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Re: Phil Spector movie on HBO; Could this have been Elvis?

Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:49 pm

SuspiciousMind wrote:Nobody is saying that he should not be held responsible. What is being said is that he was above the law which he was, and would not have been held responsible.

You're a hoot! Did you convince yourself of this nonsense, or did some other deluded fanboy feed this to you? Either way it's good there are other forum members to set you straight. Here goes:

Elvis was not above the law.

Re: Phil Spector movie on HBO; Could this have been Elvis?

Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:15 pm

I think SuspiciousMind likes the idea that his favorite artist is also a Chuck Norris/Batman badass who made up his own rules and was immune to the law. It's quite a childish fantasy.

Re: Phil Spector movie on HBO; Could this have been Elvis?

Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:50 am

Mike Eder wrote:All I feel on the matter is Elvis is made worse than he is on this thread but by the premise that he had the demented nature of a Spector. not drugs.

To add my 2 cents, I don't think Elvis had a problem with illegal drugs. Frankly what he was eventually getting from his doctors was far, far, worse compared to his dabbling with pot, or acid, As for being a cocaine abuser, even if he went through a period with it, I don't think it played any real role in his demise. It doesn't matter anyway what kind of drugs the guy took, he had an addiction and it's not anything to scorn him for.

What I find alarming is that he is judged on it and so many other personal things in 2013. What matters is that Elvis Presley was one of THE great artists of what I consider to be the golden age of music. Sure his life is open to discussion, but the guy had a heart far more warm than Phil's. Gross speculation on what "COULD" have happened doesn't mean anything. Phil was a fantastic producer, I and others will continue to enjoy his work on a purely musical level, but his legacy won't ever lose the taint of what he did. My hope is that Elvis' work doesn't get similarly tainted, he did nothing to deserve it.


Wonderful post, Mike.

The only thing, now, that "taints" his legacy is that his poor health did affect his work. Other than that, I think he's mostly beloved. No one thinks of him as a Spector-like psycho, and very few would imagine him "above the law" -- he never did anything to even discuss it. You could argue that his high income protected him from what happens to poor addicts, but he paid quite a price in the end.

As I said, if they'd stop this war on addicts - rich or poor, much suffering and tragedy would also be avoided. Elvis was a victim, not a criminal.

We lost him so long ago: too long ago. The only real "taint" is that we lost him.

Thanks again, Mike.

rjm

Re: Phil Spector movie on HBO; Could this have been Elvis?

Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:57 pm

RJM I am glad you like my post.

Yes Elvis' poor health and drug issues would come to hurt the music, but before 1973 it was the exception rather than the rule. Signs of the decline can be traced back to the last week of the 1970 Vegas shows, but until the end of 1972 90 percent of the bad music Elvis made was down to factors other than drugs. The good work after that dwindled, but 1973-75 also had some very good performances and studio cuts that get undervalued because of Elvis' addictions at the time. By 1976-77 things were very bad, drugs were a huge factor by then. Still the best Jungle Room cuts and 12-76 tour shows also shouldn't be dismissed simply because Elvis was going downhill.

I wrote a lot about this in my book and I can only hope that people who read it will have a more realistic picture of the role drugs played or didn't play in his career.

Re: Phil Spector movie on HBO; Could this have been Elvis?

Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:22 am

I just saw the Phil Spector movie and i liked it.

I don't know if Spector really went on these long rants that Pacino did in the film.

I liked Pacino's performance he really did well at coming off as bizarre.

I wouldn't be surprised if he won an emmy for it.

Re: Phil Spector movie on HBO; Could this have been Elvis?

Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:51 pm

Which is why I wrote a book.

Re: Phil Spector movie on HBO; Could this have been Elvis?

Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:52 pm

rjm wrote:Hey, I'm no saint, I am NOT "bashing Elvis." But the truth is the truth.

He was ill. Addiction is an illness. A lot of people like to make believe it doesn't exist. Or think it reflects on "bad character."

rjm (oh, and he "defended himself" on stage in 1974)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2

I think the label "illness" on addiction sometimes can be problematic. It implies that an addictive person is just a victim who has no will over his or hers addiction. That's not entirely true. In the end you always have a choice, no matter how extremly difficult that choice might be. Does this mean that the addictive person is a bad character? No. Does it come from a personal flaw? Sometimes, but we all have a number of personal flaws. I think an addicton partly stems from one's personality and partly from that persons environment/circumstances. Another problem with the illness label is how addicted do you need to be to get diagnosed? Was Elvis ill by addiction in 1977, but not in 1973? Addiction is not a either/or, but differences in degree.

By the way, I agree to your other points in this thread.