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Re: Proof that Elvis could still move an audience in 1975

Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:02 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Justin wrote:
ekenee wrote:Well, then you are not keeping up, because
Beyonce'
Kelly Clarkson
and Jewel have all recently released new music like this year. We are in 2013.

New artists -----new music. I don't consider 2000 as "old" either.

Time is relative. If you are 20 years old then 2000 was more than half your life ago.

If you are referring to new artists, say 2010 and later, I am having a hard time.


Like I said before, old and new is meaningless. I am about finding the good music thru the bad.
I could discover a song released in 1965 that I had never heard before, so it's new to me.

I don't think I have heard any new artists in the last 3 years that has released anything essential.


Meh.

Rod Stewart released a new album this year; that hardly makes it "new" music. same goes for the artists you mentioned. jewel hasn't been relevant in 10 years. but whatever. are you sure you're not more interested in their good looks?

And how exactly are you discovering music... by looking at the cover of Rolling Stone magazine?


:D


You don't understand the rules of this forum.
You are not allowed to provoke others.
That sarcastic smiley face, in that context, provokes me.
If you don't want me to hit the "report" icon, then I would stop it.

As mentioned before, "justin" (midnightx) doesn't get it.
He doesn't know the meaning of the word, "new".
He doesn't know the meaning of the word, "relevant".

If you have something to say, say it, don't give a sarcastic smiley face in a context in which he was stating erroneous comments.

Re: Proof that Elvis could still move an audience in 1975

Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:05 pm

r&b wrote:
FredAistair wrote:
r&b wrote:
fn2drive wrote:You seem focused on trying to prove that Elvis wasn't a drug addled has been by 1975. No doubt through much of 75 other than being grossly overweight for a star of his caliber he wasn't a daily train wreck like most of 76 and 77. By this point he was a curiosity that still drew crowds and his very loyal fan base but he squandered his come back which essentially ended sometime in 72 though many would say as early as late 70 perhaps Nov 71. Aloha was a disappointment to NBC and drew poor ratings when repeated. Basically he was a big concert draw but ceased to be a cultural force and starting in 75 became a cultural joke. Until the drugs completely took over his life, he could still muster the strength to rise to the occasion at times. But to be clear, by 1975 Elvis had checked out-it was all inertia.


This is one of the best assessments I have read. Especially 1975 onward.


Very very likely, but somehow this person who was uncool and a cultural joke for much of the 70's has outlasted all the cool guys and gals and groups of that time and well beyond that as well to the present. And yet is still thought of as uncool by many.,

This has got to be the most uncool success story in history .

How does one explain this?


Here is one explanation. He died. And he died at a very young age amid a cloud of mystery. That always adds an aura to a person, much like James Dean and Marilyn Monroe, and since Elvis was part of that era, and a major part, it added to his aura as well. If Elvis came out in the 70's there would not have been that much hysteria about it. His coolness lies in the 50's for what he established and what he did for music history and culture. In 1975, he was living off that to most of us. The 1975 version was not considered nearly as cool as the 1957 version.


Died amid a cloud of mystery? :facep: A guy suffocating in a suitcase locked from the outside is a mystery. A guy dying of a heart attack brought on by his own lifestyle is no mystery. The point you miss is that Elvis was the most popular human being on the planet for much of his life and when he died a lot of people felt the loss because somehow he had become a part of everyones life, even those who hated him! And what is it about "cool"? You must be a real cool dude to be so knowledgable on the subject. In your World, cool is an erroneous notion that defines an individuals worth by the amount of acceptance they receive from the flock. And you have found yourself placing too much emphasis on something that only insecure individuals and sheep identify with. Being cool is about being controlled.

Re: Proof that Elvis could still move an audience in 1975

Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:00 pm

jungleroombear wrote:
r&b wrote:Here is one explanation. He died. And he died at a very young age amid a cloud of mystery. That always adds an aura to a person, much like James Dean and Marilyn Monroe, and since Elvis was part of that era, and a major part, it added to his aura as well. If Elvis came out in the 70's there would not have been that much hysteria about it. His coolness lies in the 50's for what he established and what he did for music history and culture. In 1975, he was living off that to most of us. The 1975 version was not considered nearly as cool as the 1957 version.


Died amid a cloud of mystery? :facep: A guy suffocating in a suitcase locked from the outside is a mystery. A guy dying of a heart attack brought on by his own lifestyle is no mystery. The point you miss is that Elvis was the most popular human being on the planet for much of his life and when he died a lot of people felt the loss because somehow he had become a part of everyones life, even those who hated him! And what is it about "cool"? You must be a real cool dude to be so knowledgable on the subject. In your World, cool is an erroneous notion that defines an individuals worth by the amount of acceptance they receive from the flock. And you have found yourself placing too much emphasis on something that only insecure individuals and sheep identify with. Being cool is about being controlled.


Um -- news flash -- Elvis Presley did not die "of a heart attack."

But when Elvis died there was a lot of confusion, and many stories that went around in the press about how, and why. The news came out of left field for many fans in the U.S. and around the world. So r&b is correct, there was indeed a cloud of mystery surrounding the event.

And, as far as cultural impact, it is a matter of historical record that Elvis' fifties work is paramount.

Re: Proof that Elvis could still move an audience in 1975

Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:08 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
jungleroombear wrote:
r&b wrote:Here is one explanation. He died. And he died at a very young age amid a cloud of mystery. That always adds an aura to a person, much like James Dean and Marilyn Monroe, and since Elvis was part of that era, and a major part, it added to his aura as well. If Elvis came out in the 70's there would not have been that much hysteria about it. His coolness lies in the 50's for what he established and what he did for music history and culture. In 1975, he was living off that to most of us. The 1975 version was not considered nearly as cool as the 1957 version.


Died amid a cloud of mystery? :facep: A guy suffocating in a suitcase locked from the outside is a mystery. A guy dying of a heart attack brought on by his own lifestyle is no mystery. The point you miss is that Elvis was the most popular human being on the planet for much of his life and when he died a lot of people felt the loss because somehow he had become a part of everyones life, even those who hated him! And what is it about "cool"? You must be a real cool dude to be so knowledgable on the subject. In your World, cool is an erroneous notion that defines an individuals worth by the amount of acceptance they receive from the flock. And you have found yourself placing too much emphasis on something that only insecure individuals and sheep identify with. Being cool is about being controlled.


Um -- news flash -- Elvis Presley did not die "of a heart attack."

But when Elvis died there was a lot of confusion, and many stories that went around in the press about how, and why. The news came out of left field for many fans in the U.S. and around the world. So r&b is correct, there was indeed a cloud of mystery surrounding the event.

And, as far as cultural impact, it is a matter of historical record that Elvis' fifties work is paramount.


Yes and the ABC TV show '20/20' did a 3 part series surrounding the circumstances of his death in 1979. This series alone presented many clouds of mystery.

Re: Proof that Elvis could still move an audience in 1975

Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:21 pm

r&b wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
jungleroombear wrote:
r&b wrote:Here is one explanation. He died. And he died at a very young age amid a cloud of mystery. That always adds an aura to a person, much like James Dean and Marilyn Monroe, and since Elvis was part of that era, and a major part, it added to his aura as well. If Elvis came out in the 70's there would not have been that much hysteria about it. His coolness lies in the 50's for what he established and what he did for music history and culture. In 1975, he was living off that to most of us. The 1975 version was not considered nearly as cool as the 1957 version.


Died amid a cloud of mystery? :facep: A guy suffocating in a suitcase locked from the outside is a mystery. A guy dying of a heart attack brought on by his own lifestyle is no mystery. The point you miss is that Elvis was the most popular human being on the planet for much of his life and when he died a lot of people felt the loss because somehow he had become a part of everyones life, even those who hated him! And what is it about "cool"? You must be a real cool dude to be so knowledgable on the subject. In your World, cool is an erroneous notion that defines an individuals worth by the amount of acceptance they receive from the flock. And you have found yourself placing too much emphasis on something that only insecure individuals and sheep identify with. Being cool is about being controlled.


Um -- news flash -- Elvis Presley did not die "of a heart attack."

But when Elvis died there was a lot of confusion, and many stories that went around in the press about how, and why. The news came out of left field for many fans in the U.S. and around the world. So r&b is correct, there was indeed a cloud of mystery surrounding the event.

And, as far as cultural impact, it is a matter of historical record that Elvis' fifties work is paramount.


Yes and the ABC TV show '20/20' did a 3 part series surrounding the circumstances of his death in 1979. This series alone presented many clouds of mystery.


Yes it is boring but as i remember saying elsewhere, Elvis was tucked up with Ginger and started to have a heart attack. In common with many people who have a heart attack, he felt he needed to go to the toilet. And stone the crows, he sat there and had a fatal attack. He died suddenly! It's through watching stuff like 20/20 that you must have got a lot of your mystery theories.

Re: Proof that Elvis could still move an audience in 1975

Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:09 pm

jungleroombear wrote:
r&b wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
jungleroombear wrote:
r&b wrote:Here is one explanation. He died. And he died at a very young age amid a cloud of mystery. That always adds an aura to a person, much like James Dean and Marilyn Monroe, and since Elvis was part of that era, and a major part, it added to his aura as well. If Elvis came out in the 70's there would not have been that much hysteria about it. His coolness lies in the 50's for what he established and what he did for music history and culture. In 1975, he was living off that to most of us. The 1975 version was not considered nearly as cool as the 1957 version.


Died amid a cloud of mystery? :facep: A guy suffocating in a suitcase locked from the outside is a mystery. A guy dying of a heart attack brought on by his own lifestyle is no mystery. The point you miss is that Elvis was the most popular human being on the planet for much of his life and when he died a lot of people felt the loss because somehow he had become a part of everyones life, even those who hated him! And what is it about "cool"? You must be a real cool dude to be so knowledgable on the subject. In your World, cool is an erroneous notion that defines an individuals worth by the amount of acceptance they receive from the flock. And you have found yourself placing too much emphasis on something that only insecure individuals and sheep identify with. Being cool is about being controlled.


Um -- news flash -- Elvis Presley did not die "of a heart attack."

But when Elvis died there was a lot of confusion, and many stories that went around in the press about how, and why. The news came out of left field for many fans in the U.S. and around the world. So r&b is correct, there was indeed a cloud of mystery surrounding the event.

And, as far as cultural impact, it is a matter of historical record that Elvis' fifties work is paramount.


Yes and the ABC TV show '20/20' did a 3 part series surrounding the circumstances of his death in 1979. This series alone presented many clouds of mystery.


Yes it is boring but as i remember saying elsewhere, Elvis was tucked up with Ginger and started to have a heart attack. In common with many people who have a heart attack, he felt he needed to go to the toilet. And stone the crows, he sat there and had a fatal attack. He died suddenly! It's through watching stuff like 20/20 that you must have got a lot of your mystery theories.


I have never heard this. Did Ginger say this? He started to have a heart attack in bed? Why didn't they call for help? I just read he wanted to go to the bathroom to read and she said OK don't take too long. Don't recall her saying he felt bad, only that he could not sleep. Please verify your source of info.

Re: Proof that Elvis could still move an audience in 1975

Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:11 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
jungleroombear wrote:
r&b wrote:Here is one explanation. He died. And he died at a very young age amid a cloud of mystery. That always adds an aura to a person, much like James Dean and Marilyn Monroe, and since Elvis was part of that era, and a major part, it added to his aura as well. If Elvis came out in the 70's there would not have been that much hysteria about it. His coolness lies in the 50's for what he established and what he did for music history and culture. In 1975, he was living off that to most of us. The 1975 version was not considered nearly as cool as the 1957 version.


Died amid a cloud of mystery? :facep: A guy suffocating in a suitcase locked from the outside is a mystery. A guy dying of a heart attack brought on by his own lifestyle is no mystery. The point you miss is that Elvis was the most popular human being on the planet for much of his life and when he died a lot of people felt the loss because somehow he had become a part of everyones life, even those who hated him! And what is it about "cool"? You must be a real cool dude to be so knowledgable on the subject. In your World, cool is an erroneous notion that defines an individuals worth by the amount of acceptance they receive from the flock. And you have found yourself placing too much emphasis on something that only insecure individuals and sheep identify with. Being cool is about being controlled.


Um -- news flash -- Elvis Presley did not die "of a heart attack."

But when Elvis died there was a lot of confusion, and many stories that went around in the press about how, and why. The news came out of left field for many fans in the U.S. and around the world. So r&b is correct, there was indeed a cloud of mystery surrounding the event.

And, as far as cultural impact, it is a matter of historical record that Elvis' fifties work is paramount.


Being cool and having a cultural impact are very different. One is subjective and the other is fact. Elvis was cool to young people who need to be grouped or labelled to fit in. (Like all these guys walking round with their back-sides hanging out of their skinny jeans... they think it's cool)!! Of course Elvis also had a cultural impact to every age group and racial/religious grouping. But he wasn't cool to many of these people... people in their 30's upward etc, to them he was a demon. Being cool is pretty pointless unles you're r&b to whom it means a huge amount but you can only ride that horse for a while until life bucks you from the saddle and you end up in the dirt or in Elvis' case, on the bathroom floor.

The confusion/mystery surrounding the death of Elvis was not the reason his death was such a shock to the World. The massive international reaction was because he was dead! The bit in r&b's post about if Elvis had only started in 1970 goes without sayin... doh! That's a crazy analogy. (I say that Dr John because you seem to agree). In reality though, it was because his image, accomplishments, music, movies and concerts had endeared a generation of people to him that his death was such a huge event, not because of any perceived mystery surrounding it. All that was secondary to the event itself. And here we are 36 years later and all the lines between cool, mystery and cultural force have become interwoven with the music, the movies and the man into one unstoppable cultural rollercoaster.

Re: Proof that Elvis could still move an audience in 1975

Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:12 pm

I have heard Ginger herself say that Elvis could not sleep and went there to read. She said that she told him not to fall asleep in there. He said that he wouldn't.

I think we know the rest.

Re: Proof that Elvis could still move an audience in 1975

Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:22 pm

r&b wrote:
jungleroombear wrote:
r&b wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
jungleroombear wrote:
r&b wrote:Here is one explanation. He died. And he died at a very young age amid a cloud of mystery. That always adds an aura to a person, much like James Dean and Marilyn Monroe, and since Elvis was part of that era, and a major part, it added to his aura as well. If Elvis came out in the 70's there would not have been that much hysteria about it. His coolness lies in the 50's for what he established and what he did for music history and culture. In 1975, he was living off that to most of us. The 1975 version was not considered nearly as cool as the 1957 version.


Died amid a cloud of mystery? :facep: A guy suffocating in a suitcase locked from the outside is a mystery. A guy dying of a heart attack brought on by his own lifestyle is no mystery. The point you miss is that Elvis was the most popular human being on the planet for much of his life and when he died a lot of people felt the loss because somehow he had become a part of everyones life, even those who hated him! And what is it about "cool"? You must be a real cool dude to be so knowledgable on the subject. In your World, cool is an erroneous notion that defines an individuals worth by the amount of acceptance they receive from the flock. And you have found yourself placing too much emphasis on something that only insecure individuals and sheep identify with. Being cool is about being controlled.


Um -- news flash -- Elvis Presley did not die "of a heart attack."

But when Elvis died there was a lot of confusion, and many stories that went around in the press about how, and why. The news came out of left field for many fans in the U.S. and around the world. So r&b is correct, there was indeed a cloud of mystery surrounding the event.

And, as far as cultural impact, it is a matter of historical record that Elvis' fifties work is paramount.


Yes and the ABC TV show '20/20' did a 3 part series surrounding the circumstances of his death in 1979. This series alone presented many clouds of mystery.


Yes it is boring but as i remember saying elsewhere, Elvis was tucked up with Ginger and started to have a heart attack. In common with many people who have a heart attack, he felt he needed to go to the toilet. And stone the crows, he sat there and had a fatal attack. He died suddenly! It's through watching stuff like 20/20 that you must have got a lot of your mystery theories.


I have never heard this. Did Ginger say this? He started to have a heart attack in bed? Why didn't they call for help? I just read he wanted to go to the bathroom to read and she said OK don't take too long. Don't recall her saying he felt bad, only that he could not sleep. Please verify your source of info.


He probably didn't say he felt bad, just that he needed to go to the toilet. He probably didn't realise what was happening. The facts are he wanted to go to the toilet and when there, he died. That is a pretty common way to go! The sensation of needing to empty ones bowels in the early stages of heart attack are nothing new.

Re: Proof that Elvis could still move an audience in 1975

Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:28 pm

Rob wrote:I have heard Ginger herself say that Elvis could not sleep and went there to read. She said that she told him not to fall asleep in there. He said that he wouldn't.

I think we know the rest.


So the last thing Elvis ever said was a lie!! Darn i thought he was such a great guy! :D

Re: Proof that Elvis could still move an audience in 1975

Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:55 pm

r&b wrote:
fn2drive wrote:You seem focused on trying to prove that Elvis wasn't a drug addled has been by 1975. No doubt through much of 75 other than being grossly overweight for a star of his caliber he wasn't a daily train wreck like most of 76 and 77. By this point he was a curiosity that still drew crowds and his very loyal fan base but he squandered his come back which essentially ended sometime in 72 though many would say as early as late 70 perhaps Nov 71. Aloha was a disappointment to NBC and drew poor ratings when repeated. Basically he was a big concert draw but ceased to be a cultural force and starting in 75 became a cultural joke. Until the drugs completely took over his life, he could still muster the strength to rise to the occasion at times. But to be clear, by 1975 Elvis had checked out-it was all inertia.


This is one of the best assessments I have read. Especially 1975 onward.


I wouldn't say Elvis was a cultural joke by 75 but he was a cultural mystery. He had pretty much been out of the public eye since Aloha. The only real exposure to the public at that time was his image on the supermarket tabloids. His current records weren't getting much airplay on the radio but he was still a massive draw in concert. The press made a big deal about him turning 40 and there were articles about his unusual lifestyle of sleeping all day and staying up all night. One such article was People Magazine's "Elvis Is 40!" There was another article in a new Peoplesque magazine called "Faces" where it talked about Elvis getting ready to make another comeback because "He owes his fans for everything he's got"

http://www.etsy.com/listing/105968679/v ... resley-the

Re: Proof that Elvis could still move an audience in 1975

Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:14 pm

eligain wrote:
r&b wrote:
fn2drive wrote:You seem focused on trying to prove that Elvis wasn't a drug addled has been by 1975. No doubt through much of 75 other than being grossly overweight for a star of his caliber he wasn't a daily train wreck like most of 76 and 77. By this point he was a curiosity that still drew crowds and his very loyal fan base but he squandered his come back which essentially ended sometime in 72 though many would say as early as late 70 perhaps Nov 71. Aloha was a disappointment to NBC and drew poor ratings when repeated. Basically he was a big concert draw but ceased to be a cultural force and starting in 75 became a cultural joke. Until the drugs completely took over his life, he could still muster the strength to rise to the occasion at times. But to be clear, by 1975 Elvis had checked out-it was all inertia.


This is one of the best assessments I have read. Especially 1975 onward.


I wouldn't say Elvis was a cultural joke by 75 but he was a cultural mystery. He had pretty much been out of the public eye since Aloha. The only real exposure to the public at that time was his image on the supermarket tabloids. His current records weren't getting much airplay on the radio but he was still a massive draw in concert. The press made a big deal about him turning 40 and there were articles about his unusual lifestyle of sleeping all day and staying up all night. One such article was People Magazine's "Elvis Is 40!" There was another article in a new Peoplesque magazine called "Faces" where it talked about Elvis getting ready to make another comeback because "He owes his fans for everything he's got"

http://www.etsy.com/listing/105968679/v ... resley-the

Yes I have those People and Faces issues. They are not too bad but once mid-75 and 1976 rolled around the trash tabloids really took off and had a field day. Remember the one that had the headline 'Is Elvis Dying'? He was in that gypsy beaded jumpsuit with the most unflattering facial expression on the cover. Some indirectly hinted at a drug or pill problem long before the Wests wrote their book.

Re: Proof that Elvis could still move an audience in 1975

Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:21 pm

Rob wrote:I have heard Ginger herself say that Elvis could not sleep and went there to read. She said that she told him not to fall asleep in there. He said that he wouldn't.

I think we know the rest.


It was true romance!

Re: Proof that Elvis could still move an audience in 1975

Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:36 pm

r&b wrote:
eligain wrote:
r&b wrote:
fn2drive wrote:You seem focused on trying to prove that Elvis wasn't a drug addled has been by 1975. No doubt through much of 75 other than being grossly overweight for a star of his caliber he wasn't a daily train wreck like most of 76 and 77. By this point he was a curiosity that still drew crowds and his very loyal fan base but he squandered his come back which essentially ended sometime in 72 though many would say as early as late 70 perhaps Nov 71. Aloha was a disappointment to NBC and drew poor ratings when repeated. Basically he was a big concert draw but ceased to be a cultural force and starting in 75 became a cultural joke. Until the drugs completely took over his life, he could still muster the strength to rise to the occasion at times. But to be clear, by 1975 Elvis had checked out-it was all inertia.


This is one of the best assessments I have read. Especially 1975 onward.


I wouldn't say Elvis was a cultural joke by 75 but he was a cultural mystery. He had pretty much been out of the public eye since Aloha. The only real exposure to the public at that time was his image on the supermarket tabloids. His current records weren't getting much airplay on the radio but he was still a massive draw in concert. The press made a big deal about him turning 40 and there were articles about his unusual lifestyle of sleeping all day and staying up all night. One such article was People Magazine's "Elvis Is 40!" There was another article in a new Peoplesque magazine called "Faces" where it talked about Elvis getting ready to make another comeback because "He owes his fans for everything he's got"

http://www.etsy.com/listing/105968679/v ... resley-the

Yes I have those People and Faces issues. They are not too bad but once mid-75 and 1976 rolled around the trash tabloids really took off and had a field day. Remember the one that had the headline 'Is Elvis Dying'? He was in that gypsy beaded jumpsuit with the most unflattering facial expression on the cover. Some indirectly hinted at a drug or pill problem long before the Wests wrote their book.


But no one really ever believed these tabloids. I bought every one that came out and the 1975 ones were mostly focused on him and Priscilla secretly getting married or getting back together or Elvis dating Cher. Then in late 75 they started in with his weight. The ones about his health started in 76 but they were still obsessed with his love life first and foremost. His weight gain was a BIG deal!

Re: Proof that Elvis could still move an audience in 1975

Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:54 am

There was a regional component to this. It was a bit different down south, particularly among females.

And there was also the component of economic class; Elvis was no longer appealing as much to the middle class, as he had earlier. He was a "tasteless taste," you might say.

He toured the south over and over, because that's where he still had a loyal audience.

There was also the matter of radio fragmentation from the mid-1970s through the early '80s. So, that takes care of most young males. Young white males, 16-24, were listening to AOR. Southern females tended to MOR and softer country, and John Denver, and so forth.

Audience-wise, for anyone, 1972 was very different from 1975. Radio had not yet fragmented to the degree that it would. It also helps explain why Elvis was in Uniondale and not in the Garden by then. He was moving more to the social fringes, even in the NY area. By social fringes, I mean more female, less socioeconomic status, less urban. So, that's what less "cool" means.

By '77, he was getting grannies, not the majority, but there they were, which was weird. They were not even accounted for in the usual demographics.

How many rock stars, then or now, attracted people 25 or 30 years older than themselves? (Now we're talking "Barry Manilow.")

But to return to the point, there were regional, gender, and class components at work. I know the female teens in my school, and later in college, after his death, were very interested in Elvis. This was in Georgia and Alabama. In college, we had an informal fan club (and they didn't care for my reviews when they read them, for sure). They had gone to many concerts, had photos, etc. (I didn't go to concerts in high school, but they did.)

Oh, I should add that all these girls were "Independents"; they did not belong to sororities, and generally worked after school. In other words, they came from more working class backgrounds.

Among the lower classes down south, these components were stonger.

And it wasn't very cool then, for boys (16-24) to like "girl's music," which was considered MOR and soppy.

Perhaps if both he and his music had stayed lean and tough, he might have appealed to a different, more male, cooler demographic. You would think he'd be involved in Outlaw Country, but he really wasn't. He didn't spend time with other musicians, especially by the last few years. (In those concerts, one would definitely get a contact high!)

Another option was one Eric Clapton took: he toured with Muddy Waters in the 70s. I was there. No grannies there! He could have toured with some legendary bluesmen. But he just did as he was told.

rjm

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Re: Proof that Elvis could still move an audience in 1975

Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:17 am

jungleroombear wrote:
r&b wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
jungleroombear wrote:
r&b wrote:Here is one explanation. He died. And he died at a very young age amid a cloud of mystery. That always adds an aura to a person, much like James Dean and Marilyn Monroe, and since Elvis was part of that era, and a major part, it added to his aura as well. If Elvis came out in the 70's there would not have been that much hysteria about it. His coolness lies in the 50's for what he established and what he did for music history and culture. In 1975, he was living off that to most of us. The 1975 version was not considered nearly as cool as the 1957 version.


Died amid a cloud of mystery? :facep: A guy suffocating in a suitcase locked from the outside is a mystery. A guy dying of a heart attack brought on by his own lifestyle is no mystery. The point you miss is that Elvis was the most popular human being on the planet for much of his life and when he died a lot of people felt the loss because somehow he had become a part of everyones life, even those who hated him! And what is it about "cool"? You must be a real cool dude to be so knowledgable on the subject. In your World, cool is an erroneous notion that defines an individuals worth by the amount of acceptance they receive from the flock. And you have found yourself placing too much emphasis on something that only insecure individuals and sheep identify with. Being cool is about being controlled.


Um -- news flash -- Elvis Presley did not die "of a heart attack."

But when Elvis died there was a lot of confusion, and many stories that went around in the press about how, and why. The news came out of left field for many fans in the U.S. and around the world. So r&b is correct, there was indeed a cloud of mystery surrounding the event.

And, as far as cultural impact, it is a matter of historical record that Elvis' fifties work is paramount.


Yes and the ABC TV show '20/20' did a 3 part series surrounding the circumstances of his death in 1979. This series alone presented many clouds of mystery.


Yes it is boring but as i remember saying elsewhere, Elvis was tucked up with Ginger and started to have a heart attack. In common with many people who have a heart attack, he felt he needed to go to the toilet. And stone the crows, he sat there and had a fatal attack. He died suddenly! It's through watching stuff like 20/20 that you must have got a lot of your mystery theories.


Dear, sweet Geraldo Rivera!

That statement is complete and utter folly. If you really believe this, more than 35+ years since Elvis died, you seriously need a reality check.

Re: Proof that Elvis could still move an audience in 1975

Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:06 am

RJM, no offense but Elvis was too big in 1975 to tour with blues men or join a group of country outlaws. And sometimes we analyze so much when the given answer just might be right. Elvis could just as easily have played, and sold out, MSG in 1973 and 1975 as he did Uniondale. The building size was virtually the same. Maybe it is simply a building cost and hassle issue, as we were told.

Elvis audience in 1972 was still with him in 1975. He did big business everywhere, not just in the south. He played east coast in May and August, 1977 (if he'd lived.) He played Minnesota twice in his last year, Chicago, all over the midwest. The trouble is he was putting on too many lackluster shows, too regularly, in the same market. A major artist shouldn't play Chicago twice in seven months. Yes, he sold out all four shows but the same show in May seemed kind of stale to people who just saw it in October. He was just starting to have a little more trouble selling out and that was likely to snowball if he had lived and attempted to play some of these venues again in 1978 or 1979. Clearly, something had to change.

Re: Proof that Elvis could still move an audience in 1975

Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:03 pm

elvis-fan wrote:
fn2drive wrote:Aloha was a disappointment to NBC...

Is a neilson rating of 33.8% for the original broadcast considered disappointing?

I think he meant when it was repeated later. I hope he did, because the original broadcast did very well.

And I helped.

Re: Proof that Elvis could still move an audience in 1975

Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:42 pm

stevelecher wrote:RJM, no offense but Elvis was too big in 1975 to tour with blues men or join a group of country outlaws. And sometimes we analyze so much when the given answer just might be right. Elvis could just as easily have played, and sold out, MSG in 1973 and 1975 as he did Uniondale. The building size was virtually the same. Maybe it is simply a building cost and hassle issue, as we were told.

Elvis audience in 1972 was still with him in 1975. He did big business everywhere, not just in the south. He played east coast in May and August, 1977 (if he'd lived.) He played Minnesota twice in his last year, Chicago, all over the midwest. The trouble is he was putting on too many lackluster shows, too regularly, in the same market. A major artist shouldn't play Chicago twice in seven months. Yes, he sold out all four shows but the same show in May seemed kind of stale to people who just saw it in October. He was just starting to have a little more trouble selling out and that was likely to snowball if he had lived and attempted to play some of these venues again in 1978 or 1979. Clearly, something had to change.


What you say is accurate, but the 'Elvis is too big' stigma has been overplayed throughout his career. If Elvis wanted to do a show or an album with other musicians, be it bluesmen or others, he could have. It would have been a challenge, something he was always up for. He just wasn't progressive enough to see a project like that to fruition. Look at all the major stars who do shows with others. George Harrison certainly was selling a lot of records in 1971, was an ex-Beatle who had just broken up a year earlier, and he did the concert for Bangladesh with many artists at MSG (including Bob Dylan). Elton John had John Lennon at his show in MSG at the height of his popularity. It happens all the time and Elvis, a big as he was, could have made it happen. Of course, the Col never would have allowed it.

Re: Proof that Elvis could still move an audience in 1975

Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:34 pm

I hate, "The Colonel wouldn't have allowed it." It was Elvis' career and it's so frustrating he let the old carny dictate it.

Re: Proof that Elvis could still move an audience in 1975

Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:31 pm

stevelecher wrote:I hate, "The Colonel wouldn't have allowed it." It was Elvis' career and it's so frustrating he let the old carny dictate it.


I hate it too, but it is true. Elvis was the puppet, and the Col pulled the strings. Amazing he overruled him with the 68 Special and the 1969 Memphis sessions, but it took a Steve Binder and a Chips Moman along with Elvis to get those things done. If it was only the usual Elvis people, those 2 great events would have never come to pass. Binder & Moman are 2 huge unsung heroes in my book.

Re: Proof that Elvis could still move an audience in 1975

Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:03 pm

I wouldn't have liked the idea of Elvis Presley doing benefit concerts with other singers.

I'm glad he didn't do that.

Since all this talk about Elvis appealing to teenagers and younger demographics have been mentioned in several threads (mostly by r&b) i've just got to respond.

It would be uncommon and unrealistic for Elvis to appeal to that many teenagers in the 1970s because of his age.

How many teenage fans did Donny Osmond, Bobby Sherman, David Cassidy and Shaun Cassidy have in the 1980s or 1990??????

Elvis appealed to teenagers mostly in the 1950s/early 60s and then not so much afterwards which is common.

Elvis did have and still does have some young fans which is amazing considering he has been dead for 36 years.

Another thing is you can say i don't like Elvis' music from the 1970s and say he didn't appeal to teenagers or young adults because of the lack of quality music but take a look at the charts during the 1970s.

Some very crappy songs were very popular during the 1970s.

Re: Proof that Elvis could still move an audience in 1975

Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:23 am

I'm sure most of you have read the below but I include if you haven't.

Elvis PresleyNassau Coliseum, Long Island
19 July 1975
Nick Cohn
Elvis had two years to live but already seemed a dead man walking. When I saw him in Las Vegas the year before, he'd been robotic. A crash diet had slimmed him down, temporarily, to something close to his youthful shape; it had also drained him of all energy. In Vegas, he sleepwalked through his old hits, often trailing off halfway through a verse to launch into dark, incoherent mumblings. Only on 'How Great Thou Art' did he cast off a sense of creeping dread. At the final bellowed line - 'O my God, how great thou art' - his voice turned raw and harsh, and he sounded like a great wounded beast, stumbling towards oblivion. When the house lights went on, most of the people around me were in tears.
Afterwards, I felt this was my last Elvis show. I'd loved him since 'Heartbreak Hotel', kept the faith through all his subsequent highs and lows, but I could no longer stand to watch him self-destruct.
It took the sneers of New York's hiperati to change my mind. In '75, Dylan and the Stones were the reigning gods of the rock establishment, Springsteen its new rising star. Elvis was seen as ancient history, a curiosity at best. Instead of Madison Square Garden, he was reduced to playing Long Island, an hour's drive and light years from Manhattan. A publicist for 10cc called him a circus freak. I wasn't having that.
It was a broiling night. Nassau Coliseum, an arena most often used for hockey games, felt like a Turkish bath. If you bought a souvenir programme or poster, it stuck to the fingers like glue, and the crowd made use of this, holding up pictures of Elvis like religious artefacts. As the lights dimmed and the theme from 2001: A Space Odyssey sounded, announcing the King's arrival, a sea of ghostly images of his lost youth and beauty greeted him
The sacramental spirit was typical of Elvis shows in his final phase. His audience - families from grandmas to babies, bottled blondes of a certain age, working stiffs and their wives - didn't come simply to be entertained but to share in an act of communion. Richard Nixon's silent majority, they used their idol's life to channel and bear witness to their own; to relive first loves and marriages and divorces, glory days and wreckage alike. It was no coincidence that Elvis had spent his childhood Sundays at Holy Roller services. There was something Pentecostal about his stage presence. Even in ruins, drug-addled and bloated, he made the faithful feel blessed.
This night on Long Island, though, he was no ruin; certainly not the zombie I'd seen in Vegas. He'd packed on major poundage, his moon face had lost all definition, and there was no mistaking the corset straining to hold in his gut, yet he seemed reborn. Maybe he'd hit on a new cocktail of pills, or maybe the off-stage turmoil I'd heard was threatening to wreck his tour had whipped him to a froth. Either way, he charged out on stage like a man primed to do or die.
His outfit, even by his standards of overkill, was ludicrous. Midnight blue bell-bottoms and a plus-size sequined belt were set off by a suit-of-lights matador jacket, a rhinestone dazzle of crimson and blue and gold. Blackpool illuminations had nothing on him. Still, as he struck a karate pose that almost exploded his corset, he launched into 'Big Boss Man' with a fire and attack I hadn't heard from him in years and didn't expect to hear again.
Memories of his 1968 TV special, his last great triumph, and a time when his guitarist James Burton had described him to me as 'a lean, mean, killing machine', flooded back. Lean and mean might be out the window, but the killing machine was up and pumping. Even the Fifties' medley, which he usually threw off like used Kleenex, struck sparks. I've never seen a man sweat so hard, he seemed to be washing away. Though I won't pretend to recall every song, I can still hear his balls-out, almost brutish revamp of 'Hound Dog' and the limpidity of 'I'm Leavin', aching with futile regrets.
At first, the audience wasn't quite sure how to respond. It was almost as though a loved one on life support had suddenly ripped out the tubes, disconnected the oxygen tent, and started doing cartwheels up and down the ward - thrilling, yes, but we were also fearful, half-expecting him to collapse. It took time before we trusted our eyes and ears, and started to exult.
More than 30 years later, I see Elvis clutching an outsize toy duck that someone has thrown to him; swiping at his eyes, trying to swat away the floods of sweat; and down on one knee, head bowed and arms flung wide, soaking up our adulation, then struggling to rise again. And I see him reaching down to the front row, handing out bright-coloured scarves and accepting kisses in return. He makes his way to the end of the row, where he's confronted by a chic model type in dark glasses, who doesn't offer a kiss but a sneer. Obviously, she finds him absurd, a sad old man. Elvis feels this and recoils. He makes an indeterminate motion of his right hand, hard to say if he's pleading with her or cursing her out, before turning his back. The show resumes. Elvis is still impassioned, but now there's a note of desperation, something haunted. After a few minutes, he sits down at the piano and starts to sing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'.
It's a song I despise, but Elvis clearly loves it. Years later, I'll read that Roy Hamilton's 1954 version was a major inspiration in making him a singer. At any rate, he tells us he's always wanted to perform it on stage. Tonight's the night.
Instead of the triumphalism of Gerry Marsden and the Kop End, he treats the song as a private meditation, full of pain and the yearning to believe. Though the lyrics speak of hope, Elvis turns them into a cry, as if reaching for one last sliver of light in engulfing darkness. I am alone, he seems to be saying. All of us are alone. But maybe, just maybe, we can find someone or something to cling to. In his case, it's God. But each of us, hearing him, reaches for our own salvation.
The rest of the night is a blur. Objectively, I have seen better shows - Jimi Hendrix at the Savoy, Prince at the Ritz, James Brown (more than once) at the Apollo, and Johnny Paycheck at the Acadia County Fair, to name just a few. None chilled me as profoundly as those few minutes of Elvis alone at the piano, singing a song I can't stand. If great art needs nakedness, it was the most naked performance I've ever witnessed.
· Nik Cohn's latest book is Triksta: Life and Death and New Orleans Rap (Vintage)

For me this summarizes my emotions from Uniondale though I was at the afternoon show. Elvis- what happened. I will add that right to the end he possessed a high level of personal charisma. You can even see it on display for a few moments if you look hard enough in EIC.

Re: Proof that Elvis could still move an audience in 1975

Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:20 am

I've referenced that outstanding Nik Cohn Observer piece from Sunday, January 21, 2007 many times, but some here received it as a diatribe, not a tribute:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/omm/story/0,,1994457,00.html

See:
http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=27382&p=335153#p335153
http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=67746&p=1007320#p1007320



fn2drive wrote:I'm sure most of you have read the below but I include if you haven't.

Elvis PresleyNassau Coliseum, Long Island
19 July 1975
Nick Cohn
Elvis had two years to live but already seemed a dead man walking. When I saw him in Las Vegas the year before, he'd been robotic. A crash diet had slimmed him down, temporarily, to something close to his youthful shape; it had also drained him of all energy. In Vegas, he sleepwalked through his old hits, often trailing off halfway through a verse to launch into dark, incoherent mumblings. Only on 'How Great Thou Art' did he cast off a sense of creeping dread. At the final bellowed line - 'O my God, how great thou art' - his voice turned raw and harsh, and he sounded like a great wounded beast, stumbling towards oblivion. When the house lights went on, most of the people around me were in tears.
Afterwards, I felt this was my last Elvis show. I'd loved him since 'Heartbreak Hotel', kept the faith through all his subsequent highs and lows, but I could no longer stand to watch him self-destruct.
It took the sneers of New York's hiperati to change my mind. In '75, Dylan and the Stones were the reigning gods of the rock establishment, Springsteen its new rising star. Elvis was seen as ancient history, a curiosity at best. Instead of Madison Square Garden, he was reduced to playing Long Island, an hour's drive and light years from Manhattan. A publicist for 10cc called him a circus freak. I wasn't having that.
It was a broiling night. Nassau Coliseum, an arena most often used for hockey games, felt like a Turkish bath. If you bought a souvenir programme or poster, it stuck to the fingers like glue, and the crowd made use of this, holding up pictures of Elvis like religious artefacts. As the lights dimmed and the theme from 2001: A Space Odyssey sounded, announcing the King's arrival, a sea of ghostly images of his lost youth and beauty greeted him
The sacramental spirit was typical of Elvis shows in his final phase. His audience - families from grandmas to babies, bottled blondes of a certain age, working stiffs and their wives - didn't come simply to be entertained but to share in an act of communion. Richard Nixon's silent majority, they used their idol's life to channel and bear witness to their own; to relive first loves and marriages and divorces, glory days and wreckage alike. It was no coincidence that Elvis had spent his childhood Sundays at Holy Roller services. There was something Pentecostal about his stage presence. Even in ruins, drug-addled and bloated, he made the faithful feel blessed.
This night on Long Island, though, he was no ruin; certainly not the zombie I'd seen in Vegas. He'd packed on major poundage, his moon face had lost all definition, and there was no mistaking the corset straining to hold in his gut, yet he seemed reborn. Maybe he'd hit on a new cocktail of pills, or maybe the off-stage turmoil I'd heard was threatening to wreck his tour had whipped him to a froth. Either way, he charged out on stage like a man primed to do or die.
His outfit, even by his standards of overkill, was ludicrous. Midnight blue bell-bottoms and a plus-size sequined belt were set off by a suit-of-lights matador jacket, a rhinestone dazzle of crimson and blue and gold. Blackpool illuminations had nothing on him. Still, as he struck a karate pose that almost exploded his corset, he launched into 'Big Boss Man' with a fire and attack I hadn't heard from him in years and didn't expect to hear again.
Memories of his 1968 TV special, his last great triumph, and a time when his guitarist James Burton had described him to me as 'a lean, mean, killing machine', flooded back. Lean and mean might be out the window, but the killing machine was up and pumping. Even the Fifties' medley, which he usually threw off like used Kleenex, struck sparks. I've never seen a man sweat so hard, he seemed to be washing away. Though I won't pretend to recall every song, I can still hear his balls-out, almost brutish revamp of 'Hound Dog' and the limpidity of 'I'm Leavin', aching with futile regrets.
At first, the audience wasn't quite sure how to respond. It was almost as though a loved one on life support had suddenly ripped out the tubes, disconnected the oxygen tent, and started doing cartwheels up and down the ward - thrilling, yes, but we were also fearful, half-expecting him to collapse. It took time before we trusted our eyes and ears, and started to exult.
More than 30 years later, I see Elvis clutching an outsize toy duck that someone has thrown to him; swiping at his eyes, trying to swat away the floods of sweat; and down on one knee, head bowed and arms flung wide, soaking up our adulation, then struggling to rise again. And I see him reaching down to the front row, handing out bright-coloured scarves and accepting kisses in return. He makes his way to the end of the row, where he's confronted by a chic model type in dark glasses, who doesn't offer a kiss but a sneer. Obviously, she finds him absurd, a sad old man. Elvis feels this and recoils. He makes an indeterminate motion of his right hand, hard to say if he's pleading with her or cursing her out, before turning his back. The show resumes. Elvis is still impassioned, but now there's a note of desperation, something haunted. After a few minutes, he sits down at the piano and starts to sing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'.
It's a song I despise, but Elvis clearly loves it. Years later, I'll read that Roy Hamilton's 1954 version was a major inspiration in making him a singer. At any rate, he tells us he's always wanted to perform it on stage. Tonight's the night.
Instead of the triumphalism of Gerry Marsden and the Kop End, he treats the song as a private meditation, full of pain and the yearning to believe. Though the lyrics speak of hope, Elvis turns them into a cry, as if reaching for one last sliver of light in engulfing darkness. I am alone, he seems to be saying. All of us are alone. But maybe, just maybe, we can find someone or something to cling to. In his case, it's God. But each of us, hearing him, reaches for our own salvation.
The rest of the night is a blur. Objectively, I have seen better shows - Jimi Hendrix at the Savoy, Prince at the Ritz, James Brown (more than once) at the Apollo, and Johnny Paycheck at the Acadia County Fair, to name just a few. None chilled me as profoundly as those few minutes of Elvis alone at the piano, singing a song I can't stand. If great art needs nakedness, it was the most naked performance I've ever witnessed.
· Nik Cohn's latest book is Triksta: Life and Death and New Orleans Rap (Vintage)

For me this summarizes my emotions from Uniondale though I was at the afternoon show. Elvis- what happened. I will add that right to the end he possessed a high level of personal charisma. You can even see it on display for a few moments if you look hard enough in EIC.

Re: Proof that Elvis could still move an audience in 1975

Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:12 am

r&b wrote:
Justin wrote:
ekenee wrote:Well, then you are not keeping up, because
Beyonce'
Kelly Clarkson
and Jewel have all recently released new music like this year. We are in 2013.

New artists -----new music. I don't consider 2000 as "old" either.

Time is relative. If you are 20 years old then 2000 was more than half your life ago.

If you are referring to new artists, say 2010 and later, I am having a hard time.


Like I said before, old and new is meaningless. I am about finding the good music thru the bad.
I could discover a song released in 1965 that I had never heard before, so it's new to me.

I don't think I have heard any new artists in the last 3 years that has released anything essential.


Meh.

Rod Stewart released a new album this year; that hardly makes it "new" music. same goes for the artists you mentioned. jewel hasn't been relevant in 10 years. but whatever. are you sure you're not more interested in their good looks?

And how exactly are you discovering music... by looking at the cover of Rolling Stone magazine?


Try JD McPherson, Willie Nile, and James Hunter. All new music with a throwback feel. Great albums. Also the new Mavericks album. Cannot beat Raul Malo's vocals.


I am assuming this was to "Justin" since he was the one you addressed it to following his quote, but I am not sure you made your point with him.
Before you ask, I will say this, as far as the artists you mention, I won't say anything negative, but they are just not my cup of tea. Fair enough?

I had to check these guys out, because they are very obscure artists. And Justin would tell you they are old artists since at least 2 of them have had
careers longer than 10 years.

Not sure how many years an artist is an artist before they are no longer considered "new" artists.
"new" music is another issue. Yes, a new album by Rod Stewart is new music, unless of course it's a compilation of hits.
So then what, a year goes by, and it's no longer "new'? Not sure, ask the expert "justin".
Since "justin" failed to explain this, which is his MO, then it's all a subjective thing.
I don't care if an artist re-records a bunch of standards, it's new music. It may not be "new" songs, but the music they are making is modern.

Like I wrote before, this whole old/new thing is irrelevant. It's about the genre,and what you like, and there is plenty of room for
as many artists as there are tastes in music.

Why "justin" wants to put people down for liking something, and then refusing to devulge his own tastes, tells me he is a troll here to stir up trouble.
Or chicken.
Notice how every post by him is laced with negative energy and arrogance.

Someone like that would never be moved by anything heartfelt, let alone Elvis singing "You'll never walk alone" alone at the piano.