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Re: 1968 Comeback: The Beatles

Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:26 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
emshicks321 wrote:Most of us knowing that Col. Parker wanted the '68 Comeback Show to be a Christmas Special, but I was thinking yesterday, what if the sit-down portion was a jam session with the Beatles? I mean I think it was great that they got Scotty, DJ, etc. to jam, but would've it been better, worse? Would it seem like the Beatles were bringing him back or more in control? What do you think???
::rocks


It would have been far better to work with the Beatles after Elvis has reestablished himself as the King of Rock 'n' Roll. Which is one of the many accomplishments of the 1968 TV Special. But he did love the Beatles very, very much. ;-)

My thoughts reflect this aswell, the Comeback Special was to show Elvis still had it, the fact there were no guest appearences that Elvis could carry on the show by himself was what he needed !

Re: 1968 Comeback: The Beatles

Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:10 am

I thought the whole idea was that this was a part of its appeal: a TV Special withOUT "guest appearances." Just a one-man show, with dancers, and musicians. But that's all. NO other stars! That was really different then, and for decades afterwards. It just doesn't say "with appearances by . . . " as they always did. This was going out on a limb, I think, at that time. There might have a been some others, I don't know. But it seems highly unusual. I'm so glad they did it that way. And with any big name rock band? Why? Binder already did the T.A.M.I. Show, with a cavalcade of rock stars of the time.

rjm

Re: 1968 Comeback: The Beatles

Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:00 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:The Beatles realized that making light movies with musical soundtracks was a dead-end, and they never made another after their summer 1965 smash hit, "Help!"

Certainly it was a smash hit but it was a lousy film - worse than most of Elvis's 'bad' films. Two years later, Magical Mystery Tour (TV Special) was even more of a mess, but the Beatles rarely get criticised for their celluloid efforts.

So I agree, Doctor, that the Beatles probably learned from Elvis's mistakes - that is, the wrong direction in which his career had been moving and was continuing to move.

Re: 1968 Comeback: The Beatles

Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:12 pm

Steve Morse wrote:Two years later, Magical Mystery Tour (TV Special) was even more of a mess, but the Beatles rarely get criticised for their celluloid efforts.

Perhaps because they rarely made movies. However, the redeeming features of both of the above are their soundtrack albums.

Re: 1968 Comeback: The Beatles

Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:36 pm

Matthew wrote:
Steve Morse wrote:Two years later, Magical Mystery Tour (TV Special) was even more of a mess, but the Beatles rarely get criticised for their celluloid efforts.

Perhaps because they rarely made movies. However, the redeeming features of both of the above are their soundtrack albums.

Agreed.

The music from Loving You, Jailhouse Rock and King Creole was pretty good, too. GI Blues and Blue Hawaii were 'smash hits' as well, both at the box office and in the album charts.

Re: 1968 Comeback: The Beatles

Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:28 pm

emshicks321 wrote: ... what if the sit-down portion was a jam session with the Beatles? ...

Are you kidding? Elvis don't need The Beatles in one of his shows. :shock: Maybe they can change his broken strings on his guitar after the show. That's enough! :mrgreen:

Re: 1968 Comeback: The Beatles

Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:24 pm

Forgetting for a moment the 1968 TV Special with the Beatles, what about the August 1965 meeting, Does anyone know why not one photo was ever taken or why Elvis did not want his reel to reel tape machine turned on that night? Why was this event not captured for history in any way ,shape ,or form?

Re: 1968 Comeback: The Beatles

Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:14 pm

Matthew wrote:
Steve Morse wrote:Two years later, Magical Mystery Tour (TV Special) was even more of a mess, but the Beatles rarely get criticised for their celluloid efforts.

Perhaps because they rarely made movies. However, the redeeming features of both of the above are their soundtrack albums.

The bizarre (and impossibly unlikely) fantasy with which this thread started has, somewhat surprisingly, resulted in some interesting and perceptive observations, of which I particularly like The Doc's.

I take issue, however, with Steve Morse's comment that 'the Beatles rarely get criticised for their celluloid efforts.' Nonsense. Magical Mystery Tour has been considered to be a complete disaster ever since its first showing on Boxing Day 1967. For the first time, The Beatles had lost the plot. Even the music (apart from I Am The Walrus, which would presumably have been the B side of Hello Goodbye even without the TV special) was second-rate.

As for Matthew's comment that The Beatles 'rarely made movies': The Beatles made their first movie in 1964 and their second in 1965 - one a year, just like Cliff Richard. If, as The Doc persuasively argues, meeting Elvis in August of that year convinced them not to make any more movies, then the counterargument that they 'rarely made movies' makes no sense.

Finally, going back to the original preposterous premise, another 1968 TV special needs to be mentioned: The Rolling Stones Rock'n'Roll Circus, with guest stars John and Yoko, Eric Clapton, Taj Mahal and The Who. Much was made of it in the music press at the time, but it was never aired. When it was finally released in 1996, the reason for not showing it was obvious: The Who's performance completely blew away the Stones. For Elvis to have attempted to have guest stars on his TV special would have been a risky move. Tom Jones, anyone?

Re: 1968 Comeback: The Beatles

Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:15 pm

memphisound wrote:
stevelecher wrote:John's wisecrack was kind of ballsy, but I love it. Wish I could have seen EP's reaction.

Well considering that the people in elvis ' group kept him from such things reviews newspapers and comments like that im sure he was shocked a little bit. But hell you can't live in a bubble and grow at all IMO.

DJC summed it up perfect though with his response.


Thank you! I, too, agree Lennon's comment was ballsy, but it was also passionate. He loved Elvis, he could see his hero had lost the plot, he had to say something. That was John, God bless him.

Re: 1968 Comeback: The Beatles

Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:16 pm

rjm wrote:
stevelecher wrote:John's wisecrack was kind of ballsy, but I love it. Wish I could have seen EP's reaction.


You did. In 1968.


That was a lovely response. It's just a shame it took three years for Elvis to get there. ;-)

Re: 1968 Comeback: The Beatles

Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:25 pm

Steve Morse wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:The Beatles realized that making light movies with musical soundtracks was a dead-end, and they never made another after their summer 1965 smash hit, "Help!"

Certainly it was a smash hit but it was a lousy film - worse than most of Elvis's 'bad' films.


That's ludicrous. Unlike "most of Elvis's 'bad' films" the soundtrack is outstanding (e.g. "Ticket to Ride," "You've Got to Hide Your Love Away," "Help!"), the production values very high and Richard Lester a class director. The film's James Bond parody, although only semi-successful, is far more clever than anything in those Presley travelogues. Lester did have trouble with the group's investment in their roles. John would later say they felt like extras in their own film, and admitted they were already growing bored with the process. Luckily, they didn't stick around to make 29 more of them.

Re: 1968 Comeback: The Beatles

Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:28 pm

r&b wrote:Forgetting for a moment the 1968 TV Special with the Beatles, what about the August 1965 meeting, Does anyone know why not one photo was ever taken or why Elvis did not want his reel to reel tape machine turned on that night? Why was this event not captured for history in any way ,shape ,or form?


That's the million-dollar question. Some claim there is a crude recording from the evening but, if so, it has not surfaced in any form. Photos inside the house of them would have been so cool.

Re: 1968 Comeback: The Beatles

Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:30 pm

NumberEight wrote:
Matthew wrote:
Steve Morse wrote:Two years later, Magical Mystery Tour (TV Special) was even more of a mess, but the Beatles rarely get criticised for their celluloid efforts.

Perhaps because they rarely made movies. However, the redeeming features of both of the above are their soundtrack albums.

The bizarre (and impossibly unlikely) fantasy with which this thread started has, somewhat surprisingly, resulted in some interesting and perceptive observations, of which I particularly like The Doc's.

I take issue, however, with Steve Morse's comment that 'the Beatles rarely get criticised for their celluloid efforts.' Nonsense. Magical Mystery Tour has been considered to be a complete disaster ever since its first showing on Boxing Day 1967. For the first time, The Beatles had lost the plot. Even the music (apart from I Am The Walrus, which would presumably have been the B side of Hello Goodbye even without the TV special) was second-rate.

As for Matthew's comment that The Beatles 'rarely made movies': The Beatles made their first movie in 1964 and their second in 1965 - one a year, just like Cliff Richard. If, as The Doc persuasively argues, meeting Elvis in August of that year convinced them not to make any more movies, then the counterargument that they 'rarely made movies' makes no sense.

Finally, going back to the original preposterous premise, another 1968 TV special needs to be mentioned: The Rolling Stones Rock'n'Roll Circus, with guest stars John and Yoko, Eric Clapton, Taj Mahal and The Who. Much was made of it in the music press at the time, but it was never aired. When it was finally released in 1996, the reason for not showing it was obvious: The Who's performance completely blew away the Stones. For Elvis to have attempted to have guest stars on his TV special would have been a risky move. Tom Jones, anyone?


I really enjoy your spot-on comments and observations. I do think what Matthew meant was that movies were never a focus of the Beatles, and they never approached the kind of treadmill schedule and product Presley offered the public between 1962 and 1968.

Re: 1968 Comeback: The Beatles

Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:45 pm

r&b wrote:Forgetting for a moment the 1968 TV Special with the Beatles, what about the August 1965 meeting, Does anyone know why not one photo was ever taken or why Elvis did not want his reel to reel tape machine turned on that night? Why was this event not captured for history in any way ,shape ,or form?


I've heard that Colonel Parker didn't want any pictures taken because he believed that whoever took them could sell them or publish them and they would profit on them.

I think it's less unusual for there to be no audio recordings of the meeting because i'm sure Elvis jammed often at his house and not every jam session was taped and they wanted the conversations to be private.

I think if that's true about Colonel Parker and the photographs that's ridiculous it should have been okay to take one picture of the Beatles and Elvis together.

I've seen photos of the Beatles with Fats Domino and Little Richard and it be nice to have one photo of Elvis with them.

Re: 1968 Comeback: The Beatles

Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:20 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
HoneyTalkNelson wrote:Elvis was the King in 1965 and the Beatles would have learned a lot from working with him.


Sadly, Elvis had abdicated by 1965, but the Beatles actually did learn a lot from him that year.

When they visited Presley in Los Angeles on August 27, at his request,. ;-)

i doubt that elvis requested their visit. i think parker arranged it.
but if he did...then only to create promotion....and the beatles tried to see elvis ...not the other way around.
but elvis never requested that he could meet the beatles.

Re: 1968 Comeback: The Beatles

Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:40 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
rjm wrote:
stevelecher wrote:John's wisecrack was kind of ballsy, but I love it. Wish I could have seen EP's reaction.


You did. In 1968.


That was a lovely response. It's just a shame it took three years for Elvis to get there. ;-)


Elvis always responded positively to "constructive criticism," especially from somebody who was open and honest with him and whose work he admired, in this case John Lennon.

Re: 1968 Comeback: The Beatles

Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:55 pm

I can't imagine that it could have worked. The Beatles were too far into hindu/hippie/drugs kind of stuff and, by the way, not really talking to each other at that point. Also, they would have shown off too much. No way, Elvis is Elvis.

Re: 1968 Comeback: The Beatles

Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:38 pm

Lohmax wrote:I can't imagine that it could have worked. The Beatles were too far into hindu/hippie/drugs kind of stuff and, by the way, not really talking to each other at that point. Also, they would have shown off too much. No way, Elvis is Elvis.


Actually, no. One of the points of going to meditate in India was to do so without drugs. And at that point they publicly repudiated comments made the previous year (primarily by Paul).

Re: 1968 Comeback: The Beatles

Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:43 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
rjm wrote:
stevelecher wrote:John's wisecrack was kind of ballsy, but I love it. Wish I could have seen EP's reaction.


You did. In 1968.


That was a lovely response. It's just a shame it took three years for Elvis to get there. ;-)


What source for the Lennon comment? It sounds like the sort of thing the cheeky chappie would say but not to Elvis. Had he done so i doubt his feet would have touched the floor all the way back to the Limo. Elvis would have been blazing mad and we would almost certainly have heard a lot more about it from all present in the years since.

Re: 1968 Comeback: The Beatles

Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:55 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Lohmax wrote:I can't imagine that it could have worked. The Beatles were too far into hindu/hippie/drugs kind of stuff and, by the way, not really talking to each other at that point. Also, they would have shown off too much. No way, Elvis is Elvis.


Actually, no. One of the points of going to meditate in India was to do so without drugs. And at that point they publicly repudiated comments made the previous year (primarily by Paul).


:facep: The place was awash with LSD.

Re: 1968 Comeback: The Beatles

Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:58 pm

they may have asked elvis when or if he might record such songs....but i doubt a little that he might have said"well, then we might consider buying your records again".
he was too starstruck at that moment to say something to that effect....even as a joke..

i think thats a myth....or somebody misquoted him and he said merely"well, elvis ...we would love to buy rock singles from you again"...

Re: 1968 Comeback: The Beatles

Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:03 pm

jungleroombear wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Lohmax wrote:I can't imagine that it could have worked. The Beatles were too far into hindu/hippie/drugs kind of stuff and, by the way, not really talking to each other at that point. Also, they would have shown off too much. No way, Elvis is Elvis.


Actually, no. One of the points of going to meditate in India was to do so without drugs. And at that point they publicly repudiated comments made the previous year (primarily by Paul).


:facep: The place was awash with LSD.


Thank you, "Beatles expert." ;-)

Re: 1968 Comeback: The Beatles

Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:06 pm

jungleroombear wrote:What source for the Lennon comment? It sounds like the sort of thing the cheeky chappie would say but not to Elvis. Had he done so i doubt his feet would have touched the floor all the way back to the Limo. Elvis would have been blazing mad and we would almost certainly have heard a lot more about it from all present in the years since.


It's a part of the historical record. The comment was noted by Lennon, and several others who attended that night, and it was exactly like something John would say, albeit with a smile.

Re: 1968 Comeback: The Beatles

Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:07 pm

jungleroombear wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
rjm wrote:
stevelecher wrote:John's wisecrack was kind of ballsy, but I love it. Wish I could have seen EP's reaction.


You did. In 1968.


That was a lovely response. It's just a shame it took three years for Elvis to get there. ;-)


What source for the Lennon comment? It sounds like the sort of thing the cheeky chappie would say but not to Elvis. Had he done so i doubt his feet would have touched the floor all the way back to the Limo. Elvis would have been blazing mad and we would almost certainly have heard a lot more about it from all present in the years since.

i doubt elvis would have reacted that way....he was always polite in public...even if somebody might offend him.
but iam not sure that lennon said that last half of that sentence.
the beatles were the ones who were anxious to see their childhood hero...it was their request to meet elvis ...parker and elvis obliged...for pr-reasons.....elvis never even visited their la homes...although the fab four did invite him


so all in all...i doubt highly that lennon critizised elvis in any way,....even tongue in cheek...he was way too overwhelmed meetin his childhood idol.
the same things elvis felt when he met roy hamilton in 1969 or other persons he admired when he was a kid.

Re: 1968 Comeback: The Beatles

Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:11 pm

matilda wrote:so all in all...i doubt highly that lennon critizised elvis in any way,....even tongue in cheek...he was way too overwhelmed meetin his childhood idol.


If you become more well-read on the subject, all doubt will be removed. ;-)