gleason would have to exercise by February 4, the date of Presley’s second appearance."


No one mentioned Randle being involved in any of this,and no one seemed to know why Randle was chosen to introduce Elvis or who contacted him. I don't know what connections Randle had with television people or specifically CBS or the Gleason people. In any case, Colonel had signed as Elvis' manager by then, so Randle was out of the running on that by the time this was going on, so he would have had no motive to work for Elvis at all. Randle was a well known DJ in Cleveland and New York at the time and he had talked Elvis up for a while in his columns even before the October 1955 shooting of "Pied Piper of Cleveland," so maybe he was chosen on that basis or talked himself into the job. Randle liked getting attention for himself and he would have grabbed a chance for a national TV gig.


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Re: The Pied Piper of Cleveland

#1339810

Post by jurasic1968 »

Allen, with all the respect for your opinion and your text from the book, I strongly believe that Bill Randle could have been a better manager than the Colonel. He knew a lot about music and he was an intelectual and sophisticated type of people, which the Colonel Tom Parker clearly wasn't. I do not like to rewrite history, but I think that after 1960 Bill Randle could be a better manager for Elvis.




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Re: The Pied Piper of Cleveland

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Post by mysterytrainrideson »

I can't for the life of me remember where i read that Randle had something to do with setting up Presley's TV dubut, but i definitely read it. It went something like, Randle got the 1st three appearances and the Col extended the other three. It seems to me that Randle had to have some sort of connection to get the job.

I have been flipping through some of my books on the subject - can't find the one where Randle supposedly set up the 1st three appearances. But here's what Peter Guralnick says in "Last Train" about it:
P. 176-177 "Randle had predicted all but one of the top five best sellers of 1954, discovered Johnny Ray, changed the name of the Crew-Cuts (from the Canadaires) as well as finding them their first hit, drove a jaguar, and made $100,000 a year, with his Saturday-afternoon CBS network in New York the lastest in his series of unprecedented accomplshments".

P. 177 Guralnick says Randle invited Bob Neal to stay over at his hiuse to talk business - they both agreed that TV exposure is what was needed and Randle give Neal a name of a contact for the "Arthur Godfrey Show"

P. 244 Randle used to plug CBS' "Stage Show" on his Saturday-afternoon New York radio network show.

So with all this CBS and TV connections in New York probably lies the answer to his getting the job of introducing Presley on TV. Randle had obviously mentioned to CBS that he had worked with Presley before and of course being a top DJ in the area and promoting "Stage Show" on his radio show. Guessing, they probably said something like "you do the the introductiin because we don't know this Col fellow" or something along those lines. Plus according to Guralnick "Stage Show" was in bad need of ratings, as at the time the ratings was very low and abiut to be withdrawn for a season.

Back to the "Pied Piper" movie. In Ger Rijff's excellent "Memphis Lonesome" book, on P. 23 there is a letter printed to Bill Randle from Al Calder urging Randle to clear 4 songs for the movie shirt in 1958. Sadly, i don't know how to scan things on here so i'll write that letter

R K O M U S I C DIVISION
RKO TELERADIO PICTURES. INC
1440 BROADWAY
NEW YORK 18, N Y

MR. Bill Randle
Station W. E. R. E.
1501 Euclid Avenue
Cleveland, Ohio

HHOLLYWOOD OFFICE
680 Gower Street
Hollywood, Cal.

Dear Bill;
The following songs must be cleared with the music firms before Universal can released your short. Can you contact the publishers and have them and you a letter to this effect.

Ain't That A Shame
Moments To Remember
Rock Around The Clock
Rock A Beatin Boogie

Also do you still have the written release by Pat Boone, The Four Lads, Bill Haley etc.? These will also be essential before release.

I could work nothing else out with Tom Mead at Universal other than releasing the movie after January 1958. I will get you a letter to this effect and also the areas it will be shown.

If you can expedite the above letter it will help.

Your Sincerely

Al CALDER.


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