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Gold Standard series question

Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:42 am

Can someone explain exactly what these releases are? My understanding is that they are re-issues, but where I'm confused it re-issues of what. For example I just purchased the Puppet on a String/Wooden Heart single. I don't see where this was released before, so is the gold standard series re-issues of "songs" that had already been released on single before but now with different b sides. When did these issues start? was it during the 60's?
Thanks, I know this is probably a pretty dumb question, but I'm trying to complete my singles collection, and these have always confused me for some reason. When I started collecting I confused them with the collector series of re-issues, these are something totally different correct?
Murph

Re: Gold Standard series question

Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:54 am

megocollector.com wrote:The RCA Victor Gold Standard Series are re-releases of the original RCA catalog. The re-releases have been re-cataloged and had changed labels throughout their release history. Early Gold Standard Series records were black label dog on top, later black label dog on side, to orange, red, and back to a black label in 1976.

elvisrecords.us wrote:Gold Standard Series (GSS) 45 RPM singles with the prefix 447. The labels may indicate an original point of reference, as the Dog on Top ("DOT") is generally identified with the series beginning in 1958. Wherein 1965 the Dog on Side ("DOS") replaced the DOT label. The orange labels are generally were introduced in 1968. The red labels may have been introduced in 1969, where 1970 is the generally accepted year. The final label, Dog Near Top ("DNT") is accepted as 1977. The actual initial release dates were taken from the original LISTING NOTICEs for the GOLD STANDARD SINGLE RELEASEs used by RCA. The sleeves are also in estimation as various sleeves were used throughout the years, even overlapped. In cases, generic sleeves and company sleeves may also have been used.

More here:
http://www.elvisrecords.us/category/gss/

and here:
http://www.megocollector.com/elvis-presley/elvis-presley-45-rpm-record-guide-us-gold-standard-series-matrix/

Re: Gold Standard series question

Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:48 am

This is only obliquely related to the OP's query. After taking a look at the "elvisrecords" site, I found something that brought back some wonderful memories for me:

http://www.elvisrecords.us/20-golden-hi ... r-sleeves/

I was a happy little n8 when my family picked up this box of reissues for me (shortly after EP's passing?). It was a big addition to my small, at the time, EP record collection. Still have it, too.


N8
... just a fan ....

Re: Gold Standard series question

Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:48 am

I remember buying and seeing those Gold Standard Series 45's during the mid 70's. It was cool (for this fan) to see more recording info like exact date etc. They were found in the oldies but goodies section of the record stores.

Re: Gold Standard series question

Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:10 am

The following 7 singles were released on the Gold Standard Series label initially without ever having been released before as a single in the U.S. ~

1964
447-0639 Kiss Me Quick / Suspicion
447-0720 Wooden Heart / Blue Christmas

1965
447-0643 Crying In The Chapel / I Believe In The Man In The Sky
447-0650 Puppet On A String / Wooden Heart
447-0647 Santa Claus Is Back In Town / Blue Christmas

1966
447-0651 Joshua Fit The Battle / Known Only To Him
447-0652 Milky White Way / Swing Down Sweet Chariot

It's strange that There's Always Me/Judy (1967) & His Hand In Mine/How Great Thou Art (1969) weren't initially released the same way.

Re: Gold Standard series question

Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:23 am

murph1031 wrote:Can someone explain exactly what these releases are? My understanding is that they are re-issues, but where I'm confused it re-issues of what. For example I just purchased the Puppet on a String/Wooden Heart single. I don't see where this was released before, so is the gold standard series re-issues of "songs" that had already been released on single before but now with different b sides. When did these issues start? was it during the 60's?
Thanks, I know this is probably a pretty dumb question, but I'm trying to complete my singles collection, and these have always confused me for some reason. When I started collecting I confused them with the collector series of re-issues, these are something totally different correct?
Murph


No dump question (or I am dump too). I have always wondered what the exact release format was since GSG both included regular single releases and rereleases.

Re: Gold Standard series question

Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:08 pm

murph1031 wrote:Can someone explain exactly what these releases are? My understanding is that they are re-issues, but where I'm confused it re-issues of what. For example I just purchased the Puppet on a String/Wooden Heart single. I don't see where this was released before, so is the gold standard series re-issues of "songs" that had already been released on single before but now with different b sides. When did these issues start? was it during the 60's?
Thanks, I know this is probably a pretty dumb question, but I'm trying to complete my singles collection, and these have always confused me for some reason. When I started collecting I confused them with the collector series of re-issues, these are something totally different correct?
Murph


The Gold Standard Series releases in general replace the original (deleted) release.
An original release does not get reprints after a while but record stores could still stock (many) titles in their oldies section of the shop.

Re: Gold Standard series question

Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:09 am

Thanks for the replies. So they where re-issues except for the ones Blue River listed. So let me see if I got this right. Lets take the Mystery Train 45. It was released first by sun and RCA in 1955. Then it was re-issued in 1958 under the gold standard label, and then four more times with different label colors etc during the 60's and 70's. So in order to fully complete my singles collection I should be searching for all these copies, wow looks like I have further to go than I first thought.

Re: Gold Standard series question

Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:41 am

murph1031 wrote:So let me see if I got this right. Lets take the Mystery Train 45. It was released first by sun and RCA in 1955.

Aug. '55 SUN 45 rpm & 78 rpm
Dec. '55 RCA 45 rpm & 78 rpm


murph1031 wrote:... wow looks like I have further to go than I first thought.

Wow is right! Good luck on that long, expensive journey! Are you sure you don't wanna' just stick with CD's? :)

Re: Gold Standard series question

Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:09 pm

Blue River wrote:The following 7 singles were released on the Gold Standard Series label initially without ever having been released before as a single in the U.S. ~

1964
447-0639 Kiss Me Quick / Suspicion
447-0720 Wooden Heart / Blue Christmas

1965
447-0643 Crying In The Chapel / I Believe In The Man In The Sky
447-0650 Puppet On A String / Wooden Heart
447-0647 Santa Claus Is Back In Town / Blue Christmas

1966
447-0651 Joshua Fit The Battle / Known Only To Him
447-0652 Milky White Way / Swing Down Sweet Chariot

It's strange that There's Always Me/Judy (1967) & His Hand In Mine/How Great Thou Art (1969) weren't initially released the same way.

447-0650 should actually read Wooden Heart / Puppet On A String - Here's the official RCA listing notice for it - Some of the other titles you have listed are reversed too.

ln_447_0650.JPG


Also note that there were plans for Tell Me Why to be released on this Gold Standard issue instead of Wooden Heart as the A-Side.
ln_447_0650_01.JPG


I suppose the following can also be added to your list, as they weren't released as singles, at least not the way they were on the Gold Standard singles:-

447-0685 An American Trilogy / Until It's Time For You To Go (March 13 1973)
GB 10156 Burning Love / Steamroller Blues (March 1975)
GB 10157 Raised On Rock / If You Talk In Your Sleep (March 1975)
GB 11326 Moody Blue / For The Heart (July 1978)
GB 11504 Way Down / My Way (March 30 1979)
GB 11988 Unchained Melody / Are You Sincere (May 1980)

I have all of the Gold Standard releases listed on the following pages:-
http://www.keithflynn.com/recording-ses ... ngles.html
http://www.keithflynn.com/recording-ses ... _1950.html

On the subject of Gold Standard releases, I put this list together a while ago, but have since not been able to fill in the gaps - Can anyone here help?
http://www.keithflynn.com/recording-ses ... rdeps.html

Keith
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Re: Gold Standard series question

Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:52 pm

Keith, thanks for the info on "Tell Me Why". I never knew that.

And concerning An American Trilogy/Until It's Time For You To Go -
I've always thought it was unusual how quickly RCA turned that into a Gold Standard Series issue after the two original singles were released only a year earlier (An American Triology/The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face only 11 months earlier). I'm guessing they did so due to Elvis performing both "An American Trilogy" and "Until It's Time For You To Go" frequently during concerts.

Would it be safe to assume that "We Can Make The Morning" (APKS-1286) was actually the A-side to "Until It's Time For You To Go" (APKS-1289) ?
>> http://www.elvisrecords.us/until-it-is- ... e-morning/

Re: Gold Standard series question

Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:41 pm

Blue River wrote:Would it be safe to assume that "We Can Make The Morning" (APKS-1286) was actually the A-side to "Until It's Time For You To Go" (APKS-1289) ?
>> http://www.elvisrecords.us/until-it-is- ... e-morning/

According to RCA's listing notice for the single 74-0619 and session log, "Until It's Time For You To Go" was the A-Side and "We Can Make The Morning" was the B-Side

Listing Notice - Until Its Time For You To Go-We Can Make The Morning.JPG

Session Log - May 17 1971.JPG

Session Log - May 20 1971.JPG
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Re: Gold Standard series question

Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:26 pm

Keith wrote:
Blue River wrote:Would it be safe to assume that "We Can Make The Morning" (APKS-1286) was actually the A-side to "Until It's Time For You To Go" (APKS-1289) ?
>> http://www.elvisrecords.us/until-it-is- ... e-morning/

According to RCA's listing notice for the single 74-0619 and session log, "Until It's Time For You To Go" was the A-Side and "We Can Make The Morning" was the B-Side.

So are you suggesting that we can't go by the matrix number below the catalog number to determine an A-side from a B-side? That's news to me.
Last edited by Blue River on Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

Re: Gold Standard series question

Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:34 am

Blue River wrote:
Keith wrote:
Blue River wrote:Would it be safe to assume that "We Can Make The Morning" (APKS-1286) was actually the A-side to "Until It's Time For You To Go" (APKS-1289) ?
>> http://www.elvisrecords.us/until-it-is- ... e-morning/

According to RCA's listing notice for the single 74-0619 and session log, "Until It's Time For You To Go" was the A-Side and "We Can Make The Morning" was the B-Side.

So we can't always go by the sub-number below the catalog number to determine an A-side from a B-side.

In this instance no. Those are the matrix numbers of the songs, not the actual sides, and here RCA listed the wrong matrix number for "Until It's Time For You To Go" as being APA4 1289 (June 8 1971) as well as APA4 1274 (May 17 1971) in their logs. It is also wrongly listed this way in the listing notice for 'Elvis Now'.
It was the remake of "Until It's Time For You To Go" that was recorded on June 8 1971 and wasn't released until 1996 on 'Essential Elvis Volume 4 - A Hundred Years From Now'. It was the master from May 17 released on the single in 1971.

Session Log - June 8 1971.JPG


http://www.keithflynn.com/recording-ses ... /1971.html

Keith
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Re: Gold Standard series question

Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:53 am

I've always thought Worldwide 50 Gold Award Hits, Vol. 1 (1970, 4-LP box set) was flawed based on the matrix numbers of certain singles.
For example...
One Night.. H2WW-0415 (This side would've been more appropriate for the 1970 Gold Hits box set, imo)
I Got Stung J2WW-3257

I Need Your Love Tonight J2WW-3253 (This side would've been more appropriate for the 1970 Gold Hits set, imo)
A Fool Such As I............ J2WW-3256

His Latest Flame M2WW-0860 (This side would've been more appropriate for the 1970 Gold Hits set, imo)
Little Sister...... M2WW-0861

Raised On Rock/For Ol' Times Sake was the first single to have printed A/B sides assigned to them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

drjohncarpenter and a few others on this forum have often suggested that the way to determine
the A side from the B side (1954 -1972) is to go by the matrix letters/numbers. That seems to hold true on some singles, but not all of them.
Last edited by Blue River on Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Gold Standard series question

Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:11 am

Blue River wrote:drjohncarpenter and a few others on this forum have often suggested that the way to determine
the A side from the B side (1954 -1972) is to go by the matrix letters/numbers. That seems to hold true on some singles, but not all of them.

Sorry, but whoever suggested that the A and B side of a single can be determined by the matrix number of the songs is taking complete and utter rubbish!

It may be coincidence in some cases, but nothing more!

Keith

Re: Gold Standard series question

Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:22 am

Keith wrote:
Blue River wrote:drjohncarpenter and a few others on this forum have often suggested that the way to determine
the A side from the B side (1954 -1972) is to go by the matrix letters/numbers. That seems to hold true on some singles, but not all of them.

Sorry, but whoever suggested that the A and B side of a single can be determined by the matrix number of the songs is taking complete and utter rubbish!

It may be coincidence in some cases, but nothing more!

So from Elvis' first RCA singles in December 1955 all the way through to early 1973 (Steamroller Blues/Fool) there was never a way to determine the actual A/B side simply by looking at the labels? Wow, that's very interesting!

Keith, what are your thoughts on "I Got Stung" and "Little Sister" being chosen by RCA for the Worldwide Gold Award Hits, Vol. 1 set even though "One Night" and "His Latest Flame" charted higher?

Re: Gold Standard series question

Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:24 am

Blue River wrote:So from Elvis' first RCA singles in December 1955 all the way through to early 1973 (Steamroller Blues/Fool) there was never a way to determine the actual A/B side simply by looking at the labels? Wow, that's very interesting!

Well, looking at the analogy you mentioned earlier and that some members on here have suggested that the A and B sides of a single can be determined by the matrix letters/numbers - If you look at "Steamroller Blues / Fool" for example, going by the matrix numbers it would indicate that "Fool" would be the A-Side (BPKS 1258) and "Steamroller Blues" was the B-Side (CPKS 4728), but clearly this wasn't the case as it's actually printed on the record label that "Steamroller Blues" is side 1 and "Fool" is side 2.

As I've already said, the matrix numbers of songs cannot determine which is the A and B sides of a single - The only REAL documentation that show the A and B sides are the official RCA listing notices, as shown on my site - Mostly never seen before by fans and kindly given to me from someone who worked at RCA, who thought I would be able to put them to good use on my site.

Keith

Re: Gold Standard series question

Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:32 am

Hi there!! :D :D :D.

Keith wrote:
Blue River wrote:So from Elvis' first RCA singles in December 1955 all the way through to early 1973 (Steamroller Blues/Fool) there was never a way to determine the actual A/B side simply by looking at the labels? Wow, that's very interesting!

Well, looking at the analogy you mentioned earlier and that some members on here have suggested that the A and B sides of a single can be determined by the matrix letters/numbers - If you look at "Steamroller Blues / Fool" for example, going by the matrix numbers it would indicate that "Fool" would be the A-Side (BPKS 1258) and "Steamroller Blues" was the B-Side (CPKS 4728), but clearly this wasn't the case as it's actually printed on the record label that "Steamroller Blues" is side 1 and "Fool" is side 2.

As I've already said, the matrix numbers of songs cannot determine which is the A and B sides of a single - The only REAL documentation that show the A and B sides are the official RCA listing notices, as shown on my site - Mostly never seen before by fans and kindly given to me from someone who worked at RCA, who thought I would be able to put them to good use on my site.

Keith


Keep up to good work Keith smt125 , your recording site is the best! 8). Thanks. Bye for now :smt006.

Re: Gold Standard series question

Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:27 am

Keith wrote:... it's actually printed on the record label that "Steamroller Blues" is side 1 and "Fool" is side 2.

I don't see "side 1" or "side 2" printed on the record label >> http://www.elvisrecords.us/steamroller-blues-fool/

Re: Gold Standard series question

Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:43 am

Thanks for your peerless website and valuable infos, Keith!

Re: Gold Standard series question

Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:40 pm

Blue River wrote:
Keith wrote:... it's actually printed on the record label that "Steamroller Blues" is side 1 and "Fool" is side 2.

I don't see "side 1" or "side 2" printed on the record label >> http://www.elvisrecords.us/steamroller-blues-fool/

It's printed on this record label, although this appears to be a European (German) pressing
74-0910-Side 1.jpg

74-0910-Side 2.jpg

Sorry, I should have said that from the next single release "Raised On Rock / For Ol' Times Sake" they printed the sides on U.S. discs too.
APBO-0088-A.jpg

APBO-0088-B.jpg


Keith
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Re: Gold Standard series question

Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:17 pm

Keith wrote:
Blue River wrote:
Keith wrote:... it's actually printed on the record label that "Steamroller Blues" is side 1 and "Fool" is side 2.

I don't see "side 1" or "side 2" printed on the record label >> http://www.elvisrecords.us/steamroller-blues-fool/

It's printed on this record label, although this appears to be a European (German) pressing
74-0910-Side 1.jpg

74-0910-Side 2.jpg
.

Yes, but no way to distinguish A-sides/B-sides on Elvis singles in the U.S. from December 1955 thru early 1973 (Steamroller Blues/Fool).

Keith wrote: Sorry, I should have said that from the next single release "Raised On Rock / For Ol' Times Sake" they printed the sides on U.S. discs too.

Yes, sir, I'm aware of that and have already posted about it.

Thanks for all your help, Keith, and thanks for all the info on your site! 8)