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Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:12 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
minkahed wrote:OMG ...


Some members here like to use all the tools available to them on this great forum. Clearly, you are not one of them.

Oh, and here we are at the Golden Page Anniversary of Houston '76. Woo!


Well, enjoy your tools, tool.

Glad your topic reached well beyond "50" pages ....

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:29 pm

I think other members who have had enough of this thread, should have a say as to when it's locked as it no longer serves any purpose other then to cause hard feelings. It's a bad show, we've established that, move on!!

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:18 am

Correct Joe Car... it is a 'bad show' but Mike Sanders review reads like a more detailed Bob Claypool review!~ certainly i would bet my house on the fact the 'Doc' will 100% endorse it!~, but i did find it just a tad too negative...anyhow that's my opinion and i cannot agree with everyone all the time. :|

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:55 am

YDKM wrote:Correct Joe Car... it is a 'bad show' but Mike Sanders review reads like a more detailed Bob Claypool review!~ certainly i would bet my house on the fact the 'Doc' will 100% endorse it!~, but i did find it just a tad too negative...anyhow that's my opinion and i cannot agree with everyone all the time. :|


Why assume people are "agreeing" with anyone else? I listened to the whole recording last night. (And not the YouTube upload. The record.) And what I have written today about what I heard is my own opinion, strictly. It so happens that after reading the Mike S review, someone expressed it well. I am too upset at what I heard last night to have reviewed it.

Don't care what the Doc thinks, either. I heard it.

In other words, I appreciated the review because he agreed with ME, not the other way around. I didn't expect it to be that scarifying. How can you listen to "Hurt" and not be freaked out? I don't understand.

rjm

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 4

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:36 am

I've listened to this show 4 times now and its far from a "disaster." Elvis manages to pull through the show and spends a lot of time talking one on one with the fans. He seems very humble and nice in his interactions. I think a lot of fans on the boards are projecting negativity onto this show and jumping on the negative bandwagon. Is this show Birmingham 1976 or Richmond 1974? Not even close. But to say it's a disaster is blatantly unfair. Elvis seems clear minded though he does really sound tired at times. He is coherent, knows where he is, knows what time it is, isn't forgetting lyrics and having to stop and restart songs, and pulls through the show. It's not his best but there is nothing in the show to suggest it was a complete disaster. It does come off at times like more of an "event" of being around Elvis than a musical concert but the fans all all cheering and enjoying themselves.

I think the liner notes in the CD were spot on.

I think Jerry Scheff's comments about Pontiac can be applied to Houston:

>>It's a gig, let's do it and get it over, out we go'. We just thought: 'The next will be better'.

Elvis had better shows before and after Houston. Every show couldn't be a highlight or high point.

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:07 am

>>After a pause, he addresses the audience in a slow and deliberate manner saying, "It's a pleasure to be back here and we hope you enjoy the show" and then goes on to spend an inordinate amount of time attending to fans at the front of the stage. However these exchanges are far from entertaining and the overall impression is that he is in a dazed stupor as his dialogue is slurred, intermittent and mostly inconsequential.

>>Time certainly seems to drag at this point which must have infuriated the vast majority of the audience further back in the auditorium as too much 'dead air' between songs can easily sap the energy and enthusiasm of a crowd. The band introductions follow this and as usual it's a long drawn out affair, not helped by his speech being slow and drawling, making this section especially tedious.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think this is unfair and untrue. If you read a lot of the newspaper reviews of Elvis shows they say the screaming women and fan interactions made up a lot of the spectacle of an Elvis performance. You can hear that truth clearly in audience recorded shows.

The review from his San Diego 1976 show captures this -

How well he sang seemed of secondary importance. All that really mattered was that ELVIS!! was in the room. He accepted their love, plus their flowers, leis and beaded necklaces, with the graceful, air of a monarch accepting tribute from the pleasants.

It wasn't so much a performance by an entertainer as an appearance by a sovereign. As a sovereign might toss out coins. Elvis handed out scarves. Coasting through a medley of old hits: "All Shook Up," "Teddy Bear," "Don't Be Cruel" - he took a scarf from an assistant, trapped it over the back of his neck for an instant, then tossed into the field of upraised hands; like a bride throwing a bouquet. Again and again he did it. He must go through a trunkful of scarves at every show.

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:40 am

sherrlon12 wrote:I've listened to this show 4 times now and its far from a "disaster." Elvis manages to pull through the show and spends a lot of time talking one on one with the fans. He seems very humble and nice in his interactions. I think a lot of fans on the boards are projecting negativity onto this show and jumping on the negative bandwagon. Is this show Birmingham 1976 or Richmond 1974? Not even close. But to say it's a disaster is blatantly unfair. Elvis seems clear minded though he does really sound tired at times. He is coherent, knows where he is, knows what time it is, isn't forgetting lyrics and having to stop and restart songs, and pulls through the show. It's not his best but there is nothing in the show to suggest it was a complete disaster. It does come off at times like more of an "event" of being around Elvis than a musical concert but the fans all all cheering and enjoying themselves.

I think the liner notes in the CD were spot on.

I think Jerry Scheff's comments about Pontiac can be applied to Houston:

>>It's a gig, let's do it and get it over, out we go'. We just thought: 'The next will be better'.

Elvis had better shows before and after Houston. Every show couldn't be a highlight or high point.

>>After a pause, he addresses the audience in a slow and deliberate manner saying, "It's a pleasure to be back here and we hope you enjoy the show" and then goes on to spend an inordinate amount of time attending to fans at the front of the stage. However these exchanges are far from entertaining and the overall impression is that he is in a dazed stupor as his dialogue is slurred, intermittent and mostly inconsequential.

>>Time certainly seems to drag at this point which must have infuriated the vast majority of the audience further back in the auditorium as too much 'dead air' between songs can easily sap the energy and enthusiasm of a crowd. The band introductions follow this and as usual it's a long drawn out affair, not helped by his speech being slow and drawling, making this section especially tedious.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think this is unfair and untrue. If you read a lot of the newspaper reviews of Elvis shows they say the screaming women and fan interactions made up a lot of the spectacle of an Elvis performance. You can hear that truth clearly in audience recorded shows.

The review from his San Diego 1976 show captures this -

How well he sang seemed of secondary importance. All that really mattered was that ELVIS!! was in the room. He accepted their love, plus their flowers, leis and beaded necklaces, with the graceful, air of a monarch accepting tribute from the pleasants.

It wasn't so much a performance by an entertainer as an appearance by a sovereign. As a sovereign might toss out coins. Elvis handed out scarves. Coasting through a medley of old hits: "All Shook Up," "Teddy Bear," "Don't Be Cruel" - he took a scarf from an assistant, trapped it over the back of his neck for an instant, then tossed into the field of upraised hands; like a bride throwing a bouquet. Again and again he did it. He must go through a trunkful of scarves at every show.


Oh look you found it... and felt the need to post the same thing on two different threads... nice... :facep:

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:44 am

Hey good - thanks for posting it again for me! The more the merrier!

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:54 am

Elvis seems clear minded though he does really sound tired at times... But to say it's a disaster is blatantly unfair... He is coherent...

Comments like these are perfect examples of how blind adoration of an Elvis fan can totally cloud the reality of the situation... hearing things like this makes me feel worse than having to listen to the show... :(

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:57 am

sherrlon12 wrote:>>After a pause, he addresses the audience in a slow and deliberate manner saying, "It's a pleasure to be back here and we hope you enjoy the show" and then goes on to spend an inordinate amount of time attending to fans at the front of the stage. However these exchanges are far from entertaining and the overall impression is that he is in a dazed stupor as his dialogue is slurred, intermittent and mostly inconsequential.

>>Time certainly seems to drag at this point which must have infuriated the vast majority of the audience further back in the auditorium as too much 'dead air' between songs can easily sap the energy and enthusiasm of a crowd. The band introductions follow this and as usual it's a long drawn out affair, not helped by his speech being slow and drawling, making this section especially tedious.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think this is unfair and untrue. If you read a lot of the newspaper reviews of Elvis shows they say the screaming women and fan interactions made up a lot of the spectacle of an Elvis performance. You can hear that truth clearly in audience recorded shows.

The review from his San Diego 1976 show captures this -

How well he sang seemed of secondary importance. All that really mattered was that ELVIS!! was in the room. He accepted their love, plus their flowers, leis and beaded necklaces, with the graceful, air of a monarch accepting tribute from the pleasants.

It wasn't so much a performance by an entertainer as an appearance by a sovereign. As a sovereign might toss out coins. Elvis handed out scarves. Coasting through a medley of old hits: "All Shook Up," "Teddy Bear," "Don't Be Cruel" - he took a scarf from an assistant, trapped it over the back of his neck for an instant, then tossed into the field of upraised hands; like a bride throwing a bouquet. Again and again he did it. He must go through a trunkful of scarves at every show.


"sovereign" :wtf:

:shock: :roll:

_____________________
I was too frightened to step out of the palace. That's what killed (Elvis) Presley. The king is always killed by his courtiers. He is overfed, overindulged, overdrunk to keep him tied to his throne. Most people in the position never wake up.


John Lennon: Newsweek, 9/29/1980

http://www.beatlesinterviews.org/db1980.0929.beatles.html

rjm

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:52 pm

sherrlon12 wrote:I've listened to this show 4 times now and its far from a "disaster." Elvis manages to pull through the show and spends a lot of time talking one on one with the fans. He seems very humble and nice in his interactions. I think a lot of fans on the boards are projecting negativity onto this show and jumping on the negative bandwagon. Is this show Birmingham 1976 or Richmond 1974? Not even close. But to say it's a disaster is blatantly unfair. Elvis seems clear minded though he does really sound tired at times. He is coherent, knows where he is, knows what time it is, isn't forgetting lyrics and having to stop and restart songs, and pulls through the show. It's not his best but there is nothing in the show to suggest it was a complete disaster. It does come off at times like more of an "event" of being around Elvis than a musical concert but the fans all all cheering and enjoying themselves.

I think the liner notes in the CD were spot on.

I think Jerry Scheff's comments about Pontiac can be applied to Houston:

>>It's a gig, let's do it and get it over, out we go'. We just thought: 'The next will be better'.

Elvis had better shows before and after Houston. Every show couldn't be a highlight or high point.

It's comforting that you acknowledge there's better shows before Houston... You said you've lisened to the show four times, am I right in guessing that the show gets better every time you listen to it? Good thing you're sceptic to group thinking, but one should also be sceptic to ones own thinking sometimes.

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:17 pm

The scary thing is that Houston makes Rapid City a very good show.....

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:49 pm

epf wrote:The scary thing is that Houston makes Rapid City a very good show.....


Rapid City?
Wrong example, I'm affraid Omaha is pretty good compared to this.

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:52 pm

Robert wrote:
epf wrote:The scary thing is that Houston makes Rapid City a very good show.....

Rapid City?
Wrong example, I'm affraid Omaha is pretty good compared to this.

Both are better than Houston '76...

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:25 am

JimmyCool wrote:
Robert wrote:
epf wrote:The scary thing is that Houston makes Rapid City a very good show.....

Rapid City?
Wrong example, I'm affraid Omaha is pretty good compared to this.

Both are better than Houston '76...


I don't think it is a wrong example, but i agree that i could have mentioned as well.

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:12 am

To cheer everyone up. He pulled it together, for a brief moment.

phpBB [video]



phpBB [video]



Should auld acquaintance be forgot,
and ne'er brought to mind . . .


rjm

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:39 am

epf wrote:The scary thing is that Houston makes Rapid City a very good show.....

IMO Rapid City was a very good show... and certainly not by comparison to the Houston 76 show. More by comparison to any other performance he gave that year... save perhaps the New Year's Eve show.

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:56 am

eligain wrote:
elvisjock wrote:
eligain wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
eligain wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
eligain wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
jak wrote:Youre all like a dog spinning in a circle trying to catch his tail.All the excitement yet it gets him nowhere.Plus it ceases to be interesting at some point.I can sum it up easily.It was a bad show among many bad shows.That's it.Just another bad show on the road a long time ago.How it rates on the crap meter makes no difference anymore.Ancient history.Move along,nothing to see here.


Balderdash!

The whole point of this discussion is that most here agree this was not "Just another bad show on the road" -- it was far worse than that, and in fact a dividing line between all that had come before, and all that was to follow.

This was the moment the artist, his associates, and his management all needed to realize major changes had to be made ... NOW.

Nothing of substance was done, and fifty weeks later, Elvis died.

Why this topic persists is the inability to accept the reality of Saturday, August 28, 1976 in Houston, Texas, before 17,000 fans.




The show did cause some changes. Didn't it make them bring back Dr. Nick and end the afternoon shows? Not the appropriate changes ...


Right. And cosmetic adjustments are akin to actually doing nothing.

Which is my point: "Nothing of substance was done ..."


I just read something about how the choreographer of Michael Jackson's "This Is It" tour was reprimanded by Jackson's manager and his doctor (Conrad Murray) for letting Michael leave and go home from a rehearsal because the choreographer thought Mike looked ill and weak.

The show must go on! You can't stop the gravy train! Even if Elvis needed that gravy train as well, a good manager would have pulled the plug on touring and tried to get revenue from other sources and attended to Elvis's health (long term vision, long term continued revenue). But we all know, the Colonel was only about short term vision and pay outs.


Elvis needn't have been a puppet. You can't blame everything he did on other people. He had a tongue in his head, too.


But he did let himself be a puppet. That's the tragedy. Elvis didn't want to stop the touring either because he needed the money. He needed a caring manager with long term vision and long term goals to tell him, "OK, no more touring until you get your act together." And then concentrate on other revenue sources like merchandising, commercial endorsements etc. He sold the rights to his back catalog just before the big 50's revival with American Graffiti and Happy Days. Just think how much money he could have made with all the 50's compilation albums if his songs were on that. RCA made a fortune on selling his records over TV. A huge lose of potential revenue!


The catalog was actually sold DURING the 50's revival. Grease began in '71. Life Magazine ran a '72 feature about Elvis and the resurgence of all things 50s. American Graffiti came along in '73, and Happy Days the following year.


True, but the 50's revival really went full swing after American Graffiti became popular and with the popularity of Happy Days in 1974. Parker never had his finger on the pulse of popular culture and I bet he wasn't even aware of Grease. Parker was clueless as to what was going on in the country and he always was. I guess RCA snowed The Colonel!




Absent Elvis' premature death ,the deal RCA cut to buy out the catalog would have been financial disaster for RCA. Elvis was already near dead from a commercial pov absent touring which played to his fan base. When I saw him in New Haven in 76 at least 25pct of the seats were unsold or at least empty. Parker knew this and saw they were playing to smaller audiences, shows not sold out, smaller venues, fewer shows in the large arena cities, Las Vegas a wild card etc. Hence the money grabs. The old con artist knew the end was near and had broken the back of his star. By 77 the revival period had ended with Saturday Night Fever.

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:53 am

RCA was earning their money back almost immediately with two large selling Legendary Performer LP's, and The Sun Collection coming out after the deal. The back catalogue would always have value, whether EP lived or not. RCA would not have Parker vetoing hits collections anymore and Aloha was included in the deal, IIRC. They got a pretty good chunk of their money back before Elvis' death.

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:34 am

stevelecher wrote:RCA was earning their money back almost immediately with two large selling Legendary Performer LP's, and The Sun Collection coming out after the deal. The back catalogue would always have value, whether EP lived or not. RCA would not have Parker vetoing hits collections anymore and Aloha was included in the deal, IIRC. They got a pretty good chunk of their money back before Elvis' death.

But they hit the jackpot immediately following Presley's death... manufacturing more Presley music then they had since the 50's... the plants couldn't keep up with the demand.
I'm sure they never imagined that level of sales when they made the deal with Parker... it never should have happened... the estate would have been in a much better position financially in the years following Elvis' death if it didn't.

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:52 am

elvis-fan wrote:
stevelecher wrote:RCA was earning their money back almost immediately with two large selling Legendary Performer LP's, and The Sun Collection coming out after the deal. The back catalogue would always have value, whether EP lived or not. RCA would not have Parker vetoing hits collections anymore and Aloha was included in the deal, IIRC. They got a pretty good chunk of their money back before Elvis' death.

But they hit the jackpot immediately following Presley's death... manufacturing more Presley music then they had since the 50's... the plants couldn't keep up with the demand.
I'm sure they never imagined that level of sales when they made the deal with Parker... it never should have happened... the estate would have been in a much better position financially in the years following Elvis' death if it didn't.

Of course, you are correct. I was countering the statement that had Elvis lived, the deal would have been bad for RCA. On the contrary, RCA would have been fine if Elvis lived too. What they couldn't know about is the windfall they were going to get, Elvis dead or alive, by the advent of the CD and all the fans like me buying the whole catalog again to have it on CD.

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:48 am

elvis-fan wrote:
epf wrote:The scary thing is that Houston makes Rapid City a very good show.....

IMO Rapid City was a very good show... and certainly not by comparison to the Houston 76 show. More by comparison to any other performance he gave that year... save perhaps the New Year's Eve show.


This is what i mean. The show lacks tempo, diversity and he was medicated to the point where he could not control his speach. I agree that for 1977 it was one of the best shows but that statement in itself shows how far the standard dropped compared to 1968-1972.

Statements that this was objectively a good show (with an emberrasing break during CC Rider and a sad Are You Lonesome Tonight and with an out of breath Elvis during Unchained Melody) are damaging to the really good concerts he gave and in to Elvis himself because we would deprive him of an honest assessment of his career.

Granted, it was obvious did try very hard during RC but imho it was not a good show. His speach made it it obvious he was under influence and the show has no flow.

Besides the intro's also made it clear that something was wrong. Just listen to the way he tries to introduce JD. Sad. Please don't deny that.

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:41 pm

epf wrote:
elvis-fan wrote:
epf wrote:The scary thing is that Houston makes Rapid City a very good show.....

IMO Rapid City was a very good show... and certainly not by comparison to the Houston 76 show. More by comparison to any other performance he gave that year... save perhaps the New Year's Eve show.


This is what i mean. The show lacks tempo, diversity and he was medicated to the point where he could not control his speach. I agree that for 1977 it was one of the best shows but that statement in itself shows how far the standard dropped compared to 1968-1972.

Statements that this was objectively a good show (with an emberrasing break during CC Rider and a sad Are You Lonesome Tonight and with an out of breath Elvis during Unchained Melody) are damaging to the really good concerts he gave and in to Elvis himself because we would deprive him of an honest assessment of his career.

Granted, it was obvious did try very hard during RC but imho it was not a good show. His speach made it it obvious he was under influence and the show has no flow.

Besides the intro's also made it clear that something was wrong. Just listen to the way he tries to introduce JD. Sad. Please don't deny that.

I guess I was focusing on the better performances from the Rapid City show - You Gave Me A Mountain, Hurt, I Really Don't Want to Know, That's All Right, My Way, Trying To Get To You - these songs made it a standout performance for me compared to some of the shows from the same tour... but you're right, it certainly had it's drawbacks and you could hear it as soon as Elvis spoke... I think a re-release of the re-mixed audio from this show, with all the babbling cut out, would make for a decent multi-track release.

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:48 pm

elvis-fan wrote:
epf wrote:
elvis-fan wrote:
epf wrote:The scary thing is that Houston makes Rapid City a very good show.....

IMO Rapid City was a very good show... and certainly not by comparison to the Houston 76 show. More by comparison to any other performance he gave that year... save perhaps the New Year's Eve show.


This is what i mean. The show lacks tempo, diversity and he was medicated to the point where he could not control his speach. I agree that for 1977 it was one of the best shows but that statement in itself shows how far the standard dropped compared to 1968-1972.

Statements that this was objectively a good show (with an emberrasing break during CC Rider and a sad Are You Lonesome Tonight and with an out of breath Elvis during Unchained Melody) are damaging to the really good concerts he gave and in to Elvis himself because we would deprive him of an honest assessment of his career.

Granted, it was obvious did try very hard during RC but imho it was not a good show. His speach made it it obvious he was under influence and the show has no flow.

Besides the intro's also made it clear that something was wrong. Just listen to the way he tries to introduce JD. Sad. Please don't deny that.

I guess I was focusing on the better performances from the Rapid City show - You Gave Me A Mountain, Hurt, I Really Don't Want to Know, That's All Right, My Way, Trying To Get To You - these songs made it a standout performance for me compared to some of the shows from the same tour... but you're right, it certainly had it's drawbacks and you could hear it as soon as Elvis spoke... I think a re-release of the re-mixed audio from this show, with all the babbling cut out, would make for a decent multi-track release.


That i do agree with and actually i do hope that that happens. Because there were certainly better parts, that is true. Not good but better.

Re: Houston We Have A Problem.New Soundboard

Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:46 pm

The show is very bad. I compared today Houston August 28 1976 (the worst concert in 1976) with Omaha June 19 1977 (maybe the worst concert in 1977). In Houston Elvis did a better version of Jailhouse Rock and of course a rendition of America (maybe the highlight of the concert) not sang in Omaha one year later. The overlong introduction in Houston, the embarassing dialogue with the fans makes me wonder why after the concert he not cancelled the rest of the tour. Houston I think was one of the few concerts in the 70's Elvis didn't sang Hound Dog-he should avoid that song more often regarding his terrible physical condition. In Omaha the version of the song is terrible. Teddy Bear/Don't be Cruel - worst versions of this medley I ever heard in both concerts, and Can't Help Falling in Love also. In Omaha Elvis sang How Great Thou Art and It's Now or Never and he had some power in his voice during these songs. So, my opinion is : the worst concert of 1977 is better than the worst of 1976. And in conclusion: Houston 1976 I think it was the worst concert Elvis ever gave.