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St. Louis, June 28th, 1973 Footage !!!

Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:45 am

It seams like there is yet another chance to buy some rare footage on eBay, it is from St. Louis, June 28th, 1973.

Image

I believe I know the footage from an old VHS tape, the quality was very poor and only due to the close ups one was able to see Elvis.

However, this footage seams to be very good, here is the link for the eBay offer:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Elvis-Presley ... 51ae8cdff8

and another link for some rare photos from the same seller.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Elvis-Presley ... 51ae8c36cd

Re: St. Louis, June 28th, 1973 Footage !!!

Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:54 am

Amazing quality! This looks great robbie! All the 73 is totally welcome always!!! :D

::rocks

Re: St. Louis, June 28th, 1973 Footage !!!

Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:31 am

Thats 40 years ago, today!

Re: St. Louis, June 28th, 1973 Footage !!!

Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:39 pm

I'm bidding for this one. One of my favourite 8 mm films because of I'm Leavin' .

Re: St. Louis, June 28th, 1973 Footage !!!

Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:15 pm

Wiebe wrote:I'm bidding for this one. One of my favourite 8 mm films because of I'm Leavin' .

good luck to you!

coming from berlin, germany ...
a small check reveals that it is an elvis seller, who, beside other super 8 reels, already sold dozens of "complete works" and "final curtain" sets for freaky prices (nothing wrong with that). similar reels in past auctions sold for more than 100, sometimes more than 200 €.

i don´t think these are the original reels, just copies from the original silent super 8 film.
50 ft. (in german: 15 m) is the regular small/smallest reel with approximately 3 min. runtime.
seller claims "This Elvis Footage is totally unreleased and therefore super rare!", but i´m not too sure about that. as i´ve learned from this forum, way back in the 70s and 80s copies of those reels were widely traded in fan circles.

i like super 8 and - like most of us - can get excited about original footage, but i wouldn´t rave about these offers.

Re: St. Louis, June 28th, 1973 Footage !!!

Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:38 pm

but don't you think the screenshots have more color than the vhs copies we have seen

Re: St. Louis, June 28th, 1973 Footage !!!

Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:17 pm

Wiebe wrote:but don't you think the screenshots have more color than the vhs copies we have seen

quite possibly (i´ve never seen that footage).
remember that the original medium was 8 mm film.
copying it to video always meant a loss of picture quality.
generally spoken, super 8 is superior to video, when it comes to acuity and brilliance (of course, filming inside a building, picture quality was always determined by the lighting conditions - much more during the substandard film days, than today).

unfortunately, there seems to be no recording of this show on the fan market, at least no soundboard.
which means, it´s not possible to dub the footage with original sound.

Re: St. Louis, June 28th, 1973 Footage !!!

Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:07 pm

The Copys made from VHS where very poor and shorter this is so much better and includes the rock melody and its never been released on Dvd so a good buy 8)

Re: St. Louis, June 28th, 1973 Footage !!!

Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:38 pm

I bought a copy of the Baltimore 71 film, and it had no color, it was just like video transfers that we know. So seeing the color in these frames make me believe that this could be the original or a very good copy. Anyway I'm not going to pay as much as I did for the Baltimore footage.

Re: St. Louis, June 28th, 1973 Footage !!!

Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:37 pm

Wiebe wrote:I bought a copy of the Baltimore 71 film, and it had no color, it was just like video transfers that we know. So seeing the color in these frames make me believe that this could be the original or a very good copy. Anyway I'm not going to pay as much as I did for the Baltimore footage.


Provided you even get to win it.

Was the Baltimore film you have bought black and white, because it must have since you stated it had no colour, right?

Anywho, I requested a footage sample and as i understood others did too, I was promised there will be a youtube clip of that footage.

Re: St. Louis, June 28th, 1973 Footage !!!

Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:47 pm

Christopher wrote:
Wiebe wrote:I'm bidding for this one. One of my favourite 8 mm films because of I'm Leavin' .

good luck to you!

coming from berlin, germany ...
a small check reveals that it is an elvis seller, who, beside other super 8 reels, already sold dozens of "complete works" and "final curtain" sets for freaky prices (nothing wrong with that). similar reels in past auctions sold for more than 100, sometimes more than 200 €.

i don´t think these are the original reels, just copies from the original silent super 8 film.
50 ft. (in german: 15 m) is the regular small/smallest reel with approximately 3 min. runtime.
seller claims "This Elvis Footage is totally unreleased and therefore super rare!", but i´m not too sure about that. as i´ve learned from this forum, way back in the 70s and 80s copies of those reels were widely traded in fan circles.

i like super 8 and - like most of us - can get excited about original footage, but i wouldn´t rave about these offers.


Question 01: Does the ebay guy say that those are original films?

Question 02: Does a widely trading of those super 8 reels, if it even is true, equal released?

You know what, I do not have that footage in this quality, providing it actually looks as good as on the stills, I only have an old VHS version like 10th generation, type: "eyecancer" of that footage and I do not know any DVD, or blueray release which contains that footage, so I go with; unreleased.

BUT if it is indeed already released, pls let me know where and in what quality, cause if I can get it fro 20-30 bucks I would not have to bid 200 on ebay, so any information would be helpful and appreciated.

Re: St. Louis, June 28th, 1973 Footage !!!

Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:50 pm

Christopher wrote:
Wiebe wrote:but don't you think the screenshots have more color than the vhs copies we have seen

quite possibly (i´ve never seen that footage).
remember that the original medium was 8 mm film.
copying it to video always meant a loss of picture quality.
generally spoken, super 8 is superior to video, when it comes to acuity and brilliance (of course, filming inside a building, picture quality was always determined by the lighting conditions - much more during the substandard film days, than today).

unfortunately, there seems to be no recording of this show on the fan market, at least no soundboard.
which means, it´s not possible to dub the footage with original sound.


I think there are audience recordings of that show if I am not mistaken and if it is done right, that can be a lot of fun watching it.

btw. If you had 16mm with original camera sound it would also not sound like a soundboard, so why then does it have to be soundboard dubbed?

Re: St. Louis, June 28th, 1973 Footage !!!

Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:03 pm

just wild guesses from my side, bigbird, since i´m not very deep into private home movies from our man (and only interested in good tranfers from the original, like in "return to splendour").
if this is the real thing, i feel happy for the buyer.

BigBird wrote:I think there are audience recordings of that show if I am not mistaken and if it is done right, that can be a lot of fun watching it.

btw. If you had 16mm with original camera sound it would also not sound like a soundboard, so why then does it have to be soundboard dubbed?

of course, it doesn´t have to be. you´re right, that camera sound was always poor.
i just did a short internet check and didn´t discover sources for audience recordings, neither soundboards of this very concert.
you might be more of an expert, than me.
Last edited by Christopher on Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: St. Louis, June 28th, 1973 Footage !!!

Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:10 pm

Christopher wrote:just wild guesses from my side, bigbird, since i´m not very deep into private home movies from our man (and only interested in good tranfers from the original, like in "return to splendour").
if this is the real thing, i feel happy for the buyer.


Thanx. Yeah I am too only interested in the good quality transfers, I cant stand those x gerneration VHS from a copy of a copy ... so yeah we are on the same page about this, I just thought it (the ebay thing) looks promising.

BTW if it is indeed tha original film, it could go up to high heaven, since besides the good footage quality, it would have also some memorabilia value, it would be the film which was in that room that day 40 years ago.

If it is not, the quality still could be amazing, back then the photo shops did amazing work with copying super 8 films, I have myself some of thise copy films and they loook really good, even better than on "return to splendour", but in the defense of RTS, those transfers from RTS were done 20 years ago, so with the same films today one could squeeze a hell of a lot more out of these film than then.

Re: St. Louis, June 28th, 1973 Footage !!!

Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:17 pm

Christopher wrote:just wild guesses from my side, bigbird, since i´m not very deep into private home movies from our man (and only interested in good tranfers from the original, like in "return to splendour").
if this is the real thing, i feel happy for the buyer.

BigBird wrote:I think there are audience recordings of that show if I am not mistaken and if it is done right, that can be a lot of fun watching it.

btw. If you had 16mm with original camera sound it would also not sound like a soundboard, so why then does it have to be soundboard dubbed?

of course, it doesn´t have to be. you´re right, that camera sound was always poor.
i just did a short internet check and didn´t discover sources for audience recordings, neither soundboards of this very concert.
you might be more of an expert, than me.


I am not really that much of an expert, sure i believe I know something about footage and alittle about audio, but I could easily be completely wrong.

However I think there are all shows from 1970-1977 available as audience recordings, but not all are available to everybody since many of them sitting somewhere in the attick, or the basement, a shame actually.

Long story short, I really wonder how the promised sample looks like.

BTW. thanks for the research.

Re: St. Louis, June 28th, 1973 Footage !!!

Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:02 pm

You can see the I'm leavin clip (with sound) here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq7mAMv1yOY

Re: St. Louis, June 28th, 1973 Footage !!!

Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:24 pm

good find - thanks, simon!
looks exactly like the screenshot from that auction, could be a later video copy.
if it´s no camera sound, there must be an audience recording out there (i stand corrected).

Re: St. Louis, June 28th, 1973 Footage !!!

Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:32 pm

Christopher wrote:good find - thanks, simon!
looks exactly like the screenshot from that auction, could be a later video copy.
if it´s no camera sound, there must be an audience recording out there (i stand corrected).


Could be an audience recording from another show around the same time, cause i checked too and you were actually right, there is no St. Louis audio, Pitsburgh June 27th the day before and Atlanta June 30th two days after St. Louis, but no St. Louis.

As far as the quality is concerned, I do see a huge quality difference between the Clip with the audio and the stills, judging by the screen shots, lets see how the video clip from the seller looks like, if he/she is able to provide it in time, after all the auction ends very soon.

Re: St. Louis, June 28th, 1973 Footage !!!

Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:57 pm

Simon1 wrote:You can see the I'm leavin clip (with sound) here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq7mAMv1yOY



Thanks for the link, Simon.

Re: St. Louis, June 28th, 1973 Footage !!!

Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:58 pm

So, here is the video clip on youtube from the ebay seller, I and aparently others have requested:

phpBB [video]



BTW. It's available in HiDef

Re: St. Louis, June 28th, 1973 Footage !!!

Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:05 am

BigBird wrote:So, here is the video clip on youtube from the ebay seller, I and aparently others have requested:


BTW. It's available in HiDef

Nice find BigBird. That footage does look to be at least 1 generation down, other than the YouTube upload.

I would guess the seller has made a copy of his copy to sell.

Re: St. Louis, June 28th, 1973 Footage !!!

Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:26 am

promiseland wrote:
BigBird wrote:So, here is the video clip on youtube from the ebay seller, I and aparently others have requested:


BTW. It's available in HiDef

Nice find BigBird. That footage does look to be at least 1 generation down, other than the YouTube upload.

I would guess the seller has made a copy of his copy to sell.


Thanks, but I got that from the actual seller, since i requested it and others did too, so there was not much work on my part involed.

Yeah ... made a copy, or he/she has made a transfer of the film and maybe only cares for the footage itself rather than for the super 8 medium.

A word to the copy thing, since i do also own some super 8 films, some originals and some copies, I also thought about making copies and sell them to get some of my money back, or to re-invest it into my elvis collection.

The problem, Kodak does not produce the invert positive film anymore.

What does that mean?

Back in the day, most (not all) super 8 copies were contact copies. For a contact copy, you only need that Kodak invert positive super 8 film (input positive, output also positive) let it run together with the original, develope it and voila you get a nice copy, but not anymore.

If you want to make a copy nowadays from a super 8 film, you need to make a 16 mm blow up, that way you will get an so called "16 mm Internegative" and from that it will be minimized back onto a super 8 positive, since those invert positive material is not available anymore. The crux of the matter is, the production of a Internegative cost for 50 FT round about 600-700 Euros, In Europe there is only one guy in Holland and another in Berlin who can do those things. After that internegative is done, you also need to make the super 8 positive which cost another additional 100 Euros!

That means a 50 ft copy film cost about 700-800 euros nowadays and this is far beyond any possible bid that sort of films will reach.

BTW: the interneagtive copy results in a better quality copy than the old fashion contact copy to a invert positive film. Internegative copies were done back in the 70s too, but those were understandably much more expensive than the contact copy methode and even though the result is better, most ppl used the contact method, which today is not available anymore.

Re: St. Louis, June 28th, 1973 Footage !!!

Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:39 am

Simon1 wrote:You can see the I'm leavin clip (with sound) here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq7mAMv1yOY


That's great!! Elvis totally into it!! If only there had been HD Recorders back then!

Re: St. Louis, June 28th, 1973 Footage !!!

Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:40 am

Holy crap , that *is* expensive to develop it :/

Re: St. Louis, June 28th, 1973 Footage !!!

Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:16 am

You're welcome BigBird and Christopher.
The footage is much better than what has been floating around the last decades. Thank you BigBird for your interesting explanation about making copies of 8mm nowadays and the prohibitive cost indeed makes this being a 'new' copy impossible, I might bid on this myself.

Cheers,
Simon