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Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:42 pm

Very accurate analysis, Doc. I wonder: if Parker had accepted a one and only the Pyramids Egypt offer of the 70's, Elvis could be richer with 5 million dollars (the other 5 of course could easily went in the Colonel's pocket). The Colonel never wanted to lose control, as many Mafia members wrote, when he convinced Elvis not to travel to Europe in 1969 and his purpose was to regain full control of Elvis, after the June 1968 Comeback special and the January-February 1969 Memphis sessions when Elvis was doing his way confronting Parker.

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:51 pm

luckyjackson1 wrote:The 10000th watch! :D


Congratulations! :D

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:21 am

deadringer wrote: And yes there is an Elvis monologue about substitute sound system, on CD.


i can't find it, where is it on the cd?
Reviewers claimed he constantly complained about the sound.
Tony Brown said the sound guys turned against him as he made a big deal out of it.

Not a single word can be heard on the recording.
There's only one moment where he says he can't hear himself.

My conclusion: the show is edited.
Not a big deal but it is the case.

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:40 am

Before 'And I Love You So' Elvis does complain about the sound.Also remember reviews made before this CD came out maybe were 90% accurate but NOT 100% correct. :wink: :D

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:56 am

YDKM wrote:Before 'And I Love You So' Elvis does complain about the sound.Also remember reviews made before this CD came out maybe were 90% accurate but NOT 100% correct. :wink: :D


My point is: a concert reviewer mentioned in his newspaper article Elvis talked about a substitute sound system.
This can't be heard on the cd so either the reviewer made this up from nowhere or the tape is incomplete or edited.

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:04 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
promiseland wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Of course Elvis had his flaws, we've discussed them here on occasion, one of which was failing to fully confront his addiction. And the blame for that primarily falls on his own shoulders.

That said, of the many insiders in Elvis' life, there is no doubt that Tom Parker was in the top two or three, and he did nothing. Nothing. And that is a mistake I will never forgive him for. Presley brought Parker untold fame, riches and power, which the Dutchman used with impunity, and he essentially ran his client into the ground.


I agree with what you are saying in the highlight Doc, but let me ask you this, of all the millions, and millions of dollars Tom Parker signed Elvis into during the 50's and 60's, and early 70's, he could have easily retired by 1977. So in this aspect is it Parkers fault Elvis foolishly blew most all his earning on paid friends?, a multitude of gifts that consisted of cars, trucks, jewelry, planes, overnight outings, amusement park rentals, charities , and a list that goes on and on and on?


You place far too much weight on Presley's personal spending habits and grossly under-analyze Tom Parker's financial acumen and duties as manager.

Easily retired? For "all the millions, and millions of dollars" you attribute to Parker's work between 1956 and 1977, there were many more "millions, and millions of dollars" that management kept for themselves, or simply threw away. For example, management advised Elvis to always simply pay his taxes without question and take no deductions whatsoever, which is about the worst financial advice one can give a client earning seven figures or more, year after year. Management never suggested investment counseling, either. The millions of dollars lost on those two pieces of advice alone is appalling to consider. Sure, Elvis could have said "no" to these ideas, but it was Parker's responsibility to properly advise his client on these matters.

During Elvis' prime years, 1960 to 1969, there were exactly 0 tours, domestically or internationally, which would have brought enormous sums of money. Maintaining the Hollywood film cycle after 1965, when it was so evident how greatly the entertainment landscape had changed, was another mistake which undoubtedly led to huge potential earnings lost. And it should be said that an unmotivated star making product that only a core fan base will support is the antithesis of growing a financial model. But management was always interested in the "now" money. Not looking to the future was a recipe for monetary losses, not gains. And that was Presley management.

Also, no matter how much one believes Elvis wasted his earnings on "paid friends" or "multitude of gifts," in the big picture his "profligate" ways were nowhere near as extravagant as similar stars of the day, in regards to travel, clothing, property, vehicles, personal items, retinue, drug/alcohol use and so on. Liberace, anyone? And Presley's generous way, at times, with money should have hardly made a dent in his financial security.

The sad fact is, by 1970, Elvis' net worth should have been approaching anywhere from a quarter to a half billion dollars, based on the sheer number of records sold worldwide, performing and publishing royalties, plus any film, TV or tour grosses of the previous decade. This profit should have been so well-invested that there would never have been an urgency to tour, to borrow or anything else. That Elvis was flirting with bankruptcy in 1976, as noted above, was a result of his financial fears and ignorance, and reliance on the advice of his father (who knew next to nothing about such things), and management (whose failings are described above).

His story is a cautionary tale for any rising star with a long, bright future.


Brilliant! Doc, do you think that management preferred Elvis being "not that rich" to make him work more (more money for management) and more dependent ? A guy with 500 millions in the bank is in a better and stronger position to kick some asses...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:28 am

frus75 wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
promiseland wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Of course Elvis had his flaws, we've discussed them here on occasion, one of which was failing to fully confront his addiction. And the blame for that primarily falls on his own shoulders.

That said, of the many insiders in Elvis' life, there is no doubt that Tom Parker was in the top two or three, and he did nothing. Nothing. And that is a mistake I will never forgive him for. Presley brought Parker untold fame, riches and power, which the Dutchman used with impunity, and he essentially ran his client into the ground.


I agree with what you are saying in the highlight Doc, but let me ask you this, of all the millions, and millions of dollars Tom Parker signed Elvis into during the 50's and 60's, and early 70's, he could have easily retired by 1977. So in this aspect is it Parkers fault Elvis foolishly blew most all his earning on paid friends?, a multitude of gifts that consisted of cars, trucks, jewelry, planes, overnight outings, amusement park rentals, charities , and a list that goes on and on and on?


You place far too much weight on Presley's personal spending habits and grossly under-analyze Tom Parker's financial acumen and duties as manager.

Easily retired? For "all the millions, and millions of dollars" you attribute to Parker's work between 1956 and 1977, there were many more "millions, and millions of dollars" that management kept for themselves, or simply threw away. For example, management advised Elvis to always simply pay his taxes without question and take no deductions whatsoever, which is about the worst financial advice one can give a client earning seven figures or more, year after year. Management never suggested investment counseling, either. The millions of dollars lost on those two pieces of advice alone is appalling to consider. Sure, Elvis could have said "no" to these ideas, but it was Parker's responsibility to properly advise his client on these matters.

During Elvis' prime years, 1960 to 1969, there were exactly 0 tours, domestically or internationally, which would have brought enormous sums of money. Maintaining the Hollywood film cycle after 1965, when it was so evident how greatly the entertainment landscape had changed, was another mistake which undoubtedly led to huge potential earnings lost. And it should be said that an unmotivated star making product that only a core fan base will support is the antithesis of growing a financial model. But management was always interested in the "now" money. Not looking to the future was a recipe for monetary losses, not gains. And that was Presley management.

Also, no matter how much one believes Elvis wasted his earnings on "paid friends" or "multitude of gifts," in the big picture his "profligate" ways were nowhere near as extravagant as similar stars of the day, in regards to travel, clothing, property, vehicles, personal items, retinue, drug/alcohol use and so on. Liberace, anyone? And Presley's generous way, at times, with money should have hardly made a dent in his financial security.

The sad fact is, by 1970, Elvis' net worth should have been approaching anywhere from a quarter to a half billion dollars, based on the sheer number of records sold worldwide, performing and publishing royalties, plus any film, TV or tour grosses of the previous decade. This profit should have been so well-invested that there would never have been an urgency to tour, to borrow or anything else. That Elvis was flirting with bankruptcy in 1976, as noted above, was a result of his financial fears and ignorance, and reliance on the advice of his father (who knew next to nothing about such things), and management (whose failings are described above).

His story is a cautionary tale for any rising star with a long, bright future.


Brilliant! Doc, do you think that management preferred Elvis being "not that rich" to make him work more (more money for management) and more dependent ? A guy with 500 millions in the bank is in a better and stronger position to kick some asses...


Perhaps so. But making lots of money was not anathema to Parker and his minions.

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:40 am

Got round to listening to this earlier tonight and I wouldn't say it's an absolute disaster it's really just another sub par late Elvis show.Elvis is slow,his timing is out in a number of places.While his speech is a bit tired and slurred you can still make out every word,I've heard him speak worse.If I were in the audience not knowing about his err "medication" problem I would suspect that he was a bit drunk but just about able to function.He certainly knows where he is as he is waiting for the cheers when he introduces Ronnie Tutt from Texas.It is a poor show and very boring with Elvis talking and mucking about too much with barely a song being above mediocre and the intros are just pathetic taking up far too much time (10 tracks out of the 26 here) Again if I was in the audience I think I would be pissed off at this.Which gets me to something that has been nagging at me since I listened to it-the audience-they are screaming throughout and are much louder than you would expect from a soundboard.Now I know being in the building with Elvis can do funny things to a girl but the constant screaming even during mediocre half assed attempts and even during the intros just don't add up.I was even concentrating on the screaming so much-and I may be well off base here-that I started to wonder if the audience has been enhanced by the producers or even totally faked in places.Has anyone else who has listened to this though this or is my thinking nonsense ?


norrie

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:01 am

norrie wrote:Now I know being in the building with Elvis can do funny things to a girl but the constant screaming even during mediocre half assed attempts and even during the intros just don't add up.I was even concentrating on the screaming so much-and I may be well off base here-that I started to wonder if the audience has been enhanced by the producers or even totally faked in places.Has anyone else who has listened to this though this or is my thinking nonsense ?

norrie


The crazy 'uncritical' bunch was mentioned by reviewers and even Elvis calls the fans 'crazy' so you bet the screams are genuine..

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:45 am

norrie wrote:Got round to listening to this earlier tonight and I wouldn't say it's an absolute disaster it's really just another sub par late Elvis show.Elvis is slow,his timing is out in a number of places.While his speech is a bit tired and slurred you can still make out every word,I've heard him speak worse.If I were in the audience not knowing about his err "medication" problem I would suspect that he was a bit drunk but just about able to function.He certainly knows where he is as he is waiting for the cheers when he introduces Ronnie Tutt from Texas.It is a poor show and very boring with Elvis talking and mucking about too much with barely a song being above mediocre and the intros are just pathetic taking up far too much time (10 tracks out of the 26 here) Again if I was in the audience I think I would be pissed off at this.Which gets me to something that has been nagging at me since I listened to it-the audience-they are screaming throughout and are much louder than you would expect from a soundboard.Now I know being in the building with Elvis can do funny things to a girl but the constant screaming even during mediocre half assed attempts and even during the intros just don't add up.I was even concentrating on the screaming so much-and I may be well off base here-that I started to wonder if the audience has been enhanced by the producers or even totally faked in places.Has anyone else who has listened to this though this or is my thinking nonsense ?


norrie


i pretty much agree with your comments Norrie.... :D

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:52 am

YDKM wrote:
norrie wrote:Got round to listening to this earlier tonight and I wouldn't say it's an absolute disaster it's really just another sub par late Elvis show.Elvis is slow,his timing is out in a number of places.While his speech is a bit tired and slurred you can still make out every word,I've heard him speak worse.If I were in the audience not knowing about his err "medication" problem I would suspect that he was a bit drunk but just about able to function.He certainly knows where he is as he is waiting for the cheers when he introduces Ronnie Tutt from Texas.It is a poor show and very boring with Elvis talking and mucking about too much with barely a song being above mediocre and the intros are just pathetic taking up far too much time (10 tracks out of the 26 here) Again if I was in the audience I think I would be pissed off at this.Which gets me to something that has been nagging at me since I listened to it-the audience-they are screaming throughout and are much louder than you would expect from a soundboard.Now I know being in the building with Elvis can do funny things to a girl but the constant screaming even during mediocre half assed attempts and even during the intros just don't add up.I was even concentrating on the screaming so much-and I may be well off base here-that I started to wonder if the audience has been enhanced by the producers or even totally faked in places.Has anyone else who has listened to this though this or is my thinking nonsense ?


norrie


i pretty much agree with your comments Norrie.... :D



Somebody,someday ,somewhere had too eventually :)

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:25 am

norrie wrote:Got round to listening to this earlier tonight and I wouldn't say it's an absolute disaster it's really just another sub par late Elvis show.Elvis is slow,his timing is out in a number of places.While his speech is a bit tired and slurred you can still make out every word,I've heard him speak worse.If I were in the audience not knowing about his err "medication" problem I would suspect that he was a bit drunk but just about able to function.He certainly knows where he is as he is waiting for the cheers when he introduces Ronnie Tutt from Texas.It is a poor show and very boring with Elvis talking and mucking about too much with barely a song being above mediocre and the intros are just pathetic taking up far too much time (10 tracks out of the 26 here) Again if I was in the audience I think I would be pissed off at this.Which gets me to something that has been nagging at me since I listened to it-the audience-they are screaming throughout and are much louder than you would expect from a soundboard.Now I know being in the building with Elvis can do funny things to a girl but the constant screaming even during mediocre half assed attempts and even during the intros just don't add up.I was even concentrating on the screaming so much-and I may be well off base here-that I started to wonder if the audience has been enhanced by the producers or even totally faked in places.Has anyone else who has listened to this though this or is my thinking nonsense ?


norrie


The screamers in the front rows at Houston '76 are the apologists on the front lines in Elvis forums '13.

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:42 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
norrie wrote:Got round to listening to this earlier tonight and I wouldn't say it's an absolute disaster it's really just another sub par late Elvis show.Elvis is slow,his timing is out in a number of places.While his speech is a bit tired and slurred you can still make out every word,I've heard him speak worse.If I were in the audience not knowing about his err "medication" problem I would suspect that he was a bit drunk but just about able to function.He certainly knows where he is as he is waiting for the cheers when he introduces Ronnie Tutt from Texas.It is a poor show and very boring with Elvis talking and mucking about too much with barely a song being above mediocre and the intros are just pathetic taking up far too much time (10 tracks out of the 26 here) Again if I was in the audience I think I would be pissed off at this.Which gets me to something that has been nagging at me since I listened to it-the audience-they are screaming throughout and are much louder than you would expect from a soundboard.Now I know being in the building with Elvis can do funny things to a girl but the constant screaming even during mediocre half assed attempts and even during the intros just don't add up.I was even concentrating on the screaming so much-and I may be well off base here-that I started to wonder if the audience has been enhanced by the producers or even totally faked in places.Has anyone else who has listened to this though this or is my thinking nonsense ?


norrie


The screamers in the front rows at Houston '76 are the apologists on the front lines in Elvis forums '13.


WOW, must be a lot of old prunes raiding the forums these days ...

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:18 am

That is strange about the newspaper review.

Are there enough items mentioned in news reports that aren't on the tape, to question if this soundboard
is really the afternoon houston show?

Is there anything on the tape that flat out proves it?

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:36 am

Robert wrote:My conclusion: the show is edited.


Or people don't remember correctly. It is virtually impossible to remember such details 20 years after the fact. It's hard enough a WEEK after the fact.

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:16 am

its the correctly dated afternoon show for sure!~ :cry:

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:13 pm

Keith Richards, Jr. wrote:
Robert wrote:My conclusion: the show is edited.


Or people don't remember correctly. It is virtually impossible to remember such details 20 years after the fact. It's hard enough a WEEK after the fact.


Newspaper reviewers wrote their piece the same night as they had to hit the newspaper deadline..

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:21 pm

Check this: written by Wiley Alexander and published the next day:

Four or five times during his performance, Elvis criticized the sound system.
He explained that the sound truck with the equipment normally used in his shows turned over and a substitute system was installed
.


There you go.
This can't be heard on tape.

Conclusion: the tape is incomplete.

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:43 pm

interesting point Robert...but my information was that the tape was complete.....at least from after when they recorded the last minute of C.C.Rider :?
for example i have no information that it has been edited down from a longer tape......although that couldn't be out of the question thinking about it~! :?

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:49 pm

minkahed wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
norrie wrote:Got round to listening to this earlier tonight and I wouldn't say it's an absolute disaster it's really just another sub par late Elvis show.Elvis is slow,his timing is out in a number of places.While his speech is a bit tired and slurred you can still make out every word,I've heard him speak worse.If I were in the audience not knowing about his err "medication" problem I would suspect that he was a bit drunk but just about able to function.He certainly knows where he is as he is waiting for the cheers when he introduces Ronnie Tutt from Texas.It is a poor show and very boring with Elvis talking and mucking about too much with barely a song being above mediocre and the intros are just pathetic taking up far too much time (10 tracks out of the 26 here) Again if I was in the audience I think I would be pissed off at this.Which gets me to something that has been nagging at me since I listened to it-the audience-they are screaming throughout and are much louder than you would expect from a soundboard.Now I know being in the building with Elvis can do funny things to a girl but the constant screaming even during mediocre half assed attempts and even during the intros just don't add up.I was even concentrating on the screaming so much-and I may be well off base here-that I started to wonder if the audience has been enhanced by the producers or even totally faked in places.Has anyone else who has listened to this though this or is my thinking nonsense ?


norrie


The screamers in the front rows at Houston '76 are the apologists on the front lines in Elvis forums '13.


WOW, must be a lot of old prunes raiding the forums these days ...


Prune juice!

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:32 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
minkahed wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
norrie wrote:Got round to listening to this earlier tonight and I wouldn't say it's an absolute disaster it's really just another sub par late Elvis show.Elvis is slow,his timing is out in a number of places.While his speech is a bit tired and slurred you can still make out every word,I've heard him speak worse.If I were in the audience not knowing about his err "medication" problem I would suspect that he was a bit drunk but just about able to function.He certainly knows where he is as he is waiting for the cheers when he introduces Ronnie Tutt from Texas.It is a poor show and very boring with Elvis talking and mucking about too much with barely a song being above mediocre and the intros are just pathetic taking up far too much time (10 tracks out of the 26 here) Again if I was in the audience I think I would be pissed off at this.Which gets me to something that has been nagging at me since I listened to it-the audience-they are screaming throughout and are much louder than you would expect from a soundboard.Now I know being in the building with Elvis can do funny things to a girl but the constant screaming even during mediocre half assed attempts and even during the intros just don't add up.I was even concentrating on the screaming so much-and I may be well off base here-that I started to wonder if the audience has been enhanced by the producers or even totally faked in places.Has anyone else who has listened to this though this or is my thinking nonsense ?


norrie


The screamers in the front rows at Houston '76 are the apologists on the front lines in Elvis forums '13.


WOW, must be a lot of old prunes raiding the forums these days ...


Prune juice!
3sm233.jpg
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Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:33 pm

If there had been more, then they would have made it into a 2CD set. The recording is complete. Elvis did mention the sound-problems, but not as much as Wiley remembers. No big deal, sometimes we remember things a certain way, and then when confronted with hard facts like a recording, you realize that it was not exactly as you remembered it.

Same with the shrieking ladies, they are there on the original tape. It would require a lot of hard work, plus some very high tech editing (i.e. Elvis communicating with them) to pull that off… besides, what would the point be.

As for certain songs not being there, there’s many mistakes on these lists that you see on the net. Same with info about suits and attendances. I certainly would not use any of that info for reference. Believe me, there would be absolutely no logic in removing songs. But if you really want to believe that Elvis was on stage for longer than 82 minutes in Houston, then feel free to do so :wink:

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:41 pm

Robert wrote:Conclusion: the tape is incomplete.

I don't see it that way at all. If you haven't already, read Rock Legend's post on the previous page. It explains things pretty well. I hear no edits from the time the CD starts until the extra long closing vamp. It is this fan's opinion that there are no missing songs or dialogue.

What you hear on this CD is the way the show went down.

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:20 pm

Robert wrote:
Keith Richards, Jr. wrote:
Robert wrote:My conclusion: the show is edited.


Or people don't remember correctly. It is virtually impossible to remember such details 20 years after the fact. It's hard enough a WEEK after the fact.


Newspaper reviewers wrote their piece the same night as they had to hit the newspaper deadline..


Those reviews were often riddled with errors. In many cases, the reviewers didn't even stay for the entire show. They got what they needed and left.

There are also widely divergent viewpoints. Tony Lioce reviewed the 1976 Providence matinee and the 1977 Providence concert. In his 1977 article in The Providence Journal-Bulletin, he said Elvis was really putting his heart into what he was singing, unlike the prior year, when he came out and "Tom Jones'ed it up, disgracefully." As we know, the song lineups were quite similar. I would suspect most of us who have heard the ARs would conclude that the '76 matinee was actually quite strong, for the period (as was the Buffalo show the day before). The final Providence gig, while not as bad as some of the other dates on that tour, was perfunctory.

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:15 pm

Rock Legend wrote:If there had been more, then they would have made it into a 2CD set. The recording is complete.
Elvis did mention the sound-problems, but not as much as Wiley remembers.


I know reviewers could be inaccurate, but why would Wiley make up the 'sound truck' story?
A story that was true by the way.

Next to Alexander, Geoffrey Mc Donnell mentioned the very same thing:
saying once again here that his " normal " sound System got turned over in a truck and so he’s using a substitute system-but NO amount of his explaining can make up for the poor results! Why Elvis refers to this poor sound around 4-5 times during this show!.