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Legacy release coming of Elvis Live In Memphis

Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:02 pm

Jamie wrote:On PFAP every little nuance and inflection in Elvis' voice is captured in all its glory. It may be heavily compressed but to say its atrocious is ridiculous. How can a mix that captures Elvis so well be that bad, surely Elvis sounding greatt is the main point isn't it? I think there is irony in a lot of comments on here not least how PFAP is slated for its heavy compression yet Memphis FTD enjoyed despite suffering the same fate.

Like I said, the compression on the FTD is its only real downside but it does not compare to the streets apart destruction imposed on the PFAP music, where compression was used as an EQ tool (!) during the mixing stage to create the finished, everything gasping for air result that is the atrocious product they put out. FTD's Live in Memphis release does not sound this way, despite some compression in mastering.

I demonstrated back when PFAP came out that the well mastered original mix, volume matched to the PFAP mix showed that there was no great balance improvement and indeed that all the air and life around the instruments and Elvis' voice is to be found in the Anesini master of the 1972 show, which incidentally still features the best produced bass solo in Polk Salad Annie. The producers foolishly decided to use the Coldplay contemporary rock mixing guy to create a "modern" mess of a product where all the music is fighting for space. And all this under the banner of putting the listener in the 10th row (or whatever was cited). Ironic that a lowly, maligned FTD product from 2004 achieved the 10th row experience almost by accident, without the Coldplay gimmick mix-man. Perhaps Sony should have just gotten Chris Theis to mix the PFAP tapes, and given the mastering to Lene Reidel, they more likely would have gotten the desired results and a more listenable product!!

Re: Legacy release coming of Elvis Live In Memphis

Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:30 pm

Matthew wrote:
Jamie wrote:On PFAP every little nuance and inflection in Elvis' voice is captured in all its glory. It may be heavily compressed but to say its atrocious is ridiculous. How can a mix that captures Elvis so well be that bad, surely Elvis sounding greatt is the main point isn't it? I think there is irony in a lot of comments on here not least how PFAP is slated for its heavy compression yet Memphis FTD enjoyed despite suffering the same fate.

Like I said, the compression on the FTD is its only real downside but it does not compare to the streets apart destruction imposed on the PFAP music, where compression was used as an EQ tool (!) during the mixing stage to create the finished, everything gasping for air result that is the atrocious product they put out. FTD's Live in Memphis release does not sound this way, despite some compression in mastering.

I demonstrated back when PFAP came out that the well mastered original mix, volume matched to the PFAP mix showed that there was no great balance improvement and indeed that all the air and life around the instruments and Elvis' voice is to be found in the Anesini master of the 1972 show, which incidentally still features the best produced bass solo in Polk Salad Annie. The producers foolishly decided to use the Coldplay contemporary rock mixing guy to create a "modern" mess of a product where all the music is fighting for space. And all this under the banner of putting the listener in the 10th row (or whatever was cited). Ironic that a lowly, maligned FTD product from 2004 achieved the 10th row experience almost by accident, without the Coldplay gimmick mix-man. Perhaps Sony should have just gotten Chris Theis to mix the PFAP tapes, and given the mastering to Lene Reidel, they more likely would have gotten the desired results and a more listenable product!!


Interesting opinion . I have all records volume matched. I still prefer PFAP, if only for that voice...every little nuance audible.


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Re: Legacy release coming of Elvis Live In Memphis

Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:13 pm

Matthew wrote:
Jamie wrote:On PFAP every little nuance and inflection in Elvis' voice is captured in all its glory. It may be heavily compressed but to say its atrocious is ridiculous. How can a mix that captures Elvis so well be that bad, surely Elvis sounding greatt is the main point isn't it? I think there is irony in a lot of comments on here not least how PFAP is slated for its heavy compression yet Memphis FTD enjoyed despite suffering the same fate.

Like I said, the compression on the FTD is its only real downside but it does not compare to the streets apart destruction imposed on the PFAP music, where compression was used as an EQ tool (!) during the mixing stage to create the finished, everything gasping for air result that is the atrocious product they put out. FTD's Live in Memphis release does not sound this way, despite some compression in mastering.

I demonstrated back when PFAP came out that the well mastered original mix, volume matched to the PFAP mix showed that there was no great balance improvement and indeed that all the air and life around the instruments and Elvis' voice is to be found in the Anesini master of the 1972 show, which incidentally still features the best produced bass solo in Polk Salad Annie. The producers foolishly decided to use the Coldplay contemporary rock mixing guy to create a "modern" mess of a product where all the music is fighting for space. And all this under the banner of putting the listener in the 10th row (or whatever was cited). Ironic that a lowly, maligned FTD product from 2004 achieved the 10th row experience almost by accident, without the Coldplay gimmick mix-man. Perhaps Sony should have just gotten Chris Theis to mix the PFAP tapes, and given the mastering to Lene Reidel, they more likely would have gotten the desired results and a more listenable product!!

Matthew, I never had a huge problem with the master when cranked up and I agree about the bass solo. But Elvis vocals always sound thin and strained to me. In fact I always put it down to EP doing three full on gigs in 24 hours. PFAP put that right and for me it sounds significantly better on vocals to my ears. Every breath is captured. But each to their own. The good thing is eee have a few options now to choose from and who knows one day we may get an FTD!

Cheers

Re: Legacy release coming of Elvis Live In Memphis

Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:28 pm

midnightx wrote:I am shocked at what was done to Elvis' vocals on this newest release of the Memphis show. His vocals should be front and center in any stereo, multitrack mix. Yet, on this newest release, there are many occasions where his vocals are fighting for space with the instrumentation and backing vocals.

Now that I've had a chance to hear the entire Cd through, I can understand what midnightx is saying here regarding the mix. The one number I found this most prevalent on is How Great Thou Art. On the "Lord help me Jesus..." chorus' Elvis' voice is drowned out by both the band and the background singers... I hate when they blend his voice with the background singers, particularly during a show like this one where Elvis' vocals are so strong. One thing many of the engineers that mix Elvis' live recordings fail to realize is that background singers are simply that... they should be in the background not on par with Elvis' vocals.
Anyway, for the most part I enjoy the new mix... I can't say I prefer it over the FTD, it's just something different.

Re: Legacy release coming of Elvis Live In Memphis

Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:50 pm

Who was that guy that liked his voice blended with backs up voices and band? Oh yes, that Elvis Presley ;)


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Re: Legacy release coming of Elvis Live In Memphis

Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:23 pm

We have the bootleg version. We have the FTD version and now we have the Legacy version.

They are all different. The mixes are all very different - the presentations all very different. We also have various versions of the original edit/album.

Choice. Tis a grand thing.

NONE of them are poor. They are all great and they ALL have their place in the collection. There are times when we will play a particular version and times when we will decide on one of the others.

Choice. Tis a grand thing.

Let's just be happy with what we have. Ernst has delivered yet again.There aren't many legit record companies who would offer such variants to the fans of one of their major artists. Us Elvis fans are lucky sons- of -biscuits!

Re: Legacy release coming of Elvis Live In Memphis

Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:43 pm

Sorry, but I don't think Ernst has delivered again. He had the wrong engineer work on this show. Not that he could have foreseen the substandard mix after all the praise the mix from the alternate Aloha show received; but upon hearing the results, it should have been very clear that Elvis' vocals were ineffectively mixed and mastered on this newest product. That said, one wonders if Ernst actually listened to the results, or at this point, if a mid-'70s show is just a mid-'70s show to him. There is no reason to simply accept this newest project as just another option for listening to the Memphis show -- some fine engineers have mixed and mastered live Presley material over the past several years; the opportunity to present a dynamic mix was there and it didn't happen. That said, after critical review, the Memphis concert is not a great concert overall; it is a concert that once presented a strong vocal performance on album and that had most of the bloat edited out in a way that presented a superior listening experience. Now, the mainstream representation of the Memphis show contains a dry, flat vocal performance by Elvis and a set-list padded out with mediocre performances.

Re: Legacy release coming of Elvis Live In Memphis

Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:40 pm

midnightx wrote:Sorry, but I don't think Ernst has delivered again. He had the wrong engineer work on this show. Not that he could have foreseen the substandard mix after all the praise the mix from the alternate Aloha show received; but upon hearing the results, it should have been very clear that Elvis' vocals were ineffectively mixed and mastered on this newest product. That said, one wonders if Ernst actually listened to the results, or at this point, if a mid-'70s show is just a mid-'70s show to him. There is no reason to simply accept this newest project as just another option for listening to the Memphis show -- some fine engineers have mixed and mastered live Presley material over the past several years; the opportunity to present a dynamic mix was there and it didn't happen. That said, after critical review, the Memphis concert is not a great concert overall; it is a concert that once presented a strong vocal performance on album and that had most of the bloat edited out in a way that presented a superior listening experience. Now, the mainstream representation of the Memphis show contains a dry, flat vocal performance by Elvis and a set-list padded out with mediocre performances.


With all due respect, have you ever considered that maybe he likes it? There is barrier you keep crossing: that you like it or don't doesn't make you right or wrong. Compression, dry, reverb, dynamics, whatever, but what counts is if you like it. If you like it, you enjoy it, if you don't, you discard it.


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Re: Legacy release coming of Elvis Live In Memphis

Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:20 am

frus75 wrote:With all due respect, have you ever considered that maybe he likes it?

So what if he does? Why would that have any bearing over midnightx's critical analysis of the audio? Is he not allowed to express an opposing view?

Re: Legacy release coming of Elvis Live In Memphis

Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:26 am

Well, I`m quite happy with the FTD, do I really need this release too :?

Re: Legacy release coming of Elvis Live In Memphis

Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:28 am

Matthew wrote:
frus75 wrote:With all due respect, have you ever considered that maybe he likes it?

So what if he does? Why would that have any bearing over midnightx's critical analysis of the audio? Is he not allowed to express an opposing view?


Read closely: He wonders if Ernst has listened to the results and I just address that question, nor his obvious freedom to express a valid opinion .


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Re: Legacy release coming of Elvis Live In Memphis

Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:13 am

Could someone post an A/B comparison between the FTD release and the current Legacy release ?? I really could not tell the difference except there is less reverb and less artificial applause on the new release...and Ronnie's drums are more prominent.

Re: Legacy release coming of Elvis Live In Memphis

Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:28 am

TCB-FAN wrote:Could someone post an A/B comparison between the FTD release and the current Legacy release ?? I really could not tell the difference except there is less reverb and less artificial applause on the new release...and Ronnie's drums are more prominent.

Isn't that enough to qualify as a difference?

Re: Legacy release coming of Elvis Live In Memphis

Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:47 am

frus75 wrote:Read closely: He wonders if Ernst has listened to the results and I just address that question, nor his obvious freedom to express a valid opinion .

You know that Ernst reviewed the audio? There's a reason he engages the services and opinions of others for audio - he is not an audiophile, and has said as much in the past. Midnightx's point that Ernst's interest in Elvis' mid-70s period is unlikely high is probably not too far from the truth. Read closely!

Re: Legacy release coming of Elvis Live In Memphis

Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:57 am

Matthew wrote: Read closely!


I will my Lord.

But meanwhile, midnightx (please not for dearest Matthew here), be sure I still appreciate your comments, I know what you mean, and I only try to say that maybe taste is also important. And be sure Ernst has listened to the cd and pays close attention to sound quality. He's not an audiophile? Well, who can say who is and who isn't.

Re: Legacy release coming of Elvis Live In Memphis

Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:00 am

Hi

Just to clarify - is this the first ever SONY release of the unedited Help Me?

+ that the unedited version was not on the FTD

Thanks

Re: Legacy release coming of Elvis Live In Memphis

Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:03 am

CISKO2COOLA wrote:Hi

Just to clarify - is this the first ever SONY release of the unedited Help Me?

+ that the unedited version was not on the FTD

Thanks


Yes thats true.
This is the first time the unedited help me is presented.

Re: Legacy release coming of Elvis Live In Memphis

Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:15 am

CISKO2COOLA wrote:Hi

Just to clarify - is this the first ever SONY release of the unedited Help Me?

+ that the unedited version was not on the FTD

Thanks

Help Me on the 1974 album, and the FTD is unedited. The false start appears on the Legacy Edition for the first time officially.

Re: Legacy release coming of Elvis Live In Memphis

Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:51 pm

skatterbrane wrote:
TCB-FAN wrote:Could someone post an A/B comparison between the FTD release and the current Legacy release ?? I really could not tell the difference except there is less reverb and less artificial applause on the new release...and Ronnie's drums are more prominent.

Isn't that enough to qualify as a difference?



Some folks expect a lot more than that. I think the new release (new mix) is a considerable improvement over the old in many ways. I can actually hear strings and drums on the new mix....and no annoying crowd chants & fake applause....and finally..no compression & re-verb. It has a "natural" feel to it.

Everyone has an opinion...to each his own.

Re: Legacy release coming of Elvis Live In Memphis

Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:31 pm

Matthew wrote:
CISKO2COOLA wrote:Hi

Just to clarify - is this the first ever SONY release of the unedited Help Me?

+ that the unedited version was not on the FTD

Thanks

Help Me on the 1974 album, and the FTD is unedited. The false start appears on the Legacy Edition for the first time officially.


Right on! It's weird, but the first thing I did was to edit out that false start. On repeating listening it doesn't add a lot. I understand people who wanted it there, where it belongs, but I also see why they edited it out. The other edit I miss is the I got a woman original album edit.

Re: Legacy release coming of Elvis Live In Memphis

Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:38 pm

TCB-FAN wrote:I think the new release (new mix) is a considerable improvement over the old in many ways. I can actually hear strings and drums on the new mix....and no annoying crowd chants & fake applause....and finally..no compression & re-verb. It has a "natural" feel to it.

What do you mean by natural? Because reverb is a natural occurring phenomenon at most indoor live venues. Listen to any audience recording and you hear the sound reverberating around the room. The reason the FTD sounds so live is not because a ton of fake reverb has been applied, but because the natural room reverb is present on the audience/ambience tracks, which are mixed high. I'm not saying there is no artificial reverb present, but perspective is sorely needed when it comes to the FTD.

It sounds like the producers of the Legacy Edition forgot the were mixing a live concert recording.

Re: Legacy release coming of Elvis Live In Memphis

Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:00 pm

Matthew wrote:
TCB-FAN wrote:I think the new release (new mix) is a considerable improvement over the old in many ways. I can actually hear strings and drums on the new mix....and no annoying crowd chants & fake applause....and finally..no compression & re-verb. It has a "natural" feel to it.

What do you mean by natural? Because reverb is a natural occurring phenomenon at most indoor live venues. Listen to any audience recording and you hear the sound reverberating around the room. The reason the FTD sounds so live is not because a ton of fake reverb has been applied, but because the natural room reverb is present on the audience/ambience tracks, which are mixed high. I'm not saying there is no artificial reverb present, but perspective is sorely needed when it comes to the FTD.

It sounds like the producers of the Legacy Edition forgot the were mixing a live concert recording.



It's all in a matter of personal taste. I much prefer more audible musical instruments over a loud crowd any day of the week. So the crowd noise is toned down a tad on this release, but it does not make it any less appealing to the ear. Unfortunately in the mixing process, you cannot have it both ways. In order to achieve a higher level of one channel, you must compromise another to avoid distortion.

Re: Legacy release coming of Elvis Live In Memphis

Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:00 pm

Matthew wrote:What do you mean by natural? Because reverb is a natural occurring phenomenon at most indoor live venues. Listen to any audience recording and you hear the sound reverberating around the room. The reason the FTD sounds so live is not because a ton of fake reverb has been applied, but because the natural room reverb is present on the audience/ambience tracks, which are mixed high. I'm not saying there is no artificial reverb present, but perspective is sorely needed when it comes to the FTD.

It sounds like the producers of the Legacy Edition forgot the were mixing a live concert recording.


You enjoy the FTD very much. I think we're all getting it by now, don't worry! :wink:

Re: Legacy release coming of Elvis Live In Memphis

Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:57 pm

All this talk of the Memphis show has really got me "into" the concert again after a lapse of a few month.

I just put the FTD on my music player and I'm gonna be drifting into dreamland with it tonight when I go to bed. That one, the Prince From Another Planet shows and Since Cincinnati and Adios are my very favourite "ear-phones" releases :D :D

Re: Legacy release coming of Elvis Live In Memphis

Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:53 am

TCB-FAN wrote:
skatterbrane wrote:
TCB-FAN wrote:Could someone post an A/B comparison between the FTD release and the current Legacy release ?? I really could not tell the difference except there is less reverb and less artificial applause on the new release...and Ronnie's drums are more prominent.

Isn't that enough to qualify as a difference?



Some folks expect a lot more than that. I think the new release (new mix) is a considerable improvement over the old in many ways. I can actually hear strings and drums on the new mix....and no annoying crowd chants & fake applause....and finally..no compression & re-verb. It has a "natural" feel to it.

Everyone has an opinion...to each his own.

Spot on! i agree ::rocks This Legacy release is awesome :D