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Re: Those Who Cared --> Elvis' "Secret" Hospital Visits

Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:14 am

Sadly, I feel that depression played a big part in his self-destructive behavior.

Re: Those Who Cared --> Elvis' "Secret" Hospital Visits

Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:57 am

memphisound wrote:Interesting read thanks John for posting the articles. I just wish Parker would've tried to step in somehow but I guess with Elvis spending himself into the ground there wasn't much options left. Or perhaps Paker felt it was too late and that Elvis wasn't going too listen to anyone?


Parker either didn't care, or never knew how to care. Either way, his failure to intercede on any level is unforgivable.

Re: Those Who Cared --> Elvis' "Secret" Hospital Visits

Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:12 pm

HoneyTalkNelson wrote:Sadly, I feel that depression played a big part in his self-destructive behavior.


Yes, i would agree.

Re: Those Who Cared --> Elvis' "Secret" Hospital Visits

Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:13 pm

elvis-fan wrote:Nice post, John.
Sadly it took until 1981 to truly reveal the reasons behind Elvis' hospital visits... if Elvis only had a little more time, perhaps he could have figured out what he was doing to himself and his career... it was not to be.


It's possible the public reaction to an Elvis concert after the bodyguard book was out might have been the final motivating step, just as Red West argued. But Presley never played a single show after July 1977.

Re: Those Who Cared --> Elvis' "Secret" Hospital Visits

Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:57 pm

Elvis didn't pop into hospital to have a little rest to cover himself contractually?

Re: Those Who Cared --> Elvis' "Secret" Hospital Visits

Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:00 pm

Mountain Misst wrote:Elvis didn't pop into hospital to have a little rest to cover himself contractually?


This is definitely noted for the April 1977 visit, and absolutely one of the motivators behind the June 1973 and August 1975 check-ins. But once Presley was there, people tried to use it as an opportunity for Elvis to regain his health.

Re: Those Who Cared --> Elvis' "Secret" Hospital Visits

Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:02 pm

Yes, which was very loving. Dedicated rest time was needed and it was a smart move on Elvis' part.

Thank you.

Re: Those Who Cared --> Elvis' "Secret" Hospital Visits

Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:20 am

fn2drive wrote:53 days hospitalized in 75 nearly 2 months. Simply an out of control addict by that point. All covered up-hard to believe that the local press didn't know. And no wonder the doctors concluded he was a recidivist addict after trying to dry him out. Thanks for the post.


Thanks. Please note that your choice of words in the above are harsh. Recidivist is an extremely negative word, whether used as a noun or adjective. Most addicts fall into a recovery and relapse pattern until they are able to overcome their illness, Elvis fit that like so many before and since, but we don't need to bash him unfairly, do we?

Re: Those Who Cared --> Elvis' "Secret" Hospital Visits

Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:34 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
fn2drive wrote:53 days hospitalized in 75 nearly 2 months. Simply an out of control addict by that point. All covered up-hard to believe that the local press didn't know. And no wonder the doctors concluded he was a recidivist addict after trying to dry him out. Thanks for the post.


Thanks. Please note that your choice of words in the above are harsh. Recidivist is an extremely negative word, whether used as a noun or adjective. Most addicts fall into a recovery and relapse pattern until they are able to overcome their illness, Elvis fit that like so many before and since, but we don't need to bash him unfairly, do we?


Well said Doc. Great thread btw, really puts the 70's in perspective as far as Elvis' career, life and such.

Re: Those Who Cared --> Elvis' "Secret" Hospital Visits

Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:04 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
fn2drive wrote:53 days hospitalized in 75 nearly 2 months. Simply an out of control addict by that point. All covered up-hard to believe that the local press didn't know. And no wonder the doctors concluded he was a recidivist addict after trying to dry him out. Thanks for the post.


Thanks. Please note that your choice of words in the above are harsh. Recidivist is an extremely negative word, whether used as a noun or adjective. Most addicts fall into a recovery and relapse pattern until they are able to overcome their illness, Elvis fit that like so many before and since, but we don't need to bash him unfairly, do we?




Doc i see recidivist as neutral (simply one who replapses) ; junkie is harsh but i believe it properly describes a man whose life devolved into a vicious cycle of living for drugs and little else. It's pretty hard to read the accounts attributed to Jackie Kahane related to Elvis and Lisa and for me not to conclude it hits the mark. When you read the list of pills, injectables etc precribed by Nicopolus detailed at his trial, i don't think any other description truely fits though i admit his addiction was to synthetic heroin not the street variety. While i have great empathy for his addiction and the genetic and enviornmental factors which caused it, the terminal boredom and creative laziness that contributed to the need to escape reality were self inflicted. I get your point though.

Re: Those Who Cared --> Elvis' "Secret" Hospital Visits

Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:42 pm

fn2drive wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
fn2drive wrote:53 days hospitalized in 75 nearly 2 months. Simply an out of control addict by that point. All covered up-hard to believe that the local press didn't know. And no wonder the doctors concluded he was a recidivist addict after trying to dry him out. Thanks for the post.


Thanks. Please note that your choice of words in the above are harsh. Recidivist is an extremely negative word, whether used as a noun or adjective. Most addicts fall into a recovery and relapse pattern until they are able to overcome their illness, Elvis fit that like so many before and since, but we don't need to bash him unfairly, do we?




Doc i see recidivist as neutral (simply one who replapses) ; junkie is harsh but i believe it properly describes a man whose life devolved into a vicious cycle of living for drugs and little else. It's pretty hard to read the accounts attributed to Jackie Kahane related to Elvis and Lisa and for me not to conclude it hits the mark. When you read the list of pills, injectables etc precribed by Nicopolus detailed at his trial, i don't think any other description truely fits though i admit his addiction was to synthetic heroin not the street variety. While i have great empathy for his addiction and the genetic and enviornmental factors which caused it, the terminal boredom and creative laziness that contributed to the need to escape reality were self inflicted. I get your point though.


Thanks. Definitions of recidivist prove it is not neutral but very unkind:

recidivist
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/recidivist
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/recidivist

This topic seeks to point out that some people around Elvis did care, and did try to steer him in the right direction. But it is very true that the first step is the hardest of all to take.

Re: Those Who Cared --> Elvis' "Secret" Hospital Visits

Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:05 pm

Elvis' las Vegas engagements were shortened and he was given time off from october 1974 to march 1975 so there was some attempts but what could the Colonel really do? how would the Colonel even know how to help a drug addict? if his closest friends could not help then what else could be done. I have read that Vernon was really the only person who had the power to help. But he was not the strongest person in the world when it came to Elvis.

Re: Those Who Cared --> Elvis' "Secret" Hospital Visits

Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:14 pm

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Re: Those Who Cared --> Elvis' "Secret" Hospital Visits

Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:29 pm

DEH wrote:Elvis' las Vegas engagements were shortened and he was given time off from october 1974 to march 1975 so there was some attempts but what could the Colonel really do? how would the Colonel even know how to help a drug addict? if his closest friends could not help then what else could be done. I have read that Vernon was really the only person who had the power to help. But he was not the strongest person in the world when it came to Elvis.


Management could have done many things:

- had a private, serious conversation with Elvis about his condition
- gathered Vernon, Priscilla to join him in dealing with Elvis' health concerns
- set up a series of appointments with medical professionals, made them contractual
- promised to fulfill unrealized goals (overseas tours, Hollywood comeback) upon completing health recovery

Instead, they chose to:

- increase the number of tour dates
- reduce overall bookings in Las Vegas
- sell out RCA masters up to 1973 for lump sum of less than $10 million
- contract a major network TV special in 1977

That turned out well.

Re: Those Who Cared --> Elvis' "Secret" Hospital Visits

Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:29 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
DEH wrote:Elvis' las Vegas engagements were shortened and he was given time off from october 1974 to march 1975 so there was some attempts but what could the Colonel really do? how would the Colonel even know how to help a drug addict? if his closest friends could not help then what else could be done. I have read that Vernon was really the only person who had the power to help. But he was not the strongest person in the world when it came to Elvis.


Management could have done many things:

- had a private, serious conversation with Elvis about his condition
- gathered Vernon, Priscilla to join him in dealing with Elvis' health concerns
- set up a series of appointments with medical professionals, made them contractual
- promised to fulfill unrealized goals (overseas tours, Hollywood comeback) upon completing health recovery


Instead, they chose to:

- increase the number of tour dates
- reduce overall bookings in Las Vegas
- sell out RCA masters up to 1973 for lump sum of less than $10 million
- contract a major network TV special in 1977

That turned out well.


I think these are all excellent suggestions which should have at least been attempted. My worry is that Elvis would have stonewalled any intervention from Vernon or Priscilla. Elvis was the boss, he called the shots and I don't think he would taken too kindly to them telling him how to run his life - look how he reacted in 1970 when they tried to curb his spending. I think his pride and denial about being an addict would have stopped him from agreeing to see medical professionals and admit to them that he, "ELVIS PRESLEY" had a problem; and I don't think he'd have believed the Colonel's promises about touring overseas - hell even I wouldn't swallow that one! :D But you're right, it should have at least been tried. Should they have threatened something more drastic like having Priscilla threaten to take Lisa away from him, horrible as that obviously sounds? Or should the Colonel have threatened to go to the papers unless Elvis got proper help? Maybe Elvis would have taken that one seriously. Sadly I just find myself returning to Dave Hebler's observation, "how do you protect a man from himself". If Elvis couldn't find the motivation within himself to get healthy nothing else was going to do it for him.

Re: Those Who Cared --> Elvis' "Secret" Hospital Visits

Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:19 am

Great post.
Unfortunately, sad but true !
How do you protect a man against himself.

Re: Those Who Cared --> Elvis' "Secret" Hospital Visits

Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:59 am

The only man who could persuade Elvis to enter in a rehab and clean himself was Parker. No doubt about it - he manipulated Elvis so many times in their 22 years of "partnership" and Elvis accepted almost everything Colonel said. So it's not fair to blame Cilla, Vernon, Red, Sonny, Lamar, Jerry, Joe, Marty, Billy and others. The only one Elvis would listen was the Colonel. If Parker threatened him to not book him in tours until Elvis cleaned up, I think Presley changed his way of life and could be forced to go to rehab.

Re: Those Who Cared --> Elvis' "Secret" Hospital Visits

Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:24 am

jurasic1968 wrote:The only man who could persuade Elvis to enter in a rehab and clean himself was Parker. No doubt about it - he manipulated Elvis so many times in their 22 years of "partnership" and Elvis accepted almost everything Colonel said. So it's not fair to blame Cilla, Vernon, Red, Sonny, Lamar, Jerry, Joe, Marty, Billy and others. The only one Elvis would listen was the Colonel. If Parker threatened him to not book him in tours until Elvis cleaned up, I think Presley changed his way of life and could be forced to go to rehab.


You're probably right. Unfortunately, he had his own addiction which forced him to keep "his boy" working. "All that matters is, that man is on stage tonight." That chilling account from Larry Geller pretty much sums up the Colonel and his concern for Elvis Presley by 1977. When Elvis needed the Colonel the most, for guidance and leadership, stuff that's expected from a manager, the Colonel instead took advantage of him, to the point to where it was criminal. That's a damn shame, Elvis deserved better!

Re: Those Who Cared --> Elvis' "Secret" Hospital Visits

Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:38 am

I don't know. To me it's insane if the Colonel acted that way. I read what Larry Geller wrote, but I have some doubt about it. How could a manager be so cruel to do such things to his client? I am not a fan of Parker at all, but I also don't think - without a smoking gun evidence -that he was a murderer, like Alanna Nash speculates in her book. He was paranoid and a control freak, but I don't think he wanted Elvis to die. Maybe he was so cold hearted and he didn't care about Elvis-that's a possible explanation.

Re: Those Who Cared --> Elvis' "Secret" Hospital Visits

Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:05 am

Everybody around Elvis was to blame. The employees who call themselves friends should have told Elvis "Either shape up or we quit" in 1973 but they preferred to wait and when fired in 1976 write a book.
In fact they should have told Elvis on May 1, 1967 "Elvis, you are now a married man so we stop living with you".
Then Priscilla would not be annoyed with all these guys living there and leave Elvis, Elvis would have been happy and not revert to ease the pain by taking pills, which ultimately lead him to his early demise.

Re: Those Who Cared --> Elvis' "Secret" Hospital Visits

Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:16 am

It's not that simple, because Elvis wanted and needed the guys. Jerry Schilling quit in February 1976 saying to Elvis that "friendship is more important than a job". But Elvis couldn't be alone, even with his wife.

Re: Those Who Cared --> Elvis' "Secret" Hospital Visits

Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:50 am

jurasic1968 wrote:It's not that simple, because Elvis wanted and needed the guys. Jerry Schilling quit in February 1976 saying to Elvis that "friendship is more important than a job". But Elvis couldn't be alone, even with his wife.


Right....again....how can you protect a man against himself.....

Re: Those Who Cared --> Elvis' "Secret" Hospital Visits

Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:30 pm

Legally, at that time, civil commitment for drug abuse was not difficult. And Tennessee was a state that had very flexible laws in that regard.

But Vernon didn't have it in him to do it. You can say that if the person doesn't want help, it's hopeless, but there is some evidence to the contrary.

In the 1980s, when pop star Boy George was a heroin addict, his own brother turned him in. He got help, but said he would never talk to his brother again. Really bitter.

He's alive today. And he talks to his brother, last I heard.

rjm

Sent From My Phabulous Galaxy Note II Phablet Using Tapatalk 4

Re: Those Who Cared --> Elvis' "Secret" Hospital Visits

Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:02 pm

My opinion is that Vernon never ever had the courage to force Elvis to go in a clinic for rehab. Again, I think the only one who could convince Elvis, by blackmail of course, was Colonel Tom Parker. Not Priscilla, Vernon, Billy Smith, Red West or anyone else.

Re: Those Who Cared --> Elvis' "Secret" Hospital Visits

Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:05 pm

jurasic1968 wrote:I don't know. To me it's insane if the Colonel acted that way. I read what Larry Geller wrote, but I have some doubt about it. How could a manager be so cruel to do such things to his client? I am not a fan of Parker at all, but I also don't think - without a smoking gun evidence -that he was a murderer, like Alanna Nash speculates in her book. He was paranoid and a control freak, but I don't think he wanted Elvis to die. Maybe he was so cold hearted and he didn't care about Elvis-that's a possible explanation.


Edited. Double post.
Last edited by Joe Car on Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:11 am, edited 1 time in total.