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Re: Let's Talk Jackie Wilson...

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:04 am

Revelator wrote: from a technical standpoint, could "sing rings around Elvis," as the Sweet Inspirations once said of Aretha.
What, all of the Sweet Inspirations said that, in unison.

Revelator wrote:
mike edwards66 wrote:Elvis on the other hand, never flattered to deceive, at his peak he never needed to try and impress, he just did.


How did Jackie Wilson supposedly "deceive" his audience, when he clearly pulled off the vocal feats he attempted?
Flattering to deceive implies no deception, it does, however, imply disappointment. For all his show-ponying, Wilson's vocals on Danny Boy do not truly engage the listener. One is left to admire his high-wire vocalizing, without ever really caring if he falls. Style over substance, if you will.


Revelator wrote:It's sad that your Elvis idolatry extends to trashing other singers with such petty sophistry.
Not so sir, I intend no deception, and I do not worship the King. I do, however, take exeption your own petty sophistry regarding Wilson.


There will only ever be two, and rightly so, contenders for the mantle of the greatest popular voice of the 20th century, namely, the King and Ol' Blue Eyes. Orbison and Wilson et al will always get an honorable mention, but ultimately, they are also-rans.

Re: Let's Talk Jackie Wilson...

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:24 am

mike edwards66 wrote:What, all of the Sweet Inspirations said that, in unison.


Should any of the Sweets have disagreed, I'll let you know.

Flattering to deceive implies no deception, it does, however, imply disappointment.


So why bother using the word deceive in the first place?! Your explanation implies that you don't know what you're typing.

For all his show-ponying, Wilson's vocals on Danny Boy do not truly engage the listener. One is left to admire his high-wire vocalizing, without ever really caring if he falls. Style over substance, if you will.


In a great performance style is inseparable from substance. And it is nonsense to say "Wilson's vocals on Danny Boy do not truly engage the listener" when its plain that thousands of listeners have been engaged, including those who made his version a hit, not to mention myself and many others on this forum. Better to type "Wilson's vocals on Danny Boy do not truly engage one listener, and that God knows why!"

There will only ever be two, and rightly so, contenders for the mantle of the greatest popular voice of the 20th century, namely, the King and Ol' Blue Eyes.


This discussion was never about who is greater than who. It was about singers who or may not have been more technical gifted than Elvis. And as I have stated many times over, even if they were better gifted, that doesn't necessarily make them the greater singer.

Re: Let's Talk Jackie Wilson...

Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:46 am

Revelator wrote:
mike edwards66 wrote:What, all of the Sweet Inspirations said that, in unison.
Should any of the Sweets have disagreed, I'll let you know.

Flattering to deceive implies no deception, it does, however, imply disappointment.
So why bother using the word deceive in the first place?!


Cos that's the phrase my friend, cos that's the phrase.

Should anyone come up with the phrase 'flatter to disappoint', I'll let you know. :wink:
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... to-deceive

Re: Let's Talk Jackie Wilson...

Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:02 am

mike edwards66 wrote:Cos that's the phrase my friend, cos that's the phrase.


Then you have misused it. You might be left cold by the excesses of "Danny Boy," but it is hard to say how you might be disappointed in the vocals, since they did everything they attempted and more. The example sentence given by the dictionary you cited--"They flatter to deceive, luring innocents with sympathetic words and false promises" indicates that deception can be implied by the phrase. Someone who gives you more than you bargained for is doing the opposite of flattering to deceive.

Re: Let's Talk Jackie Wilson...

Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:09 am

Revelator wrote:
mike edwards66 wrote:Cos that's the phrase my friend, cos that's the phrase.


Then you have misused it. You might be left cold by the excesses of "Danny Boy," but it is hard to say how you might be disappointed in the vocals, since they did everything they attempted and more. The example sentence given by the dictionary you cited--"They flatter to deceive, luring innocents with sympathetic words and false promises" indicates that deception can be implied by the phrase. Someone who gives you more than you bargained for is doing the opposite of flattering to deceive.


I think we've exhausted this, I know I have.

See you on the next one :wink: