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Re: 'The Wonder of You' Question

Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:02 am

skatterbrane wrote:Well that is my theory, they SCREWED UP. Yes, whoever may have picked the tracks, but in doing so, they mistakenly picked non-master tracks on these 3. Plus there were a few other glitches too, like that "click" or "snap" on Hound Dog they also rectified.


Again, no. There were no "mistakes." As I've already said quite clearly, they were conscious decisions. And that's inexcusable.

They chose these alternates for "audio" reasons. Research the interviews given at the time.

Re: 'The Wonder of You' Question

Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:10 am

skatterbrane wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
skatterbrane wrote:Okay. Do you know why the 3 incorrect takes were subsequently replaced with the masters on later pressings of the US version of Elv1s?
(Now And Then There's) A Fool Such As I
A Big Hunk O' Love
The Wonder Of You

And on The Wonder Of You, they updated this CD with the correct take, but it is the undubbed version (thankfully) It is obvious that when they replaced the incorrect takes with the master takes, the same production standards were used. (the remixing, remastering style is implemented).


Probably someone read the informed comments on FECC and realized they screwed up. ;-)

If the 2005 HITSTORY collection, which is what I assume you are referring to, uses the undubbed single master of "The Wonder Of You" then they still don't get it. That's not the single released in 1970. The backing vocals were redone because the original recording betrayed that the Sweets singing off-key.

Well that is my theory, they SCREWED UP. Yes, whoever may have picked the tracks, but in doing so, they mistakenly picked non-master tracks on these 3. Plus there were a few other glitches too, like that "click" or "snap" on Hound Dog they also rectified.

You may have your "theory" but your "theory" isn't fact. Bendeth chose those alternate tracks and his decision was ultimately approved.
You'd have to ask Ernst why they chose to use the original master takes on Hitstory.

Re: 'The Wonder of You' Question

Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:35 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
skatterbrane wrote:Well that is my theory, they SCREWED UP. Yes, whoever may have picked the tracks, but in doing so, they mistakenly picked non-master tracks on these 3. Plus there were a few other glitches too, like that "click" or "snap" on Hound Dog they also rectified.


Again, no. There were no "mistakes." As I've already said quite clearly, they were conscious decisions. And that's inexcusable.

They chose these alternates for "audio" reasons. Research the interviews given at the time.



Seems like a flimsy reason for including the alternates.

If "audio" was the reason, then they could have chosen another 8--12 alternates if all they wanted to do was improve the audio.

But, I can't take Bendith at his word on anything since he came on this very forum and
made the comment that the master of "hound dog" always had a click in it.

Only a handful of the masters on that collection had great audio.

Re: 'The Wonder of You' Question

Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:30 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
DayVee Bee wrote:I think you will find that the master of "A Big Hunk O' Love" is take 3 with the piano solo spliced in from take 4 (take 4’s piano solo + Jordanaires bass vocals, comes in just as Elvis sings, “That’s right...Uh... (Hiccup!), [0:40] then BOOM, splice [0:57], just before the "You’re just a natural born beehive…” & you’re back in take 3) :)


I can't really remember, the main thing is the version on ELV1S 30 #1 Hits is not the single everyone heard, bought and saw go to #1 in 1959. I'll update my post, though. Thanks.

Your posts have been very good here, Doc. I don't know what you had to update as you had it right; the master of Big Hunk Of Love is a splice of takes 3 and 4. The piano solo of take 4 is spliced onto take 3, replacing its piano solo. IIRC, the complete take 3 was released by mistake the first time on The Complete 50's Masters. Also, on the FTD of Gold Records Volume II, the correct master is used and all alternate takes of the song are also included. This is a tremendous FTD.

I can't believe the alternates of A Fool Such As I or Wonder Of You could have been mistakes and it is just wrong that an album of Elvis' number one hits would have anything but the original charting versions on it. Why were later editions of that CD corrected? IMO, because they got a lot of flack from deeper Elvis fans about their "mistakes."

Re: 'The Wonder of You' Question

Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:47 am

stevelecher wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
DayVee Bee wrote:I think you will find that the master of "A Big Hunk O' Love" is take 3 with the piano solo spliced in from take 4 (take 4’s piano solo + Jordanaires bass vocals, comes in just as Elvis sings, “That’s right...Uh... (Hiccup!), [0:40] then BOOM, splice [0:57], just before the "You’re just a natural born beehive…” & you’re back in take 3) :)


I can't really remember, the main thing is the version on ELV1S 30 #1 Hits is not the single everyone heard, bought and saw go to #1 in 1959. I'll update my post, though. Thanks.

Your posts have been very good here, Doc. I don't know what you had to update as you had it right; the master of Big Hunk Of Love is a splice of takes 3 and 4. The piano solo of take 4 is spliced onto take 3, replacing its piano solo. IIRC, the complete take 3 was released by mistake the first time on The Complete 50's Masters. Also, on the FTD of Gold Records Volume II, the correct master is used and all alternate takes of the song are also included. This is a tremendous FTD.

I can't believe the alternates of A Fool Such As I or Wonder Of You could have been mistakes and it is just wrong that an album of Elvis' number one hits would have anything but the original charting versions on it. Why were later editions of that CD corrected? IMO, because they got a lot of flack from deeper Elvis fans about their "mistakes."


So the versions of E1 on sale don't have the alt takes Bendeth used in 2002?

Re: 'The Wonder of You' Question

Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:01 am

That's what I've read on this thread and a couple of others. Can't say for sure though as I never bought a subsequent version of the CD. Sounds like there are still problems though, if they used an undubbed version of Wonder Of You. They're still not using the original, hit version in that case.

Re: 'The Wonder of You' Question

Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:50 am

stevelecher wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
DayVee Bee wrote:I think you will find that the master of "A Big Hunk O' Love" is take 3 with the piano solo spliced in from take 4 (take 4’s piano solo + Jordanaires bass vocals, comes in just as Elvis sings, “That’s right...Uh... (Hiccup!), [0:40] then BOOM, splice [0:57], just before the "You’re just a natural born beehive…” & you’re back in take 3) :)


I can't really remember, the main thing is the version on ELV1S 30 #1 Hits is not the single everyone heard, bought and saw go to #1 in 1959. I'll update my post, though. Thanks.

Your posts have been very good here, Doc. I don't know what you had to update as you had it right; the master of Big Hunk Of Love is a splice of takes 3 and 4. The piano solo of take 4 is spliced onto take 3, replacing its piano solo. IIRC, the complete take 3 was released by mistake the first time on The Complete 50's Masters. Also, on the FTD of Gold Records Volume II, the correct master is used and all alternate takes of the song are also included. This is a tremendous FTD.

I can't believe the alternates of A Fool Such As I or Wonder Of You could have been mistakes and it is just wrong that an album of Elvis' number one hits would have anything but the original charting versions on it. Why were later editions of that CD corrected? IMO, because they got a lot of flack from deeper Elvis fans about their "mistakes."


Dammit! People here are making me doubt my own genius. ;-)

Re: 'The Wonder of You' Question

Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:51 am

TINML wrote:So the versions of E1 on sale don't have the alt takes Bendeth used in 2002?


I doubt they updated the 2002 release, but made the change when it was included in 2005's HITSTORY.

Re: 'The Wonder of You' Question

Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:39 am

Isn't it getting close to time for Sony / Legacy to come up with something that will surpass E1. Last time I checked the "Top Ten Hits" / "Number One Hits" came out in 1987. E1 and E2 came out in 2002 / 2003. My, the time flies. Very soon 2017 will be upon us and I would presume some sort of greatest hits package. Maybe instead of focusing solely on Number One Hits or Top Ten Hits, we could finally get a cohesive, comprehensive compilation that makes sense for everybody. It doesn't have to be all number ones or top ten hits. It just has to be songs that every fan could agree upon belong on a greatest hits / greatest recordings compilation.

I tried starting it in this thread.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=80879&start=25&hilit=Daryl

At the time, the conclusion was that these 12 belonged on such a set for sure.

The first 11 were included on Rolling Stone magazine's 500 Greatest Songs list. I've included their rankings on that list beside each title.

All Shook Up (#361)
Blue Suede Shoes (#430)
Can't Help Falling In Love (#403)
Don't Be Cruel (#200)
Heartbreak Hotel (#45)
Hound Dog (#19)
Jailhouse Rock (#67)
Love Me Tender (#444)
Mystery Train (#77)
Suspicious Minds (#91)
That's All Right (#113)

I also included Elvis' recording of "Are You Lonesome Tonight?" as it has been included in the Grammy Hall of Fame.

Anybody want to try to add to those 12.

Re: 'The Wonder of You' Question

Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:42 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
stevelecher wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
DayVee Bee wrote:I think you will find that the master of "A Big Hunk O' Love" is take 3 with the piano solo spliced in from take 4 (take 4’s piano solo + Jordanaires bass vocals, comes in just as Elvis sings, “That’s right...Uh... (Hiccup!), [0:40] then BOOM, splice [0:57], just before the "You’re just a natural born beehive…” & you’re back in take 3) :)


I can't really remember, the main thing is the version on ELV1S 30 #1 Hits is not the single everyone heard, bought and saw go to #1 in 1959. I'll update my post, though. Thanks.

Your posts have been very good here, Doc. I don't know what you had to update as you had it right; the master of Big Hunk Of Love is a splice of takes 3 and 4. The piano solo of take 4 is spliced onto take 3, replacing its piano solo. IIRC, the complete take 3 was released by mistake the first time on The Complete 50's Masters. Also, on the FTD of Gold Records Volume II, the correct master is used and all alternate takes of the song are also included. This is a tremendous FTD.

I can't believe the alternates of A Fool Such As I or Wonder Of You could have been mistakes and it is just wrong that an album of Elvis' number one hits would have anything but the original charting versions on it. Why were later editions of that CD corrected? IMO, because they got a lot of flack from deeper Elvis fans about their "mistakes."


Dammit! People here are making me doubt my own genius. ;-)


The thing is, Bendeth took flak for using the wrong takes. So did Ernst for using the complete take 3 on the 50's box set. I remember Goldmine or one of those types of magazines had a letter in it from a fan who bitched about this in the Letters to the Editor section. No one is immune to mistakes.

Re: 'The Wonder of You' Question

Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:13 am

The thing is the facts here just keep getting rewritten, like the new Testament. I did not have the original masters, in fact no one did, some had been stolen and some were lost. I am talking about the multi tracks not the stereo masters. On Wonder of you, there were no horns, we worked with what we had. There is not one possible reason in the world we would have or wanted alt takes. This is the truth and will never change. The record was approved with what resources we had, and if someone did have them, they sabotaged us.

Re: 'The Wonder of You' Question

Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:08 pm

Hi there!! :D :D :D.

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Mike Windgren wrote:I checked the booklet and my copy states it is David Bendeth but there are also two other names: Ernst Jorgensen & Roger Semon.


Thanks.

You seem to have a lot of trouble understanding the credits in this 2002 CD release.

IIRC, Ernst and Roger are credited because they provided for Bendeth and his team (he did not work alone) the song titles which would be considered #1 hits, as per the project. They had nothing to do with the use of alternate takes, or any of the decisions made in regards to the audio. Again, read the review and interview link I provided for more insight.


Doc, I have no trouble understanding the credits, the booklet clearly states: David Bendeth sole producer for this cd. Of course he has a team he couldn´t make it by himself but he is the final responsible person on this project :wink:.

You heard lately about the polemic Spanish famous Architect Santiago Calatrava?. Well lately he have had several problems with recently constructions he designed like the "The Constitution Bridge in Venecia" & "Palau de les Arts in Valencia", he has a team as well but he is the final responsible person for this.

After reading just the last reaction from the producer David Bendeth on here, I think in some ways Ernst jorgensen & Roger Semon are also responsible for this project as they were the researchers for the material and the material he requested was not provided :roll:.

Maybe you have a different booklet please post a picture of it. Thanks!. Bye for now :smt006.

Re: 'The Wonder of You' Question

Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:20 pm

I cannot stomach E1's mix of "Way Down".

The two bass guitars competing against each other on the intro sound clumsy.
In addition, Elvis' vocal slip [muted on the original master] heard at around 2:00 is poor.
This error first turned up [in a better context] on Vol. 2 of the Our Memories album.

phpBB [video]

Re: 'The Wonder of You' Question

Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:43 pm

As for the NEXT greatest hit compilation? I would suggest a collection of the A and B sides of ALL the 45 singles that were Gold or Platinum. (no 45 EP tracks please) I think this would make an even 100 tracks. (not including digital sales, just actual sales of physical 45 singles)

Re: 'The Wonder of You' Question

Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:22 pm

Daryl wrote:The thing is, Bendeth took flak for using the wrong takes. So did Ernst for using the complete take 3 on the 50's box set. I remember Goldmine or one of those types of magazines had a letter in it from a fan who bitched about this in the Letters to the Editor section. No one is immune to mistakes.


The master take was always the desired cut for the '50s box, using the alternate was not a conscious choice, as was the case with the tracks on ELV1S: 30 #1 Hits.

How many times must this be said before it sinks in? These are facts.

Re: 'The Wonder of You' Question

Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:26 pm

Mike Windgren wrote:After reading just the last reaction from the producer David Bendeth on here, I think in some ways Ernst jorgensen & Roger Semon are also responsible for this project ...


You are mistaken. All track selections were made by David Bendeth. Period.

Why you continue to try and throw Ernst Jørgensen and Roger Semon under the bus, despite the facts presented multiple times on this topic, is strange.

Re: 'The Wonder of You' Question

Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:28 pm

elvisalisellers wrote:I cannot stomach E1's mix of "Way Down".

The two bass guitars competing against each other on the intro sound clumsy.
In addition, Elvis' vocal slip [muted on the original master] heard at around 2:00 is poor.
This error first turned up [in a better context] on Vol. 2 of the Our Memories album.

phpBB [video]



The only conclusion one may draw is that the original 1977 single was not auditioned in the development process, so it was assumed Felton Jarvis had left it in. Of course, we all know he did not.

Re: 'The Wonder of You' Question

Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:06 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
TINML wrote:So the versions of E1 on sale don't have the alt takes Bendeth used in 2002?


I doubt they updated the 2002 release, but made the change when it was included in 2005's HITSTORY.


Thanks Doc, believe it or not I want to get a new copy before it goes OOP since I like a few of the Bendeth mixes and I've worn out my copy.

Re: 'The Wonder of You' Question

Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:09 pm

Hi there!! :D :D :D.

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Mike Windgren wrote:After reading just the last reaction from the producer David Bendeth on here, I think in some ways Ernst jorgensen & Roger Semon are also responsible for this project ...


You are mistaken. All track selections were made by David Bendeth. Period.

Why you continue to try and throw Ernst Jørgensen and Roger Semon under the bus, despite the facts presented multiple times on this topic, is strange.


No, I am not mistaken :wink:. I clearly stated that the responsible person was David Bendeth for this project, but you didn´t quoted that now on your answer. However you stated since the beggining that it was 3 persons: David Bendeth, Ted Jensen & George Marino. Now you say it is only David Bendeth. Please put your records straight.

I wonder if you have the same cd as me or you don´t have it at all :?. Mine is the U.S edition.

I will ask you once again and I am being very polite, please post a picture of the same page of the booklet as I did :wink:. You have to prove the facts.... Thanks!. Bye for now :smt006.

Re: 'The Wonder of You' Question

Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:12 pm

You miss the point.

Re: 'The Wonder of You' Question

Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:13 pm

TINML wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
TINML wrote:So the versions of E1 on sale don't have the alt takes Bendeth used in 2002?


I doubt they updated the 2002 release, but made the change when it was included in 2005's HITSTORY.


Thanks Doc, believe it or not I want to get a new copy before it goes OOP since I like a few of the Bendeth mixes and I've worn out my copy.


You wore out a CD?

Re: 'The Wonder of You' Question

Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:54 pm

Not sure why this continues to be so hotly debated; particularly because the CD in question has become mostly irrelevant. ELV1S 30 #1 Hits was an artistic failure; and Bendeth was the driving force behind the sound and tapes chosen for remastering/remixing. That said, BMG got exactly what it wanted. BMG was clearly not looking for a complete collection of number one recordings presented in historically accurate mixes and representations. BMG was looking for a mainstream hits collection at the height of the CD boom that would have some appeal to a wider range of consumers. BMG employed a producer that it felt could create a modernized ambiance for Elvis' work. The CD sold over 8 million copies and generated large revenue streams. It also was a strong promotional vehicle for Elvis Presley regardless if it did not authentically represent Elvis Presley's music. The bottom line is that ELV1S 30 #1 Hits was a financial success and an artistic failure.

Some fans (myself included) felt that BMG had the opportunity to finally create a one-stop, comprehensive, ultimate #1 hits collection that could stand the test of time, and that could replace so many of the other hits compilations saturating the Presley CD bins. BMG chose to go a different, short-sighted route. And in some ways, it doesn't really matter because the marketing perception of having one elite collection means nothing in this current climate of physical music retail.

Re: 'The Wonder of You' Question

Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:09 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
stevelecher wrote:
Eap3577 wrote:I think RCA picked the right version to release on single / On Stage album. 30#1s is also a good performance but can't beat the single version.

Yes, the single version is far superior. It's unbelievable the inferior version was used on 30#1's.


One of the major drawbacks to ELV1S: 30 #1 Hits was the producer's decision to include several "alternate" recordings. In each example they were markedly inferior to the ones that ruled the charts and got all the radio airplay, and it remains infuriating that millions who bought the album assumed these tracks were the ones Elvis approved. A major-label archival release should never allow such mistakes to be made, no matter what the extenuating circumstances.


Agree. Horrible decision. So it was on purpose?. Now Im even more pissed off!

Re: 'The Wonder of You' Question

Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:16 pm

Daryl wrote:Isn't it getting close to time for Sony / Legacy to come up with something that will surpass E1. Last time I checked the "Top Ten Hits" / "Number One Hits" came out in 1987. E1 and E2 came out in 2002 / 2003. My, the time flies. Very soon 2017 will be upon us and I would presume some sort of greatest hits package. Maybe instead of focusing solely on Number One Hits or Top Ten Hits, we could finally get a cohesive, comprehensive compilation that makes sense for everybody. It doesn't have to be all number ones or top ten hits. It just has to be songs that every fan could agree upon belong on a greatest hits / greatest recordings compilation.

I tried starting it in this thread.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=80879&start=25&hilit=Daryl

At the time, the conclusion was that these 12 belonged on such a set for sure.

The first 11 were included on Rolling Stone magazine's 500 Greatest Songs list. I've included their rankings on that list beside each title.

All Shook Up (#361)
Blue Suede Shoes (#430)
Can't Help Falling In Love (#403)
Don't Be Cruel (#200)
Heartbreak Hotel (#45)
Hound Dog (#19)
Jailhouse Rock (#67)
Love Me Tender (#444)
Mystery Train (#77)
Suspicious Minds (#91)
That's All Right (#113)

I also included Elvis' recording of "Are You Lonesome Tonight?" as it has been included in the Grammy Hall of Fame.

Anybody want to try to add to those 12.


Hitstory corrected the mistakes made on 30 #1s and added a third CD. To date, this is the best Elvis compilation in my opinion. Why do you need another to further confuse the consumer? Elvis 75 had a shot at being best , but by including Adam & Evil , they blew it. A lot of artists labels put out the complete A&B sides or EP collection on CD. Maybe this would be an interesting idea, but I cant get excited anymore about reissued material. Too many years have passed with the label just putting out rehashed product.

Re: 'The Wonder of You' Question

Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:24 pm

Suspicious Minds and Burning Love are killers on this release..thank you David.... ::rocks .....